436 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuchlain]

Thanks for starting this thread.  Sorry my comments are so long.

It is hard to comment on DA 2, since we do not know much about it.  I think there will be far more once it is released and the comparisons really roll.  I would say, however, that it is not Bioware's game.  They produce an environment for you to pay for and experience.  As David Gaider said in his inteview on Greywardens.com, it is the gamer's game that matters.  We decide if we like it or not.  I suspect most of us will, despite it not being everything that we want.

It is hard to influence DA 2.  Maybe we can influence a DA 2 spin-off ala DAA or DA 3.

Why the "Dark" Fantasy line, anyway, @ Bioware?  Why not develop "grey fantasy" and draw from the best of both literary worlds?

I do not recall being consulted by a Bioware marketing survey, as to what I would like to see or not.  Maybe I missed it.  As a businessman,  I know this could have been done with a prompt through Bioware online.   You might even have an incentive to participate, such as a downloadable weapon or armor to be used in DAA or some DLC.   Feedback is not something new or at times even desired, for opinion changes over time and the market you sample and questions you ask drive the results you get.  Still, I would like to see a feedback mechanism put into DA 2 to get as broad a sample as possible and that I feel as if what I have to say matters.

I never played ME or any other games other than fantasy RPG.  Never will.  So I cannot comment on that interface.  I can say that  I do like the potential DA 2 improvements such as VO and of course more "eye candy."  Visual spectacle, character choices, and thinking that what you are doing affects the outcome.  That said, it created a monster in DA:O.   If you have 27 possible outcomes based upon six character stories, it becomes very  complicated mathematically to continue.  At some point,  it's too hard to do given time, money, resources and the pressure from above of "What have you done for me lately?"  So, off in a new direction.  Or, you can say that of the 27 possible outcomes, what really happened was #14.  So now we are going to start with #14 and move on.  Take it or leave it. 

While playing DA:O, my wife and I figured out fast that even with Bioware's talent, no way could they match everything up.   So we played through twice, once with a character that we picked for fun (Dalish elves) and then what we thought would actually import (human nobles).  And , we are very disappointed.  Just one example: we would love to find out what happened to Morrigan and her Warden after he went after her but that is apparently not going to happen in DA 2.  So, what we would like to see is a future option to play as "more experienced" Wardens who get involved in whatever Hawke man or Hawke woman do to the world.   This may reunite several of the past romance options, other companions, and new ones from both DA:O and DA 2 in a DA 3 taking place 20-25 years down the road.  Of course, this will not appeal to everyone, so it is an option, as much as starting a new main character.  You may not be able to import your old character from DA:O or DA 2 based upon engine but you may be able to recreate him/her. For example, create a Warden with Morrigan's ring or Alistair's rose that triggers flags.

 RPG's tend to be talk, kill, talk some more, kill some more, defeat something big, then end it leaving certain things hanging in case the game is a financial success.    DA 2 may follow that line but it does allow you to see the Dragon Age unfold from a different viewpoint, which can be cool.  Still, it is disappointing for those of us who have vested issues from DA:O and DAA that we would like to experience ourselves at some point.  We hope that Bioware will do something about that eventually.   

As with any game, we do not buy it immediately.  Marketing trailers do little to tell you what is going on, they mostly show off the visual eye candy to get you excited and pre-order.   Gameinformer and others like it (see Greywardens.com, for example) do not ask tough enough questions of Corporate to get at the details because why reveal them in an interview?   In some cases, you do not know if a company is paying someone to promote the product in an interview (not suggesting that here but it does happen).  So we wait for feedback from all of you who have played it  and then decide based upon your comments to spend the money or not.  When we do, we buy 15-20 copies at a pop for our kids, nieces, and nephews.  So, we do spend money for quality and a storyline that allows us to continue to be involved from start to finish of a series.  And, yes, I know I am a has-been out-of-market baby boomer who started playing RPG's with dice, paper, and Chainmail rules (still have them and all the original D and D guidebooks).

Still, thanks for the opportunity.

[Suicider_11]

Sir Occam wrote...
[/quote]
I think what slimgrin is saying is that whether it's this new dialogue wheel or the dialogue list that DA:O had, you're always having words put into your character's mouth. It's not like they let you type your own lines in DA:O. So whether it's arranged in a straight line and with no sound or in a circle with sound, the concept is the same: the writers decide what you can and can't say and how the NPCs react. It's only the presentation that's changing, not the content.
[/quote]

I totally agree. B)B)

Modifié par Suicider_11, 16 juillet 2010 - 03:55 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

it's really too early to make any judgement. While some of the new developments don't really sound great, there are others that look quite promising.



