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[iTomes]

oliveer95 wrote...

make an add:on for nude sex... for us who think clothed sex is stupid..

download a mod.... plenty of them out ther

[mopotter]

oliveer95 wrote...

make an add:on for nude sex... for us who think clothed sex is stupid..

Only reason to get the PC version.

[the_one_54321]

I think this is all on topic because it has to do with what's good or bad to see in a romance.

Wynne wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You view it as petty. Try to see it from the other side of the coin. What if someone you were deeply in love with did
something that thoroughly betrayed your feelings?

*sigh* As a psych student, seeing from others' perspectives is something I have almost based my life around, actually--particularly in a case like this. I do not need to try to see it from the other side. I saw his side, immediately and instantly, and just as swiftly disagreed with it. Passionately. My Brosca was very level-headed and could set aside her personal feelings, however strong, for the survival of Thedas. That's a pretty easy decision. If the archdemon wins, everybody loses, period, and you don't know what's going to make the difference, so you take everything you can get whether it's shiny or rusty.

The problem is, regardless of his perspective or his feelings of betrayal, Alistair was not the one betrayed. That is an objective point of view. Alistair went entirely with his emotions whereas the player character acted like a true Warden because somebody had to. As you yourself said in that post, "he leaves her as a result of her doing the right thing". That is why Alistair is petty.

I agree with you completely from the objective stand point. You should have noted at the very end where I said that, and the end of the story perhaps it just turns out that Alistair was not the man you wanted him to be.
What Alistair does is definitively wrong. Or perhaps "unwise" or "not optimal" would be better words to describe it with. So having read the comments above, I agree with you, except that I think the presentation of it and the writing was excellent. Alistair comes across as human and very flawed.

(no, I don't like him and I'm not defending him, I'm defneding the writing )

Wynne wrote...
Simply put, you need to refresh your memory about Duncan before you make that kind of statement, because it's pure nonsense. What we know of Duncan is that he is a Warden's Warden. If the subject is useful and at all qualified, the Wardens take anyone no matter WHAT they have done, full stop, period, hands DOWN. The Origins taught us that; Duncan explicitly states it. Talent is all that matters, and that's something Loghain has plenty of. So yes, you and I and everyone know twice as much as we need to about Duncan to be able to fairly say, "Duncan would spare Loghain. Because to hell with personal feelings; being a Warden means stopping the Blight, taking every hand we can get to do so, and not spurning perfectly good candidates."

No, here I really disagree. You have a single speech from Duncan and a coupld of candidates that die in the attempt to join. That's all. That's not nearly enough to judge the character or decision making of a person. I'm not saying Duncan wouldn't have done the opposite of Alistair, I'm saying that 30 minutes of exposition is no way enough qualification to make that judgement on him in the first place. Clearly, you took what Duncan said as concrete and definitive of his character, and I guess there's nothing wrong with that since that's all we ever see of his character, but in no way does it eliminate the potential for variability or some forms of character weakness. After all, every single character you encounter in this game has some degree (sometimes a large degee) of character weakness. Just take Alistair as a prime example.

Wynne wrote...
Well, frankly, having read your post, I feel like you knee-jerk defended Alistair a bit and didn't really pay attention to the point of mine. I understand, though; Alistair is easy to love despite his flaws. You seemed to think I hadn't thought very hard, but I've actually thought about this well more than a little over the last seven months or so and I know what I think quite well. In fact, all that "He was emotional! He felt betrayed!" stuff is hardly a revelation to anyone who's played the game a single time--his feelings are hardly subtle. It is clear very early on that  he loved Duncan as a father, which is the only reason I didn't despise him completely for his actions, because that is sympathetic and understandable to a degree--but if you listen carefully, someone who says "I won't call him brother! " is not acting solely on grief.

Actually, I'm not defending Alistair, I'm defending the writing. I already wrote that above, I think. So, I don't think we're disagree on nearly as much as we originally thought we did.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 16 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[ladyofpayne]

Gay- gnome for male PC or may be GG with male NPC in party.

