156 réponses à ce sujet

[Deputy Secretary of Awesome]

It's a very subjective topic, but for me the lack of a voice for your character was the one major drawback in Dragon Age. It especially stood out since every other character was so well voiced, and next to that the Grey Warden felt a little too lifeless and not very engaging, little more than a vehicle for the player to experience the world in (which, understandably is how many people want to play it). Sadly, although the written dialogue for your character was great, the impact never really hit as hard or as emotionally because of the lack of voice.



In Mass Effect, I became very attached to my Shepherd largely because of the skilful voice acting (though I preferred the female Shepherd to the male). Given the quality Bioware has shown with its voice casting in both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I'd be pretty confident and hugely pleased if Hawke is a fully voiced and realised character. The worries about the dialogue options being "over-simplified" say to the Mass Effect style are understandable. Dragon Age certainly needs to keep its diversity of dialogue and choices and pursue its own style and balance. But in my view I'm very keen to see a fleshed out, cinematic and fully voiced Hawke in Dragon Age 2.

[joriandrake]

FRZN wrote...

I much prefer playing a voiced character, especially when everyone around you will bust several lectures while your half of the conversation looks like this:
"Tell me about rat pies."
"Tell me about crusts."
"Where do you get your rats?"
"Give me a free rat pie or I'll kill you."
"I'm going to kill you anyway."
"But officer, there was a rat in my pie."

I just find it weird contributing the least to a conversation, being the character who knows the least about the world and is always asking things like "what's a gray warden?", and then having all my companions look at me and say, "you're in charge, what do we do?"

you just won the thread

[hawat333]

"I'm not saying that the Dragon Age system is perfect, many people will find themselves incapable of getting into their character without some sort of voice work involved. The difference is, those who can are given a lot more options and can easily roleplay more."



OP covered the point here. It's the basics of RPGs. More choices, more ways to alter your character, that's the point of roleplaying.

And hey, most of the RPGs made up to this day doesn't have a voiced character. A tremendous lot of them doesn't even have NPC voices. It still worked out nice.

That's first person narrative. The way the Dragon Age franchise was made.



It'll turn into Mass Age: Hawke Effect, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it won't be the Dragon Age experience anymore. Why? Simple. Less choices mean less character-building, a predetermined character already cuts you out from very trivial parts of character development. I don't say it will be bad. It will be different.

But then, it could be Dragon Age: Hawke's Revenge (tried to come up with a ridicoulusly pirate-like title), not Dragon Age 2.



Just to make it clear what I mean: A Voiced main character is not an downgrade, but neither an improvement. Instead what it really is: changing the basics of the franchise.

It'll turn out good for DA2. But it won't be DA anymore.

[GreenSoda]

I guess the fundamental difference is the way you prefer to play RPGs: Do you see your PC as extension of yourself in the gameworld or do you prefer to play "pupeteer", pulling the strings of a character that clearly is not you ?

Depending on whatever you prefer, I'd wager you either want a voiced PC ...or not.

Personally, I'm not too happy with any VO. Yeah, that's right. Personally I think it cuts down on the amount of content implemented, making seamless modding impossible (quest mods will always feel out of place without VO in a game with 100% VO) and, of course, cheapening DLC (So suddenly my party NPCs are mute, ehh ?)

Modifié par GreenSoda, 09 juillet 2010 - 11:38 .

[Azriel77]

Yea, what a lot of people have said. I hate that there is VO for the main character in DA2. No matter how you spin it, it will limit the choices in the game. I LIKED being able to create and play the characters as I wanted. Now we we be bound to the VO character which will most likely have the vanilla generic good/neutral/evil choices which puts the games on rails. I can already here my mage type character sound like a gruff marine as he talks about the weather. Oh wait, they probably took out all the little things about learning about your NPC's to save time and voice work. So its just going to be talking about missions and some token info about your NPC characters in ME2 style conversations. *SIGH*



Yea, probably going to wait for the bargain bin for this one.

