924 réponses à ce sujet

[elearon1]

>> If you've had no direct experience with abusive relationships and the like, I'm happy for you. Personally? I've seen too much in real life to consider it an enriching element of roleplaying. <<



Quite the opposite, but I *can* distinguish between fantasy and reality, so having this in a game isn't going to ruin my life.

[mosaiclobster]

Hah, not mine either. But it seems like a bizarre situation to let someone end up in- it's not as if the game would constantly be warning you, as that's not very good storytelling. Someone doesn't have to be delusional to be really upset by something, for it to at least ruin their gaming experience.



I could only see it having a place in this universe if it was some weird mind control from a mage that you had to break from, or if you could kill them before it escalated. It needs something to ground it in fantasy, otherwise it's a Lifetime movie or a True Crime special.

[elearon1]

>>Roleplaying adds a completely different element, a whole layer of immersion that a film or book can't really rival.<<



You're right, it makes it more intense, more personal, more profound - elevates the game from a toy to a form of art ... and art should be both ugly as well as pretty.



But there should probably be some kind of tell for people who simply don't want to risk this sort of thing ... like a scene which gives you some insight into the fact that this guy might be abusive, or having to be nice to the stalker three times while she becomes a little more obviously obsessive each time ... just so people don't get accidentally sucked into something that is going to ruin there game.



I don't want to give the wrong idea here - I don't want people forced into anything, or ambushed by anything, that is going to outright ruin their gaming experience ... I simply want something there for people looking for a more intense game.



I have no problem if the sweet and sticky romance and happy endings are there for people who want them - so long as there is something for the people who'd wish to avoid those as much as you might wish to avoid an abusive relationship story.



As for making something like that more fantastical ... the only problem I have with that is "dark and gritty" settings should rely less on magic than on mundane human wickedness to tell their stories. For a normal fantasy game that would be fine ... I guess it depends on what kind of game Bioware really wants DA to be.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Dunno if suggested, but more physical interaction with love interests and companions overall would be great. It bothered me a lot in Origins that except for kisses and sex scenes, there was barely any physical interaction between the Warden and the rest of the companions.

I'd love to comfort my LI while s/he is sad and hug him/her. Or punch one of the companions in the jaw for an indecent remark. Or playfuly tackle a friend to the ground. Or give a pat on the back for a job well done. You get my drift.

So, anyone else feels the same?

[Fangirl17]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Dunno if suggested, but more physical interaction with love interests and companions overall would be great. It bothered me a lot in Origins that except for kisses and sex scenes, there was barely any physical interaction between the Warden and the rest of the companions.
I'd love to comfort my LI while s/he is sad and hug him/her. Or punch one of the companions in the jaw for an indecent remark. Or playfuly tackle a friend to the ground. Or give a pat on the back for a job well done. You get my drift.
So, anyone else feels the same?

Thats a great suggestion! I would love that. It would really add depth to your interaction with companions.Great idea,thumbs up!

I REALLY hope the devs are reading our suggestions and considering them :3

[Annie_Dear]

Mel213 wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

Games4ever wrote...

Annie_Dear wrote...

I want to romance someone like this guy:



Please Bioware? Pretty please?

I hope you are an Girl with that statement? 

I am a girl, yes. I just have a thing for guys with an accent like Zaeed

*high fives*

The romance world needs more men like Zaeed, goddamn right.

Especially if they have the same voice and accent

[errant_knight]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Dunno if suggested, but more physical interaction with love interests and companions overall would be great. It bothered me a lot in Origins that except for kisses and sex scenes, there was barely any physical interaction between the Warden and the rest of the companions.
I'd love to comfort my LI while s/he is sad and hug him/her. Or punch one of the companions in the jaw for an indecent remark. Or playfuly tackle a friend to the ground. Or give a pat on the back for a job well done. You get my drift.
So, anyone else feels the same?

Agreed. It's a little unnatural to jump right from no relationship to sex without anything in between, and while you can repeat the sex as much as seems right for the relationship, you can't give the LI a hug when one of you is feeling down, or put a hand on a companion's shoulder after a difficult moment. That would really add a lot to roleplay.

[errant_knight]

elearon1 wrote...

>>Roleplaying adds a completely different element, a whole layer of immersion that a film or book can't really rival.

You're right, it makes it more intense, more personal, more profound - elevates the game from a toy to a form of art ... and art should be both ugly as well as pretty.

