159 réponses à ce sujet

[Narreneth]

This is way off topic, but it's funny to watch this thread jump up and down the thread list because reading it followed by the thread topic below it from the index usually produces humorous results. Earlier today it was "Any females worried about... Giant Feckin' Spiders"

[Riona45]

Narreneth wrote...

This is way off topic, but it's funny to watch this thread jump up and down the thread list because reading it followed by the thread topic below it from the index usually produces humorous results. Earlier today it was "Any females worried about... Giant Feckin' Spiders"

Heh!

[Saibh]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

Depends on what Avaflame means, right? If he means Shepard is male because maleShep is cooler, more badass, and better than FemShep...yeaaah.

If he means that Shepard is essentially always male, regardless of the body or voiceactor, pretty much. I believe I've already discussed these reasons in this thread. It's not a good thing, but it's something a lot of women after playing the game came away with.

[Avaflame]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

Umm.. Oops? That does sound pretty bad. I meant as in the character was conceptualised for the series as a male, which makes it hard for me to envision him as a female. I'll keep it in mind to not be so general and careless from now on. Maybe I should back away.

Riona45 wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

As such, it's hard to envision Hawke as a female - because you just know that that's not the person the writers/developers had in mind.

I'd prefer to reserve judgment on this.  Whatever one thinks of Shepard, the developers have said more than once that Hawke is a less defined character than Shepard.  Right now, they know everything about the game and we know almost nothing, so for now I'm deferring to their opinion.

That makes sense. I know I'm probably coming off as a total douche and probably should have kept my opinions to myself, but they were just my thoughts at the time. Which are subject to change as new information comes out, of course. I just meant that as Hawke is fixed somewhat, even if not as much as Shephard, I will be less interested in a female playthrough because I personally will feel as if it will of no consequence in  the greater picture. Kind of like playing a female revan or male exile in the KOTOR series.

[Saibh]

Avaflame wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

Umm.. Oops? That does sound pretty bad. I meant as in the character was conceptualised for the series as a male, which makes it hard for me to envision him as a female. I'll keep it in mind to not be so general and careless from now on. Maybe I should back away.

Riona45 wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

As such, it's hard to envision Hawke as a female - because you just know that that's not the person the writers/developers had in mind.

I'd prefer to reserve judgment on this.  Whatever one thinks of Shepard, the developers have said more than once that Hawke is a less defined character than Shepard.  Right now, they know everything about the game and we know almost nothing, so for now I'm deferring to their opinion.

That makes sense. I know I'm probably coming off as a total douche and probably should have kept my opinions to myself, but they were just my thoughts at the time. Which are subject to change as new information comes out, of course. I just meant that as Hawke is fixed somewhat, even if not as much as Shephard, I will be less interested in a female playthrough because I personally will feel as if it will of no consequence in  the greater picture. Kind of like playing a female revan or male exile in the KOTOR series.

The thing about male Revan and female Exile being canon happened after the fact--it's pretty neutral either way...actually, I would say KOTOR II--which isn't BioWare, obviously--feels more on the man's side because of the woefully cut romances.

[Avaflame]

I know, but I couldn't think of a better example. In Origins I never felt I was taking an alternative route, and I'm just apprehensive I guess that I won't feel the same in DA2. Still crazy excited either way though and will definitely give femHawke a fair go, just maybe not first this time around.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I'll be maining Lady Hawke for sure. I had a boatload of fun as female Warden. So yeah.

[joriandrake]

Saibh wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

Depends on what Avaflame means, right? If he means Shepard is male because maleShep is cooler, more badass, and better than FemShep...yeaaah.

If he means that Shepard is essentially always male, regardless of the body or voiceactor, pretty much. I believe I've already discussed these reasons in this thread. It's not a good thing, but it's something a lot of women after playing the game came away with.

to be frank, there is a Mass Effect movie maybe out in some years, I am sure the main character has already be picked for it and I am also sure its a guy



I don't like the Shepard movie idea to be honest, it makes all our Shepards, not just female ones lose "legitimacy", not to mention ingame choices might become canonized too

[Elhanan]

Mary Kirby wrote....

We've never done separate dialogue trees for genders. Unless you mean something differently than we do by "dialogue trees." Branches, maybe. Hawke will be able to react differently according to gender at times, much as the Warden could in Origins. We are generally not assuming the player is a marine.