[DrSpoonbender]

Pele1,



I found your post to be well thought out and articulate.



I like the idea of having the option to have a blooming relationship with an unabashed evil NPC. I would want this relationship only to work if the player support or reinforce the ambitions of their lover, and not being able to cajole them into some sudden change in heart.



While not exactly evil Qara was an exceptionally haughty team member who knew that she was simply better then everyone, if you continued to stroke her ego and profess sentiment in line her world view you gain her loyalty.



I like prefer your idea of returning to the stronghold (and possibly serving as a home to your LI). The camp environment was static and was too spacious and felt unnatural to me.

[alaska the 1st]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Simply put, you need to refresh your memory about Duncan before you make that kind of statement, because it's pure nonsense. What we know of Duncan is that he is a Warden's Warden. If the subject is useful and at all qualified, the Wardens take anyone no matter WHAT they have done, full stop, period, hands DOWN. The Origins taught us that; Duncan explicitly states it. Talent is all that matters, and that's something Loghain has plenty of. So yes, you and I and everyone know twice as much as we need to about Duncan to be able to fairly say, "Duncan would spare Loghain. Because to hell with personal feelings; being a Warden means stopping the Blight, taking every hand we can get to do so, and not spurning perfectly good candidates."

No, here I really disagree. You have a single speech from Duncan and a coupld of candidates that die in the attempt to join. That's all. That's not nearly enough to judge the character or decision making of a person. I'm not saying Duncan wouldn't have done the opposite of Alistair, I'm saying that 30 minutes of exposition is no way enough qualification to make that judgement on him in the first place. Clearly, you took what Duncan said as concrete and definitive of his character, and I guess there's nothing wrong with that since that's all we ever see of his character, but in no way does it eliminate the potential for variability or some forms of character weakness. After all, every single character you encounter in this game has some degree (sometimes a large degee) of character weakness. Just take Alistair as a prime example.

Well I when a warden is choosen to be a commander is choosen because of their ability to put aside emotion for duty. Riordan shows this as we've seen but as well Commander Genevieve did it when she conscripted Duncan. Duncan had murdered a grey warden who was as well betrothed to Genevieve, but she personally went to his cell before he was executed and gave him the offer.

[mopotter]

alaska the 1st wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Simply put, you need to refresh your memory about Duncan before you make that kind of statement, because it's pure nonsense. What we know of Duncan is that he is a Warden's Warden. If the subject is useful and at all qualified, the Wardens take anyone no matter WHAT they have done, full stop, period, hands DOWN. The Origins taught us that; Duncan explicitly states it. Talent is all that matters, and that's something Loghain has plenty of. So yes, you and I and everyone know twice as much as we need to about Duncan to be able to fairly say, "Duncan would spare Loghain. Because to hell with personal feelings; being a Warden means stopping the Blight, taking every hand we can get to do so, and not spurning perfectly good candidates."

No, here I really disagree. You have a single speech from Duncan and a coupld of candidates that die in the attempt to join. That's all. That's not nearly enough to judge the character or decision making of a person. I'm not saying Duncan wouldn't have done the opposite of Alistair, I'm saying that 30 minutes of exposition is no way enough qualification to make that judgement on him in the first place. Clearly, you took what Duncan said as concrete and definitive of his character, and I guess there's nothing wrong with that since that's all we ever see of his character, but in no way does it eliminate the potential for variability or some forms of character weakness. After all, every single character you encounter in this game has some degree (sometimes a large degee) of character weakness. Just take Alistair as a prime example.

Well I when a warden is choosen to be a commander is choosen because of their ability to put aside emotion for duty. Riordan shows this as we've seen but as well Commander Genevieve did it when she conscripted Duncan. Duncan had murdered a grey warden who was as well betrothed to Genevieve, but she personally went to his cell before he was executed and gave him the offer.

Yes, this is the advantage of reading the books.  Great books.  Looking for a new one.