But there should probably be some kind of tell for people who simply don't want to risk this sort of thing ... like a scene which gives you some insight into the fact that this guy might be abusive, or having to be nice to the stalker three times while she becomes a little more obviously obsessive each time ... just so people don't get accidentally sucked into something that is going to ruin there game.

I don't want to give the wrong idea here - I don't want people forced into anything, or ambushed by anything, that is going to outright ruin their gaming experience ... I simply want something there for people looking for a more intense game.

I have no problem if the sweet and sticky romance and happy endings are there for people who want them - so long as there is something for the people who'd wish to avoid those as much as you might wish to avoid an abusive relationship story.

As for making something like that more fantastical ... the only problem I have with that is "dark and gritty" settings should rely less on magic than on mundane human wickedness to tell their stories. For a normal fantasy game that would be fine ... I guess it depends on what kind of game Bioware really wants DA to be.

So, while I don't actually agree with you that this should be in a video game, I do want to commend you for keeping your cool when people, including myself, reacted badly, and for making your argument in such a reasoned way. I may not agree, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

[mordy_was_here]

errant_knight wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

>>Roleplaying adds a completely different element, a whole layer of immersion that a film or book can't really rival.

You're right, it makes it more intense, more personal, more profound - elevates the game from a toy to a form of art ... and art should be both ugly as well as pretty.

But there should probably be some kind of tell for people who simply don't want to risk this sort of thing ... like a scene which gives you some insight into the fact that this guy might be abusive, or having to be nice to the stalker three times while she becomes a little more obviously obsessive each time ... just so people don't get accidentally sucked into something that is going to ruin there game.

I don't want to give the wrong idea here - I don't want people forced into anything, or ambushed by anything, that is going to outright ruin their gaming experience ... I simply want something there for people looking for a more intense game.

I have no problem if the sweet and sticky romance and happy endings are there for people who want them - so long as there is something for the people who'd wish to avoid those as much as you might wish to avoid an abusive relationship story.

As for making something like that more fantastical ... the only problem I have with that is "dark and gritty" settings should rely less on magic than on mundane human wickedness to tell their stories. For a normal fantasy game that would be fine ... I guess it depends on what kind of game Bioware really wants DA to be.

So, while I don't actually agree with you that this should be in a video game, I do want to commend you for keeping your cool when people, including myself, reacted badly, and for making your argument in such a reasoned way. I may not agree, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

I've gotta echo this sentiment, however squicky I find the topic.

[elearon1]

>>So, while I don't actually agree with you that this should be in a video game, I do want to commend you for keeping your cool when people, including myself, reacted badly, and for making your argument in such a reasoned way. I may not agree, but I have to give credit where credit is due.



>I've gotta echo this sentiment, however squicky I find the topic.<<<



I appreciate the sentiment. We're not all going to see eye to eye on this stuff, but we owe it to one another to try and be civil about those disputes. That said, tempers flare and stuff happens - no hard feelings there.



That said and out of the way - what kind of more intense relationship ideas would people be comfortable with?



I like the hug/holding hands/ etc. idea, though I think something like that came up earlier in the thread. (or perhaps a thread like this) When not dealing with traumatizing horrors I would like LIs to behave as though they are actually closer to the pc ... checking on how they are doing after tough decisions, difficult moral choices, that sort of thing. (I said this part before, so won't repeat it much here)



What about a relationship that starts out as a "friends with benefits" and potentially becomes something more ... or not? Or have someone actually try to seduce your LI away from you while you're off on adventures and he(or she) is left behind? (assuming you had a romance with someone who wasn't in your party) There might not necessarily even be a case where the person leaves you unless you behave disinterested or the like - but there would be the drama of "is she going to leave me!?".



For that matter, I wouldn't mind having a relationship with someone who is actually not part of my party, but remains in a town or whatnot that I visit a great deal. Perhaps how often you visit could effect the quality of your relationship?



Other, less traumatizing ideas?

[errant_knight]

elearon1 wrote...

>>So, while I don't actually agree with you that this should be in a video game, I do want to commend you for keeping your cool when people, including myself, reacted badly, and for making your argument in such a reasoned way. I may not agree, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

>I've gotta echo this sentiment, however squicky I find the topic.

I appreciate the sentiment. We're not all going to see eye to eye on this stuff, but we owe it to one another to try and be civil about those disputes. That said, tempers flare and stuff happens - no hard feelings there.

That said and out of the way - what kind of more intense relationship ideas would people be comfortable with?

