159 réponses à ce sujet

[Altima Darkspells]

Addai67 wrote...

Even though the OP had false information...

In the OP's defense, the only place you'll ever hear that Hawke will be playable in either gender will be on the forums and *maybe* off-handedly mention in a demo playthrough that no one will pay particular interest in.

Don't believe me?  Go look it up for ME (probably ME2).  They never mention it, at all.  I imagine most of the buyers were blatantly surprised that either gender was available.

It's starting to seem to me that BioWare feels shame at the thought of including a female PC.  They simply don't want anyone to know!

Which is a shame, because I feel that they cater to the wimminz crowd a lot better.  We certainly get the best characters to interact with.

[Saibh]

Addai67 wrote...

I hated the butch persona her delivery forced me into.  She sounds wooden to me, too.  It sounds like with the DA2 system, they are going to try to offer different inflections based on the icon you choose, but still, the delivery will be the VA's and not your own.

Honestly, well, the icon bit helps sort out a bit of a problem with DA's dialogue system: I particularly remember an instance telling Alistair when he asked if I liked gentlemen, the answer was "depends on the gentleman"...and he reacts as if I said something bad. I was like " You. Alistair, you are the gentleman."

Honestly, with voice acting...if it's good, than I'm pleased to have it, but if it's bad I wish it weren't there at all. They're taking a big risk, so I hope it pays off.

Addai67 wrote...
I don't think my PCs are me either.  Really, I don't need therapy.    However, I can self-identify enough that there is little dissonance in immersion.  It's the difference between telling a story from a 1st person perspective, where you really can get an inside feeling for a character's voice, versus telling it at more of a remove.  Comparing it to when I played a male PC in DAO, I enjoyed Morrigan's romance and found it interesting, but didn't find it nearly as absorbing as Alistair's or Zevran's.  I was identifying with Morrigan, not my PC.  Having some voice actor deliver the lines... eww... I don't know, it's hard to explain.

Okay, I know exactly what you mean. I will always play a female five times before I ever even touch a male. And I tend to make my female characters good because I feel intensely more guilty doing bad things as a girl than as a guy, since I identify with my female characters strongly--that's what makes BioWare so great. DA's Warden is easier to identify with than Shepard because you can place yourself in her shoes easier. I felt like I was controlling Shepard; I felt like I was creating the Warden.

Still, I see where having a VA is a good thing, and I see where it's a bad thing. I honestly don't want to Dragon Effect, I really don't. I'm sure it would be good, but the reasons I like the DA franchise are seperate from the reasons I like ME. And, ultimately, DA is my favorite.

[tybbiesniffer]

Addai67 wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Leliana and Wynne, after my first pt or so, were like nails on a chalkboard. 

I'm
not generally bothered by female VO's myself but I could not stand
Leliana's voice.  To be fair, though, there is NOTHING I like about
Leliana so my reaction to the voice could simpy be a reaction to the
character.  I keep playing rogues just so I don't have to drag her
around with me.

If the female Hawke sounds anything like that, I will happily play a male character....with a beard.

Lelihater-fistbump.  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png 

It's
not just Leliana's voice for me either, or Wynne's, but not liking
femShep's voice meant I felt cornered into playing a male Shepard,
which made me feel more distant from my character, adding to why the
game disappointed overall.  And I probably would play Leliana's Song
but for the sheer pain of listening to Leliana and Marjolaine talk.

I
also suspect I would not be able to play a DA romance with another
woman's voice delivering the romance lines.    Besides the fact that
there is so much room for error in the delivery of such lines, it
squicks me out somehow.

<gasp>
Two of us!  We should form a club.  I thought Leliana's Song would make me like her more; it didn't.

I tried the ME2 demo but I just couldn't get past the whole I-click-on-this- and-she-says-what? thing.  I found the female voice much better than the male.

Modifié par tybbiesniffer, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:39 .

[Ghrelt]

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

[joriandrake]

Ellythe wrote...

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

finally a girl who understands why most guys play a female main character

[Gaxhung]

Ellythe wrote...

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

Hawt

[HighMoon]

Ellythe wrote...

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

Here here! I'm female myself, and when I was playing through DAO as my male Dalish elf I couldn't help but stare down at his gorgeous, well-shaped thighs every once in a while. Good lord! *fans self*

Modifié par Golden-Rose, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:20 .

[Deviija]

See, marketing Hawke with an iconic male character is totally not confusing at all!

Modifié par Deviija, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[Querne]

I rarely buy games where I can´t choose gender and would not buy this if it wasn´t possible.
What works for males works otherwise for females too.

