436 réponses à ce sujet

[Harorrd]

The major problem with DAO was that i accepted all companions to my group without any sort of punishment, in fact they even wants you to add them.

[Kaorunandrak]

sage_viper wrote...

Just because we aren't a Grey Warden doesn't mean we can't learn any more about the Fade, or Ferelden (which I'm pretty sure we know plenty about, especially if you've red the novels), or Orlais, or really any other nation on Thedas.. Sure, some things about the Blight that we don't know, and in fact quite a few other things, but that just adds to the mystery of Thedas, doesn't it? We can't know EVERYTHING, and besides, where would we go, what would we do if we continued the story of our Warden? I honestly have no idea. The Blight has ended, the Architect either dead or satisfied to continue his research... It makes sense to me to start a new character.

And though I hold that belief, I'm still a little worried about the direction they're taking it. I just can't think of many pure RPGs (if any at all) that put you in the shoes of a set character. Not only that, but they are also setting a predefined destiny that we already know: We are to become the Hero of Kirkwall. At least in Origins, the ending of the game was shrouded in mystery. What was the Arch Demon? How do we kill it? Will we even succeed?

Becoming the Hero of Kirkwall just seems a tad more constrained to variety, to me. I mean, chances are you aren't going to become a Hero by... stealing something, or learning a neat spell. It's going to be by killing someone or something that threatens Kirkwall or the Free Marches itself. Sure, we don't know what, but I'm willing to bet that we learn this threat fairly early in the game...

Just speculation, but I think it's fair. Whether or not I buy the game is still up in the air, because I really need to know more.

Pure RPG that puts you into a set character? hmmmm  Kotor, Kotor 2, Planescape:Torment, and Dungeon Seige. right off the top of my head hell technically I would even consider Neverwinter Nights 2 on that list. All of these games are pureist rpgs But you are locked into several things due to the character and all the "customization" they allow and freedom they provide you will have in DA2. the only one that has slightly more option and only at character creation is NWN2.

Each one of those rpgs had a set starting and set ending point for your character how you got from point A to point B was pretty much set as well how your character reacted was again pretty much set either good/evil/in the middle. And the nameless one was voiced as well yet according to a majority of players on this very network it is one of the greatest if not the greatest rpg in existance.

However lets break it down even further KoToR: lets see here tottally more rpg then DA2? based off the info we have NO.
In KoToR how many races can you play 3?
OH WAIT THATS RIGHT 1 ONLY HUMAN!!!!
And how many classes can you play as from the start 7?
OH WAIT THATS RIGHT 3 SOLDIER, SCOUNDREL, AND SCOUT!!!
And how many different back grounds can you have 6?
OH WAIT THATS RIGHT 1 YOU CAN ONLY BE A "SOLDIER" OF THE REPUBLIC WHO LATER BECOMES A JEDI AND FINDS OUT HE WAS DARTH REVAN.

And KoToR is better how?

You play a character with only one race that you can only change their sex, skin color, and facial features(DA2 anyone?) You can only choose for a small pool of initial classes.(DA2 anyone?) You then set out in the game with a pretetermined background that nomatter what choices you make come to a show down with malak on the star forge and the reclaiming of your true background as Revan. (Very similiar to DA2 here guys except instead of reclaiming a background you claim a predetermined title as the Champion of Kirkwall.

Now during your adventures to find the starforge you have to follow a set path to find it you can choose which planets you visit but after a certain number of planets your ship is attacked and dantooine is bombed.You then finish your plannets and then go to the rakataan planet and then finally the star forge. Very freedom based here huh?(So far in DA2 from what we know you follow a path set over 10 years that only has a set start and set ending everything in between and how you get from point A to point B is your choice.)

As you play the game you interact with several different people, you can either be a paragon of the jedi order or fall to the dark side during your adventure all of which is done through a chat system of relatively flat, bland ,black or white text answers all of which can be made moot by a single choice when facing bastila.(DA2 voiced pc boo hoo rather then a box of text uses a wheel of text. THE HORROR!!! From what devs have said through you can be a dick or a paragon allowing you to interact with people in much the same way. As far as being a dick and then completely redeeming your self in one choice we dont know that yet.)

Now I could go on but I belive I've made my point with just this, Just because you dont have as much "choice" as you did in DAO in regards to initial character customization doesnt mean that the game can't or could be one of the greatest games we all have ever played. Honestly if you can sit there and claim to love planescape and hail it as a wounderous game then you can't complain about DA2 as you have even less choice in planescape and the character does infact have a voice he uses abundantly through out the game.