I like the hug/holding hands/ etc. idea, though I think something like that came up earlier in the thread. (or perhaps a thread like this) When not dealing with traumatizing horrors I would like LIs to behave as though they are actually closer to the pc ... checking on how they are doing after tough decisions, difficult moral choices, that sort of thing. (I said this part before, so won't repeat it much here)

What about a relationship that starts out as a "friends with benefits" and potentially becomes something more ... or not? Or have someone actually try to seduce your LI away from you while you're off on adventures and he(or she) is left behind? (assuming you had a romance with someone who wasn't in your party) There might not necessarily even be a case where the person leaves you unless you behave disinterested or the like - but there would be the drama of "is she going to leave me!?".

For that matter, I wouldn't mind having a relationship with someone who is actually not part of my party, but remains in a town or whatnot that I visit a great deal. Perhaps how often you visit could effect the quality of your relationship?

Other, less traumatizing ideas?

I agree with the bolded part completely. In terms of a 'friends with benefits' relationship, that's exactly how the Zevran one starts. You have to be willing to go there to even get the relationship started. As for the possibility of a relationship ending due to events outside a character's control, well, that might be a little too much like real life to be fun.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .

[Desken]

I can understand some people not caring about the whole relationship thing, but it's and RPG and it adds depth.
It's also a way to put DA into a diffrent level from other games, if I only wanted squash and bash I guess
I'd simply go play diablo.

Also adding the romance means mostly adding a good deal of female players boosting sales. Can't blame them there.


I actually enjoy getting to know the npc's better, some stories are intresting and I enjoy them more than reading them (just like audio books),


I agree what many users about having a diffrent kind of relationship. One were you influence the personality of the companions from good to evil , and perhaps changingthe sterotypes (ice cold woman) is a good idea (I like Morrigan but enough already).
The pat on the back friendship I welcome more than any sex scene at all.

Modifié par Desken, 15 juillet 2010 - 08:30 .

[mopotter]

elearon1 wrote...

I'm not suggesting anyone take away your options - I'm suggesting giving you more options by making these things possible. Just like any of the relationship material, you have to initiate the relationship - you are not forced into any of them. If you want the sappy romance, go for it, but there should be the potential for deeper storylines there for those who want them.

I'm all for as many options as possible, but if they included the abuse or stalking, I really mean it.  I want to be able to kill them.  
 I also agree that you should not be forced into any of the love relationships and that has happened accidentally in past games.  But unless you have the little gizmo someone suggested checking if you want romance rather than just friendship, accidents will happen and I want to be able to shoot, stab or break the neck of any male or female character who is abusive or stalks.  

I don't find romance "sappy" unless it's in a chick flick, which I don't usually go to see.   But I love movies like Blade Runner, Indiana Jones, Serenity, The mummy,  The One, Kiss of the Dragon, Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven, Laura Croft,  Lords of the Ring-all 3, Star Wars 4,5,6 and so on.  Most of these had some romance included, some more than others and all of them had an ending that installed a hope in the future.  

I'm not looking for a sappy romance.  I'm looking for a deep story that includes the elements of love and friendship where I can play as female or male and finish the game with at least one - we survived this, we are together and we can have a good future  - ending.   

 BioWare does this better than anyone out there.  

[Games4ever]

I feel all dirty after reading this thread.



I'm going for a bath. In my pajamas of course

[mopotter]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Dunno if suggested, but more physical interaction with love interests and companions overall would be great. It bothered me a lot in Origins that except for kisses and sex scenes, there was barely any physical interaction between the Warden and the rest of the companions.
I'd love to comfort my LI while s/he is sad and hug him/her. Or punch one of the companions in the jaw for an indecent remark. Or playfuly tackle a friend to the ground. Or give a pat on the back for a job well done. You get my drift.
So, anyone else feels the same?

I agree.  I don't know if we would be able to initiate all of it, Though a hug should be as easy as initiating a kiss.  

But it would be nice to see something in the camp or town.  Having some of them sitting around playing some kind of card game or throwing rocks into a circle,   And I know they could do it.   Even in the worst of times, people still find something to laugh at, or find beauty.  One of my favorite DA moments was when Lelina started singing. 

[mopotter]

elearon1 wrote...

>>So, while I don't actually agree with you that this should be in a video game, I do want to commend you for keeping your cool when people, including myself, reacted badly, and for making your argument in such a reasoned way. I may not agree, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

>I've gotta echo this sentiment, however squicky I find the topic.