I understand the marketing issues, but showing only a rough-tough guy during the campaign and not even advertising you can change gender will be not very attractive to most women, what means, that the female audience won´t widen. What means, that they will be not considered during the next campaign..
At least not very hard to understand, I think.
I´m sure more women would be interested in the game if they knew about the "social component" besides slaying. At least the ones I presented the game to WERE interested.

Yes, I admit that Alistair was a potent pro argument.

Modifié par Querne, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:11 .

[joriandrake]

Deviija wrote...


See, marketing Hawke with an iconic male character is totally not confusing at all!

you just didn't do that

[syllogi]

Saibh wrote...

I was referring to TeenZombie, sorry... In any case, TeenZombie is saying--it seems to me--that the projection of a female protagonist on a cover is what reduced sales, and my point being I didn't even know that was a playable character, and not...oh, crap, what's his name...the guy on the cover's romance interest (a la Dawn Star).

Regardless, I also mentioned KOTOR, which blatantly shows Bastila on the cover and can be construed to be the actual protagonist if you don't know any better, both Mass Effect games: one has Ashley, one has Miranda, and DA has Morrigan as the only character you can see with a face. These four games are the best BioWare has in terms of sales, all of which blatantly feature a female.

As for not having a femHawke on the cover? I think it's sort of confusing to have both versions of a protagonist on the cover, especially if they have a default face, as Shepard does. I believe ME2 has femShep on the back talking to Wrex, however.

Here's the link to Chris Priestly *inferring* that having a female character on the boxart for Jade Empire hurt sales:  http://social.biowar...52255/4#3055547.  I think that's ridiculous, personally.

But, as I've said repeatedly, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE COVER ART.  I am just worried that Fem Hawke will be completely excluded from advertising for DA2, the way Fem Shepard was excluded from marketing for ME2, and Chris's remarks in that linked thread did not ease my fears.

I do not want to see Mass Effect's marketing strategy to become a habit for Bioware, so I'll keep bringing it up.  Will it make or break my purchase?  No, but if there is even a small chance that showing off Lady Hawke could bring more female gamers to DA2, how could it be a bad thing?

Modifié par TeenZombie, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:14 .

[Grommash94]

Meh, having a so-called "hot" female character would actually help sales imo. Most MMOs do it, DA had Morrigan, etc. 

It isn't like it doesn't appeal to male players.

Modifié par Grommash94, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:16 .

[joriandrake]

Grommash94 wrote...

Meh, having a so-called "hot" female character would actually help sales imo. Most MMOs do it, DA had Morrigan, etc. 

It isn't like it doesn't appeal to male players.

it also worked with Tomb Raider

[Saibh]

TeenZombie wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I was referring to TeenZombie, sorry... In any case, TeenZombie is saying--it seems to me--that the projection of a female protagonist on a cover is what reduced sales, and my point being I didn't even know that was a playable character, and not...oh, crap, what's his name...the guy on the cover's romance interest (a la Dawn Star).

Regardless, I also mentioned KOTOR, which blatantly shows Bastila on the cover and can be construed to be the actual protagonist if you don't know any better, both Mass Effect games: one has Ashley, one has Miranda, and DA has Morrigan as the only character you can see with a face. These four games are the best BioWare has in terms of sales, all of which blatantly feature a female.

As for not having a femHawke on the cover? I think it's sort of confusing to have both versions of a protagonist on the cover, especially if they have a default face, as Shepard does. I believe ME2 has femShep on the back talking to Wrex, however.

Here's the link to Chris Priestly *inferring* that having a female character on the boxart for Jade Empire hurt sales:  http://social.biowar...52255/4#3055547.  I think that's ridiculous, personally.

But, as I've said repeatedly, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE COVER ART.  I am just worried that Fem Hawke will be completely excluded from advertising for DA2, the way Fem Shepard was excluded from marketing for ME2, and Chris's remarks in that linked thread did not ease my fears.

I do not want to see Mass Effect's marketing strategy to become a habit for Bioware, so I'll keep bringing it up.  Will it make or break my purchase?  No, but if there is even a small chance that showing off Lady Hawke could bring more female gamers to DA2, how could it be a bad thing?

I see--I'm sorry.

Honestly, having only Shepard be marketed as male presents a clear, concise view on who you play as, who represents the Mass Effect series. If you see him, you know what game they're talking about. Having two alternating protagonists is detrimental from marketing points of view: see that Morrigan is the main face of BioWare, and not the many pictures of the Origins. Obviously they're going to choose a male. I'd like to see some more acknowledgement of females--you know, an exclusive, just-female Hawke trailer or something--but if it's not going to happen, it doesn't detract anything for me.