Bottom line is this wait until you get more information on the game such as actual game play footage and mechanics break down before you start nerd raging across a forum like this, thats not what they are for. All your doing is showing disrespect to not only Bioware but also anyone else who come onto these forums who actually likes the games and the developer and are constantly being insulted due to many peoples "If you don't think or play games like me then your not a true RPGER and need to be shot and raped" attitude.

While I'm not saying you can't have concerns about the game I am saying that you really need more information then is currently available to go off on wild tangents so extreme that they borderline or flat out cross over to the realm of "I want a pony or I'll go on a homicidal rampage" spoiled bratness.

BTW sage viper this was mostly a general post only the begining really had anything to do with your post in particular.

Modifié par Kaorunandrak, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:33 .

[sage_viper]

I admit I didn't read that entire wall of text, but aside from that, I didn't really like KOTOR

[Talof]

The instant I read that your character is predetermined to be human with no option for a choice I lost all interest.  Take away race choice and you've pretty killed the game.  Why?  Simply because you can think of this as a precedent to further rpg elements being taken away.  Its all baby steps toward removing even more of those elements that made the first one great.  We already have the mass effect series for mostly action and slightly rpg  we don't need a medeival fantasy version of it.  If anything I agree with all the people saying this is a step backward not forward.  Bioware stated that they wanted to add new features but still wanted to keep enough for the original fans who liked the first one... well bioware you pretty much screwed that up right at the starting line.  Good luck trying to keep fans of the series interested if you keep these kinds of choices up.

[AlanC9]

Talof wrote...
Take away race choice and you've pretty killed the game.  Why?  Simply because you can think of this as a precedent to further rpg elements being taken away.  Its all baby steps toward removing even more of those elements that made the first one great. 

So you're forming your opinion on the basis of largely unfounded speculation...  and you're aware that 's what you're doing. 

[Govanator]

What I do not understand is going with the ME format when DAO was the more successful.  I liked that DAO was different, what appealed to me about DAO was it's foray back into the classic RPG like the Baldur's Gate series which will forever hold a special place in my heart. Ignoring Awakenings, which I have felt to be rather lifeless and lacking
the level of engagement which Origins allowed, Dragon Age thus far as been a joy to play and even re-play. DAO was not simply a game, it was an experience, a key element which I feel will sadly be lost in the sequel. I suppose my concern is that with DA2, the game will have lost its soul, only to be replaced with something dull and lifeless that
attempts to be an approximation of a timeless game in a stilted and contrived format.   I hope that in time we shall see something of the old DA systems, but I doubt it.

Modifié par Govanator, 12 juillet 2010 - 08:15 .

[Talof]

AlanC9 wrote...

Talof wrote...
Take away race choice and you've pretty killed the game.  Why?  Simply because you can think of this as a precedent to further rpg elements being taken away.  Its all baby steps toward removing even more of those elements that made the first one great. 

So you're forming your opinion on the basis of largely unfounded speculation...  and you're aware that 's what you're doing. 

Not entirely unfounded.  If history has shown us anything its definately shown us that one small change leads to another small change until before you know it all those small changes has made the biggest difference in the outcome.  So its a fact that taking away race choice will lead to other similar changes.  Really the only unfounded speculation is whether this will be a bad thing or a good thing, in which I am speculating "bad" because it makes more sense.  The reason it makes sense is that trying to market a franchise that worked so well how it was made orignally, like another completely different franchise (in this case making DA like ME) is a total blunder.  Yeah change is a good thing but not if you change what made the game its own unique experience.

ps.  speculation for the most part is unfounded hence why its speculation.  Its a guess expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence.

[elikal71]

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I
KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you
ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish
to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means
endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible
simplification.

The sheer number of creative small studios who
had been bought by EA and over a brief time crushed, is long and sad.
Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin and many others.  The story was always the
same. A small studio, famous and respected for making very creative
games, not for a huge Wal-Mart mass market, but for demanding gamers,
then bought by EA, streamlined for mass market taste and ultimately made
superfluous.


Look at you, Bioware. Look how you changed.
Some time ago, when I heard the news Bioware was sold to EA, I was very
bitter and felt it was the end of an era. Then, for a while, I thought
there was hope, I thought EA had learned. Apparently my fears back then
were fully justified.