I appreciate the sentiment. We're not all going to see eye to eye on this stuff, but we owe it to one another to try and be civil about those disputes. That said, tempers flare and stuff happens - no hard feelings there.

That said and out of the way - what kind of more intense relationship ideas would people be comfortable with?

I like the hug/holding hands/ etc. idea, though I think something like that came up earlier in the thread. (or perhaps a thread like this) When not dealing with traumatizing horrors I would like LIs to behave as though they are actually closer to the pc ... checking on how they are doing after tough decisions, difficult moral choices, that sort of thing. (I said this part before, so won't repeat it much here)

What about a relationship that starts out as a "friends with benefits" and potentially becomes something more ... or not? Or have someone actually try to seduce your LI away from you while you're off on adventures and he(or she) is left behind? (assuming you had a romance with someone who wasn't in your party) There might not necessarily even be a case where the person leaves you unless you behave disinterested or the like - but there would be the drama of "is she going to leave me!?".

For that matter, I wouldn't mind having a relationship with someone who is actually not part of my party, but remains in a town or whatnot that I visit a great deal. Perhaps how often you visit could effect the quality of your relationship?

Other, less traumatizing ideas?

for what's it's worth, I like all of your post and attitude also.  

Friends with benefits ahh what memories.  That could bring in some interesting confrontations especially if the friend either wants more or as you mentioned finds someone else.  This would be nice, and I like the idea of having a love interest in a town, with maybe their continuing love depending on how often you make it back there.   

[Krytheos]

mopotter wrote...

elearon1 wrote...

I'm not suggesting anyone take away your options - I'm suggesting giving you more options by making these things possible. Just like any of the relationship material, you have to initiate the relationship - you are not forced into any of them. If you want the sappy romance, go for it, but there should be the potential for deeper storylines there for those who want them.

I'm all for as many options as possible, but if they included the abuse or stalking, I really mean it.  I want to be able to kill them.  
 I also agree that you should not be forced into any of the love relationships and that has happened accidentally in past games.  But unless you have the little gizmo someone suggested checking if you want romance rather than just friendship, accidents will happen and I want to be able to shoot, stab or break the neck of any male or female character who is abusive or stalks.  

I don't find romance "sappy" unless it's in a chick flick, which I don't usually go to see.   But I love movies like Blade Runner, Indiana Jones, Serenity, The mummy,  The One, Kiss of the Dragon, Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven, Laura Croft,  Lords of the Ring-all 3, Star Wars 4,5,6 and so on.  Most of these had some romance included, some more than others and all of them had an ending that installed a hope in the future.  

I'm not looking for a sappy romance.  I'm looking for a deep story that includes the elements of love and friendship where I can play as female or male and finish the game with at least one - we survived this, we are together and we can have a good future  - ending.   

 BioWare does this better than anyone out there.  

Honestly, I whole heartedly agree; there needs to be at least a definitive happy ending, even in a dark fantasy game. And yes, if there are stalkers, you should be able to kill them; that goes without saying. I have had my fair share of stalkers, and while I agree with putting them in the game in a well-done, unforced manner, it still is fairly traumitizing.

But this is a dark fantasy, and I expected a little bit darker things from it; the inspiration BioWare takes from A Song of Ice and Fire is, quite literally, a harsh world. Sometimes even worse, depending on who you are. So far, from what I've seen of DA: O it is a dark fantasy, and not all fantasies have escapism in them.

I know I sound like a broken record on this already, but if you really want to know what BioWare took inspiration from, read A song of Ice and Fire. Warning: It is a depressing series, and it is quite dark. Oh so quite dark. Personally, I expect DA 2 to amp it up in the 'dark fantasy' era, including with the romances, though I myself don' hope they amp it up to extremes.

The only thing I can say that I will honestly object to is, uh well. I'll just call it the taboo 'r' word. Yeah, most probably know what I'm talking about, and yes it did happen in DA: O, though off-screen thankfully. And during the City Elf Origin, well. Let's just say that if Soris has not been there, **** would've been so much more different, and that's one of the reasons why I think my City Elf I always portrayed as saying Soris was the real hero, because without him...*shudder.* 

Again though, I agree with the minotaur (sorry, can't remember your name when I'm posting. XD )  on dark themed things, and agree with the AI (again, names. xD ) in both respects. If there are dark theme's, allow people to avoid them, or if it is unavoidable due to a storytelling bit, then make it so the PC can screw that person up badly. Wouldn't mind a cinematic of my PC tearing into someone's face with a spear at all, though I doubt they'll go heavily into this route.