[Querne]

As I already know about the game it doesn´t detract much for me either. But I don´t think that marketing with Ser Bruce Willis only will help to make the game more accesible to female audience and so the circle is complete.

[Addai]

Ellythe wrote...

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

Ha, but that is what Alistair is for.  My male Cousland was nice to look at, but what had me fanning myself was Ken Lally's voice coming out of him every once in awhile. 

Out of some 500 hours of DAO play, however, that was my only male PC.  I really prefer a female PC, though not when voiced.

Thank God Bethesda has still kept the unvoiced PC.

[okiness]

Gaxhung wrote...

Ellythe wrote...

I (as a woman) generally prefer to play a male character. I am one of those people who if I have to stare at someone's rear end for dozens of hours, it had better be one I can appreciate.

Hawt

I got to admit, hawt indeed...hehe 

Same here! Yay for controlling Alistair instead of myself! xD

or you know...bisexuality...fun times.

Modifié par okiness, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:59 .

[Dick Delaware]

Saibh wrote...
It's...just sort of a vibe I get from playing both sides. MaleShep has all of these side, sort-of love interests, and all of them are female. FemShep may get to sleep with the Consort, or be hit on by Shiala and Kelly, but it feels more like male fanservice than anything else. Gianni is pure-male Shep. Not to mention how there's almost no mention that FemShep exists outside of the game. There's nothing there just for girls, for the most part--no one acknowledges that Shepard is female in anything other than romances or pronouns. Well, except that one guy in Flux and the recruiter for Garrus' recruit mission.

Like I said, it's an overall vibe from me, and hard to put down. Whereas there are plenty of open acknowledgements of the Warden's gender all over the place.

EDIT: To add to that, it's clear that animations are done for men, and not women, since many of them--particularly when Shepard looks down or the camera looks up, they look very awkward on her smaller jaw and face. I remember when I first played as a guy after playing FemShep I was startled to see that the previously awkward looking animations, were, in fact, completely normal looking and much more natural/powerful on a male.

Ah, now I understand. Makes sense. Clearly, the whole point of the asari race was to make something to appeal to guys (and not particularly smart ones at that), hot alien space babes. I liked Illium and the whole Ardat-Yakshi thing, but I wouldn't mind if they suddenly went extinct (Reapers did it!) so that I could bathe in a river of Liara fan tears.

I'm going on an ME2 run as FemShep now and I know what you mean. MaleShep usually has some girl around flirting with him, but there isn't something equivalent that acknowledges Shepard as a woman like that, but there is in Dragon Age. In Origins, I remember playing through Redcliffe and talking to Murdoch with my Elven Female Mage, and him responding with "Huh, I never knew they made women Grey Wardens". Thought it was a nice touch. There were plenty of moments like this.

And yeah, I'm with you on the animations. It just looks weird to see her running like that sometimes.

I never really thought about it until you mentioned it. Thanks for pointing it out. All your points were valid and they're a lot more relevant than complaints that I occasionally hear such as "Planescape: Torment sucks as an RPG because you have to play as a male character!" when the game was meant to be played as a man and slapping in a female option would have been cheap.

[Dick Delaware]

Addai67 wrote...
Ha, but that is what Alistair is for.  My male Cousland was nice to look at, but what had me fanning myself was Ken Lally's voice coming out of him every once in awhile. 

Out of some 500 hours of DAO play, however, that was my only male PC.  I really prefer a female PC, though not when voiced.

Thank God Bethesda has still kept the unvoiced PC.

It's probably for the  best, because the when they manage to put in voiceover, it is generally awful. I really wish they would let someone else pen their dialogue or that they didn't do VO in-house, because the results have been bad. This seems to be the case with Obsidian making New Vegas.

[Addai]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Ha, but that is what Alistair is for.  My male Cousland was nice to look at, but what had me fanning myself was Ken Lally's voice coming out of him every once in awhile. 

Out of some 500 hours of DAO play, however, that was my only male PC.  I really prefer a female PC, though not when voiced.

Thank God Bethesda has still kept the unvoiced PC.

It's probably for the  best, because the when they manage to put in voiceover, it is generally awful. I really wish they would let someone else pen their dialogue or that they didn't do VO in-house, because the results have been bad. This seems to be the case with Obsidian making New Vegas.

The voice acting in DAO is much higher quality and quantity than Bethesda to be sure, but if this is all we're going to get as players who prefer the unvoiced, "stilted," oh-so-uncinematic unvoiced PC- then we like it or lump it.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:32 .

[Addai]

Dick Delaware wrote...

