291 réponses à ce sujet

[Foune]

Ildaron wrote...

Daodan wrote...

Halfno wrote...

I hope there are not same sex romances; it creeps me out and I find it immoral.

Hahaha oh my, go back to your cave. Or your church.

I know this is dumb taking a stand on an internet forums, but when did it become a bad thing to draw a line in the sand. Far to often people attempt to demonize the church stand. They call it hate, yet at the same time freely insult, hate, bash, put down and insult, all while pretending to be morally superior.

We took the church out of America starting with prayers in schools the Ten Commandments from government building, and erased God from America. The result is the society we see now, high crime, murder, adultery, everything is acceptable as long as it is not from the church. In one city however I can point out a difference in the trend where they go out into the communities preaching Jesus. Where it is mentioned that God loves his children (and that is all of us) were it is not Religion traditions, but fellowship. The results as reported by U.S Census for the 13 years this has been done in the city of Tampa, Florida is a reduction in crime (over 50%) which includes property crime, murder, assault, and drugs.

Going back into the topic. I do not want a game with same sex options and no I will not run into a cave or church and say so. I will proclaim it boldly out in the open. I do not wish it because my God has told me in his Bible it is not acceptable and regardless of the century, my God the only living God does not change his word.

I do really hope you're trolling, I really do.

[Collider]

I am not gay, but I want there to be M/M and F/F options for those men and women who are. I may even try the M/M one if it's not another assassin.

[ICevoL]

Principia76 wrote...

EA wants to appeal to the same people who buy their sports games so same sex romance, unless both chicks are hot, is gone.

vvv Did you play ME2? That's all the source you need. vvv

No, I didn't.  I have no interest in it from a gameplay standpoint.  I stick to Fantasy RPGs mostly.  I like SciFi settings/tropes for movies, but not games

[sodomitebastard]

Collider wrote...

I am not gay, but I want there to be M/M and F/F options for those men and women who are. I may even try the M/M one if it's not another assassin.

And it takes a real man to admit that 

Anyways, I really hope there will be same sex romances, It really would be a setback if they let that go. Though, as said before, Hawke beeing a "predefined" character, it might not happend. Though one should probably not speculate too much this early...

[swirlwind]

Ildaron wrote...

Going back into the topic. I do not want a game with same sex options and no I will not run into a cave or church and say so. I will proclaim it boldly out in the open. I do not wish it because my God has told me in his Bible it is not acceptable and regardless of the century, my God the only living God does not change his word.

Please leave the religious commentary at the door. You are entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us, but starting a religious flamewar won't help anyone. 

I for one am fully in support of same sex romances, both between the PC and the companions and between the people of Thedas at large. DA:O did a wonderful job with making the LGBT people a part of the setting, and I would like BioWare to continue in this direction. No one has to play the romances unless they want to, but their inclusion means a great deal to people like me.

[PSUHammer]

Paromlin wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Interesting that so many people seem to care about this on the forum...seems like this only caters to a small portion of the game playing population...

These two parts of your sentence are in a logical conflict.

No they are not.  Read it again.

Ok, let me clear it up for you. There are many people who care about this on the forum becazse it doesn't cater to a small portion of the game playing population.
Just if you're wondering.. there are many gays who played DAO and never were on the bioboards and never will.

LOL...ok.  So, let's do some math since you are assuming I am stupid.

• Total game sales for DAO is what?  I would say at least 5 miliion across all three platforms?  If not more?  Let's say it is 5 million for arguments sake
• What is the demographics for homosexual (including bisexual) people to the overall population in the US (pairing down to one country for discussion sake)?  Most numbers I see in my brief search are high end 5% low end 3% of the total population claim to be actively gay.  http://en.wikipedia....ual_orientation
• So, what's 3% to 5% of 5,000,000 people?   150,000 to 250,000 people?
• So, would you consider a design choice that only potentially caters to 3% to 5% of your paying customers, yet alienates your majority audience, a high priority?

I don't know what the numbers are for Bioware, but I modded on a major developer's website (yearly game of the year candidate) and they have similar sales to Bioware products.  Our forum membership was roughly 2% of total units sold, and only about 20% of that 2% were active in the forums.  Quite a small sampling. 

For the record, I am not homophobic, nor does inclusion of same sex relationships in games offend me.  What I am asking is why are so few on the forums making such a big ruckus over a minor part of the game?  It's silly.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:49 .

[swirlwind]

Hammer6767 wrote...
So, would you consider a design choice that only potentially caters to 3% to 5% of your paying customers, yet alienates your majority audience, a high priority?

Did it alienate customers from playing DA:O? 

Hammer6767 wrote...
For the record, I am not homophobic, nor does inclusion of same sex relationships in games offend me.  What I am asking is why are so few on the forums making such a big ruckus over a minor part of the game?  It's silly.