[GodWood]

Agree with OP 100%

[Ecael]

Here's the problem. Continuing that hypothetical scenario, the beggar's response:

Here you go. - Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
What? - Response: You don't have any money either, ma'am?
No. - Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted ma'am?

In Dragon Age (I'll add even more dialogue options):

Here's 5 silver, sir.
--Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
Here's 2 silver, sir.
--Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
I'm a beggar like you, I just borrowed these clothes.
--Response: You don't have any money either, ma'am?
You're going to have to try harder if you want my gold.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
You'd walk away from me if you know what's good for you.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
Here's 1 copper. Go away.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
You deserve to die.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am? *NPC attacks, dies*

Role-playing is limited by voice acting, whether it's fully voiced main characters, fully voiced NPCs, or both.

The only way to bring back true RPGs is to go back to the days of text, which would save BioWare a lot of money.

Modifié par Ecael, 09 juillet 2010 - 12:45 .

[Layn]

the funny thing is, i hadn't noticed that my character in dragon age wasn't voiced until a friend complained that it wasn't like Mass Effect.
To me my warden had the best voice acting ever. spot on to who the character i created was

Modifié par Crrash, 09 juillet 2010 - 12:49 .

[legofdoom]

My worst fear for this was mass effect 2 with spells and dragons. But I remain optimistic and hope that stupid dialogue wheel doesn't make an appearance.

[Lucy Glitter]

Crrash wrote...

the funny thing is, i hadn't noticed that my character in dragon age wasn't voiced until a friend complained that it wasn't like Mass Effect.
To me my warden had the best voice acting ever. spot on to who the character i created was

[Dave of Canada]

Ecael wrote...
Role-playing is limited by voice acting, whether it's fully voiced main characters, fully voiced NPCs, or both.

The funding required for both main characters could instead be put in NPC dialogue, companion dialogue and even other things like extra dungeons and enemies. Let's go with my dialogue options for a moment:
- You're going to have to try harder if you want my gold.
- I'm a beggar
like you, I just borrowed these clothes.
- You'd walk away from me if
you know what's good for you.
- Here you go, sir.

The first three options could theoretically give you the same dialogue response such as "No gold? Dammit." yet you're given the illusion of choice on how to respond, you could be the loveable rogue or the super angry soldier without being forced into a writer's mold on how you're supposed to be reacting.

In Mass Effect, you're always the Renegade / Paragon / Neutral - you can never be the suave / aggressive / manipulator / kind / whatever you want to be person and are bound to follow the rules of the dialogue option that are even more limited due to the voice acting. Even if the dialogue led to the same thing (and in a lot of cases, it does not with the more important NPCs) you have the illusion of choice and can still play the person you want to be.

[Dave of Canada]

Dammit.

Just saw this: http://gameinformer....gon-age-ii.aspx

I am saddened by this, I will most likely still play the game but.. it'll probably hurt the replayability for me.

[Dave of Canada]

let us make a deal, let the main char have Tennant's voice, but then he will have a speaking Adder companion/shapeshifter with Atkinson's voice

Deal.

[Ailith Tycane]

I'm still happy its voice acted.



I know people are annyoed and are going to be annoyed even long after the game has been released, but after playing Mass Effect it felt weird choosing from a dialogue tree without my character talking. It made it actually HARDER for me to relate to the character, which is the opposite for a lot of people.



I just hope that the voice actors they pick are good. I know I loved Jennifer Hale's voice acting in ME, but male Shepard was so monotone and bland.

[TMZuk]

Voice acting only works so far as you can stand the actor. I can't stand Mark Meer as Shepard, thus it is horrible even trying playing ME as a male. On the other hand, Femshep is so obviously an afterhought, that in ME2 they did not even bother developing a different set of animations for her.



So the ME protagonist is a man, and if you don't like the VA, tough luck on you. (me)



And this is what I dread will happen to DA2 as well. Perhaps I'll be positively surprised, but considering waht little we have seen so far, I very much doubt it.

