Aller au contenu

Photo

Hawke: The flaws of Voice Acting.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
156 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages
[We're all biased, so there will be bias in this post below but I'd like a discussion on the matter - you might be able to convince me otherwise]

There's been a lot of wide speculation about the main character in Dragon Age 2 being fully voiced instead of having the voices heard outside of dialogue like in Origins, threads are popping about how voicework makes the game more immersive and interesting. While I won't counter these points, they are personal opinions after all and I cannot disprove them, voice acting has too many flaws for it to just be thrown around as a good idea.

Many people are making a direct reference to how successful and amazing Mass Effect is, while I've personally enjoyed both games of the series heavily - they are by no means the same game. Commander Shepard is of the Normandy and is you're thrown into his life, you're railroaded on a single goal but you can decide how he handles each situation. Dragon Age on the other hand offers more variety to these, I'll explain later.

What's my opinion on the matter? If it wasn't obvious already, I disapprove of voice work because it'll ruin a lot of the roleplaying elements in the game. I'll be bashed for this, yet voice work makes the character feel less like myself and more like another character that I'm just playing. Playing Commander Shepard to me isn't as different as playing Chris Redfield in Resident Evil, his dialogue choices are obviously pre-chosen and you're just limited to how he'll react in the situation.

Voice Acting: Gameplay / Roleplaying.
Hypothetical scenario: You're walking past a beggar, he's begging for money.

Mass Effect
Mass Effect, with voice work, will be limited to a few lines of dialogue that will not be fully revealed to the player until it's chosen. The meaning of what you've chosen could be completely different than what you've assumed it would've been.

You're usually given three choices on how to respond, imagine these are the dialogue options:
Here you go.
What?
No.

It gives you a basic summary of what you should expect from the dialogue, the problem is with this is you'll never know what will happen in these scenarios. That simple "No" could lead you to punching the guy in the face and call him worthless, you're far too limited in your knowledge of the choice. You don't even know in what way that Shepard will respond , he might be snide or aggressive without you even wanting to do so.

Now for the Dragon Age version..

Dragon Age
I'm not saying that the Dragon Age system is perfect, many people will find themselves incapable of getting into their character without some sort of voice work involved. The difference is, those who can are given a lot more options and can easily roleplay more.

You're frequently given more than a handful of options, for this we're going to take 4 dialogue choices - barely more than the Mass Effect scenario:
You're going to have to try harder if you want my gold.
I'm a beggar like you, I just borrowed these clothes.
You'd walk away from me if you know what's good for you.
Here you go, sir.

You're given the option of picking multiple answers, none of them are hidden by limitations and you're clearly aware how you'll react to each one of the lines. You won't pull a punch out of thin air or threaten the man unless you chose that dialogue branch, you're moving into what you pick and there's no surprises from your end.

How does this help roleplaying? One might decide to play a sarcastic rogue who would pick the "I'm a beggar like you" choice, or they'd play an aggressive soldier who picks "You'd walk away from me" line. You're not forced into a mold where you either answer positively or negatively (or the 'middle' option that nobody takes), you created a personality for your character and can live it.

---

The dialogue required for the main character will end up costing very much for the company, ending up in less funds for content. One common complaint in Mass Effect 2 was that companions were lacking in dialogue, how much extra dialogue would they have had if the money from funding Meer and Hale went to them and you could talk to the characters in a 'real' conversation instead of relying on three simplifications of what'd you say?

The game, in my opinion, would easily be a lot more replayable if instead of listening to your main character say a line you just chosen - the companions would react to more instead, those extra lines of unvoiced dialogue can open a lot of possibilities with characters and allow you to explore more into their psych.


I'd continue on more, but I'm getting rather sick of typing. I might continue on this later.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 juillet 2010 - 10:36 .


#2
DarthValo81

DarthValo81
  • Members
  • 76 messages
I agree with your post. ME worked with a fully voiced PC because the game was designed for it. I believe 100% Dragon Age will be better without the full VO. Whats the real difference between being referred to as 'Hawke' or 'Warden'? I really don't want DA2 to go down the ME2 path. Leave DA DA and leave ME ME.

#3
Anathemic

Anathemic
  • Members
  • 2 361 messages
Agreed, with no VO, Dragon Age felt more immersive, when I say that I say that with the exact wording and the character respond to it exceptionally.

Mass Effect when I say something it still says it but to another whole degree, not putting it word for word but to what seems to fit in that scenario.