For the good:



1. Set in Free Marches. That's a place that interests me, because it's not a country, but a loose collection of cities and places. Near anarchy, compared to other locations in Thedas. This new setting sounds promising in variety and options, as well as adding new lore to the DA universe.



2. Story takes place over a decade. This is great, because it's rare you get such an extended time frame in an RPG where you can experience the gradual changes and situations of your character's life. It sounds like it's going to be more character-centric, a more personal journey than a heros journey. Which I really dig the idea of.



3. A new storyline. new challenges. And a new theme, instead of the chosen one/elite group scenario. Which is fine, but it's always nice to have changes.



4. Carrying on the tradition of no morality meter. It's more realistic. Morality and ethics are such a vast, grey zone that it's tedious to pigeonhole decisions and worldviews in a sliding scale of good/evil because people are more complex than that, and it's something I love about DA. You decide morality, and deal with the consequences of your choices, which seldom turn out as intended.



5. return of some old characters possibly, like Flemeth. Hope she's still voiced by kate Mullgrew.







My dislikes, thus far, are really limited to:



1. Voiced/canned character. As much as Mass Effect was fun, it was not as immersive, because you were limited in your RP style. The limitations of only being Hawke, even if Hawke can be male or female, and of different classes, limits replayability as far as I am concerned, since Hawke only comes in human from Lothering variety.



2. lack or origins and race choice. DAO was the first RPG I've ever played where you had so many different backgrounds with so many different possibilities of roleplay. This made DAO a game that I still rate high in replayability. In fact, the most replayable RPG I've ever played. because not only is your gender/class/race changable, but your personal story background, and thus, perspective or attitude, is highly variable. This goes back really to the canned character complaint. It limits replayability, only being able to play a Ferelden human from Lothering named Hawke, with the same voice. I think the concept of having origins should have been kept for DA2, because that was a major selling point for the original. Having six unique ways of how your character ended up in the Free Marches and the potential champion of Kirkwall would have been a better execution.





I am going to keep up on the news for DA2. I have high hopes that it will be worthy of it's predecessor, even if there's a couple of things I am not fond of. I have faith in the writing team to deliver an awesome, involving story that could end up making the less than stellar points moot.

[Anonymous Smith]

Postponing judgment until the game is released. I have faith that Bioware will deliver.

[Mecha Tengu]

guys please make TLDR versions



the devs honestly wont go through entire pages of your personal tastes. Just make short, simple points if you want people's attention

[CoM Solaufein]

Beating a dead horse because the developers minds are already made up, but predefined characters suck. RPGs are about making choices, not forcing a template down your throat. So DA2 is a Action or FPS game and not an RPG.

[sage_viper]

CoM Solaufein wrote...

Beating a dead horse because the developers minds are already made up, but predefined characters suck. RPGs are about making choices, not forcing a template down your throat. So DA2 is a Action or FPS game and not an RPG.

Just because you're a predefined character doesn't mean that every single choice is completely gone. That's naive and ridiculous. 

I don't like it much, either, but it doesn't completely destroy all RPG elements. 

Modifié par sage_viper, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:20 .

[Well]

element eater wrote...

bzombo wrote...

rpgs do not need the crazy graphics. they're not fps. rpgs are about characters and the plot. they'll do some fine tuning, but a new engine is not needed. if all you want is graphics, rpgs are not your thing.

 give this man a prize

sorry for double post

Yup.Hit the nail on the head.

[LMNOPMusic]

I originally was worried about the main character but now its fine

[sage_viper]

filaminstrel wrote...

I'm concerned that there won't be enough cowbell.

I've heard that they're taking out Cowbell completely and replacing it with one tone of Lamb bell =/

[Raiynsong]

Since the other thread I started was locked I'm coming on here to state that my favorite part of DA:O was the replayability due to multiple origin stories. Having mutiple race/class stories really brought the COMPLEXITY of Ferelden society alive. It's not just playing a female hawke rather than a male hawke, or a rogue vs a mage. The WRITING is what made DA:O a great game for me, and I'm very sad that the multiple origins and races won't be continued.

[Roland Aseph]

Well wrote...

element eater wrote...

bzombo wrote...

rpgs do not need the crazy graphics. they're not fps. rpgs are about characters and the plot. they'll do some fine tuning, but a new engine is not needed. if all you want is graphics, rpgs are not your thing.

 give this man a prize

sorry for double post

Yup.Hit the nail on the head.

