436 réponses à ce sujet

[Davasar]

tbsking wrote...

Right, money is a motivator. But DA:O made heaps of cash. It outsold Mass Effect. It would seem that the best move would be to update the graphics and engine, make the proposed changes for the consoles (or at least make the tactical combat closer to the computer, for crying out loud) and give it an new plot. It would sell the same, if not more, just because there isn't this sort of controversy over it becoming like ME.

I mean just consider the fact that the announcement site made me change my mind about the game altogether. I really don't plan on getting it unless they announce some things that are gonna attract me. As it is, they changed all the stuff about it that I liked, directly into stuff I don't like.

kittong wrote...

Indeed. Controls on the console are difficult for a game like DA especially with the tactics to consider. Also considering that alot of console players are not core rpg fans. PC gamers especially the core rpg fans are very much happy with DAO. With the upcoming DA2 naturally core rpg gamers want to have the same control and tactical game play as they had with the first game. But since console gamers are mostly not satisfied with DAO for alot of reasons - Bioware, who may be under EAs orders, may make the sequel "easier", less tactical, less "pause to analyze for battle scenarios", less core rpg-like to appeal to target demographic (console gamers, casual players).

If they are indeed targeting a new demongraphic as you propose, then what I had stated on a different thread would prove true:  they are not making things to the gaming interests of their most loyal fan base and alienating them.

Italisized section probably best explains why.  I am sure EA is putting their boots on the throats of the people at Bioware, just like they have done to every other studio they destroyed...err..acquired.

I will not get the game, because that is the only way they will listen.  If enough of people hit them in their bottom line by making a non-purchase, then they will make things that cater and sell better to their loyal fanbase.  Further, because they apparnely want cash 9they are a business after all), and that's the only way to get them to notice what they are doing isnt acceptable.

Modifié par Davasar, 13 juillet 2010 - 05:46 .

[tbsking]

Davasar wrote...

tbsking wrote...

Right, money is a motivator. But DA:O made heaps of cash. It outsold Mass Effect. It would seem that the best move would be to update the graphics and engine, make the proposed changes for the consoles (or at least make the tactical combat closer to the computer, for crying out loud) and give it an new plot. It would sell the same, if not more, just because there isn't this sort of controversy over it becoming like ME.

I mean just consider the fact that the announcement site made me change my mind about the game altogether. I really don't plan on getting it unless they announce some things that are gonna attract me. As it is, they changed all the stuff about it that I liked, directly into stuff I don't like.

kittong wrote...

Indeed. Controls on the console are difficult for a game like DA especially with the tactics to consider. Also considering that alot of console players are not core rpg fans. PC gamers especially the core rpg fans are very much happy with DAO. With the upcoming DA2 naturally core rpg gamers want to have the same control and tactical game play as they had with the first game. But since console gamers are mostly not satisfied with DAO for alot of reasons - Bioware, who may be under EAs orders, may make the sequel "easier", less tactical, less "pause to analyze for battle scenarios", less core rpg-like to appeal to target demographic (console gamers, casual players).

If they are indeed targeting a new demongraphic as you propose, then what I had stated on a different thread would prove true:  they are not making things to the gaming interests of their most loyal fan base and alienating them.

Italisized section probably best explains why.  I am sure EA is putting their boots on the throats of the people at Bioware, just like they have done to every other studio they destroyed...err..acquired.

I will not get the game, because that is the only way they will listen.  If enough of people hit them in their bottom line by making a non-purchase, then they will make things that cater and sell better to their loyal fanbase.  Further, because they apparnely want cash 9they are a business after all), and that's the only way to get them to notice what they are doing isnt acceptable.

Agreed. It's sad that I have both the DA books sitting right next to me; I really like the DA universe and I'm not a big fan of the sword and sorcery fantasy genre. But this just isn't a game I'm interested in and I can't really understand who in their right mind would make such a decision. I really can't express myself well enough via the internet, but if this were a game not titled Dragon Agee, if it were called "Hawke's Adventure" or something like that, I wouldn't bother to check it out. I wouldn't buy it, I wouldn't play it because it just isn't the game I want to play. Dragon Age: Origins was.

[ThePasserby]

Davasar wrote...

If they are indeed targeting a new demongraphic as you propose, then what I had stated on a different thread would prove true:  they are not making things to the gaming interests of their most loyal fan base and alienating them.

Italisized section probably best explains why.  I am sure EA is putting their boots on the throats of the people at Bioware, just like they have done to every other studio they destroyed...err..acquired.