Also, setting the tone for the game should also be partially based on the character's decisions throughout the game; perhaps not DA2, but a future installment perhaps sets the tone, or perhaps DA2 will be the one to include that, who knows? Like, recruiting certain NPCs causes the party interactions to be different than say other NPCs.

Say, for instance, if this impacted in NWN2. Say you had a choice of Casavir and Bishop. You choose Casavir, the party interactions are, for the most part, light-hearted sometimes, mostly good, and overall, nothing is really lost; there are some disagreements, and there are conflicts and fights, but nothing dark. Then say you chose Bishop, who is, by all means, a jerk-off. This causes the interactions to be darker; and no you wouldn't be forced to take one over the other. Taking both of them however, will result in a LOT, say, conflict, particularly amongst those two.

Another example; say you have obligatory boyscout character; for the sake of difference, let us say it is female, and a warrior, and an elf, in your party, and you come across an unrepetant, evil human character that is joinable; the Elf and the Human are bitterly at each other's throats for the longest time during the short interactions you have with unrepetant evil; later on, you have the choice to recruit him, and if you DO, this pisses the Elven off immensley, and she, from then on, tries to show you up; trip you. Possibly fight a LOT with the human, who is, say, a coy player of mind games.

This leads to a darker game, whereas rejecting him would lead to a lighter game. Yes, it would be difficult to implement. An easier way is to set the tone during the characters 'Origin', even; a certain choice, like taking Vaughn's offer, leads to a darker game (which it kind of DID in my game.), which involves Vaughn, Shianni, and you. Now, enhancing this on a world scale would be DIFFICULT as all hell, but it would be possible.

Again, those are just suggestions; personally, my wishlist for romances include the following: 
An Ozai-type of romanceable character, who is unrepetantly evil.
An Elven Female Warrior for once.
A dwarven male, dammit, that's serious, and not Oghren-like at all.
An elven male who is possibly a mage, but not a rogue; possibly crazy, possibly apostate, or just a good, nice mage, who got thrown into ****land.
A qunari male who isn't stoic all the time, because while Sten was awesome, the opposite of Sten in a qunari would make for an interesting character, and romancable.

Also, hardening/softening, both needs to be possibilities for characters.

For instance: Hardening an evil, unrepetant and ambitious bastard literally means having a negative outcome. There will be no positive outcome, and if you are romancing him, prepare to be blown out of the water when you actually see what he's capable of; also make it possible at this point if you abadon the romance, for the unrepetant evil character to actually start trying to screw up who you might be trying to get with. Obstacles, one of them could be a former romanced character who you hardened and found to be INCREDIBLY impossibly unlikable, but still interesting as a character.

Contrasting that, softening the evil character has a positive outcome; he will still be somewhat evil, but he will be far more receptive to your chances to redeem him, or to turn him over to the good side, BUT NOT LAWFUL STUPID. Something like Chaotic Good, if we're going alignment-wars here, or Lawful Evil. Someone like Artemis Entreri vs. someone like Ozai.

And hardening a soft character = positive outcome, usually. Perhaps hardening them makes them better at something; hardening Alistair and Leliana, for instance, those both had good outcomes. Softening, in contrast = negative, OR positive, depending on what response is given. The more soft they are, the more likely that if they are in power, they are to be a horrible ruler, like say Alistair, vs. a hardened Alistair.


That's just my cents, though, heh.

Also, on the Alistair Landsmeet discussion; try dumping him when you're an LI for Loghain. That crap is depressing. Seriously, in Awakening...uh; I won't be specific, but his tone towards the former Love Interest Warden is of UTMOST ANIMOSITY. And quite a bit of hate. So, uh, yeah. /hopefully did not spoil specifics, there.

Edit: This just came to mind; INCLUDE personality-appropiate sex-scenes if you include them at all. Like, the boyscout female elf gets a nice, sweet, loving scene; unrepetant evil character, gets the immediate feeling but not SHOWING of a fairly rough, brutal, but hot scene, or a serious type of character gets a serious-type of thing, where while it isn't FORMAL or anything, it is very much something they take extremely seriously, and it reflects that in the love scene. Also, fitting music for each individual scene if possible would be wonderful.