Yea what you're saying would be true IF we hadn't already had ALL those things in DAO.

In DAO we had a great, distinct art style that conveyed the mood and setting of the IP and storyline perfectly.

So why mess with something that's a clear success? So the consoles can have an easier time of it with plastic cartoon graphics that are hyper stylized and not as detailed? If so that's a crock imo

The game looks and runs fantastic with my 3-4 year old 8800GT card. 

And from what I've seen so far it doesn't look like the new art direction is going to be any more taxing...imo it will be less.

So my question is, WHY go backwards?

DAO proved that BW could hit the mark across the board!

And again, I'm sorry but anyone with a clue should be able to look at an in game shot of DAO and recognize it just fine. We don't need some spiky over stylized cartoon graphics so that people can point and say "Look is DA2"

The whole graphics thing just makes no sense at all. Not when your "update" and new process looks worse and older than what you had to begin with!!!

Modifié par Roland Aseph, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[yslee]

The fact that it is due in March 2011. DA:O took a long time, and was quite a good game; Awakenings came out shortly, and it felt rushed. I'd rather they took longer and polished the game more. Same for ME3 too; another 2011 release leaves me nervous.

[Haexpane]

The only Bioware game that let me down was Mass Effect 2.



And that's my biggest concern, my least favorite Bioware game seems to be inspiring the Spiritual Successor to the best RPG ever made, Baldur's Gate 2

[sage_viper]

 The new Joystiq article really doesn't do a whole lot to make me happy... The way it's written really confirms that this is going towards a more generic hack n' slash game, and throwing out a lot of the decision making by creating a framed narrative. This news was really kind of a downer for me, and took out a little bit of hope.

But then again, it was really bad journalism to begin with, because the author obviously had some facts wrong, such as the location, which he assumed was in Ferelden, which we all know isn't the case.

[Magus_42]

One comment. In the Game Informer article, the Bioware representative speaks of DA:O being reliant on a "nostalgic" style of play. I can't speak for Bioware's player base as a whole, but for me, I didn't enjoy DA:O because it reminded me of other games. I enjoyed it because it was a well-constructed game of a style I enjoyed back in middle school, and I still enjoy 15 or so years later. I hope that Bioware realizes that taking a good product and continuing to improve and expand upon it is not limiting yourself to nostalgia.



That said, there's something to be said for trying something new as well, and Bioware certainly seems convinced that there customers are expecting a different sort of experience. That's not true for me, and I'm disappointed by the news, but I don't buy enough copies to keep Bioware in business.

[Magus_42]

So, as a separate thought, on the theme of constructive criticism, I don't think Bioware has done a very good job of managing their marketing message for this game, at least for PC players. You're taking a series that you pushed as the "spirtual successor" of probably the most loved PC game you've ever made, and you're saying the new game is nothing like that, now it's more extreme and easier to play on the consoles. That's fine, but you really need to be ready on day 1 to tell the older generation PC players what they get out of the new changes. Some of the comments I've read from Bioware people read as if the approach taken in DA:O is something of a failure, which is an odd strategy to take with a game which is well regarded by a lot of your customers.

[Code2010]

I hope DA 2 keeps the depth part one had. I own both Mass Effect and Dragon Age enjoyed both but liked Dragon Age more. Dragon Age reminded me of KOTOR and they both IMO have been the best examples of modernizing the old school RPGs that so many of us love. Other western RPGs are nice but feel more like action games with deep RPG choices. It has nothing to do with the combat so much as the customization and simplified RPG elements. Funny as it sound I like to nerd out on my RPGs lol give me lots of stats and spells to tweak hundreds of hours of gameplay along with complicated conversation choices that have more than simple good/bad choices Dragon Age did this!



I also love games that let you build your own mini army set up a base in a way that you can customize and grow then carry out quests that change the entire experience of the game world depending on your choices.



The thing I loved the most in part one that I hope returns is the unique battles with your entire squad (not just the 3 team members with you) against a huge enemy force. Felt very epic and I have always wondered why RPGs never did this before.



On the playstation 1 I played an tactics RPG that was perfect.. I have played many great RPGs but this one still has elements I loved that have not been put in RPGs since. Called Tactics Ogre.

