243 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

It's better people assume there will be no toolset and then are pleasantly surprised than that they assume there will be a toolset and are disappointed.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

David Gaider wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
Oh, I know it's not a guarantee or anything, I was just disputing the idea that mike laidlaw confirmed that it wasn't happening.

Correct. We've said we'll look into it after work on the game is done. If someone wants to be pessimistic and say "oh it'll never happen because they want to sell more DLC" then so be it. Can't argue with pessimism, especially ones laced with conspiracy theories.

Isn't "we'll see once the game is out" the same thing that was said before DAO?  I know Bethesda said something similar before Fallout 3.

With that said, I'm going to go over here in the zomgplzplzplzplz make tools camp.    :P:P

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Wulfram wrote...

It's better people assume there will be no toolset and then are pleasantly surprised than that they assume there will be a toolset and are disappointed.

Or just remain hopeful and realize the game come first! 

[David Gaider]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Isn't "we'll see once the game is out" the same thing that was said before DAO?  I know Bethesda said something similar before Fallout 3.

That was indeed the plan for DAO... and had DAO released in March like was originally planned, that is what would have happened. DAO would have been released and a number of months later the toolset would have come out. With the delay in release the toolset came out at the same time as the game.

All we're doing here is not making promises. We don't know what it would take to update the DAO toolset, or even if that's realistic. We'll investigate it further once we have the time. If someone really wants to blame the lack of a firm promise on DLC, then they can go ahead-- but I really think it has much more to do with the fact that this is only something that affects PC users (ie. how much effort will this take vs. how many people will actually use it).

I mean, if you want to get all conspiracy about it, I'd definitely go with "BioWare hates the PC" than slamming on DLC. That'd be much more convincing, I think.

[Wulfram]

Origins mods and DLC didn't really seem to compete - they did different things.



Apart from ridiculously overpowered items, I guess. But I hope people have more sense than to buy DLC for that.

[Pzykozis]

David Gaider wrote...

I mean, if you want to get all conspiracy about it, I'd definitely go with "BioWare hates the PC" than slamming on DLC. That'd be much more convincing, I think.

Ye Gods man what have you just done!

I can't say I even downloaded the toolset and I was of course a PC user otherwise downloading it would have been pointless but, anyway. I did however enjoy a few mods so I will be happy to learn of anything to do with the toolset later on. But honestly I'd rather just play the game first.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

David Gaider wrote...


I mean, if you want to get all conspiracy about it, I'd definitely go with "BioWare hates the PC" than slamming on DLC. That'd be much more convincing, I think.

You should totally start a group.  :innocent:

Wulfram wrote...

Origins mods and DLC didn't really seem to compete - they did different things.

Apart from ridiculously overpowered items, I guess. But I hope people have more sense than to buy DLC for that.

I agree!  Those wildly well endowed models sure didn't conflict with anything.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]  Or the bad ass new weapons models...  armor... vendors...  tweaking the game toward personal perferences....  Honestly, I saw the mod tools as "the ooo shiny!" provider and BioWare's DLC as the "ooo story!" provider. 

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

I mean, if you want to get all conspiracy about it, I'd definitely go with "BioWare hates the PC" than slamming on DLC. That'd be much more convincing, I think.

Well there is your front page quote on every gaming site and blog now:

"BioWare hates the PC"

[Addai]

David Gaider wrote...
All we're doing here is not making promises. We don't know what it would take to update the DAO toolset, or even if that's realistic. We'll investigate it further once we have the time. If someone really wants to blame the lack of a firm promise on DLC, then they can go ahead-- but I really think it has much more to do with the fact that this is only something that affects PC users (ie. how much effort will this take vs. how many people will actually use it).

I believe we're going to have to pay the same as console users for this one despite the PC having no licensing fees, so hopefully that is put into the equation.  I wouldn't mind paying the extra for a chance to mod the game, but if we have to pay more and get no toolset, that would be a bummer.  A big one.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
BioWare hates the PC

Taken out of context.  For giggles.