Techless One here.... *DAO SPOILER*

I recently discovered that the female Human Noble Origin has an additional dialogue with Agatha; the cook. I was not disappointed though; found this to be entertaining, and motivated me to try other Origins using another POV.

Or is that something different than the droid being ref. here?

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

Not really.  Many of "the girls" have been saying the exact same thing.  Hence why I'd rather encounter Shepard in a movie where I could gawk at him for a few hours and move on, versus in a roleplaying game where I have to get inside his meathead.  Ugh.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

I recently discovered that the female Human Noble Origin has an additional dialogue with Agatha; the cook. I was not disappointed though; found this to be entertaining, and motivated me to try other Origins using another POV.

Or is that something different than the droid being ref. here?

What additional dialogue?  Are you talking about Nan?

[Dick Delaware]

Addai67 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

XDD Yeah.

Leave it to men to cultivate an endless fascination with their dangly bits.

I was thinking about this discussion and the other one about same-sex relationships, that despite the fact we'd be able to customize, having a more preconceived, iconic character in and of itself shoulders out the "minority" conception of the character.  There were very few origins where I felt it was more appropriate to play as a male versus a female.  If anything, it seemed more dramatic to play city elf as a female, and more interesting to play a Dalish elf and dwarf noble as a female because of the origin romances with Tamlen and Gorim.  (edit: although as male DN you had the noble hunters etc.)

Your mileage may vary, but I always felt that the Dwarven Noble path was more suited to a male character. In fact, I thought out of all the origins, it was the most 'male', for lack of a better term. First of all, there's the opportunity for a threesome with two groupies, a stock male fantasy. Normally I find that sh*t kinda annoying in games, but given the context of my character being a well-loved prince, it really made me feel like a baller. More importantly, I think that the whole politicking sibling-rivalry angle works better with three brothers, which is really sort of a classic setup we see in books like The Brothers Karamazov and countless myths. It seems like the dialogue with Trian flows better as a man, because it feels like the two of you are sizing each other up - it's a real pissing contest.

But yeah, I'm with you that the Dalish Elf/City Elf Origins worked better as a female character. Especially City Elf - getting kidnapped makes it feel more personal. 

[Elhanan]

* DAO SPOILER*

Addai67 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I recently discovered that the female Human Noble Origin has an additional dialogue with Agatha; the cook. I was not disappointed though; found this to be entertaining, and motivated me to try other Origins using another POV.

Or is that something different than the droid being ref. here?

What additional dialogue?  Are you talking about Nan?

I believe so. The cook tells the moral tale of the Dog to a female Cousland; not the males.

[errant_knight]

Until DA:O, I usually played males, because I found the depiction of females so intensely irritating. It was a very pleasant surprise to play a female character that offered such a wide range of roleplaying possibilities--and didn't move like a streetwalker.

[errant_knight]

Elhanan wrote...

* DAO SPOILER*

Addai67 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I recently discovered that the female Human Noble Origin has an additional dialogue with Agatha; the cook. I was not disappointed though; found this to be entertaining, and motivated me to try other Origins using another POV.

Or is that something different than the droid being ref. here?

What additional dialogue?  Are you talking about Nan?

I believe so. The cook tells the moral tale of the Dog to a female Cousland; not the males.

Really? I didn't know that. I always get her to tell me the story. It really makes her feel like my old nanny, and makes things that much more sad later.

[TMZuk]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Avaflame wrote...

You CAN be female, but we all know that Shephard is male.

That's a really loaded statement that you just made there. In the "Girl Thread", no less. I'd start backing away now.

It's not a loaded statement, it is a fact and more's the shame.

It's a shame, because, if you HAVE to have voice acting, then Jennifer Hale does a far better job than Mark Meer, who is as inspiring as a piece of dead wood, IMO. But in ME2, Bioware didn't even bother making a differnt set of animations. The way Femshep moves is horrible. And no, I don't want her to move like a top model, I want her to move as a strong, powerful woman, as opposed to a strong, powerful man. 

Hawke is so obviously marketed and merchandised as a male. Everything about HIM, suggest that he is a man, and even if you choose the female gender, he'll still be a man, just as Femshep. It irritates me no end, and it is one of the consequences of Bioware's bizarre descicion, to focus on the protagonist rather than the events.

Modifié par TMZuk, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Saibh]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

XDD Yeah.

