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[Sarah1281]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
In the city elf Origin you learn that Duncan once wanted to recruit your mother, after she had given birth to you

I thought he wanted to recruit her before her wedding and, like with you, Valendrien sped up the date so that wouldn't happen? 

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Duncan said he didn't press the issue since there was not Blight or need for more recruits. Where did you get/hear that Valendrian sped it up? For either Adaia or the Warden?

[Sarah1281]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Duncan said he didn't press the issue since there was not Blight or need for more recruits. Where did you get/hear that Valendrian sped it up? For either Adaia or the Warden?

You can only get this as a CEM because this is a conversation you can have with Duncan after you wake up and the women are kidnapped.

PC: Will you tell me now why you came here?
Duncan: To find recurits. I had hoped to speak to you, but your elder outmanuevered me. I suspect this is why your wedding was moved forward: in hopes that I might let you remain. Valendrien did the same thing when I came to recruit your mother.

To me, this means that Adaia did not have the CE yet and she was unmarried when Duncan made plans to arrive and Valendrien quickly got her settled with Cyrion, which indicates that - CE marraige practices being what they are - he was from another Alienage.

[Sarah1281]

dream_operator23 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Duncan said he didn't press the issue since there was not Blight or need for more recruits. Where did you get/hear that Valendrian sped it up? For either Adaia or the Warden?

You can only get this as a CEM because this is a conversation you can have with Duncan after you wake up and the women are kidnapped.

PC: Will you tell me now why you came here?
Duncan: To find recurits. I had hoped to speak to you, but your elder outmanuevered me. I suspect this is why your wedding was moved forward: in hopes that I might let you remain. Valendrien did the same thing when I came to recruit your mother.

To me, this means that Adaia did not have the CE yet and she was unmarried when Duncan made plans to arrive and Valendrien quickly got her settled with Cyrion, which indicates that - CE marraige practices being what they are - he was from another Alienage.

Ah! I did not know that.  It would make sense, especially since the CE wakes up wondering why the wedding was moved forward.  Obviously no one else in the family really knew the reason either, but went along with it.  Sneaky Valendrian!

It's not just Duncan's suspicion, either. Another male-only conversation but if you talk to Valendrien before you go to the estate you get this:
Valendrien: You must hurry to the palace.
PC: Why did you move my wedding forward?
Valendrein: You've always been so clver, so resourceful. I thought you might become a merchant or... *sigh*/You've always been so strong, such an amazing fighter. I thought we might get you in the town guard or...*sigh*
Valendrien: When Duncan sent word he was returning, looking for recruits...I panicked. To be a Grey Warden is a noble calling, but the path is lonely and painful. I hope you understand I had your best interests in mind.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Ahhh... That would do it. I tend to play CEFs. Only did one CEM run and that was a while back.

[Sarah1281]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Ahhh... That would do it. I tend to play CEFs. Only did one CEM run and that was a while back.

I've only done the CEM origin while I beat the game as a CEF because I had no interest in playing him but I wanted confirmation that Soris calls Shianni his sister if you drag your feet enough about rescuing her and I believe playing as a male is the only way you hear that Soris and Shianni's mother died when a mob lit her house on fire and pushed her back inside when she tried to escape.

[MyKingdomCold]

Getting back to Jory, I don't think Duncan really had much of a choice.



Judging by the way he's written, I don't think he could've been talked down and into going through with the joining ritual. He doesn't seem to be too bright and if left to his own devices he probably would've spilled the details of the ritual.

[Sarah1281]

Not then, perhaps, but he had other opportunities before Jory knew anything to tell him he didn't make the cut.

[DWSmiley]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

Getting back to Jory, I don't think Duncan really had much of a choice.

Judging by the way he's written, I don't think he could've been talked down and into going through with the joining ritual. He doesn't seem to be too bright and if left to his own devices he probably would've spilled the details of the ritual.

We'll never know if there was a way to get Jory through the ritual because Duncan didn't even try.  Compare that to minor league sports, for example.  Scouts and coaches don't say, "hey, this kid's got talent but his head is not in the game, so let's just get rid of him."  They try - at least the good ones do - to find a way for the prospect to succeed and make the best use of his talent.  Jory had talent - assuming Duncan did not screw up in selecting him - and deserved better handling.  Imagine the condolences letter to Jory's wife.  "Sorry, your husband saw someone die in one of our secret rituals and then refused to participate himself, so we killed him.  Best wishes with the pregnancy."

[MyKingdomCold]

Yes. Duncan probably could've found a way to let Jory go earlier or maybe not select him in the first place., but I'm talking about at the ritual itself.