I am a Game Master for P&P games
for 27 years now. And let me tell you one thing, Bioware. A ROLEPLAYING
game, means that the people involved identify with a role. They want a
vast variety of races and classes, they want a huge plethora of skills
and talents to chose from. The more the better. There were days when
games like Wizardry or Might and Magic (the RPG) had 30 classes and 20
races to chose from. And then?

Then came VOICE OVER. Then came
streamlined story telling. It weren't huge steps in a single game. But
step by step, little by litte, what made a game a RPG was betrayed and
sacrificed on the altar of so called mass market. Now suddenly you speak
of aiming it for your target audience, Bioware. I tell you what. WE
used to be your target audience. WE roleplayers made you great. And now
that Darth EA is behind you, we no longer count. We are no longer enough
for you. We get the burning ring before us like some tamed animal and
we can jump at your whim. Take it or leave it. I am sorry, what you are
doing is wrong.

It is wrong because it leaves us behind who were
your fans for so many years. It is wrong because we made you what you
are and now suddenly we are neglectable and other people seem to be your
new target audience. It is wrong, because THAT target audience may be
more. But they are also fickle. They follow always the newst
shiny. Today it's you, tommorw who knows. Ask SOE about their NGE and
what they learned about leaving it's core audience behind. And this IS
some sort of NGE. Every single approach to ignore the complaints of the
core audience has, in the long run, proven to be a failure. Look at the
"Last Airbender" movie. It was the same argument: they thought to bring
something to a supposed broarder audience, and ignored to critique of
their core fanbase they paid the price for it.


Individuality
and choice from the beginning on, is one of the core features of a RPG.
And what we read sounds like an interactive movie. And already DA:O and
ME2 had gone in the wrong direction. Many old school roleplayers had
complained about WAY too many and way too long cinenatic scenes and
cinematic conversations. Thats not what makes a Roleplaying Game! And
in ME2 we had seen the choices even further limited, and essentially ME2
was mostly an interactive movie with shooter elements. It already was
no RPG. Now in Sci-Fi people may be more forgiving, especially when it
is a new unknown universe. But in fantasy, people EXPECT Elves, Dwarfs
and whatnot. They expect many choices and many egos they can play. They
don't expect an entirely premade character.



As nice as
Voiceover is, it also means the character is not me anymore. What did
the Avatar of Britannia, one of the most iconic heroes of gaming
say? Name, Job, Bye. He never said anything, because he WAS us. He was
the player. And nothing you can voiceover can be so personal as what you
imagine in your mind. What you set a characters name and voice, his
behavior and backstory, its no longer me. It's some stranger I follow
his doings over the shoulder, but I am no longer playing myself, and
THEN all those tough moral choices you add to your games mean null.

Bioware,
you are losing the path. I know you listen to the EA stockholders who
want profit. They want to sell millions of games, and they care less
about the small RPG fan community who made you great. I can't even say
it will be a financial failure if you follow this path. Heck, many
generic games sell in many millions. But for us, who love complex games,
who love to chose, who love to ROLEPLAY and not follow some premade
characters preset narrative story, for us it is a betrayal. Do it if you
think stocks are everything. But don't call it a roleplaying game and
know that you are leaving us behind. You are walking a path I as a
Roleplayer can not follow you.

[SheilaD67]

Now, I'll admit, unless I hear otherwise from some of my gaming female friends, I most likely will buy DA:2. I love the first, have a love/hate relationship with Awakenings, and love Bioware in general. However, I must admit to being greatly disappointed that there are no roleplaying options for a female player. Now, now...I have played with male characters before - in NWN and have tried a couple of times in DA:O. I'm a good roleplayer, but sometimes it's tough and I always have to have a female PC game to keep me entertained while I try and get through the male PC. Why did they decide to have only a male PC? Because of the VO? I'd've thought that could be rectified by having 2 VOs - male and female. Not that I'm any kind of technilogical genius or anything, but I would think this was possible.



Anyway, that, so far, is my main quip about the new game. Seems, as usual, many female RP gamers are being overlooked, and I'm rather disappointed with Bioware about that as they normally at least have an option in many of their other RP games for the female protaganist (NWN, NWN2, Baldurs Gate I&II are great examples).



Ah, well...I'll just continue to monitor the hype, hope for truth, and see what's comes out.