Seriously. You don't know how many times I would've loved for Alistair's love scene to be sweet, loving, and careful, with a somber, lighthearted background music, vs say Zevran's smexy, Latino-type of musical stylings, with an appropiate sex scene, or such. Would be wonderful. Time consuming, but wonderful.

Modifié par Krytheos, 15 juillet 2010 - 12:29 .

[mordy_was_here]

Krytheos wrote...

A qunari male who isn't stoic all the time, because while Sten was awesome, the opposite of Sten in a qunari would make for an interesting character, and romancable.

Ugh, yes.

I would say more, but it's early and that's as coherent as I can be on the subject.

[Jarcander]

kingkyle wrote...

i wonder how romances will work over a peroid of ten years

It could be something very interesting if your partner in crime changes based on your reactions and mannerism.

Will Hawke become a houseslave/housewife?

[Wynne]

CalJones wrote...

Actually I didn't mind Casavir but as
with KotOR II, Obsidian did a very half-arsed job with the romances in
general. Elanee was no better, in that regard - and of course Neeshka
and Bishop's romances didn't make the final build so there are hints,
but no real romance. (At least Gann and Safiya fare a bit better in
MotB).

But yes, I'd vote for a more badass romance interest. Not
necessarily an evil character, as such, but women love a bad boy and
Bioware haven't been very good at giving us that. Up until ME2 they've
all been rather sensitive nice guys (even Alistair falls into that
category, though he's more complex), which is OK, but I'd rather bang a
Canderous than a Carth.

Yeah, that's the odd thing about Obsidian--they seemed to forget what KotOR2 might have taught them (that more people liked Atton and Mira than the more servile goody-goody characters!) and just made Casavir and Elanee as bland as they could. They were less offensive, less spicy nerf versions of Anomen and Jaheira, really. Frustrating, because we know they can do better! And I think far more people liked Neeshka and Bishop anyway; the romance mods should prove that. (There's one with flirtation with Neeshka and a full romance with Bishop; I enjoyed the latter's dialogue, but sadly the voice was distractingly awful and I had a bugged endgame.) 

The funny thing is, I'm not really even about "bad boys" exactly... I like nice guys better. But real nice guys (vs. guys who act nice) don't all come in the same flavor. Some of them have to be coaxed out of their shell. A lot of them have been burned, badly, and are angry about it, and highly self-protective. They're bitter and extremely slow to trust, but don't necessarily show their harsh side. Some put it out there, some hide it with jokes or silence, others are incredibly cynical and sarcastic... I admit, I have a soft spot for those. It's not so much the "badness", so to speak; it's more the fact that they've suffered and haven't completely resolved the suffering; it's like a broken bone that healed a bit twisted. As a psych student, I have a strong Florence-Nightingale-of-the-Soul instinct going on. I don't want to be someone's mother or savior--but I love to be the one to help them open up their heart again, learn to trust again, even if it's just as a friend (I loved befriending Morrigan; that was simply awesome.) I enjoy being the one to guard the things people tell me, so that they can always feel safe to talk to me. I love being perceptive, being the one to notice others' qualities and make those instinctive guesses which cause them to ask, "how did you know?" or to say the things that make them say, "I never thought of it that way."

Feeling that I understood Bishop on my first playthrough... feeling that I had the outlet to really express the fact that I got him, at least until the endgame when it all narrowed to a point... that was priceless. Hell, it's very much like the Morrigan romance in spirit, even--except with her, you can read between the lines, see what her mother did to her, and help her understand that life doesn't have to be as ugly and cold as her mother made it seem, because at least this way she has those memories. That kind of depth, darkness, and poignance is invaluable.

I would love to see that happen with a male NPC, even if it ended badly... but better yet, I'd like to choose whether my Hawke is the type who would see the tragic ending coming and do everything possible to avert it or not. If the narrative places that decision in my hands, then I will feel rewarded; if it forces me to be naive and just let the character betray me because he's broken (Bishop-style) without having the chance to see it coming, then I will feel cheated. And if it comes down to it, I'd rather be forced to be awesome than stupid.

Well, I guess in the end, it amounts to the same thing for most of us--overly goody-goody characters are boring, whereas tragic heroes and sympathetic anti-heroes are way more realistic and interesting. While Loghain wasn't my thing, I can totally understand the appeal, and I would love to see a personality with that sort of dark-chocolate complexity end up as a male NPC with whom you can begin a romance.

DanteCousland wrote...