I will not get the game, because that is the only way they will listen.  If enough of people hit them in their bottom line by making a non-purchase, then they will make things that cater and sell better to their loyal fanbase.  Further, because they apparnely want cash 9they are a business after all), and that's the only way to get them to notice what they are doing isnt acceptable.

Regarding the words in bold, I'm fairly certain that the developers have taken a cold hard look at the different segments of the market and have thus embarked on this new direction to generate greater sales numbers, fully prepared to jettison the older, more traditional RPG market, with the belief that overall, their profits will be greater.

From the replies of the BioWare team, they aren't even trying to cajole the traditional RPG gamers to accept their new upcoming product, but rather, taking more of a "take it or leave it" stance.

In short, the smaller traditional RPG gamers' boycott of DA2 isn't really going to hit their bottomline much as they aim for a larger slice of the RPG-lite market.

[Davasar]

No argument here. As I stated in another thread, a polite way of saying "screw off" to their most loyal fanbase.

And to the new fans they are now catering to?  They are notoriously fickle with little loyalty, as soon as they newest shiny comes along, they will jettison Bioware, just like Bioware jettisoned their most loyal fanbase.

Modifié par Davasar, 13 juillet 2010 - 09:47 .

[taine]

So, uh, all you guys so pissed off that this is not the game you want to play, and saying that Bioware has abandoned their fanbase... how do you know?



There has been a grand total of one paragraph and one magazine article released about the game. Oh wait, I forgot, it's the internet. Logic and rational thoughts take second place to blind leaps of imaginary expectations.

[taine]

Didn't say anything was wrong with customer input. I think it's great the Bioware has these forums and is attentive to them. I was simply pointing out that the degree of panic and hysteria over things that, frankly, people have no way of actually confirming is kind of ridiculous. It seems like a lot of people just want to play DA:O again with a different plot and setting. I'm sure there will be player made mods for that eventually. If nothing changed in the sequels then what's the point of having them?



It's entirely possible that not every change they make will be good, but honestly all you have to go on right now is a few early screenshots and some marketing blurbs. Frankly, most of it is meaningless. There are no real details about story or gameplay. All freaking and complaints at this point are just extrapolation. Nothing wrong with telling Bioware what you want though.

[stefan9]

What I don't like is similiar to most others but I will mention it anyway. I dislike being restricted to only human characters, don't like the new dialog system I prefer the old school style. Don't like a morality meter.

[Jirak.won]

sage_viper wrote...

I guess the big concern is the assumed push towards Mass Effect, and lessening the RPG elements. Even action games like Oblivion give you race selection... and they're taking that away? This has obviously been covered several times, and is obviously not very welcome.

I agree.
I dont like it either.

[Captain Jazz]

I am royally pissed off that I'm probably going to have to upgrade my computer to play it.

[luc76985]

I know this has comment is probably getting old, but I'm going to re-echo it:



I will be seriously disappointed if I cannot tailor the main character to suit me. His (or her, for some) race, his class, his appearance...if it is all preset, then who cares? Creating and playing your own character is half the fun.

The preset main character in Mass Effect 2 is the main reason I didn't play that game.

[Lord_Saulot]

luc76985 wrote...

I know this has comment is probably getting old, but I'm going to re-echo it:

I will be seriously disappointed if I cannot tailor the main character to suit me. His (or her, for some) race, his class, his appearance...if it is all preset, then who cares? Creating and playing your own character is half the fun.
The preset main character in Mass Effect 2 is the main reason I didn't play that game.

Of the things you have mentioned, only the race is preset in DAO.  That doesn't bother me personally, since I don't really have much concern about other races, but I can understand that it might upset those who do care about that.  But you can choose your class and they were hoping to include more specializations.  I don't know if appearance is confirmed, but most people have been saying you will be able to customize appearance - I don't know if that is confirmed.

[Orfinn]

Saying just what I said in another thread... I approve of the changes! DAO 2 seems to take the best from ME and DA. They are trying out new things, let them. Its their games after all. Still we should give CONSTRUCTIVE critism. That works better than sorrowfull complaining.



And to be honest, I havent seen a fan horde more split than this! Its like ME VS DA. Aint we supposed to encourage a joining and bring forth the best arguments from both franchises? That whjat DA2 seems to me, the best of both worlds.