[geekeffect]

Hello all. I’ve posted these ideas as a comment on a previous thread but since it got locked-down, I’ll introduce them here as a contribution the DA2 debate. Here goes…



Well, I'll start off introducing myself as an X360 gamer, meaning I'm a "console kitten". I've discovered DAO coming from the Mass Effect side of the barricade. I'm a big fan of ME1, very much enjoyed ME2, and then decided to journey into Dragon Age. I don’t pretend to be an RPG ninja, although I’m getting better at it everyday, but the bottom line is I find DAO absolutely fascinating and in many ways far superior to the Mass Effect franchise. So there…

Having said that I will say that I feel Dragon Age can be improved in many ways, and it seems like BioWare is addressing some of those issues. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but I’ll state my points…

Origins vs Set character

Definitely one of the most controversial aspects of DA2. The freedom provided by the Origins stories is one of the most well achieved aspects of the original game. There may be a common main storyline but the perspective of it truly changes depending on whether you are a human noble, a dalish elf or a dwarf (although I haven’t still played one myself). The beginning and the closure of the story is truly unique, but it’s more than that. It’s the perception of your characters relationship to the outside world that changes, and with that each playthrough becomes a special experience as well.

How DA2 will address the Hawke character will be determinant to its replay value. The early options in background selection must have a much larger impact than, say, the ones you do in Mass Effect – as an example, choosing if Shepard is a Spacer, Earthborn or a Colonist, really doesn’t change anything regarding who Shepard really is, apart from minor details in ME1. DA2 should have a much wider scope in terms of the main character’s background and class choice.

Graphics and environment

This is probably where there is greater room for improvement. Although DAO looks to be better in the PC version, the graphics are nothing outstanding. The environments also feel too enclosed and there are some template areas that are a complete fail – the Denerim alleys, anyone?...

No one expects DA2 to become a sandbox game. In fact, BioWare games being more narrative driven, the sandbox formula probably wouldn’t work at all. But the environments can have a better feel and a greater sense of freedom, especially in outside areas.

Dialogue wheel

I don’t see why everyone is complaining on this one. As long as BioWare doesn’t simplify this into a black and white moral system – as the paragon / renegade system in ME – there is no reason not to introduce the dialogue wheel in Dragon Age. In fact, I will say that the dialogue wheel is one of the greatest inventions BioWare ever made, it’s one of those simple but referential points in the history of videogames, so if used correctly, it could be put to a very effective use in most of BW story-driven games in the future.

Voiced vs text-based dialogues

I will say that a voiced (male and female) character is more interesting, in the sense that you can get a better feel of involvement of the main character with the surroundings. Again, the main issue here has to do with the fear that a voiced character will limit the scope of personalities and backgrounds, and reduce your character into a Shepard-like character. Which would be contrary to the essence of Dragon Age as an open world where the player is free to create its own character and develop its personality within a wide range of options and choices.

Gameplay – Combat vs Tactics

Now, this, to me, is the most important issue regarding the success or failure of Dragon Age 2, when compared to DAO. The info available emphasizes the idea of dynamic combat, meaning you will be doing the fighting.

This may be a more popular approach, but it may jeopardize the tactical essence of DAO as an RPG. Why? Because DAO is effectively centred in tactical combat. You, as the player, are a bit of a combat manager, and your abilities in the battlefield are directly related to your choices regarding character evolution. If DA2 becomes more centred in fighting, how will your progression and character choices influence what you can or can’t do in combat. Nobody wants a Fable 3 style of combat. So how BioWare will balance the combat with the tactics is really what remains to be seen. I believe this issue is what raises the greatest doubts in the DAO community, and I’m very curious to get more information on this.

We will probably have to wait a bit to know the answers, though… But if we are BioWare fans, we at least owe it to them to wait and see what they come up with, before turning our backs on DA2 entirely. Don’t you agree?

[demonology89]

Talof wrote...

The instant I read that your character is predetermined to be human with no option for a choice I lost all interest.  Take away race choice and you've pretty killed the game.  Why?  Simply because you can think of this as a precedent to further rpg elements being taken away.  Its all baby steps toward removing even more of those elements that made the first one great.  We already have the mass effect series for mostly action and slightly rpg  we don't need a medeival fantasy version of it.  If anything I agree with all the people saying this is a step backward not forward.  Bioware stated that they wanted to add new features but still wanted to keep enough for the original fans who liked the first one... well bioware you pretty much screwed that up right at the starting line.  Good luck trying to keep fans of the series interested if you keep these kinds of choices up.

Yea, I was surprised when they announced you're playing as a preset character. I thought when DA2 came along, there would be more races to choose from. Now you can't even play as a dwarf or elf.


