My two--or three-cents:
Regarding...Alistair: First of all, Wynne, apt moniker.
Much like the Wynne of DA:O, you present very thoughtful discussion points. I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said about Alistair. For me, in many ways, his character does truly remain consistent to what it is...and that is what is maddening about it. He never grows. Never learns to truly distinguish between personal battles and the larger objective picture. Even his idea of love is quite shallow for me...revolving around viewing the PC in a fashion mimicking idolatry or infatuation more than love. One quick brief example--and I know we've all gone over this a million times perhaps--but his conversation after having slept with the PC. She asks about the future and he can't stomach it. Alistair's love, for me, was the first crush love, which has intensity no doubt, blind devastating intensity, but blows out as well, like a candle burnt to its last waxy remainders. Not real or substantial. In many ways, odd as it may be, I felt Alistair may perhaps grow to be a better husband to Anora after having broken up with the PC than he ever could have to the PC. And I'll leave it at that to prevent the Alistair debate from continuing to linger.
Bad Boys/Evil LI:I agree that it's about time we got a truly "evil" LI. Or even one so bent on his point of view, like Loghain, that it becomes near impossible for him (or her) to see any other. I would love to see a strong conflict of methodology and ideology rising between two characters who love one another where this seriously affects the way situations are tackled. For instance, let's say a Loghain-esque character wanted desperately to quell uprisings from the banns while your PC wants to save Redcliffe. Even respect for one another, alongside affection, would not necessarily stop a strong NPC from going their way. Yes, we got some of this in DA:O; I won't say this isn't there at all. I would like to see it taken to the next level. Definitely would have liked to have a Loghain romance in DA:O, but that is another story. (Shoutout to phaonica: Am eagerly awaiting the mod!)
I'll say that I did find it very hard to play as a truly evil character in DA:O. No member of the party seemed truly evil; even Morrigan was warm hearted in her way though she tried to cover it up. There were no consistent rewards of being evil. One small thing: When one of my PCs threatened the priest to get Sten, Morrigan was quite giddy about it, saying: Now we threaten priests! What fun! That was great. We need more of that. At least the ability to be able to play both the "paladin" walkthrough and "evil" walkthoughs equally--and everything in between--if we wish. A good example of the "everything in between" in my opinion was Fallout 2. You can be truly ambiguous in your morality and that can be a good thing. You can double cross mafia houses and no one demands explanations. You can sleep with prostitutes and get addicted to Jet. And still be an essentially good person. Would like a playthrough like that, would like a LI like that. Unapologetic. Morally ambiguous. And before anyone says Zevran, let's admit it, he was really a sweet guy just hurt and conditioned by the life he was put through, putting on a flirtatious and morally ambiguous front to justify his life both to others and himself. Wynne--the in-game Wynne, not our posting friend, heh--really did have him figured out from the start.
Since I brought up Zevran, I may as well say that I saw a lot of good things in his romance that I'll mention, apart from just "fangirling" about his romance (which I loved, btw). The writers took some positive steps in making the LI concerned about our PC. He was the only one who did things occasionally like try to tell you a funny poem because "you just look so sad all the time," thinking to cheer you up. When I got that dialog, I literally, in my world outside the game, felt the weight of all my PC had gone through both grow heavier and lighter. Heavier, because it was acknowledged. It became more real. I felt the pain of what my PC had gone through and her sadness. Lighter, also because it was acknowledged. Because it felt shared. This definitely needs to be done more with romances. The Alistair romance, for example, notoriously lacked any care on his part for the PC's suffering. "Oh, your best friend got ravished by a spoilt nobleman? Your family and you lived in utter poverty under human rule?...Yeah. But Duncan just died. So...can we concentrate on that?" You can vary the above sentence and make it applicable to whichever origin you like; the bottom line is the same. Your dear NPC friends, the ones you care so much about, often seem quite callous because they don't say anything about you.
Bottom line: More evil/unapologetically morally ambiguous LI desired, and as others have stated before, have more dialog from LIs about the PC as well.