Leave it to men to cultivate an endless fascination with their dangly bits.

I was thinking about this discussion and the other one about same-sex relationships, that despite the fact we'd be able to customize, having a more preconceived, iconic character in and of itself shoulders out the "minority" conception of the character.  There were very few origins where I felt it was more appropriate to play as a male versus a female.  If anything, it seemed more dramatic to play city elf as a female, and more interesting to play a Dalish elf and dwarf noble as a female because of the origin romances with Tamlen and Gorim.  (edit: although as male DN you had the noble hunters etc.)

Your mileage may vary, but I always felt that the Dwarven Noble path was more suited to a male character. In fact, I thought out of all the origins, it was the most 'male', for lack of a better term. First of all, there's the opportunity for a threesome with two groupies, a stock male fantasy. Normally I find that sh*t kinda annoying in games, but given the context of my character being a well-loved prince, it really made me feel like a baller. More importantly, I think that the whole politicking sibling-rivalry angle works better with three brothers, which is really sort of a classic setup we see in books like The Brothers Karamazov and countless myths. It seems like the dialogue with Trian flows better as a man, because it feels like the two of you are sizing each other up - it's a real pissing contest.

But yeah, I'm with you that the Dalish Elf/City Elf Origins worked better as a female character. Especially City Elf - getting kidnapped makes it feel more personal. 

And then Neloros dying!! And then getting his ring off of his corpse...that one was really horribly painful as a female--which is a plus!

And I agree, Dwarf Noble works better as a male, for me. While I would say that Gorim's romance goes in the most depth out of all the romances in the Origins, the fact that you can have a baby later on with what's-her-hooker-face is something. And of course, Denerim just made me hate Gorim, and I wasn't even allowed to go "Gorim, do you not realize I could have had bastard-prince boinking, like, five times over by now?! I was loyal dammit!"

I agree, though, that it was sort of amazing that some Origins were that different...while others really only have the slightest touches that make a world of difference (Mage Origin...). It's sad we won't get this for DAII, but I'm hoping that all of the other good things that will come out of this game is going to make up for it.

EDIT: And you get the dialogue in the Human Noble Origin for both males and females from Nan.

Modifié par Saibh, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:58 .

[In Exile]

Elhanan wrote...

* DAO SPOILER*

I believe so. The cook tells the moral tale of the Dog to a female Cousland; not the males.

You mean Hakaku? Male Couslands can get the story too. At least in my version of the PC game.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

I believe so. The cook tells the moral tale of the Dog to a female Cousland; not the males.

She tells Hohaku's story to a mCousland as well as female.

Anyway, I guess the strengths of DAO in regards to interactions that recognized you as a female Warden is credit to the writers and hopefully that credit will carry over to any new games.  I for one have few qualms about the abilities of the writers.  I'm just not sure the story they're going to tell is being presented in a form I would want to play as an RPG.  it sounds like something I'd rather watch in a movie or read in a novel.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I believe so. The cook tells the moral tale of the Dog to a female Cousland; not the males.

She tells Hohaku's story to a mCousland as well as female.

Anyway, I guess the strengths of DAO in regards to interactions that recognized you as a female Warden is credit to the writers and hopefully that credit will carry over to any new games.  I for one have few qualms about the abilities of the writers.  I'm just not sure the story they're going to tell is being presented in a form I would want to play as an RPG.  it sounds like something I'd rather watch in a movie or read in a novel.

Yes, the writing is the one part of the game about which I have complete confidence.

[Ghostjs]

Yes, we have all heard about the great beard of manliness, but can we have a purfect 80's mustache?

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[Elhanan]

*sigh* Well, me caught assuming again. I never saw that story until I played a female PC, which allowed quite a few brothers to get past it unheard.

[Dick Delaware]

errant_knight wrote...
Yes, the writing is the one part of the game about which I have complete confidence.

I'm not so sure. Personally, I've always felt the writing in BioWare games to be grossly overrated. It's OK, but the only reason people think it's so great is because standards in the video game industry are abysmal. In the RPG genre, if we're talking just writing, Obsidian, Troika, and Black Isle have done a better job in this regard.