I guess BioWare has a strict story to tell this time around as to why they have limited character creation. Fine, I'm all for an engrossing story; I have happily given up hours of my life on games with amazing stories. I just wish they didn't have to scrap character creation for a good story.

[SheilaD67]

Eva Galana wrote...

Now, I'll admit, unless I hear otherwise from some of my gaming female friends, I most likely will buy DA:2. I love the first, have a love/hate relationship with Awakenings, and love Bioware in general. However, I must admit to being greatly disappointed that there are no roleplaying options for a female player. Now, now...I have played with male characters before - in NWN and have tried a couple of times in DA:O. I'm a good roleplayer, but sometimes it's tough and I always have to have a female PC game to keep me entertained while I try and get through the male PC. Why did they decide to have only a male PC? Because of the VO? I'd've thought that could be rectified by having 2 VOs - male and female. Not that I'm any kind of technilogical genius or anything, but I would think this was possible.

Anyway, that, so far, is my main quip about the new game. Seems, as usual, many female RP gamers are being overlooked, and I'm rather disappointed with Bioware about that as they normally at least have an option in many of their other RP games for the female protaganist (NWN, NWN2, Baldurs Gate I&II are great examples).

Ah, well...I'll just continue to monitor the hype, hope for truth, and see what's comes out.

Okay, a very helpful community member let me know that there is also a female Hawke, so I'm feeling better about that.  That was my main concern - oh, sure, I'd love to choose race, but oh well!

"2. Hawke is human.
Yes, that means that you won't be able to select Hawke's race. However, just because that one aspect of Hawke's backstory is set doesn't mean BioWare is eliminating character creation. You can still choose your class and customize your appearance. When we visited BioWare's studio, we only saw (and heard) the male Hawke in action, but the team promises that players can select either gender for the character. "

[Mecha Tengu]

whats the point



Bioware doesn't listen to you nerds, they listen to the biggest community offering the most potential profit.



You can't honestly expect a company to listen to each and every one of it's customers and appeal to their own individual tastes. you can't blame them for picking the easy path out, after all its just a business.



If you want your own adventure that you would enjoy, just go make your own video games,but if you are lazy like me, just use toolset and a couple voice actors to make your own fantasy.

[Kaorunandrak]

Eva Galana wrote...

Now, I'll admit, unless I hear otherwise from some of my gaming female friends, I most likely will buy DA:2. I love the first, have a love/hate relationship with Awakenings, and love Bioware in general. However, I must admit to being greatly disappointed that there are no roleplaying options for a female player. Now, now...I have played with male characters before - in NWN and have tried a couple of times in DA:O. I'm a good roleplayer, but sometimes it's tough and I always have to have a female PC game to keep me entertained while I try and get through the male PC. Why did they decide to have only a male PC? Because of the VO? I'd've thought that could be rectified by having 2 VOs - male and female. Not that I'm any kind of technilogical genius or anything, but I would think this was possible.

Anyway, that, so far, is my main quip about the new game. Seems, as usual, many female RP gamers are being overlooked, and I'm rather disappointed with Bioware about that as they normally at least have an option in many of their other RP games for the female protaganist (NWN, NWN2, Baldurs Gate I&II are great examples).

Ah, well...I'll just continue to monitor the hype, hope for truth, and see what's comes out.

Hawke CAN BE a female. This is FACT.

Just saw your other post so ignore this one >;p

As to Viper like I said it was more of a general post that pointed out one that there are several traditional rpgs out there that put you in a predetermined arc and character and also I compared other games that peope ON SEVERAL occasions have compared to not only DA2 but also DAO as better games that put bioware and the DA franchise to shame (Planescape Torment ).

And also please don't insult my post it was nothing near to a wall of text. If you do not wish to read a post that counters serveral of the arguements that have been brought up here and across several other topics in this forum then just say so.

I am simply trying to make points that will help people calm down and think logicly about the SCRAPS of information we have rather then explode prematurely about a game we only have vague ideas about. I realy don't want to turn on the television and hear about some school shooting or mass suicide attempts do to people getting pissed off that they have  a PC with a voice in DA2.

Modifié par Kaorunandrak, 12 juillet 2010 - 09:43 .

[Talof]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

whats the point

Bioware doesn't listen to you nerds, they listen to the biggest community offering the most potential profit.

You can't honestly expect a company to listen to each and every one of it's customers and appeal to their own individual tastes. you can't blame them for picking the easy path out, after all its just a business.