It to my knowledge was the first game to put a true good evil system in play. The main hero had a rep meter and also a special ability where he could persuade creatures he fought against to join him when they were low enough in health.. in some cases even bosses. You never knew who could join your team or not as you would fight the same bosses multiple times and depending on the moral choices you made, your rep, and certain conditions some would join some would not. It has multiple endings depending on all the characters you unlocked, Up to 12 squad members per battle 20 in your team over all. The story would play out different depending on the choices you made and who you had in your party. Some unlocked characters were gained through side quests choices made and rep and could be missed much like Sten. It even had a "special" dungeon stages 99 total! with very difficult fights for unique very rare random items. The game had everything.



Games are about challenge/reward and building a story a experience upon that. The challenge is balancing everything. I salute Bioware for doing a great job with that.

[sage_viper]

After hearing more information, a lot of my initial fears have been extinguished.



The PC version is remaining largely unchanged, and the "faster fighting" isn't hack n' slash, it just means that our characters no longer have to take a step back to get to the proper position it initiate their order. Which is good, because I'd prefer my character would just lash out right there without any delay.



I am a LITTLE concerned about some of these moves, like the spinning attack that apparently bisects several enemies at once... talk about power trolling. But I'm fairly certain that Bioware will balance things out.



I'm more excited for this game than I was before, and I'm pretty excited for upcoming info and gameplay videos.

[Merlin326]

My own fears for this game are fairly limited (due in part to my faith in BW and in the fact that little imformation is abound thus far). My only concern is the graphics, but I'm keeping that in check because any screenshots revealed thus far are probably still prototypes.

Cynical Being wrote...

Most of my fears are just confusion. One being about how they will take events occurring in Origins and Awakening and display them in DA2. Also, many of the reviews on DA2 have talked about "a new dash move" does that mean that we are keeping most of the same talents and spells from Origins? (Duel weapon sweep, etc) From the way they said it, it almost sounded like there was only a few new moves to combat.. Hopefully that's a ridiculous fear, right? The same with specializations?

Question.. I didn't play Awakening.. So will I miss something from Dragon Age 2? I mean was there some epic story I didn't get, that will be important to the Dragon Age universe? Summarize for me anyone?

I think I can lessen some of those fears, my friend.

For the choices, its simply determining what you did (via the save files), and altering dialogue, places, etc. with that information (a la Mass Effect 2 with Mass Effect 1).

Specializations have been confirmed, though if they are the same ones or not has not been confirmed (to my knowledge).

The 'dash move', if I recall that article right, is simply a mechanic to enhance combat. example: in DA:O, say you command Alistar to go and Shield Bash the mage. Alistar with then meander along as a fairly slow pace and perform the specified action.

The 'dash move', as I understand it, means that (to use the above example) Alistar with run (or at least move faster) instead of meander to his target. This is speculation on my part, though

As for Awakening, we have little in regards to story, so I cant tell you if you will miss anything or not. I would remmomend playing it, however.

[Djehmli]

On the voice acting, I enjoyed the voice acting in Mass Effect until I rolled another character. My first character I now associated with the femshep voice. When my second character opened her mouth and the same voice tonation rolled out it completely through me. I didn't want my second blond bimbo adept kick ash protagonist to sound like my in the trenches, red headed, bust your chops soldier.
Right there went my re playability. One male character and one female character play-through is all I did.
With a silent protagonist it is my imagination that supplies the tones and characterizations. But then I enjoy reading multiple books over watching multiple movies.
DA has allowed me to experience several different origins, adding many hours of future game play. DA:2 may end up being for me, one male play through and one female play through based on the voice acting alone.
It has been an extremely long time since a game world has made me care for a character so much, I really dislike the hanging over cliff edge for eternity feeling I am getting.

Modifié par Djehmli, 31 juillet 2010 - 02:50 .

[Vandrayke]

Djehmli wrote...

On the voice acting, I enjoyed the voice acting in Mass Effect until I rolled another character. My first character I now associated with the femshep voice. When my second character opened her mouth and the same voice tonation rolled out it completely through me. I didn't want my second blond bimbo adept kick ash protagonist to sound like my in the trenches, red headed, bust your chops soldier.
Right there went my re playability. One male character and one female character play-through is all I did.
With a silent protagonist it is my imagination that supplies the tones and characterizations. But then I enjoy reading multiple books over watching multiple movies.
DA has allowed me to experience several different origins, adding many hours of future game play. DA:2 may end up being for me, one male play through and one female play through based on the voice acting alone.
It has been an extremely long time since a game world has made me care for a character so much, I really dislike the hanging over cliff edge for eternity feeling I am getting.

oh for sure but I never play completely through more than twice anyways... luckily, the games are really long so I still logged like 200 hours on DA:O and like 120 hours on ME2.  That's a long time and a lot of fun