[Ailith Tycane]

TMZuk wrote...

Voice acting only works so far as you can stand the actor. I can't stand Mark Meer as Shepard, thus it is horrible even trying playing ME as a male. On the other hand, Femshep is so obviously an afterhought, that in ME2 they did not even bother developing a different set of animations for her.

So the ME protagonist is a man, and if you don't like the VA, tough luck on you. (me)

And this is what I dread will happen to DA2 as well. Perhaps I'll be positively surprised, but considering waht little we have seen so far, I very much doubt it.

I agree that if the voice actor is horrible it makes it much more difficult to stand, thats why I hope they pick some good ones.

I didnt mind that femshep had the same animations, since I always played as femshep first, I never made the connection until I played as a guy for the 3rd or 4th playthrough. What I DIDNT like was the fact that you were a woman wasnt brought up enough. I didnt expect people to be going "Omg, a woman?!" every two seconds, but the fact that people completely ignored or disregarded it just showed to me that the game really was meant to be played with a male character.

[TMZuk]

The thing is, what is a horrible voice actor? LOTS of people like Mark Meer. I find him bland, boring and flat. That's the essence of the problem of having a voice acted protagonist, as compared to a silent one. Peoples ideas how their protagonist should sound, differ, but Bioware forces everyone to listen to the same, wether they like him/her or not.

The problem in DA:O wasn't that the protagonist was silent, but that he/she had no facial reactions. As the cinematic programmers showed what they were capable off with all the companions and npc's, and also in ME, which have excellent facial emotions, it can only be described as sloppiness. The same as the lacking female animations in ME. All in all, it does not leave much hope for me, that Bioware's descision is the right one.

Modifié par TMZuk, 11 juillet 2010 - 06:17 .

[JoHnDoE14]

I myself, prefer the main character being voiced. Skilled voice actors can be very inspiring and believable, and can also give the illusion that you are actually are having a conversation with your companion/NPC.

However, if the dialogue is particularly well written, then again the illusion of real dialogue emerges because of the immersion. In addition, a voiced main character can very well mean the return of the conversation wheel (which is true, as of DA2). As you mentionned, the wheel has a single devastating weakness...You can't be sure of what your character will end up saying (the well-known ''punch'' renegade argument).

Nevertheless, I think that if the dialogue wheel could make you clearly understand your potential responses *and* depicted the emotion with which they will be voiced (as announced for DA2), it would be the ultimate way to incoorporate dialogue in RPGs.

[Raxxman]

Ecael wrote...

Here's the problem. Continuing that hypothetical scenario, the beggar's response:

Here you go. - Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
What? - Response: You don't have any money either, ma'am?
No. - Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted ma'am?

In Dragon Age (I'll add even more dialogue options):

Here's 5 silver, sir.
--Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
Here's 2 silver, sir.
--Response: Thank you kind ma'am, I have been looking for food for days...
I'm a beggar like you, I just borrowed these clothes.
--Response: You don't have any money either, ma'am?
You're going to have to try harder if you want my gold.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
You'd walk away from me if you know what's good for you.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
Here's 1 copper. Go away.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am?
You deserve to die.
--Response: Why must you be so cold-hearted, ma'am? *NPC attacks, dies*

Role-playing is limited by voice acting, whether it's fully voiced main characters, fully voiced NPCs, or both.

The only way to bring back true RPGs is to go back to the days of text, which would save BioWare a lot of money.

That's not a limit of voice acting, you could voice all those responses.

the 'Wall o' text' method of rpg stoy telling is something of the past, I feel it should be left their. Voice acting allows actual conversations to happen, which is a real issue with the half voiced. None of the dialogue is realistic. I know some people adlib their own words which aren't actually making any impact in the game, but it just gave me the opinion that the warden was just a retard standing their with a vacent look on his face as people yammered on at him/her.