Dragon Age is significantly better in this regard than most other BioWare games, but some improvements really need to be made. First, I think that the characters, while they have their well-written moments (Alistair at the Landsmeet) they sometimes succumb to pouring their emotions on the player right from the get-go. I think Alistair in particular suffers from this, and I found his goofy immaturity and lack of willingness to take responsibility didn't really mesh at all with him taking his duty of being a Grey Warden seriously. I liked the fact that he was naive (in fact, considering he's in an organization that's done a lot of shady things in the past, it's a nice contrast) but I found his childishness kind of annoying and out of place - dude, you drank a vial of darkspawn blood and have killed the bastards before, how could you possibly be afraid of leading? I thought it was just a convenient excuse to have the PC in charge.

I know that the writers are supposed to make the characters stand out from one another, but I'd like them to be a bit more down-to-earth and adult. My biggest complaint is that sometimes they'd act like whiny kids instead of real people with realistic motivations. Don't get me wrong, sometimes the motivations would make perfect sense - Alistair wants Loghain dead and will never be willing to have him as a Grey Warden because in his idealism, he sees being a Grey Warden as an honour, and won't tolerate standing with Loghain, no matter how practical it might be. I think it's irrational and I'd much rather have Loghain with us, but that's real passion. It's serious, it allows you to take Alistair seriously and is way more engaging than hearing him and Morrigan bicker like twelve year olds.

Look, I like companions. They add a lot - all I'm saying is I want more moments like that, with clear and well thought-out motivations, rather than having an angst battalion tailing me the whole game.

Second, the main plot itself and the whole darkspawn concept is just really bland. You're just  on a quest to kill the Dragon that's leading the orcs - not really that imaginative. A plot involving people, or demons, or anything you can reason with and understand would be better. Pretty much anything but darkspawn is OK.

Modifié par Dick Delaware, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:18 .

[Saibh]

Dick Delaware wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Yes, the writing is the one part of the game about which I have complete confidence.

I'm not so sure. Personally, I've always felt the writing in BioWare games to be grossly overrated. It's OK, but the only reason people think it's so great is because standards in the video game industry are abysmal. In the RPG genre, if we're talking just writing, Obsidian, Troika, and Black Isle have done a better job in this regard.

Dragon Age is significantly better in this regard than most other BioWare games, but some improvements really need to be made. First, I think that the characters, while they have their well-written moments (Alistair at the Landsmeet) they sometimes succumb to pouring their emotions on the player right from the get-go. I think Alistair in particular suffers from this, and I found his goofy immaturity and lack of willingness to take responsibility didn't really mesh at all with him taking his duty of being a Grey Warden seriously. I liked the fact that he was naive (in fact, considering he's in an organization that's done a lot of shady things in the past, it's a nice contrast) but I found his childishness kind of annoying and out of place - dude, you drank a vial of darkspawn blood and have killed the bastards before, how could you possibly be afraid of leading? I thought it was just a convenient excuse to have the PC in charge.

I know that the writers are supposed to make the characters stand out from one another, but I'd like them to be a bit more down-to-earth and adult. My biggest complaint is that sometimes they'd act like whiny kids instead of real people with realistic motivations. Don't get me wrong, sometimes the motivations would make perfect sense - Alistair wants Loghain dead and will never be willing to have him as a Grey Warden because in his idealism, he sees being a Grey Warden as an honour, and won't tolerate standing with Loghain, no matter how practical it might be. I think it's irrational and I'd much rather have Loghain with us, but that's real passion. It's serious, it allows you to take Alistair seriously and is way more engaging than hearing him and Morrigan bicker like twelve year olds.

Look, I like companions. They add a lot - all I'm saying is I want more moments like that, with clear and well thought-out motivations, rather than having an angst battalion tailing me the whole game.

Second, the main plot itself and the whole darkspawn concept is just really bland. You're just  on a quest to kill the Dragon that's leading the orcs - not really that imaginative. A plot involving people, or demons, or anything you can reason with and understand would be better. Pretty much anything but darkspawn is OK.

Hmm...all I'll say, is that I think you're missing the point. On the first and second point. Real people don't fit archetypes that easily. Real people surprise you. Alistair having a strong sense of duty while whining and acting like a child sometimes make absolute sense in regards to his character. And as for the second, the main storyline--go on a quest to destroy an ancient evil--is cliche, yes, but I always felt that the point of DA  was to build on old cliches, add things to them and make them real, instead of the tired-out old Tolkien cliches everyone's done again and again. If you don't feel that from what you've seen, I doubt I can convince you, yanno?