Plus I assume when VO is done in DA2 this will take away part if not alot of the potential for character interaction that we love in BioWare games

#4
BlackyBlack

BlackyBlack
  • Members
  • 656 messages
I disagree, voiced protagonist gives the character much more personality. However, one thing I hate about the ME dialogue system is that half the time what I choose and what Shepard actually says is completely different and I have to replay each dialogue a dozen times. I really hope there's full description of exactly what Hawke is going to say

#5
Vicious

Vicious
  • Members
  • 3 221 messages

I agree with your post. ME worked with a fully voiced PC because the game was designed for it.




This one will be to. You aren't creating *YOUR* character, you are stepping into the shoes of a premade character. Premade characters have names and voices, it's just the way things are.



Anyway one shouldn't ASSume that DA2's dialogue system will be at all similar to ME's system. It'll probably be very different, since Bioware is well aware of people's complaints.



So expect a hybrid DA1/ME system of spoken dialogue.



It's not all doom'n'gloom.

#6
Stalky24

Stalky24
  • Members
  • 423 messages
Anyone else loundly been reading your lines while playing your char, including characterical voice?

...im gonna miss that...



Im usually against VO, it didnt worked for me in ME. Only in Witcher, but I played czech voiced version, and man, that guy had true badass voice.

#7
element eater

element eater
  • Members
  • 1 326 messages
agreed VO is good for games like mass effect in a out and out rpg just doesnt work limits u far to much no matter how deep it will never feel like your character. not to mention if u dont like his voice it automaticly ruins the experiance and i can imagine that theres a good chance it will be annoying especialy when you play as differant classes

#8
TurtleTape

TurtleTape
  • Members
  • 390 messages
I only played each ME once through, probably because it was more limited when it really came to getting in character. Yeah, you had backgrounds, but they didn't do much of anything, and yeah, you could personalize and be male/female, but with the VO it was so hard.



DA, on the other hand, was very easy, as each character had a different voice in my head and it truly felt like my character.

#9
Lady Catastrophe

Lady Catastrophe
  • Members
  • 721 messages
I think unvoiced PC's are a lot more personal as (ignoring their lines during combat) you can pretty much imagine that they sound however you want them too.

Not only that,but both Fem and Male Shepard's voices make me want to tear my ears off.Hopefully if the DA2 PC is voiced,he/she won't have the same affect.

#10
term8

term8
  • Members
  • 127 messages
Nice post Dave of Canada, very well done. I completely agree with you on all accounts.. but, like 3d movies, i think voiced protagonists are in style, because it is less stressful on the imagination ha ha. I think i might just be a little insane... but i always heard the voice i wanted to come out of my wardens mouth in my head, and i was never disappointed with it ha.

#11
screwoffreg

screwoffreg
  • Members
  • 2 505 messages
Well if we are going to have voice actors they had better make them damn good. I want to see Jeremy Irons as male Hawke and a suitable British actress for female Hawke.

#12
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages
100% agree with OP. I don't want the character to have a preset personality. I want him to be *my* character, just like I want everyone to have *their own* characters.

#13
Malkavianqueen

Malkavianqueen
  • Members
  • 221 messages
I agree! I prefer the unvoiced character because you get more options and you get to imagine what they sound like...



I actually liked Mass Effect/2, but...Shepard felt so distant! It's like she wasn't even my character. The lack of dialogue (and knowing what you're actually going to fully say!), and the set voice kinda dampen the experience for me.



So I've been able to replay Dragon Age over and over and I've beaten Mass Effect 1 and 2...Once each.

#14
Blue_dodo

Blue_dodo
  • Members
  • 391 messages
I totally agree with this

I personally feel that games like baldurs gate,arcanum (you those great rpgs mad inbetween 1998-2002) had a perfect balance, there was some voice acting but mostly was text.



it was also easier to add more text since yoy simply had to open the the datat file edit it add script when and were it appears,trigger etc.



but with voicing it is way more complicated, you have to pay the guy to do the voice over (and with today high demand on top ranked actors this aint cheap) then put it in, if problems come by in that you have to change the line you then have to get to actor to come back and revoice the piece and you will probably have to wall out other potential solutions.



it also makes Modding more complicated

#15
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

DarthValo81 wrote...
Whats the real difference between being referred to as 'Hawke' or 'Warden'?


This wouldn't change anything, voice actor or not. Human Nobles are Cousland, you're even called a Cousland a few times, just think of it as exactly the same but instead of Warden it's Hawke due to the lack of other surnames available. You'll probably still give a first name.