Personally no
Nudity...but no Underwear. Like make everything shadowed and make it
romantic...like Mass Effect.

My feelings exactly--I would love that. Nudity is a bit much, but underwear looks tacky and kills the mood of the scene. There is absolutely nothing sexy OR romantic about underwear sex. Also, the randomness wasn't exactly thrilling. It looked like you basically did it 7 times in different ways and then they threw together some random snippets from all of that; there was no real sense of progression to it, and thus no sense of a driving force behind the narrative.

Er, well, that sounds vaguely wrong, but what I mean is, you didn't get the sense of tension between the characters coming to a head....

Aaaand that also sounds vaguely wrong. Okay, seriously--what I was trying to say is, you go through that sequence and you have a conversation afterwards--but you're in full armor standing in front of the campfire for the entire party! That was lame. The camera should've avoided displaying the underwear-covered parts, if they were afraid of GTA-style media antics should they place nude models in the game, and you should've had some conversation afterward in each other's arms, wearing no more than underwear or better yet, not showing those parts. Shadowing them out somehow or keeping the camera above those areas.

I'm sure there were potential issues, like clipping... but I'd rather see minor graphical glitches, or strategically placed trees, or blankets covering the characters, than watch two people supposedly having sex in their small clothes, and having the supposedly romantic aftermath conversation wearing clothing and steel with weapons strapped to your backs in front of everyone. Ugh. no sense of privacy or intimacy, really. Would've been worse to have nothing, to have the screen go black and then snap back to normal conversation, but to really make the experience what it could be, I hope this time they make it feel as if you stole off together to be with one another and that you truly have a time of closeness, in which you linger rather than getting entirely dressed and armed before even speaking again after the act.

mopotter wrote...

I will continue to love BioWare and enjoy their games.  But this was just wrong.  There were 4 backgrounds and in one of the endings he should have listened to his 100% love interest just as much as he would a friend.  He goes off and gets drunk and disappears instead of being sensible.  He does not love you (in this situation) no matter what he may say.

I fully agree. While it was all very dramatic and emotional, in a Joss Whedon happily bulldozering the most beloved relationships and characters kind of way which I love and hate at the same time, by now I can see only two options to believe: 

1. Alistair truly was just about sex, confusing it for love. He subconsciously desired the player, but couldn't separate emotions from lust/friendship, couldn't allow himself any thoughts in his head that weren't those of an immature teenager with his first real crush. He's just a boy who doesn't really care for her beyond shallow, adolescent-level attachment, and is so blind, selfish, and irresponsible that his "love", his "duty", and even the blood in his veins mean instantly nothing to him in the face of someone contradicting what he wants to do, even though it's precisely the opposite of what Duncan would have done. In which case, he hates you for being like the mentor he is trying to avenge. Which makes no sense. But I would have liked to say that--"You hate me for doing what Duncan would've done? Why did you love him for being like that and hate me for being like that? Would you throw away a crucial resource, a defender of Ferelden, just for your own selfish stupid illogical impractical belief?" He seems to know how nonsensical it is, yet not be able to change his feelings--but what really kills me is, he sticks with it to the bitter end of his existence. Until the end text, I kept hoping he would come back later and ask for my forgiveness. I imagined a tearful reunion and forgiveness. I couldn't believe he really left things that way forever. That's just unforgivable pettiness on his part.

2. They tried to make the endings equally dramatic for everyone, with everyone being forced to make hard choices, and Alistair was written accordingly so that the endings would feel resonant and dramatic, which I can understand.

Or maybe it's even both of the above, I don't know. In either case, I don't see why "People are only looking out for themselves" is a good option for changing his entire outlook on life. It's too simple an answer and was not very satisfying as influencing someone goes. It was just so binary. But then, I think DA was limited by the sheer amount of possibilities, which is part of why I like the choices they're making for DA2.

It's not even that I find him unrealistic--Alistair, that is--what I found unrealistic were the player options (not having an option that could make him see how freaking insanely hypocritical and how much a traitor to Duncan he's being). The epilogue was a bit dodgy, but then, after acting so hatefully and being a traitor to everything Duncan believed in, I can certainly see him burying himself in drink and never coming back. Yeah, the root of it all goes back to the PC in DAO being a really weak excuse for a person due to the sheer amount of difference between the backgrounds, which makes me delighted all over again that Hawke will be Hawke. This time the devs are thinking from a perspective that will probably not allow such things to happen in the future.

