291 réponses à ce sujet

[swirlwind]

Principia76 wrote...

Zevran doesn't count, he uses sex as a weapon or as entertainment and is not gay. I want a real romance between two well defined well rounded gay male characters, not bisexual assassins or space lesbians.

Having a strictly gay character is probably too much to ask in terms of the resources that are allocated for romances in general. On the topic of Zevran, I disagree about him not being well rounded. Yes, to him sex is about pleasure instead of commitment, and for me, that was actually a good thing. However, he does make a commitment to the person he falls in love with, and his character has a clearly defined development arc. 

swirlwind wrote...

Who decided that was written in stone? Why couldn't they just have made him romanceable regardless of gender? Would it really cost that much to redub a couple of lines?

The person who wrote him. I assume the decision was made out of love for the character, but since I didn't write him and I'm not a mind reader, I couldn't say for sure. Have you ever done any writing yourself? In my experience characters become dear to the one who writes them, and it's important to stay true to their character. Alistair was written as a heterosexual character, and that's how he was in the game.

[Korva]

Valmy wrote...

I thought they did this well in DA.  I hope they continue the friendship paths.  It should not be as difficult to avoid having a romance than it presently is.

Well, on that last bit, Origins was definitely a big step in the right direction and deserves two thumbs up. In KotOR for example, I remember being so pissed off when, altough I never flirted with Carth and was simply treating him like a friendly comrade-in-arms, all of a sudden and out of the blue he went all "I LOVE YOU! LET ME PROTECT YOU!" on me. It wasn't even so much the presumptousness of the game saying hey, you're female, he's male, of course you want to "romance" him that galled me the most, or the fact that it you had to be a jerk to tell him no. It was the sheer inanity and insult of making a plain soldier think he must "protect" a Force Sensitive Jedi prodigy simpy because he has balls which make him the strong one, and she has bewbies which make her the weak one.

Alistair in Origins? None of that nonsense. He was like my little brother from start to finish. The game never made him presume anything, nor did I have to treat him like crap to be able to court Leliana. A huge improvement. Likewise with Zevran, who is all words but doesn't cross any lines unless you tell him to.

I disagree on DA handling friendships that well, though. The gift system is just too abuse-prone and gaining their favor is too easy. It should take time, and more than words and some random loot you stole from a little old lady's cupboard.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

Halfno wrote...

I hope there are not same sex romances; it creeps me out and I find it immoral.

I can respect that that's your opinion. Doesn't mean Bioware shouldn't have included them in the past, or shouldn't include them in the future.

I very much support this. Leliana should serve as inspiration, Bioware.

Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 09 juillet 2010 - 09:46 .

[Principia76]

swirlwind wrote...
Having a strictly gay character is probably too much to ask in terms of the resources that are allocated for romances in general. On the topic of Zevran, I disagree about him not being well rounded. Yes, to him sex is about pleasure instead of commitment, and for me, that was actually a good thing. However, he does make a commitment to the person he falls in love with, and his character has a clearly defined development arc.

And that would be fine if he was only romanceable via male PCs but since he's not it just turned me right off the whole character.

swirlwind wrote...
The person who wrote him. I assume the decision was made out of love for the character, but since I didn't write him and I'm not a mind reader, I couldn't say for sure. Have you ever done any writing yourself? In my experience characters become dear to the one who writes them, and it's important to stay true to their character. Alistair was written as a heterosexual character, and that's how he was in the game.

What actions does he perform that are stereotypically heterosexual and would be out of place if done by a gay man? Literally the only changes that would need to be made are a few lines here and there, homophobia is the only explanation.

[Korva]

Semi on-topic: while I'd very much like to see a strictly homosexual character instead of another bi one, I'd ALSO very much like to see female companions who are "not available" no matter what gender the protagonist is. Children like Mission and grannies like Wynne (whom I absolutely adore -- finally a "wise older mentor" who is female!) don't count.

[MassFrost]

Ildaron wrote...

I know this is dumb taking a stand on an internet forums, but when did it become a bad thing to draw a line in the sand. Far to often people attempt to demonize the church stand. They call it hate, yet at the same time freely insult, hate, bash, put down and insult, all while pretending to be morally superior.

We took the church out of America starting with prayers in schools the Ten Commandments from government building, and erased God from America. The result is the society we see now, high crime, murder, adultery, everything is acceptable as long as it is not from the church. In one city however I can point out a difference in the trend where they go out into the communities preaching Jesus. Where it is mentioned that God loves his children (and that is all of us) were it is not Religion traditions, but fellowship. The results as reported by U.S Census for the 13 years this has been done in the city of Tampa, Florida is a reduction in crime (over 50%) which includes property crime, murder, assault, and drugs.

Going back into the topic. I do not want a game with same sex options and no I will not run into a cave or church and say so. I will proclaim it boldly out in the open. I do not wish it because my God has told me in his Bible it is not acceptable and regardless of the century, my God the only living God does not change his word.

I'm not one of the same-sex romance supporters (frankly, I could care less either way), but your post is just asinine. For starters, your whole argument regarding religious people being less likely to commit crime is absolutely laughable, especially when you consider that more than 70% of the people incarcerated in America's prisons identify themselves as Christian.

Second, your entire argument about God's disagreement with homosexuality is flawed, particularly because being homosexual isn't a choice. I mean, do you wake up in the morning and make a choice to NOT be homosexual? I know I don't, I'm a happily married man. I don't need to question why I'm heterosexual, it's just how I am.. Same goes for homosexual people, it all has to do with brain chemistry.

Finally, I'd recommend that you not let an ancient text written by men who were afraid of their own shadows dictate how you view real world issues. If you'd like to live in a world that resembles the 6th Century, I'd recommend moving to a rural part of the Middle East. If not, at least develop some manner of common sense like the rest of us, please.