[luc76985]

Lord_Saulot, I think you are right. I've been reading more about it and that seems to be the case (race preset, the rest customizable). I'm not as worried about it as I was earlier, but I'm keeping my eye on this!! hah

[GehnTheGrey]

Bioware being who they are I don't necessarily fear the quality of the game. I believe it will be a very well made, enjoyable sequel. I only have one real concern, and it echos alot of what the fans of 'The Warden's' story have stated so far.

A sequel with a brand new character is fine. But I would like to know if anyone has heard if that is the end of The Warden's story for good? I don't think it inconcievable that they may return to The Warden in DA 3. But there are many unresolved plot issues from Origins and Awakening regarding The Warden (and Morrigan etc) that I think would be innapropriate to explore with a new, largely speaking generic, character. If this means the end of The Warden for good, I personally will loose interest in the franchise. But that's just me. I've searched around but can find no information regarding if The Warden is gone for good. What are peoples opinions on this? Has anyone any idea or information regarding this matter?

Modifié par GehnTheGrey, 13 juillet 2010 - 04:09 .

[Lord_Saulot]

luc76985 wrote...

Lord_Saulot, I think you are right. I've been reading more about it and that seems to be the case (race preset, the rest customizable). I'm not as worried about it as I was earlier, but I'm keeping my eye on this!! hah

Awesome; I'm keeping my on it too.    Also, I'm confident that Bioware knows and cares for DA more than any of us fans, and will thus do right by it.  

[Skaden]

While i feel that it's far too to early to make any concrete conclusions here are my first impressions regarding this game based on what we've heard so far.



Preset Race- while i typically play a human, on principle i disagree with this decision and feel that it is a fundemental inconsistancy with DAO as well as a needless limitation for players.



No Origins- While im all for change, this was 1 of the cornerstone factors that made DAO great, this deeply cripples replayability in terms of creating your own unique character thats different from everyone elses'. In DAO origins were one of the key ways your character was defined and devoloped throughout the story, hopefully DA2 will implement some form of this.



VO- To be honest, personally this doesn't bother me that much, i liked both DAO and ME forms of dialogoue, however i do feel that both games r great for their own reasons and shouldn't take 2 many cues from each other, i like each franchise for what it is.



Regarding the new screens released yesterday- i feel that while some aspects have improved some obviously require much more refinement before release. Is it just me or does that Ogre look like it has skin cancer?



Finally, regarding Hawke- (slight rant warning) I hate to sound petty or overly critical but ive gotta be honest the diffault appearance for Hawke is the stupidist looking protagonist for an rpg ive seen in a long time. What's that, i can fully customize his appearance? Then what is that half bear neanderthal on steroids that looks like he came out of Conan the Barbarian doing on the cover? (rant over)



1 last thing, im sorry but the name Hawke... its not that i hate it just for the sake of it, it just feels like it... doesn't fit in with the rest of the DA universe, not a big deal its just been bugging me.



Again, my earlier comments to the contrary, i remain mainly neutral in that these r only my impressions on what has been released so far and can easily change when more information is revealed

[GammaRayJim]

I think that this rush to judgment is a little extreme too. Barely anything has been released. A company's motives for the choices and directions that they take their product is ultimately their decision. That they listen at all through these forums is great but they are under no obligation to do anything that we want. We as consumers can choose not to purchase what they are offering and IMO based on what little info has been released that decision at this point would be a little premature.

David Gaider in another thread said something to the effect that they are telling a story about the world of Thedas and the Dragon Age. After I read that I immediately compared it to Steven Erikson "Malazan" series of fantasy novels that spans quite a few years and is told by different characters point of view. BUT it's all one story. The Malazan series split up the main characters and did not bring them back together again (those still alive) until the seventh novel. Hell book five didn't even have any of the main character but instead introduced a whole new set of them. Same can be said for Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. Each chapter is told from the point of view of a specific character but it moves the whole story forward. I think maybe we should look at this as one big story be told from different points of view.

I also think this ten year story of Hawke maybe a good way to segue into the story of the Morrigan's child. What better way of filling the gap and age the child past the diaper years (boring) than with the story of someone else (just a theory).

Anyway I am looking forward to it either way. It really has for me been like playing all the fantasy novels I love to read.

[Chairon de Celeste]

The replayability is my main concern.
Much  depends on the weight of the decisions made in
DA O and the xp.

No worries about the release date though.
Although ~9 remaining months of development seems
a terribly short deadline:
We don't have any confirmed information when BioWare
started working on RtP, do we? 

