105 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

dukeofyork wrote...

I am just curious.  Im not saying you shouldnt dislike Mass Effect 2.  It is obviously completely subjective and i guess i can see if someone truly lothes games that do not have traditional rpg mechanics why they wouldnt like it, but for a game that has garnered one of the best critical receptions of any game for any of the 3 current hardcore platforms (pc, xbox360, ps3,) and a game I have seen little to no hate for in my interactions with other videogame and rpg die hards in person and on other forums why this game gets such a disproportionately larger amount of hate on biowares own forum?  I just find it truly humorous and wanted to see if there was a clear cut reason I am overlooking.

People get so ridiculously attached to a character or set of characters from the last game that they'll resist any changes made in the next game because of it. Expect Mass Effect 3 to "suck" even more from these people if most of the former squadmates from 1 or 2 fail to get enough screentime.

As David Gaider of Dragon Age said, the attachment is a good thing, but don't expect them to cater to a person's every whim because they claim to have stayed loyal to a video game.

David Gaider wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Keep up the good work, David (no, that wasn't sarcasm).

People keep praising BioWare for their character development and then bash them when their favorite character doesn't make it into the next game.

Apparently character development means "Please keep my beloved companion without ever making new characters!" these days.

Oh, I don't think it's as bad as that. People get emotionally attached; that's a good thing. Until they can see what the new game actually is, all most people are going to see is what it isn't. That makes it a net negative for them. People will get excited and nervously clench their hands and do the pee-pee dance. All we can do until they learn the answers to their concerns is smile and nod.

Modifié par Ecael, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:38 .

[WilliamShatner]

Something that is merely good or mediocre that squanders huge potential like ME2 is hated a lot more than bad games that had none.

[Ecael]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Something that is merely good or mediocre that squanders huge potential like ME2 is hated a lot more than bad games that had none.

Vague words like "elements", "aspects", "feel", "roots" and now "potential".

[NICKjnp]

The only thing the "hate" is going to do is make the Bioware employees not want to take part in forum discussion. If you want them to take you seriously then simply state both good and bad things about the game.... things you liked and disliked. Negative criticism without anything positive added about the game only makes them ignore the forums and the suggestions we forumites make.

[wrexingcrew]

Yes, Ecael: my 400+ word post earlier in the thread was either vague or all about Mass Effect 1 characters.



I understand that people want to defend something they really liked - I defend the first Mass Effect all the time. But I also acknowledge that 1) it had flaws, or at least aspects that most people would consider flaws and 2) that reasonable people could have sound reasons for disliking the game.

[aaron baba]

mrsph wrote...

I think it is safe to say that the Bioware forums hate Bioware and everything Bioware does or ever will do.

You know, like every official forum.

+1


I loved the original Mass Effect.
I loved the second Mass Effect.
That's all I have to say about that.

[Ecael]

wrexingcrew wrote...

Yes, Ecael: my 400+ word post earlier in the thread was either vague or all about Mass Effect 1 characters.

I understand that people want to defend something they really liked - I defend the first Mass Effect all the time. But I also acknowledge that 1) it had flaws, or at least aspects that most people would consider flaws and 2) that reasonable people could have sound reasons for disliking the game.

I wasn't responding to you, however.



My view is that these sound reasons for disliking a game are invalid when the same "elements" or "aspects" are present throughout most BioWare games.

The reasons for liking a BioWare game - dialogue, character development and customization - are still there. Most video games these days don't even bother with one of those three, much less any of them.

[EpicFail25]

Because most people don't like change.

[cachx]

Ecael wrote...
The reasons for liking a BioWare game - dialogue, character development and customization - are still there. Most video games these days don't even bother with one of those three, much less any of them.

/in before someone uses the stock words "dumbed down".

[Spectre 117]

The thing i find most annoying its how almost everyone wants the other people to just accept their opinion.I mean for instance people who disliked the game want to make everyone agreed with them on why dont they like the game,yet the ones who liked the game want to make the others who didnt like it.Everyone has a right to have their own opinion so if you didnt like your game fine you dont have to like it but you cant try to make the others who liked it try to dislike it.The same goes for the ones who like it.