Even if everything in the endgame still had to turn out exactly the same as it did, I would have been able to accept it all so much better had I the chance to make the impassioned arguments (or at least a reasonable facsimile with a whole lot fewer swear words and words altogether) that I wanted to make to get him to stay.

Krytheos wrote...

Incest,
...
Stalker-- there are
harmless ones out there, but even more less harmless ones; if
implemented and done -well- and tastefully so as to not appear overtly
weird; it was done in the Mage origin with Cullen. It is not-so-subtly
hinted that he was always 'heavily' in love with the Female Mage, but
frustrated ultimately due to his job as a Templar. Again, tastefully
done, could be implemented well.

Jealous lover/adultery --
...
the abusive
thing

Incest is just squicky, and I don't ever want to see that. There's nowhere much to go with it anyways. "Oooh, we love each other, but our children would be defective... will we or won't we?" and it becomes disgusting shame, a ruined platonic relationship and weird feelings. No thanks. I'm not afraid of it and I don't find it to be "dark" in any way, just gross. Not as gross as if you could have a relationship with Dog, but still.

A stalker, like Cullen--I am all there. Call me a scarlet woman, but someone who has unresolved longings for me and unreasonable expectations about how a human being should behave (i.e. "you must be a virgin and never marry your entire life no matter how your loins burn and your heart aches because the Chantry--I mean the Maker wills it so!!!") is somebody I'd like to interact with. You could tease him, seduce him, or treat him gently and try to get him to see how unreasonable those standards are, and it could all end up in different ways. With the first, if you did it consistently enough long-term, he might even try to fight you--and then it might end up in hate sex or a duel to the death, depending on whether you infuriated him past his breaking point or made him want you despite hating you. With the second, he could end up in shame and self-loathing and trying to punish himself, having your fun with him once but cutting off any avenues to a future with him. With the third, maybe he would truly fall for you. Any of those outcomes would be interesting, and entirely invited by the player (since you're not forced to tease him, so if he goes a bit mad from that, it would be your own doing.) That's the kind of dark and edgy idea I could learn to like, someone truly in the middle whom you can either tear apart to expose his character flaws without convincing him of anything, or try to make whole by picking apart those overly rigid beliefs, allowing him to be with you due to a change of ideals rather than merely overcoming his self-control.

The jealous lover/adultery thing--this also sounds very good to me. But you should be able to see it coming, you know? Either you do the cheating, or the person who does the cheating should be someone who would remind you of someone you know who actually cheated on someone (i.e. a rogue at heart and someone you didn't fully get to know before getting involved with them.) It should be one of those things that astute players can easily see coming, and they just decide their Hawke (or whomever, if in a future game) is too swept away to notice the signs.

The abuse thing--if the PC is the victim, then since the PC is generally the biggest badass in the story, they'd have to give you the option to, after the first slap, smack your proverbial biatch up. It would have to be mutually abusive if long-term, I'm saying--a violent relationship or one that ends fast with you telling the NPC, "Get out of my party. You hit me once, we're done. If you do not leave, I will KILL YOU." (Because seriously, in real life, that relationship would in all likelihood be very swiftly over--same with cheating, except under really really really extenuating circumstances like mind-control, being forcefully injected with drugs, or something else not under the person's control.) All in all, I think it's better left alone or kept decidedly mild.

Hot-button topics, in other words, are generally a bad idea--abortion is best avoided in a game for instance--but interpersonal drama, if not too soap-opera in quality, can be quite interesting in how it affects the characters and story.

[billbong]

Are romances confirmed for DA2?

[triggerhappy456]

billbong wrote...

Are romances confirmed for DA2?

they couldn't really get rid of them when they are such a major part of other bioware games

[SirOccam]

billbong wrote...

Are romances confirmed for DA2?

Indirectly. I think it was Mary who said something about not giving info about who the romance options are yet or something. That's probably not a good paraphrase but it sounded a lot like there WERE romances but nothing ABOUT them confirmed.

Of course there is the chance that there are none, but I highly doubt that.

Edit: I found the post.

"And you are totally not going to trick me into talking about what the romance options are yet. Don't even try"

Modifié par SirOccam, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:11 .

[RPGmom28]

I support the Zaeed type for romance option that was mentioned above. Zaeed's personal vendettas aside, he's confident, masculine, and direct. And I appreciate that.

[Loc'n'lol]

Has Bioware ever made a game that didn't include any romances at all ? Except Awakening, I mean...