Modifié par MassFrost, 09 juillet 2010 - 09:48 .

[AntiChri5]

Principia76 wrote...
 homophobia is the only explanation.

Alistair is straight, simple as that.

Some people are straight. Some people are bisexual. Some people are gay.

Its that bloody simple. When a character is not gay it isnt because there is a vast homophobic conspiracy, it is because that is what the writers decided on for that character.

Grow up and stop insulting everybody who dares to have an opinion different to yours.

Modifié par Seagloom, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:55 .

[Collider]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Maybe because Alistair is straight and not bisexual?

Well thats up to the writers and I think the point attempted to be made is why couldn't they choose the 'normal' guy as a bi romance option instead of indulging stereotypes and going with Zevran. Anyway, I'm rather drunk and don't know if I'm explaining what I mean very well.

Whether Zevran fits the stereotype is up to you. Personally, when I think of a gay or bisexual person, I do not think of an assassin of questionable morals.

The gay people I have known have been very nice. For whatever reason, they tend to be more polite and considerate. That's *my* stereotype of gay people.

[Rocambole4]

Kataria wrote...

Not to open a can of rabid worms, but can any of the developers give a "Yeah" or "Nay"?  It's probably a bit of a deal-maker/breaker for some of us, especially after Mass Effect 2!

Er... didn't you play DaO or ME2?

BOTH have gay sex. Why would they remove it altogether?

Unless you're asking if, like in ME2, for some reason the protagonist can't have MALE gay sex... well, I'm for it, really. One of my many paythrought DaO had a hedonist mage as protagonist, and he saw not reason not to enjoy himself with the young rogue.

But if, for some good, lore-related reason, it's not possible, I'm ok wiht it too. Truth be told, after the first ME broke that barrier, I really don't care a lot if my chars can make sex with NPCs or not. It's kinda... you know, mature, but in the way pre-teens use the word.

[Eternal Dust]

Rocambole4 wrote...

Er... didn't you play DaO or ME2?

BOTH have gay sex. Why would they remove it altogether?

Er...where exactly was the gay sex in ME2?

[Collider]

Morinth.

[AntiChri5]

Kelly.

[Eternal Dust]

Collider wrote...

Morinth.

Oh you mean the mind melding thing where you eventually died? Yeah...that was hawt

Edit: I meant to say gay as in M/M.

Modifié par octoberfire, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:13 .

[Principia76]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kelly.

Not even a lame headbump sequence, also she's romanceable with a male PC so it doesn't count anyway.

[Valmy]

octoberfire wrote...
Er...where exactly was the gay sex in ME2?

Kelly I guess....none of the main romances though.

ME2 was a failure on this front and....well...I will leave it at that actually.  They at least needed to make it easy to avoid the romances in ME2.  Jack and Jacob were impossible to avoid romancing it seemed.

Modifié par Valmy, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:16 .

[AntiChri5]

Bisexuals arent good enough?

[Principia76]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Well considering that they're something that only exists in fantasy I suppose it's okay in DA, but ME is supposed to be this universe just in the future.

[AntiChri5]

Principia76 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Well considering that they're something that only exists in fantasy I suppose it's okay in DA, but ME is supposed to be this universe just in the future.

Are you seriously saying that everyone has to be either straight or gay? And Mass Effect is Science Fiction.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:21 .

[Eternal Dust]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Not when they're fan service with no real personal depth and provide lap dances for the male gaze.

[Valmy]

Korva wrote...

Semi on-topic: while I'd very much like to see a strictly homosexual character instead of another bi one, I'd ALSO very much like to see female companions who are "not available" no matter what gender the protagonist is. Children like Mission and grannies like Wynne (whom I absolutely adore -- finally a "wise older mentor" who is female!) don't count.

Yes this.  All females in their prime are not single or interested in hooking up.

Believe me I know

Oh and Kreia was great also even if she was evil.

Modifié par Valmy, 09 juillet 2010 - 10:21 .

[AntiChri5]

octoberfire wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Not when they're fan service with no real personal depth and provide lap dances for the male gaze.

Well put. Kelly is eye candy, nothing more.

But shes the best we have got.

[Valmy]

octoberfire wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Not when they're fan service with no real personal depth and provide lap dances for the male gaze.

Depends on the standard here.  In this case though, Kelly might have been available for sex but she was not a romance strictly.

But if you want same sex romance that does not necessarily mean they are going to be great or something you will love.  Just look at how much people complain about the M/F romances.  But they still should "count" so long as we are being fair.

Out of curiosity what is the difference between the 'male' gaze and the 'lesbian' gaze?  Because the hetero female gaze seems just as pervy.

[Principia76]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Principia76 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Bisexuals arent good enough?

Well considering that they're something that only exists in fantasy I suppose it's okay in DA, but ME is supposed to be this universe just in the future.

Are you seriously saying that everyone has to be either straight or gay? And Mass Effect is Science Fiction.

Yes I am, and Sci-Fi is not Fantasy, no matter how much SciFiSyFy wants it to be.

[Valmy]

Principia76 wrote...
Well considering that they're something that only exists in fantasy I suppose it's okay in DA, but ME is supposed to be this universe just in the future.

Heh.  In Pincipia76's universe it is LGT.

[Principia76]

Valmy wrote...

Principia76 wrote...
Well considering that they're something that only exists in fantasy I suppose it's okay in DA, but ME is supposed to be this universe just in the future.

Heh.  In Pincipia76's universe it is LGT.

There are two types of "bisexuals" closeted gays/lesbians and sorority girls looking for attention, the world would be a better place if these people would just be honest with themselves and everyone else.