I never really thought about it until you mentioned it. Thanks for pointing it out. All your points were valid and they're a lot more relevant than complaints that I occasionally hear such as "Planescape: Torment sucks as an RPG because you have to play as a male character!" when the game was meant to be played as a man and slapping in a female option would have been cheap.

Now that others have talked about it, I do think it was not just the VO but a general sense that Shepard was meant to be a guy.  And I get the same sense thus far about Hawke.  Even the name sounds butch, versus Cousland, Amell, Surana, Mahariel....

[Altima Darkspells]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Saibh wrote...
It's...just sort of a vibe I get from playing both sides. MaleShep has all of these side, sort-of love interests, and all of them are female. FemShep may get to sleep with the Consort, or be hit on by Shiala and Kelly, but it feels more like male fanservice than anything else. Gianni is pure-male Shep. Not to mention how there's almost no mention that FemShep exists outside of the game. There's nothing there just for girls, for the most part--no one acknowledges that Shepard is female in anything other than romances or pronouns. Well, except that one guy in Flux and the recruiter for Garrus' recruit mission.

Like I said, it's an overall vibe from me, and hard to put down. Whereas there are plenty of open acknowledgements of the Warden's gender all over the place.

EDIT: To add to that, it's clear that animations are done for men, and not women, since many of them--particularly when Shepard looks down or the camera looks up, they look very awkward on her smaller jaw and face. I remember when I first played as a guy after playing FemShep I was startled to see that the previously awkward looking animations, were, in fact, completely normal looking and much more natural/powerful on a male.

Ah, now I understand. Makes sense. Clearly, the whole point of the asari race was to make something to appeal to guys (and not particularly smart ones at that), hot alien space babes. I liked Illium and the whole Ardat-Yakshi thing, but I wouldn't mind if they suddenly went extinct (Reapers did it!) so that I could bathe in a river of Liara fan tears.

I'm going on an ME2 run as FemShep now and I know what you mean. MaleShep usually has some girl around flirting with him, but there isn't something equivalent that acknowledges Shepard as a woman like that, but there is in Dragon Age. In Origins, I remember playing through Redcliffe and talking to Murdoch with my Elven Female Mage, and him responding with "Huh, I never knew they made women Grey Wardens". Thought it was a nice touch. There were plenty of moments like this.

And yeah, I'm with you on the animations. It just looks weird to see her running like that sometimes.

I never really thought about it until you mentioned it. Thanks for pointing it out. All your points were valid and they're a lot more relevant than complaints that I occasionally hear such as "Planescape: Torment sucks as an RPG because you have to play as a male character!" when the game was meant to be played as a man and slapping in a female option would have been cheap.

Not to mention Cullen.  Or Vaughn.  Or Gorim.  Teaghan hits on the Warden, too, I believe.  Howe says the female Human Noble is trying to be a man (which is hilarious in hindsight).  Sten has troubles seperating gender from duty. 

Lots and lots of little moments like that.

Would've been even better if they had kept that certain Morrigan scene in the game that got put up as a mini-comic some time ago.  Would've really helped with Morrigan visualizing the Warden as a 'sister'.  It also humanized the **** out of her, too.

[Dick Delaware]

Addai67 wrote...
Now that others have talked about it, I do think it was not just the VO but a general sense that Shepard was meant to be a guy.  And I get the same sense thus far about Hawke.  Even the name sounds butch, versus Cousland, Amell, Surana, Mahariel....

The game might be good, I'm going to withhold judgement, but the name Hawke sounds pretty retarded. Just screams this 80's action hero thing. I mean, it would be hilarious if it were meant to be tongue in cheek like a Schwartzennegger movie (in Commando, his character was named John Matrix), but for a game that's trying to present itself as gritty mature grimdark seriousbusiness (admittedly, not something Origins did well at either), it's very silly. I dunno, it seems like something nobody who isn't a boy under the age of thirteen would find cool.

Might be worth it if it means if there's a romance where my LI will say "I love the Hawke"

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:07 .

[Riona45]

Dick Delaware wrote...
In Origins, I remember playing through Redcliffe and talking to Murdoch with my Elven Female Mage, and him responding with "Huh, I never knew they made women Grey Wardens". Thought it was a nice touch. There were plenty of moments like this.

I liked being able to shoot back "I'm a mage, too."

I agree, one thing I loved about DA:O was how often it acknowledged my gender.  Again, this is something a lot of guys (though not all, obviously!) probably won't get, but as a female player, that was indeed a very nice touch.

[AlanC9]

Hawke is a a genuine Olde English surname. If it sounds silly, that's something you're bringing to it.



Which doesn't mean that Bio was necessarily wise to pick that particular name, of course.