[Pedrak]

I agree with Dave entirely. Less dialogues/roleplay options in exchange for a more "cinematic" feeling is a lousy trade-off for me, no matter how good the VA is. I liked the DAO way (non voiced PC), and I liked the Torment/BG2 way even more (voice only relevant dialogues). Remember how long those games were? The lack of full VA was definitely a factor.

I still believe that while voice acting was one of the best things that ever happened to RPGs, FULL voice acting isn't and can actually become almost a liability.

Yeah, it's more "cinematic" and maybe more "immersive" (the latter is not true for me, but I realize that for many people it is). And yeah, it's quite cool. But if we take it with all its consequences then let's not complain that "new games are too short, remember Baldur's gate?" and that Garrus ran out of dialogues very soon and was always talking about calibrations...

Modifié par Pedrak, 03 septembre 2010 - 12:26 .

[Aradace]

While the OPs arguement actually makes sense (but that doesnt mean I agree with it.) The reality is this: If BioWare didnt intend on going with a fully voiced character for DA3 as well, why did they even bother with one in DA2? Again, your points are valid but in the end, those that dont like the idea of a fully voiced "Hero/ine" need to just drop it and move on. BioWare has obviously decided THEY want to go this route for the franchise and in the end, it's what THEY want that matters most.

[Karlojey]

Personally, what's all the fuss about? People that do not want VA in DA2 says that VA ruins the role-playing effect of the game. Some even used ME as an example.

Seriously, whether the character is voiced or not, we are still "role-playing" aren't we? Whether we play 'The Warden" or "Garret Hawke" we are still playing a role right? Hawke may be voiced and it may ruin the effect for some of us since we do not hear our voice when he speaks but we are still the masters of his world; All his actions are our actions and with that, we are playing the ROLE of Hawke in his world. 

What I'm getting at is this: I for one love VA because even if the PC isn't speaking in the voice that I want him/her to use, his/her actions are still MY actions since I make the choices. Whether future RPGs are voiced or not, it shouldn't be a deal breaker - we STILL get to play the role of the PC and make decisions for him/her. Isn't that what role-playing is all about?

EDIT: Spelling and grammar.

Modifié par Karlojey, 03 septembre 2010 - 12:37 .

[nightcobra]

dave, while i agree with some of your points, you look like you're insinuating that dragon age 2 will just have 3 responses a la mass effect when this is not true. it's stated that we will have 5 choices and 5 investigate options, seems to me that is on par with the number of choices in DA:origins had even though it's voice,

my take on it is when it all comes down to, it's just a matter of preference (in my case i prefer the character to be voiced as that also enables body language not possible if he/she was a mute)

[Pedrak]

Aradace wrote...

While the OPs arguement actually makes sense (but that doesnt mean I agree with it.) The reality is this: If BioWare didnt intend on going with a fully voiced character for DA3 as well, why did they even bother with one in DA2? Again, your points are valid but in the end, those that dont like the idea of a fully voiced "Hero/ine" need to just drop it and move on. BioWare has obviously decided THEY want to go this route for the franchise and in the end, it's what THEY want that matters most.

While I agree that full VA will (sadly) be the future, I don't completely agree with your general "they choose, what does it matter what we say? move on people!" point. While I'm not delusional enough to believe that devs shape their games according to the wishes of us nerds on the forums, I feel providing some sort of feedback - as long as it is constructive, not just some "naaah it sucks!" rant - on their decisions can be a worthy effort and even, to a certain degree, useful. Otherwise, what are we supposed to do here, apart for waiting for news? Just gushing over a certain NPC's appearance?

Karlojey: for me the problem is that full VA costs (a lot of) time and money and therefore -->less dialogue options/roleplay choices AND --> shorter games. To assume that they can make a game just as big, with equally complex dialogues and just as many choices, whether it has full VA or not - as if it's something of a minor cosmetic detail which won't have any other effect apart for, y'know, the PC actually having a voice - is like wanting to have your cake and eat it too...

Modifié par Pedrak, 03 septembre 2010 - 12:53 .