[The_Blue_Passion]

This is how I see it.

Mass Effect - Introduced us to the ME universe.Bioware was still on it's own when it did this,so there was more freedom for the story and have the TPS combat so people can shoot stuff.Basically develops the general tone and story of the trilogy.

Mass Effect 2 - Bioware tries to fix things people hated on about Mass Effect and tried out new things.Story is weak,but it's working out the kinks in the gameplay and seeing what new stuff they added people like/dislike.I like to call this the "guinea pig" of the trilogy.Also,EA was in on this,so it more catered for the casual action fans than RPG players.

Mass Effect 3 - Bioware has a very good idea of what fans want and like from both games,and gameplay is a much smaller part of the developement now.I like to imagine that it takes the best of both games and ends Shepard's story with a bang.

Modifié par The_Blue_Passion, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:36 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

You should see the Dragon Age 2 forum



I had to quit in a conversation because I felt like I needed to express how in Real Life an AK-47 would react different than a M16 and being represented in game you would hope something like that would be similar but I just gave up. It would take about 2 pages worth of explaining and some people just aren't worth the effort.

[WilliamShatner]

Ecael wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Something that is merely good or mediocre that squanders huge potential like ME2 is hated a lot more than bad games that had none.

Vague words like "elements", "aspects", "feel", "roots" and now "potential".

There's nothing vague about it.  The Mass Effect trilogy had the potential to be the greatest space opera of our time.  Then it hit the reset button 5 minutes into part two.

[MassEffect762]

Spectre 117 wrote...

The thing i find most annoying its how almost everyone wants the other people to just accept their opinion.I mean for instance people who disliked the game want to make everyone agreed with them on why dont they like the game,yet the ones who liked the game want to make the others who didnt like it.Everyone has a right to have their own opinion so if you didnt like your game fine you dont have to like it but you cant try to make the others who liked it try to dislike it.The same goes for the ones who like it.

While I agree with what you say, you're missing the big picture.

What's all the fuss about? Simple.

Group A is affraid change will come.

Group B is affraid bioware won't listen.

Both A and B tear each other apart for biowares attention till ME3.

[wrexingcrew]

Ecael wrote...
I wasn't responding to you, however.

It was clear that you might as well have been - which becomes even more clear later in your post.

The idea that Mass Effect 2 doesn't represent any kind of departure or change in design philosophy for BioWare...I find it astonishing that you'd seriously argue that. To argue that it's a change for the better? Totally fair. To argue that there was no meaningful change? Hard for me to believe.

To your point about BioWare games generally versus the competition - no argument. As I said earlier, Mass Effect 2 is by far the most effective I've seen of the "Gears clones" mechnically, and it offers a lot that Gears itself can't. I think it's still reasonable for those of us that prefer the first game to mention changes we didn't agree with, especially if (as I do and did) we acknowledge the care and craft that still went into the sequel. For someone to say that Mass Effect 2 was lazy, sloppy, or wasn't made with care isn't intellectually credible - but the same goes for the suggestion that it in no way differs from previous BioWare efforts.

[Ecael]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Ecael wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

Something that is merely good or mediocre that squanders huge potential like ME2 is hated a lot more than bad games that had none.

Vague words like "elements", "aspects", "feel", "roots" and now "potential".

There's nothing vague about it.  The Mass Effect trilogy had the potential to be the greatest space opera of our time.  Then it hit the reset button 5 minutes into part two.

Care to explain how Shepard rose in ranks on the Alliance and ended up on the very ship he/she would be captain of? Or should you just dismiss that part and go straight to the "Let's consider Shepard to be a Spectre"?

It hit the reset button when it was announced as a standalone game and not an expansion. I'm not sure why you find that so disappointing.

[Ecael]

wrexingcrew wrote...

Ecael wrote...
I wasn't responding to you, however.