If you want your own adventure that you would enjoy, just go make your own video games,but if you are lazy like me, just use toolset and a couple voice actors to make your own fantasy.

Look what happened to the last developer that did that!  Infinity Ward anyone!?  Initially they made tons of money off hype then everyone saw how terrible their game really was and now they aren't even a studio anymore.  It utterly destroyed them.

[Mecha Tengu]

what mw2?



it actually attracted a lot of new customers, but it did ****** off some older fans with the release of retardedly expensive DLC and lack of dedicated servers.



the game overall was quite fun though

[sage_viper]

Guys, come on, we're not talking about how BioWare or EA is an evil company out to make money... None of that, please. And we're not talking about whether or not BioWare is actually reading this. For all we know, they are. They are one of the best is community interaction, for one. But we're not discussing that.



This thread is for concerns ONLY. Sure, info has become stagnant recently, but with that article coming out soon, we'll have more info to either enhance or change our opinions. Please stay on topic.

[Dwarf-Thane]

AmstradHero wrote...

Well, I made this point in another thread, but it was apparently ignored. My concern?

That BioWare does listen to fans, and that it listens through means like this:
http://social.biowar...bw_projects.php
and
http://www.dragonage...top/alltime.php

If you want someone to blame for the supposed direction that DA2 is going (and I'm not at all convinced we have enough information to decide that yet), then blame the players for their decision of the best mods for Dragon Age. Because according to those lists, players don't want quests, character interaction, an interesting story and meaningful choices; players apparently want pretty people, big loot, big breasts and sex.

Don't blame the designers, but instead realise you as a player have to take responsibility for the games that are developed by their popularity and sales. Of course, it's far easier to say some else is at fault rather than admitting you are.

Yes, I know I am coming from a biased position as a modder, but the numbers speak for themselves.

The reason people modded those things was that the base game already had great quests, great story, great dialogue, and racial choices and origin stories.  If you take some of that base away from the game, the "frills" that you mention become less important.  Also, breasts are a lot easier to mod than doing level editing. :innocent:

They are taking away the things that made DA:O a great game...

Modifié par Dwarf-Thane, 12 juillet 2010 - 10:31 .

[joriandrake]

elikal71 wrote...

I know you don't want to hear it, but when Bioware was sold to EA, I
KNEW this was coming. Compare Ultima 7 and Ultima 8. It will tell you
ALL you need to know. It's not that EA is evil. Such would be childish
to assume. EA means mass market of the smallest common thing. EA means
endless copy cat series (FIFA) with minimal change and greatest possible
simplification.

The sheer number of creative small studios who
had been bought by EA and over a brief time crushed, is long and sad.
Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin and many others.  The story was always the
same. A small studio, famous and respected for making very creative
games, not for a huge Wal-Mart mass market, but for demanding gamers,
then bought by EA, streamlined for mass market taste and ultimately made
superfluous.


Look at you, Bioware. Look how you changed.
Some time ago, when I heard the news Bioware was sold to EA, I was very
bitter and felt it was the end of an era. Then, for a while, I thought
there was hope, I thought EA had learned. Apparently my fears back then
were fully justified.


I am a Game Master for P&P games
for 27 years now. And let me tell you one thing, Bioware. A ROLEPLAYING
game, means that the people involved identify with a role. They want a
vast variety of races and classes, they want a huge plethora of skills
and talents to chose from. The more the better. There were days when
games like Wizardry or Might and Magic (the RPG) had 30 classes and 20
races to chose from. And then?

Then came VOICE OVER. Then came
streamlined story telling. It weren't huge steps in a single game. But
step by step, little by litte, what made a game a RPG was betrayed and
sacrificed on the altar of so called mass market. Now suddenly you speak
of aiming it for your target audience, Bioware. I tell you what. WE
used to be your target audience. WE roleplayers made you great. And now
that Darth EA is behind you, we no longer count. We are no longer enough
for you. We get the burning ring before us like some tamed animal and
we can jump at your whim. Take it or leave it. I am sorry, what you are
doing is wrong.

It is wrong because it leaves us behind who were
your fans for so many years. It is wrong because we made you what you
are and now suddenly we are neglectable and other people seem to be your
new target audience. It is wrong, because THAT target audience may be
more. But they are also fickle. They follow always the newst
shiny. Today it's you, tommorw who knows. Ask SOE about their NGE and
what they learned about leaving it's core audience behind. And this IS
some sort of NGE. Every single approach to ignore the complaints of the
core audience has, in the long run, proven to be a failure. Look at the
"Last Airbender" movie. It was the same argument: they thought to bring
something to a supposed broarder audience, and ignored to critique of
their core fanbase they paid the price for it.