Dwarven LoveMy PC and I, for our part, fell for Gorim Saelac, quite desperately. One of things that tore me apart--and I was truly surprised by how visceral my real life reaction was, trust me--was not being able to love Gorim when we were reunited. I would even have settled for a corny, "I am too injured to travel with you, my lady. And your quest too important to foresake. But...if you truly wish it and believe me worthy...I shall wait here for you...and if we are both blessed by the Ancestors to survive the Blight, I should be honored to marry you."
Sigh.
Ahem.
Or Leske. Was shocked when he betrayed me, though I understood it later. I certainly found him quite charming.
I even found Oghren charming. Maybe I'm a very strange person. But I liked his rough and tough, drinking, laughing, borderline inappropriateness. Reminds me of a stereotypical Irishman, and I like 'em. I would totally have taken Felsi's place, hah.
Bottom line? If DA:2 wants to include a dwarven male romance, I'm all, all for it.
Couple Concluding Thoughts
I'm sure I've babbled on long enough. Will just say a few last things.
1) Love the idea of a non-party romantic interest. Would be nice to fall in love with someone who, though loves you, cannot join you on your quest. I'll use Bann Teagan as an example, even though I'm not as enamored of him as many. I think it would be an interesting dynamic to have someone with other responsibilities. The game could have side quests with that person and make you worry about that person's safety when things in that particular area grow troublesome. Maybe that person even has to move and send you a messenger telling you the place they are in now. You could take time out, when possible, to try and visit them and there should be new dialogs when you visit them.
2)Not completely on-topic but I loved the ability to have this stronghold in Baldur's Gate 2 where you had to complete quests and solve disputes. I think it creates a nice little arena outside of the main quest places you go where you solve disputes of a different sort. This could even tie in with the first idea; perhaps a potential LI resides there. Or it could be more political and involve more issues like that, a la Dwarven Noble origin, or from what I hear, Awakening.
3)I'd like more "interference" from a LI or NPC's past. Though I understand this is hard to do, I think it added a lot when someone like Marjolaine resurfaced from Leli's past or Taliesin showed up. Don't know if it's just me, but I'd like more of this. Much more. Would be interesting to really feel the weight of a LI's past and have it be something we both have to constantly battle as a team, aside from the larger quest. Though not repetitive enough to become boring (i.e. Not just have different Crows show up hunting Zev! Variety, variety.) Or even from our PC's past.
4)Now this may go against the grain for many, but I would genuinely appreciate a nice cutscene at the end for a "happy after" ending. Maybe that is sappy, maybe I'll have a lot of people berate me for wanting this. But for instance, I would have liked a nice long cutscene showing Zev and my PC living somewhere, training Grey Wardens, laughing into the sunshine, that sort of thing. Perhaps the Morrigan fans could have actually gotten a cutscene of her walking into the mountains, looking at the ring, I don't know. But I felt as though my happy ever after was really snatched away. I think the end of a game is one of its most important features...and would love to see more attention paid to that.
5)A bit of repetition from my Dwarven Love section, but someone like Gorim. Even if not a dwarf, that personality. A thorough gentleman but not awkward or a coward. I felt strength in Gorim's character, a deep inner strength that in many ways guided the PC, even when it seemed to follow. Which was a dynamic that fascinated me. I felt like the PC could rely on Gorim for true advice, and I really liked that feature. I enjoyed having the ability to ask Gorim to clarify things that I didn't understand; it deepened the "we are a team" feeling for me. The emotion that comes from understood togetherness is richer for me than any overt declarations of love. I think it would be wonderful if the writers considered what they did with Gorim and try to use its positive features in any future LIs.
Sorry if I've been less than coherent or organized in my post, guys! Wonderful thread, found so much interesting about it that I just had to comment.
~Pele
Modifié par Pele1, 16 juillet 2010 - 06:11 .
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a sociopath, © useless even to the Wardens, and (d) the dark little voice whispering in Loghain's ear. Intentions matter a lot. Can you see Howe setting aside all his plans like Loghain does? For the greater good? 