July 8th was just announcement day, after all.

[sage_viper]

Here is a link to some info I accidentally read over. It explains that the PC version will remain essentially unchanged in terms of combat. It also mentions the dialog wheel, which really doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as a lot of people originally thought.

http://kotaku.com/55...fects-footsteps

[XaintMP]

I havn't read all 12 pages of this as I have just now heard about the DA2 announcements. It makes me very sad. I don't want to play Mass Effect: Mideval. I liked being able to basically create my character from scratch and choose an origin story. What concerns me the most is the dialogue wheel. BioWare, please don't take away my dialogue options.



It looks like all future BioWare games will be born out of the Mass Effect mold. Dang.

[tbsking]

GammaRayJim wrote...

I think that this rush to judgment is a little extreme too. Barely anything has been released. A company's motives for the choices and directions that they take their product is ultimately their decision. That they listen at all through these forums is great but they are under no obligation to do anything that we want. We as consumers can choose not to purchase what they are offering and IMO based on what little info has been released that decision at this point would be a little premature.
David Gaider in another thread said something to the effect that they are telling a story about the world of Thedas and the Dragon Age. After I read that I immediately compared it to Steven Erikson "Malazan" series of fantasy novels that spans quite a few years and is told by different characters point of view. BUT it's all one story. The Malazan series split up the main characters and did not bring them back together again (those still alive) until the seventh novel. Hell book five didn't even have any of the main character but instead introduced a whole new set of them. Same can be said for Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. Each chapter is told from the point of view of a specific character but it moves the whole story forward. I think maybe we should look at this as one big story be told from different points of view.
I also think this ten year story of Hawke maybe a good way to segue into the story of the Morrigan's child. What better way of filling the gap and age the child past the diaper years (boring) than with the story of someone else (just a theory).
Anyway I am looking forward to it either way. It really has for me been like playing all the fantasy novels I love to read.

And I'm all for making the Lord of the Rings of video game settings. But did any of those books leave the heavy implication that a character would return in the next? Did they end with the statement that "his tale is not yet over..." or did they leave each ending fairly clear that the character was alive/dead, with a happy/unhappy ending on the way, or that he at the very least has his tale all completed?

Because my main problem with DA2 is that the Warden's story isn't over. Just from my own tale:

Warden follows Morrigan
Architect is dead and Darkspawn still hate people
Possible Exalted March

And an Orlesian Warden's ending states that there are rumors of a Blight in Orlais and he never returns.

So what happened? As a smart person stated a few posts above, it would be highly inappropriate for Hawke to sum these lines up. I mean, Hawke doesn't care about Morrigan or her baby past the point where she's an enemy, nor is he responisble for preventing an end to the Darkspawn. These are all things that only make sense for the Warden to solve.

[sage_viper]

XaintMP wrote...

I havn't read all 12 pages of this as I have just now heard about the DA2 announcements. It makes me very sad. I don't want to play Mass Effect: Mideval. I liked being able to basically create my character from scratch and choose an origin story. What concerns me the most is the dialogue wheel. BioWare, please don't take away my dialogue options.

It looks like all future BioWare games will be born out of the Mass Effect mold. Dang.

Read the article above. Nothing about a dialog wheel is going to take away dialog options, if anything it it will add more.

[Deathstyk85]

"coming to a gaming store near you, Dragon effect!"

seriously though, i dont like the sound of the game so far.

my first concern, the dialogue "wheel" i dont like it. heres why. in mass effect, you had the "wheel" and throughout the whole game there was no real depth to the choice, it was either, " ill choose the rebel dialogue, cause its red, and it makes me a rebel" or the exact opposite with paragon or whatever word it was that i forgot.

this also goes to say im not a huge fan of the fully voiced, well i actually am, i just dont like the forced gaming elements it implies, like a set name. i dont want people to call me "hawke" what if i want a more badass name, or a different name. also kills the replay value to me, when i replay a game, i do so as a different character,

takes place over a decade. i like this idea, i do. i just have one fear of it. if it is, and this isnt me assuming or fearmongering, or reading too much into it, its just one possible outcome that im not a fan of. anyway, if its like a set thing, like say fable, where its like "and now your transitioning out of childhood are you sure you want to continue" type of deal, i really hope there is not tons of events or items or what not, that you can only do or get or go to in a certain phase. im a completionist to some degree, and id hate to get halfway through the game, and then realize i missed something awesome in my "childhood" phase that i cant go back to.