How is it any sillier than making a fuss about a voiced PC, or the art style, or changes in the combat style, or whatever it is people are currently discussing? It's an important feature for some of us. If it's not important to you, why bother commenting on the thread?

Modifié par swirlwind, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:53 .

[PSUHammer]

swirlwind wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...
For the record, I am not homophobic, nor does inclusion of same sex relationships in games offend me.  What I am asking is why are so few on the forums making such a big ruckus over a minor part of the game?  It's silly.

How is it any sillier than making a fuss about a voiced PC, or the art style, or changes in the combat style, or whatever it is people are currently discussing? It's an important feature for some of us. If it's not important to you, why bother commenting on the thread?

Good point, I find those minor arguments to be silly as well.  But, I digress, carry on your pining!

Regards

P.S.  If someone did not want to have a discussion on these points, then why would they post in an open forum and not just send the developers an email with the suggestion to include it?  Instead the ME and DAO boards get a lot of these types of threads opened.  Just saying...

Modifié par Hammer6767, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:56 .

[Sporothrix]

PsychoYoshi wrote...

As a gay male, a same-sex option would be some nice icing on the cake for me, but unlike some others, I'm not going to get all indignant if it's not included; ME2 was a great game regardless of the romance options, and DA2 has the same potential.

Well, for me it's unimportant how good that game will be, because by cutting same sex romances they will give obvious statement - "money is all we care about, and if we'll get more money by cutting off gays and lesbians, so be it".
Don't forget that we live in time when gay people around the world are still attacked, killed and discriminated by the law, so acting like that is cowardice based on bigotry. I won't support company like that, so if they will do such thing with DA2, i'm done with their games.

[Deviija]

People are really grasping at straws. Bringing up demographics, illusionary fear-mongering based on 'people won't buy your game because it has the gay in it,' population percentages, etc. mean nothing in this discussion whatsoever. DAO was wildly successful as a new IP and as a game, what inclusive LGBT content that it did have in its themes and setting and characters and relationships did nothing to stop the franchise from moving or being very successful.

[Sporothrix]

Hammer6767 wrote...

So, would you consider a design choice that
only potentially caters to 3% to 5% of your paying customers, yet
alienates your majority audience, a high priority?

And you really think only gay people play gay characters? Most male players I know like to play as a female, and guess what, as a lesbian, and many straight women like gays (very popular series about gay men "Queer as folk" was watched almost exclusively by women).

[PSUHammer]

You gals are missing my point. It isn't "fear mongering" (insecure, are we?)! Geesh!



It is a minor design choice that is, frankly, not all that important to the vast majority of people. It just happens to have a very vocal minority.



I am frankly offended by the "fear mongering" crap. That makes absolutely no sense. I am talking about design choices from a practical point of view.

[ICevoL]

Very true, misoretu9 -- I am a straight female, and my favorite DAO character I've created so far is a gay male elf. Having a chance to try out a new identity/gender/orientation is my favorite thing about RPGs and the inclusive nature of DAO is why it's my favorite game in years.

[swirlwind]

Hammer6767 wrote...

I am frankly offended by the "fear mongering" crap. That makes absolutely no sense. I am talking about design choices from a practical point of view.

Well, these same writers were willing to go the extra mile for DA:O, all we're asking is that they continue their excellent work. We're not asking for an additional feature, we're asking for the same level of commitment the writers showed in the previous installation of this fine franchise.

[Principia76]

swirlwind wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

I am frankly offended by the "fear mongering" crap. That makes absolutely no sense. I am talking about design choices from a practical point of view.

Well, these same writers were willing to go the extra mile for DA:O, all we're asking is that they continue their excellent work. We're not asking for an additional feature, we're asking for the same level of commitment the writers showed in the previous installation of this fine franchise.

Didn't Gaider already come out and basically say he hated going the extra mile and just wanted to write a straightforward story without distractions like companion dialogue. 

[swirlwind]

Principia76 wrote...
Didn't Gaider already come out and basically say he hated going the extra mile and just wanted to write a straightforward story without distractions like companion dialogue. 

Not to my knowledge. Link?

[Paromlin]

Hammer6767 wrote...


[*]
[*]What is the demographics for homosexual (including bisexual) people to the overall population in the US (pairing down to one country for discussion sake)?  Most numbers I see in my brief search are high end 5% low end 3% of the total population claim to be actively gay. 

[*]Flied over your post. I'll comment the crucial part.
[*]Why are you referring to the US only?
[*]A lot (a lot) of people won't out themselves because they're afraid to come out of the closet - so this percentage is very biased and is skewed towards the low end.
[*]You're not including bisexauls. After all, bisexuals are part of the GLBT population.
[*]You assumption that people would be rejecting a game because of homosexuality in it is wrong. It would be done only by religious fanatics and that's a minority of video game players.
[*]On the contrary, people are naturally curious so they'd want to play something they would not experience in real life.
[*]I don't think you're stupid. You're just misinformed. We (the GLBT population) are big and strong.