Individuality
and choice from the beginning on, is one of the core features of a RPG.
And what we read sounds like an interactive movie. And already DA:O and
ME2 had gone in the wrong direction. Many old school roleplayers had
complained about WAY too many and way too long cinenatic scenes and
cinematic conversations. Thats not what makes a Roleplaying Game! And
in ME2 we had seen the choices even further limited, and essentially ME2
was mostly an interactive movie with shooter elements. It already was
no RPG. Now in Sci-Fi people may be more forgiving, especially when it
is a new unknown universe. But in fantasy, people EXPECT Elves, Dwarfs
and whatnot. They expect many choices and many egos they can play. They
don't expect an entirely premade character.



As nice as
Voiceover is, it also means the character is not me anymore. What did
the Avatar of Britannia, one of the most iconic heroes of gaming
say? Name, Job, Bye. He never said anything, because he WAS us. He was
the player. And nothing you can voiceover can be so personal as what you
imagine in your mind. What you set a characters name and voice, his
behavior and backstory, its no longer me. It's some stranger I follow
his doings over the shoulder, but I am no longer playing myself, and
THEN all those tough moral choices you add to your games mean null.

Bioware,
you are losing the path. I know you listen to the EA stockholders who
want profit. They want to sell millions of games, and they care less
about the small RPG fan community who made you great. I can't even say
it will be a financial failure if you follow this path. Heck, many
generic games sell in many millions. But for us, who love complex games,
who love to chose, who love to ROLEPLAY and not follow some premade
characters preset narrative story, for us it is a betrayal. Do it if you
think stocks are everything. But don't call it a roleplaying game and
know that you are leaving us behind. You are walking a path I as a
Roleplayer can not follow you.

wasn't this huge wall of text in another thread already?

[MonkeyChief117]

Every detail i have read scares me. I love Mass Effect, but that doesn't mean i want every BW game to be just like it!







You can't choose a race or origin story? That was a brilliant concept and allowed MASSIVE replayability of the original game.







Fully voice acted? I don't really care - i can read so having written dialogue (and a huge number of options) was fine for me.







For DA2, all i wanted was some shinier graphics, less bugs and a more complex and interesting main plot. What i didn't want them to do was remove most of the features that makes the game "Dragon Age."







/rant over (This was another thread that was locked

[Ziggy]

I like fully voiced and when I first played DA I thought it would be better with it.

Now, I think one of the strengths of DA over ME is it's in-depth dialogue - you have many choices of what to say and it's not always obvious what reaction you'll get. ME, by contrast, mostly has 4 (investigate/good/neutral/bad) and you know exactly what the reaction will be so the choice you make just depends on what you feel like being.

Having full vo will inevitably simplify dialogue so I don't want it.

[sage_viper]

Here is a link for two new screenshots:
http://gameinformer....creenshots.aspx
They're not very pretty, but its an alpha build, and they will certainly improve in the final product. Just so everyone is clear, those ARE Hurlocks and that is an Ogre.
Discuss!


I personally don't really like the new Darkspawn... It just kind of walks all over the concept of what Darkspawn are, and what they should be =/

Darkspawn are supposed to have dead, dark, blackened skin from the corruption. These just look like newly dead corpses with dorky armor (really don't like the head thing, didn't like it in Awakening on the Disciples either).

[Kaorunandrak]

I like the level of graphics so far honestly. the darkspan do look a bit wierd atm but seeing how the story is taking place out side of wet dog land, I would probally sugest they are the free marches specific breed. The chainmail coifs are, well, chain mail coifs nothing much to say about them so far. Look forward to more info and footage.

[otis0310]

I've read a good chunk of this post, several pages of it, but not all of it. Most of my concerns are reflected here, but I'll try to surmise it all, and some of what I read here in to pros/cons and what I and some others were hoping to see.

Pros: Hawke is fully voiced, good, makes the game better, more emotionally satisfying.
       : Ten year span, makes it quite epic huh?
       :  New graphics, can't go wrong there.
       :  Get to choose male/female, at least there is some choice.
      
To be honest, there were few pros.

Cons:
       : Lack of ability to choose race.  Despite what I read here, the game treats you very differently if you were human or elven.Would it matter to you, maybe not, to everyone you meet, yes, a lot. From a role playing perspective, this has massive consequences.
      