Waiting for someone to quote this wrongly.

---

More seriously, I don't think it's a conspiracy for a company to decide that releasing part of what they use to make games and add-ons for the game might be a bad business decision.  While I want the tools released for pretty much any game (community mods are often awesome) I wouldn't actually begrudge a company for deciding it's a bad move fiscally.  Personally I think it'd be, logically,  a financially responsible move to NOT provide virtually endless free content for your customers when you hope to provide your own additional content for a price.

I'd say it was the wrong decision, and that you hope the quality of your additional content will at least be equal to the free community content, and that customers will purchase it for said quality...

but it wouldn't be a "conspiracy" to not release the tools.

I mean... unless BioWare was telling customers they were going to release it, that it'd be part of the DA2 equivalent of the Cerebus Network, and secretly the guys in charge at the company had no intention of EVER releasing any tools and were just tricking customers.  THAT'D be a conspiracy.

Reasonable business decisions, especially ones that are pretty open (like, say, telling customers they won't be a toolset on release and that they aren't promising one), aren't what I'd consider a conspiracy even if said business isn't laying all their cards out on the table.

Modifié par MerinTB, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I mean, if you want to get all conspiracy about it, I'd definitely go with "BioWare hates the PC" than slamming on DLC. That'd be much more convincing, I think.

Well there is your front page quote on every gaming site and blog now:

"BioWare hates the PC"

"Today's (not really) Worst Person... in the Wooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrlllllllldddddd!"

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

I believe we're going to have to pay the same as console users for this one despite the PC having no licensing fees, so hopefully that is put into the equation.  I wouldn't mind paying the extra for a chance to mod the game, but if we have to pay more and get no toolset, that would be a bummer.  A big one.

Thats true, at least in the US the PC version has been jacked up to $60. So thats an extra $10 in pure profit for each PC copy sold. Only time will tell if DA2 is as good of a PC game as Origins was (or better) or if its suffers a terminal case of console-itis.

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:31 .

[slimgrin]

Please go the extra mile Bioware and support pc users by releasing a toolset.

[David Gaider]

slimgrin wrote...
Please go the extra mile Bioware and support pc users by releasing a toolset.

Provided we have the time and ability, of course we will. We're well aware that PC users want a toolset.

[Maria Caliban]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Isn't "we'll see once the game is out" the same thing that was said before DAO?  I know Bethesda said something similar before Fallout 3.

No. One of the first things we learned about Dragon Age was that it would have a toolset and multiplayer.

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

"BioWare hates the PC" .

So its true!

MerinTB wrote...
 Personally I think it'd be, logically,  a financially responsible move to NOT provide virtually endless free content for your customers when you hope to provide your own additional content for a price.

I disagree. There is a lot of awesome content out there that still has people playing the game, telling others about the game/extra content etc. It adds lifespan to most any game and increases sales. My thoughts on the paid dlc for origins is for another thread...a very long one.

[LadyKarrakaz]

Canlocu wrote...

Hmm I was just looking this up. Seems like no it will not.

As posted here in Aug 09 20010:
http://www.firingsqu...?searchid=22989

"A user on the BioWare Social Network forums posted some new DA2 information from an interview in a French magazine. Lead designer Mike Laidlaw is quoted as saying the sequel is being developed with consoles in mind because the majority of sales for Dragon Age: Origins were for those platforms. As a result, BioWare focused on a traditional 3rd-person camera angle and decided not to include the content creator/editor with the game. Quoted and translated:

[Joystick] Why did you leave/forsake the "a la Baldur's gate" view on PC of the first Dragon Age?

[Mike Laidlaw] For budgetary reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very detailed and nice textures so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view. With an aerial view [isometric] we should cover much more ground and so create other textures. Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience.

[Joystick] Will you release a toolset for DAO 2?

[Mike Laidlaw] To be short, DAO 2 will not have a toolset. I think that DAO 1 toolset is very powerful but very complicated.