[Jimmy Fury]

Hammer6767 wrote...
statistics and more statistics

Problem with trying to compare overall population statistics to a variable subgroup is that it's practically impossible that the representations within the subgroup are equal to those of the overall population. Just because the percentage of GLB people in the world is small does not mean the percentage of them is automatically small within a smaller population. Take a musical artist for example. If the music appeals a gay population then they're going to make up a higher percentage of the sales than they do the overall population.

12% of the US population is 65 and older, that does not mean 12% of Bioware customers are 65% and older.
Simply put, there are absolutely no statistics available to show what percentage of the Gaming Population is GLBT or SlashAddictFangirl and it's logically flawed to suppose that the population percentages of the whole are the same as of the subgroup.

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 09 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[spottyblanket]

I can't imagine Galinder saying that about companion dialogue as it is a very cruical part to bioware. If you can't have companion dialogue, why have companions?

[PSUHammer]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...
statistics and more statistics

Problem with trying to compare overall population statistics to a variable subgroup is that it's practically impossible that the representations within the subgroup are equal to those of the overall population. Just because the percentage of GLB people in the world is small does not mean the percentage of them is automatically small within a smaller population. Take a musical artist for example. If the music appeals a gay population then they're going to make up a higher percentage of the sales than they do the overall population.

12% of the US population is 65 and older, that does not mean 12% of Bioware customers are 65% and older.
Simply put, there are absolutely no statistics available to show what percentage of the Gaming Population is GLBT or SlashAddictFangirl and it's logically flawed to suppose that the population percentages of the whole are the same as of the subgroup.

Absolutely valid points.  But all sales and business decisions are based on numbers like these.  Statistics is a foundation of every business or marketing  degree.  There has to be some basis for these types of decisions.

BUT, if you look at the redundant threads throughout this Bioware forum, you have to admit there is a very vocal minority that is calling out for the same thing OVER and OVER again.  It is getting ridiculous.  Any fair minded visitor to a forum, gay or straight, has to admit that.

Also, all numbers aside, I think everyone would admit that the gay gaming population is probably pretty close to the overall population demographics.  I think age would see more variance than sexual orientation, you're right.

So, I stand by my point that there is a lot of commotion over a rather minor part of the game, catering to a small portion of the Bioware customer.  Just my opinion....so, I will move along.

Peace.

[Principia76]

[quote]swirlwind wrote...
Not to my knowledge. Link?[/quote]

Here ya go:

http://social.biowar...ex/1761467&lf=8

[quote][quote]Dave Gaider[/quote]
The drawback might be viewed as you being unable to go around in camp and chat with every party member, regardless of whether you spend any time adventuring with them. I don't know that this is necessarily a drawback, however, as I think you *should* only be building friendships with the characters in your active party. That and I think a system that doesn't make the player feel like they have to keep "checking in" with a character regularly to see if they have anything new to say is more natural -- saving their interactions for those times when what they have to say is more significant.

There's going to be some people who are going to miss the "laundry list" of questions, because as far as they're concerned any conversation they can have with a character they like is gravy -- it is, let's face it, MOAR! -- but I've always felt that such dialogues are often exposition-filled by necessity, and personally I think a system where a player feels compelled to sit in camp and drain a character of all their dialogue options (in a lengthy process) just to have a "complete" picture of a character isn't ideal.

I will say that "I like the old conversation system, having long talks with the character let me get an insight into their personality and made me feel really close to them, etc etc." is very understandable. Who doesn't like having long talks with characters you like? It is, however, a lot of writing that is inefficient and, yes, expensive. No, you as fans don't have to worry about how expensive it is. I, however, do, and I do have to think about the sort of behavior a conversation system encourages in players -- even if some players (especially the really hardcore ones) enjoyed the end results despite its flaws (and every system has some).[/quote][/quote]

[Jimmy Fury]

Very true about statistics being used in marketing, never disagreed with that only that nobody can claim for a fact what the population percentage of gamers is.



As was pointed out previously though, the number of gay gamers is irrelivant because there are plenty of heterosexual gamers who had no problem with the inclusion of s/s romance, therefore the vocal minority isn't acting against the wishes of "the vast majority" because the vast majority won't care one way or the other.

[Valmy]

Principia76 wrote...
Didn't Gaider already come out and basically say he hated going the extra mile and just wanted to write a straightforward story without distractions like companion dialogue. 

Gaider loves his characters from what I can tell.  When did he become the whipping boy anyway?  He always struck me as a really good guy.

[Valmy]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Very true about statistics being used in marketing, never disagreed with that only that nobody can claim for a fact what the population percentage of gamers is.

As was pointed out previously though, the number of gay gamers is irrelivant because there are plenty of heterosexual gamers who had no problem with the inclusion of s/s romance, therefore the vocal minority isn't acting against the wishes of "the vast majority" because the vast majority won't care one way or the other.

This.

Besides it is not like only gay people every play the gay romances.