        : Probable inability to play a mage: Given Hawke's history and Thedas lore, it is highly improbable that can happen. But the mage is a support character. Playing a mage I almost never saw a genlock get skewered or beheaded, Alistair did that while I was in the back tossing fireballs and healing people. This may be a decision to dumb it down, by elimating the most "intellectual" of the classes, and focus on those who DO behead the genlock. (This is speculation, but there is a REASON that most official gameplay videos show the warrior class, and not the healer in the back casting spells)
       
       : No origins - The main selling point, the one thing they focussed on throughout a good chunk of DA:O's advertising campaign is gone?  This means the inability to personalize your character, make them feel that they are YOUR character, and get attached to them. Which I believe, is the one of the greatest things of the franchise.
        
       : Hakwe is fully voiced: I know it is a pro, but the downside is that Bioware once said that if the pc had a voice in DA:O, the game would be less than half its size due to the resources required, so this also a con.

        :Combat is better: Uh oh, combat is better? It is selling that is it? We all know what sort of games emphasize that sort of thing. Is it selling story? Unforgettable characters? A mesmorizing world to explore? No, it is selling combat, this doth not a good omen make. 

        : A new dialogue system:  If you prefer the Origins way of doing it, or the slight variation in Awakening, no one can deny that the system works, and if it ain't broke . . .  .don't fix it.

        :Choices do not carry over: From a marketing or simply a budgetary perspective I doubted they would. You make too many choices.  If Anora is on the throne instead of Alistair, you must hire a second person just for that choice, same for the dwarven king.  From a gameplay perspective, we all love it. From the money hungary accountants, all they see is dollars going in the toilet. (Please don't get me started on what I think of THOSE guys)

        :Art. I have heard this complaint a few times, personally I discard it since we have not seen enough to be able to see anything. But it had to be added.

       :Too Soon. Yes, it was known that at the time DA:O was out, the sequel had begun construction.  Still, that is about 1 and a half for 2 years tops. Which basically is too soon, when most game can take twice that time.  The concern that it will flood the market with DA merchandise from the DLC will also be mentioned here.

Well that is about the list: Here;s what I think I and other people here hoped for.
    
        :New races.  I personnally don't see that coming, you can't just have fairy creatures with wings who live in the mountains and have the developers say "Oops, we forgot they existed, they do now" and have it fit in to the lore.

        :New classes.  This one was more likey, split the mages up into two different classes.  Both mages, but specialized to the point that they are an entirely different class.   That could work.

        :More Warden stories:  There are lots more stories to be told about that character. We would all like to see more. We all knew that the Warden was not the focus of the franchise, but we all would like to see more of them regardless.

        :Orgins: One of the main selling points of DA:O were the origin stories, it what we all liked, as it defined our character and how they viewed the world.

        :Choices carry over:  There is great concern they will not, that good chunks of the decisions that were made will be waved away. Bioware will say, Alistair is King now and Morrigan did have child, and just ignore your decisions to the contrary.  We all beleived it would probably happen.  If it did, the very backbone of the franchise, that the decisions you make have a consequence in the game, is ripped out. Who cares how Alistair being King in Origins effects that game, it doesn't, it makes no impact at all. We care about how that decision will impact the events to come, and how future games may be affected by it. If THAT is gone, the very essence of Dragon Age goes with it.   While we have no evidence to support this, the facts we are given so far do suggest that to be the truth.

To sum it up, I heard people say they trust Bioware, and so do I. That said, there is a great reason for concern that the Dragon Age franchise might be destroyed before it really started.  But let's hope that the few facts we know, do not lead to the broader implications they bring with them.

Modifié par otis0310, 13 juillet 2010 - 12:01 .

[taine]

sage_viper wrote...

Here is a link for two new screenshots:
http://gameinformer....creenshots.aspx
They're not very pretty, but its an alpha build, and they will certainly improve in the final product. Just so everyone is clear, those ARE Hurlocks and that is an Ogre.
Discuss!


I personally don't really like the new Darkspawn... It just kind of walks all over the concept of what Darkspawn are, and what they should be =/

Darkspawn are supposed to have dead, dark, blackened skin from the corruption. These just look like newly dead corpses with dorky armor (really don't like the head thing, didn't like it in Awakening on the Disciples either).

From the look of those screen shots, I am relatively certain that those enemy graphics are not fully textured yet. The level of detail is extremely low compared to DA:O and I doubt they'd take a step back.