[the_one_54321]

mopotter wrote...

alaska the 1st wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Simply put, you need to refresh your memory about Duncan before you make that kind of statement, because it's pure nonsense. What we know of Duncan is that he is a Warden's Warden. If the subject is useful and at all qualified, the Wardens take anyone no matter WHAT they have done, full stop, period, hands DOWN. The Origins taught us that; Duncan explicitly states it. Talent is all that matters, and that's something Loghain has plenty of. So yes, you and I and everyone know twice as much as we need to about Duncan to be able to fairly say, "Duncan would spare Loghain. Because to hell with personal feelings; being a Warden means stopping the Blight, taking every hand we can get to do so, and not spurning perfectly good candidates."

No, here I really disagree. You have a single speech from Duncan and a coupld of candidates that die in the attempt to join. That's all. That's not nearly enough to judge the character or decision making of a person. I'm not saying Duncan wouldn't have done the opposite of Alistair, I'm saying that 30 minutes of exposition is no way enough qualification to make that judgement on him in the first place. Clearly, you took what Duncan said as concrete and definitive of his character, and I guess there's nothing wrong with that since that's all we ever see of his character, but in no way does it eliminate the potential for variability or some forms of character weakness. After all, every single character you encounter in this game has some degree (sometimes a large degee) of character weakness. Just take Alistair as a prime example.

Well I when a warden is choosen to be a commander is choosen because of their ability to put aside emotion for duty. Riordan shows this as we've seen but as well Commander Genevieve did it when she conscripted Duncan. Duncan had murdered a grey warden who was as well betrothed to Genevieve, but she personally went to his cell before he was executed and gave him the offer.

Yes, this is the advantage of reading the books.  Great books.  Looking for a new one.

I didn't read any of the books, so that much is new to me.

[Tirigon]

Wardens do anything to stop the Blight, yes, and imo that means a Warden who doesn´t execute Loghain is an idiot.

Loghain has fought you and outlawed the Wardens, and he´s also a sworn enemy of them. You have NO reason except of metagaming to assume he won´t betray / backstab you and thus ruin all your efforts to end the blight.

[Lord of War]

Tirigon wrote...

Wardens do anything to stop the Blight, yes, and imo that means a Warden who doesn´t execute Loghain is an idiot.
Loghain has fought you and outlawed the Wardens, and he´s also a sworn enemy of them. You have NO reason except of metagaming to assume he won´t betray / backstab you and thus ruin all your efforts to end the blight.

What? Why would he betray you at that point, especially after the Joining? Does he want the Archdemon to win? Alistair wasn't perfect.

[Anakin22]

Romance, I like to see how my choices of words effect the partner. Plus, certain Charms to effect works on the partner. If like you have low Charms, no good- I forgot what ability that works for...Charisma....oh but I like to have Romance in Dragon Age 2

[errant_knight]

Minus ten and counting on this becoming yet another Alistair vs. Loghain thread. Death, taxes, and Alistair vs. Loghain....

[Saibh]

errant_knight wrote...

Minus ten and counting on this becoming yet another Alistair vs. Loghain thread. Death, taxes, and Alistair vs. Loghain....

 I hope your comment diffuses this. Right now.

[Tirigon]

Cyrahzax wrote...

What? Why would he betray you at that point, especially after the Joining? Does he want the Archdemon to win? Alistair wasn't perfect.

Alistair isn´t perfect, yes, but Loghain has shown he believes Warden´s are unnnecessary to end a Blight (and rightfully so, even you don´t know the thing with the Archdemon´s soul travelling to the nearest Darkspawn yet, he CAN´T know at all).
I find it unbelievable that he would totally change this attitude only because you defeated him in Duel, and if I was in Loghain´s place I would poison or otherwise get rid of the warden as soon as possible.

[Jimmy Fury]

soooooooooooooo



other romances eh? Who's for it?

What about Flemeth? (unless she possesses your sister then no no no no no no no ew.)

GI's new hub update... which actually hasn't updated yet... but it's on GI.com AH ok anyway yeah it's wallpapers and confirms that Dragon Girl is Flemeth.

So thoughts on flemeth as a romance option?