#16
term8

term8
  • Members
  • 127 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

DarthValo81 wrote...
Whats the real difference between being referred to as 'Hawke' or 'Warden'?


This wouldn't change anything, voice actor or not. Human Nobles are Cousland, you're even called a Cousland a few times, just think of it as exactly the same but instead of Warden it's Hawke due to the lack of other surnames available. You'll probably still give a first name.


I don't like that hawke is going to be called by his last name throughout the game... in the military it works, ie. shepard, or if we are refferring to sports stars. but you really expect me to believe that in Thedas people only address hawke by his last name?? alistar, i think, didn't even have one... if he did i never heard it... or heard anyone call him by it??

#17
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

BlackyBlack wrote...

I disagree, voiced protagonist gives the character much more personality.


They flesh out one personality while barring the others. Regardless of what you want to be in Mass Effect, Shepard will always be Renegade / Paragon / Middle - there's no ground for anything, you can't have any lines that change Shepard's personality as it's present to the writer's ideas.

Dragon Age's character personality is given to you through the player, you could play a greedy hero, a master manipulator and such if you want - you'd just have to pick it through the dialogue options. Shepard is always a military hero, regardless of dialogue.

#18
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

term8 wrote...
I don't like that hawke is going to be called by his last name throughout the game... in the military it works, ie. shepard, or if we are refferring to sports stars. but you really expect me to believe that in Thedas people only address hawke by his last name??


He could be in the military, all we know so far is he's a refugee.

alistar, i think, didn't even have one... if he did i never heard it... or heard anyone call him by it??


Off-topic but..

He's either named after Eamon or Maric.

Meaning his last name is either:
Guerrin [Eamon]
Theirin [Maric]

The chances of him being named Theirin would be low, it draws too much attention. Considering he lived with Eamon, he's probably named after him because it wouldn't drag as much attention (and would explain a little more why Ysolde was freaking out about him).

#19
eviant

eviant
  • Members
  • 12 messages
I 100% for voice acting. It felt like a real step backwards playing DA:O after ME. But I guess the dialog options could be a little clearer on what the character really will do and say.

#20
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

eviant wrote...

I 100% for voice acting. It felt like a real step backwards playing DA:O after ME. But I guess the dialog options could be a little clearer on what the character really will do and say.


It would help a little more to make the transition work, unfortunately it would still limit the personalities available for us 'roleplayers'.

#21
term8

term8
  • Members
  • 127 messages

Dave of Canada wrote...

term8 wrote...
I don't like that hawke is going to be called by his last name throughout the game... in the military it works, ie. shepard, or if we are refferring to sports stars. but you really expect me to believe that in Thedas people only address hawke by his last name??


He could be in the military, all we know so far is he's a refugee.

alistar, i think, didn't even have one... if he did i never heard it... or heard anyone call him by it??


Off-topic but..

He's either named after Eamon or Maric.

Meaning his last name is either:
Guerrin [Eamon]
Theirin [Maric]

The chances of him being named Theirin would be low, it draws too much attention. Considering he lived with Eamon, he's probably named after him because it wouldn't drag as much attention (and would explain a little more why Ysolde was freaking out about him).




Fair enough but you can still see my point, No?

#22
jlb524

jlb524
  • Members
  • 19 954 messages

screwoffreg wrote...

Well if we are going to have voice actors they had better make them damn good. I want to see Jeremy Irons as male Hawke and a suitable British actress for female Hawke.


I agree with this.  I don't mind VO, but only when it's awful.

#23
Merci357

Merci357
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages
In my opinion - and that's really just me, feel free to disagree - a mute character breaks immersion. Yes, of course, it's not my voice, however if that's the price I've to pay for the advantages of voice acting, I'm fine with it. Advantages such as not be relegated to a background actor in every cutscene.

#24
Dave of Canada

Dave of Canada
  • Members
  • 17 484 messages

Merci357 wrote...

In my opinion - and that's really just me, feel free to disagree - a mute character breaks immersion. Yes, of course, it's not my voice, however if that's the price I've to pay for the advantages of voice acting, I'm fine with it. Advantages such as not be relegated to a background actor in every cutscene.


Yeah, I never expected people to fully agree with me on this point. I just feel a voiced character gives less option to the player and makes the game feel more like a movie than a game, breaking immersion for me. I'd rather play part instead of watching some voice actor doing it for me.

#25
Layn

Layn
  • Members
  • 590 messages
well the warden in DA:O wasn't a mute character, it just didn't have a predefined voice. It was so immersive for me because they had the voices that i made up in my head.