Jory was freaking out after Daveth died and I don't think he would've gone through with it. Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be akin to desertion? That prisoner in the camp was locked up for desertion, so should we just let Jory go?



As for his wife, I liked asking Jory if he abandoned her by going to Ostagar.

[MyKingdomCold]

Also, he drew his sword first and swung first. Again, he's not the brightest person so should Duncan just let him go? If he survived the oncoming darkspawn horde and managed to escape, I think he would've told people about the ritual.

[rak72]

Why wasn't he concerned about the wife and kid when he tested for the GW's. Anyone with a brain has to figure there is a good chance that you won't be coming back home if you run off to fight a war against monsters.

[Sarah1281]

Considering he was a Redcliffe Knight and the King was calling on everyone to go to Ostagar, he probably figured he would be sent off to fight darkspawn anyway and wouldn't return until the darkspawn were beaten back so why NOT try and be a Warden? Once the darkspawn were no longer an immediate threat he probably imagined he could return home just as easily.

[DWSmiley]

From his comments it seems he loved his wife so I would say no, he didn't abandon her. But certainly he is not the brightest recruit and didn't understand what he was getting himself into. That said, he must have had exceptional talent as a warrior or Duncan wouldn't have recruited him. So you've got a talented guy getting cold feet, what do you do? Let him see someone else die and then immediately thrust the chalice in his hands?

[MyKingdomCold]

DWSmiley wrote...

From his comments it seems he loved his wife so I would say no, he didn't abandon her. But certainly he is not the brightest recruit and didn't understand what he was getting himself into. That said, he must have had exceptional talent as a warrior or Duncan wouldn't have recruited him. So you've got a talented guy getting cold feet, what do you do? Let him see someone else die and then immediately thrust the chalice in his hands?

I understand that point, but I guess that's the way the ritual was handled.  Maybe they should've had the recruits drink at the same time.

[Sarah1281]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

From his comments it seems he loved his wife so I would say no, he didn't abandon her. But certainly he is not the brightest recruit and didn't understand what he was getting himself into. That said, he must have had exceptional talent as a warrior or Duncan wouldn't have recruited him. So you've got a talented guy getting cold feet, what do you do? Let him see someone else die and then immediately thrust the chalice in his hands?

I understand that point, but I guess that's the way the ritual was handled.  Maybe they should've had the recruits drink at the same time.

If his nerves failed at 'here, drink this' then how do you think he'd handle no more kids, thirty years to live, stalked by darkspawn, terrible nightmares for the rest of your life, the Calling, someone has to destroy their soul to kill the Archdemon...I just don't think he had what it took.

[MyKingdomCold]

They could've kept it a secret from him!

[Sarah1281]

They should have kept everything about the Wardens secret from him because he can't handle it? That really makes him FAR more trouble than he's worth.

[MyKingdomCold]

I know, but it would be fun for awhile!



"Nightmares? I don't know what you're talking about."

[Sarah1281]

"Alistair, you're in charge of keeping Jory clueless."



I smell a fanfic...

[DWSmiley]

Well, I don't think he ever makes the Warden hall of fame...



But it's not a stretch seeing him become a proficient slayer of darkspawn and accept that his chances of more kids have decreased. Maybe his mental, er, sluggishness helps moderate the dreams. And only one warden every four centuries has to make the ultimate sacrifce, so not much of an issue there. An organization desparate for recruits should make some effort to support and develop the ones they have.

[DWSmiley]

Well, everyone is severely misled on what it means to be a warden and maybe if Duncan didn't suspect a Blight was imminent he would have rejected Jory. But WITTETB (whatever it takes to end the Blight), eh. But then Duncan should at least have tried to maximize Jory`s chances of success. Or, if Duncan had written Jory off, then just tell him before the ritual starts that he can`t be a Warden and should enlist in Cailan`s army instead.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Duncan said he didn't press the issue since there was not Blight or need for more recruits. Where did you get/hear that Valendrian sped it up? For either Adaia or the Warden?

You can only get this as a CEM because this is a conversation you can have with Duncan after you wake up and the women are kidnapped.

PC: Will you tell me now why you came here?
Duncan: To find recurits. I had hoped to speak to you, but your elder outmanuevered me. I suspect this is why your wedding was moved forward: in hopes that I might let you remain. Valendrien did the same thing when I came to recruit your mother.

To me, this means that Adaia did not have the CE yet and she was unmarried when Duncan made plans to arrive and Valendrien quickly got her settled with Cyrion, which indicates that - CE marraige practices being what they are - he was from another Alienage.

Ooh. I've done the CEM Origin but must have missed or forgotten those lines. Thanks. And reading that, I agree with you completely.

Valendrian is one sneaky hahren...