Too creepy? Too... suicidal?



(note that this post has nothing to do with Alistair or Loghain ON PURPOSE. yay!)

[errant_knight]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

soooooooooooooo

other romances eh? Who's for it?
What about Flemeth? (unless she possesses your sister then no no no no no no no ew.)
GI's new hub update... which actually hasn't updated yet... but it's on GI.com AH ok anyway yeah it's wallpapers and confirms that Dragon Girl is Flemeth.
So thoughts on flemeth as a romance option?
Too creepy? Too... suicidal?

Yes to both.

Jimmy Fury wrote...
(note that this post has nothing to do with Alistair or Loghain ON PURPOSE. yay!)

*Salutes Jimmy Fury*

[Tamyn]

I'd like another male elf, but since we're forced to play a human, and the elves are short... *sob*

I want a qunari. A pretty one.

Modifié par Tamyn, 17 juillet 2010 - 05:18 .

[Avaflame]

I want a Dragon Age Atton, damnit! One that you can actually romance, rather than just be hinted at. I think they did really well for the most part with the DA:O romances, except what some other people have stated about the dialogue after the climax. I tried to spread out the dialogue throughout the game, but eventually the only way you can avoid it is by not going to camp. After you bed them, all you got was 'What can I do for you?' and all you could say was 'Nevermind'.



This might not be pertaining to romances exactly, but I'd like to see dialogue options appear based on progress in the game as a whole, not just things that have been said previously. If that makes sense. I don't want to be able to leave Lothering and end up exploring all the dialogue trees fully in one go.



There might be some slight exaggeration in this post, but I remain unashamed.

[Fangirl17]

Oh you guys are back on topic? lol I was going to be like ok guys back on topic! but it seems the topic has been redeemed.

[Jimbe2693]

Hope they include a female elf this time  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]
and I need some bromance too; subtle love between two guys

[Tirigon]

Flemeth as LI won´t happen. It´s too close to bestiality.



On the other hand, the same could be said about Morrigan....





Well, anyways, I prefer to have Flemeth as a thing you can kill (hopefully TOTALLY this time).

[mopotter]

errant_knight wrote...

Minus ten and counting on this becoming yet another Alistair vs. Loghain thread. Death, taxes, and Alistair vs. Loghain....

I think it's because they were both so well written.  And with Alistair, at least, he brings out strong emotions whether you like the character are don't.   

[mopotter]

Anakin22 wrote...

Romance, I like to see how my choices of words effect the partner. Plus, certain Charms to effect works on the partner. If like you have low Charms, no good- I forgot what ability that works for...Charisma....oh but I like to have Romance in Dragon Age 2

I agree.  I want what I say to the LI to mean something, and I would like either - you can influence the romance to become evil or good; or if they do not agree with your outlook (good/evil) then they refuse to join the party.  

[Naughty Bear]

I am going to have a romance with myself.



Oh Naughty Bear, your such a dirty dog he he!



Ho ho! So are you, you little minx!



Woah, you have such admirable endurance Naughty!



Your hips are very supportive for you women! Let me pop in my heatsink and you can pull my trigger.

[mopotter]

Tirigon wrote...

Cyrahzax wrote...

What? Why would he betray you at that point, especially after the Joining? Does he want the Archdemon to win? Alistair wasn't perfect.

Alistair isn´t perfect, yes, but Loghain has shown he believes Warden´s are unnnecessary to end a Blight (and rightfully so, even you don´t know the thing with the Archdemon´s soul travelling to the nearest Darkspawn yet, he CAN´T know at all).
I find it unbelievable that he would totally change this attitude only because you defeated him in Duel, and if I was in Loghain´s place I would poison or otherwise get rid of the warden as soon as possible.

It's all perspective.  If I were Alistair I'd put my love interest before my hate.  If I were Loghain I'd put my love of country before my distrust or hate of the wardens.  By the time you can recruit him, he's seen the blight, he's seen the darkspawn and he knows the warden's have the best chance of ending it.  My Loghain would join in a heartbeat if it would keep his country safe.