It was clear that you might as well have been - which becomes even more clear later in your post.

The idea that Mass Effect 2 doesn't represent any kind of departure or change in design philosophy for BioWare...I find it astonishing that you'd seriously argue that. To argue that it's a change for the better? Totally fair. To argue that there was no meaningful change? Hard for me to believe.

To your point about BioWare games generally versus the competition - no argument. As I said earlier, Mass Effect 2 is by far the most effective I've seen of the "Gears clones" mechnically, and it offers a lot that Gears itself can't. I think it's still reasonable for those of us that prefer the first game to mention changes we didn't agree with, especially if (as I do and did) we acknowledge the care and craft that still went into the sequel. For someone to say that Mass Effect 2 was lazy, sloppy, or wasn't made with care isn't intellectually credible - but the same goes for the suggestion that it in no way differs from previous BioWare efforts.

So what changes do you believe made it deviate towards the "Gears clones"?

[Spectre 117]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Spectre 117 wrote...

The thing i find most annoying its how almost everyone wants the other people to just accept their opinion.I mean for instance people who disliked the game want to make everyone agreed with them on why dont they like the game,yet the ones who liked the game want to make the others who didnt like it.Everyone has a right to have their own opinion so if you didnt like your game fine you dont have to like it but you cant try to make the others who liked it try to dislike it.The same goes for the ones who like it.

While I agree with what you say, you're missing the big picture.

What's all the fuss about? Simple.

Group A is affraid change will come.

Group B is affraid bioware won't listen.

Both A and B tear each other apart for biowares attention till ME3.

True,true but come to think of it i barely see biowae dudes around (maybe its just me) so i think in part they are wasting their time XD:D

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Some of the most common are an awful main plot, and far too much emphasis on cover based shooter combat.

This, but most importantly the bad story and bad presentation thereof (those are two different things, but neither is well done in ME 2).

[MassEffect762]

Spectre 117 wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

Spectre 117 wrote...

The thing i find most annoying its how almost everyone wants the other people to just accept their opinion.I mean for instance people who disliked the game want to make everyone agreed with them on why dont they like the game,yet the ones who liked the game want to make the others who didnt like it.Everyone has a right to have their own opinion so if you didnt like your game fine you dont have to like it but you cant try to make the others who liked it try to dislike it.The same goes for the ones who like it.

While I agree with what you say, you're missing the big picture.

What's all the fuss about? Simple.

Group A is affraid change will come.

Group B is affraid bioware won't listen.

Both A and B tear each other apart for biowares attention till ME3.

True,true but come to think of it i barely see biowae dudes around (maybe its just me) so i think in part they are wasting their time XD:D

Maybe, Maybe not.

Who's to say they aren't simply reading/collecting thread data and avoiding input.

Who's to say they aren't using personal accounts to do it stealthy.

Eventually it will be read, so it's not in vain.

[Spectre 117]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Spectre 117 wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

Spectre 117 wrote...

The thing i find most annoying its how almost everyone wants the other people to just accept their opinion.I mean for instance people who disliked the game want to make everyone agreed with them on why dont they like the game,yet the ones who liked the game want to make the others who didnt like it.Everyone has a right to have their own opinion so if you didnt like your game fine you dont have to like it but you cant try to make the others who liked it try to dislike it.The same goes for the ones who like it.

While I agree with what you say, you're missing the big picture.

What's all the fuss about? Simple.

Group A is affraid change will come.

Group B is affraid bioware won't listen.

Both A and B tear each other apart for biowares attention till ME3.

True,true but come to think of it i barely see biowae dudes around (maybe its just me) so i think in part they are wasting their time XD:D

Maybe, Maybe not.

Who's to say they aren't simply reading/collecting thread data and avoiding input.

Who's to say they aren't using personal accounts to do it stealthy.

Eventually it will be read, so it's not in vain.

Where they turned into some sort of creepy collector keeper O_O?

[Onyx Jaguar]

You know whats better than the ME series?



Tetris