Following 37 pages of backlash, Mr. Laidlaw made an appearance on the forums (scroll to the bottom of the page) in an attempt to clear up some confusion. He admits there will not be a toolset released with DA2, but since it hasn't changed much since DA:O, "there isn't a new toolset to release, per se." He says that they are, however, "investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours.""


I was going to buy it on PC for this reason (toolset) a long with xbox 360.

Indeed, the infamous user was me, I created the famous thread that got locked after much tantrum, but you can still find all informations and original debate here.  You can read there the translation of parts of the interview and the complete answer of M Laidlaw.
Answer is no, no toolset at release, and maybe after. IMO, I think it means no.
But if you want to hope, vote here, the more people say they'd like a toolset...

Modifié par Purple Lady, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:38 .

[upsettingshorts]

A toolset would be great, but it's not a birthright.

[David Gaider]

FieryDove wrote...
I disagree. There is a lot of awesome content out there that still has people playing the game, telling others about the game/extra content etc. It adds lifespan to most any game and increases sales.

I would tend to agree. There's no proof that a toolset impacts DLC sales much if at all. The one major factor that seems to affect DLC sales is the number of people that still have the game installed and are playing it-- if anything, my judgment would be that a toolset increases that number.

Of course, this only affects PC users-- but as we all know they're the center of the universe, so that should really go without saying.

Modifié par David Gaider, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Maria Caliban]

FieryDove wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
 Personally I think it'd be, logically,  a financially responsible move to NOT provide virtually endless free content for your customers when you hope to provide your own additional content for a price.

I disagree. There is a lot of awesome content out there that still has people playing the game, telling others about the game/extra content etc. It adds lifespan to most any game and increases sales. My thoughts on the paid dlc for origins is for another thread...a very long one.

I doubt the toolset has a significant impact on sales. From what BioWare has told us, the average player only went through the game once. For NWN, the vast majority of players never touched mods.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

A toolset would be great, but it's not a birthright.

What's with the new avatar?

NWN toolset > DA:O toolset.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

Of course, this only affects PC users-- but as we all know they're the center of the universe that should really go without saying.

Well if the console players would protest in mass and tell MS/Sony they are tired of restricted updates/patches, no mods and in some cases locked saves maybe things would change. If things got loosened a great deal with these restrictions even I would get a console but until that time...no thanks. So...there.

[upsettingshorts]

David Gaider wrote...

Of course, this only affects PC users-- but as we all know they're the center of the universe that should really go without saying.

But a PC-only toolset doesn't have the potential to negatively influence the gameplay of console players.  Bioware and every cross-platform developer on the planet makes choices every day that favors one at the expense of the other ranging from graphics to interface to controls and everything inbetween.  The toolset, vague "but resources could be used elsewhere" counterpoints aside, seems like something that simply doesn't have anything at all to do with console platforms.

So taking all of that into account, it's no wonder it's a popular request.   Unless we're aware of the potential development implications of updating the toolset - and we aren't - then it's impossible to see a negative consequences of getting one. 

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But a PC-only toolset doesn't have the potential to negatively influence the gameplay of console players.  Bioware and every cross-platform developer on the planet makes choices every day that favors one at the expense of the other ranging from graphics to interface to controls and everything inbetween.  The toolset, vague "but resources could be used elsewhere" counterpoints aside, seems like something that simply doesn't have anything at all to do with console platforms.

So taking all of that into account, it's no wonder it's a popular request.   Unless we're aware of the potential development implications of updating the toolset - and we aren't - then it's impossible to see a negative consequences of getting one. 

Console people probably get a bit bored of being told about how all the bugs and other annoyances can be fixed with mods which aren't available to them.

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...

Console people probably get a bit bored of being told about how all the bugs and other annoyances can be fixed with mods which aren't available to them.

That's not a problem with the toolset itself, but with posters who either assume everyone uses the same platform they do, or console players who take that assumption personally.