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[crimzontearz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

But how many potential customers will be aware that DA:2 will have a fully voiced female PC?

That isn't exactly the right question. The question is how many potential customers who would care if DA2 has a fully voiced female PC will be aware that DA2 will have a fully voiced female PC.

I totally sympathize with people wanting more  fem!hawke and fem!shepard love but........have they not learned yet that it's NOT gonna happen?

[What is this]

Maconbar wrote...

What is this wrote...

Oh looks it's this thread again, haven't bothered reading all the post again, but i'll sum up my argument

as I said this in the last one, and i'll say it again THE MAIN DEMOGRAPHIC IS MALE, They need their Demographic to appeal to the cover, and promotion. Your still getting the option of a fully voiced female PC in the actual game which  very few games do. You don't need Fem hawke on the cover any more than we need a Rogue Hawke, Ethnic Hawke, and Mage Hawke on there as well. If you want Fem Hawke on the cover it needs to appeal to males(AKA Tomb raider style) and i'm sure the female's don't want that.

If your asking for more screen shots, they will come in time. and her animations are similar to Avelines/Iasbella's/or bethany's depending on class, do you really need to see them even though im sure most of you are going to change fem hawke around to your preference anyways? is this really that big an issue that we need to have 2 10 page threads on the subject matter?

This is a matter of Marketing and not a small little request to ask for, Marketing is complex thing and i'm sure they aren't witholding screens of Femhawke due to being sexist. the game is still 4 months away, Hold your horses for a screenshot. More will come.

But how many potential customers will be aware that DA:2 will have a fully voiced female PC?

Any who read the back of the games case.
Any who visit the site
any who did 5 minutes of research

No casual Female players are going to be picking up dragon age of all games, only hardcores. If there's a game that embraces a non tomb raider female protganoist i think they'll find it.

[What is this]

Mage One wrote...

What is this wrote...
If you're asking for a CGI trailer like the ones currently released, that's a bit much to ask for. If you're asking for ingame trailer of Femhawke i think that's more likley.

I was thinking more along the lines of the latter.  For example, in the most recent gameplay trailer, it would have been nice for them to have one of the combat examples be with male Hawke and the other be with femHawke. While I would love to see the former, I know it's not likely, and I do understand why.

They may have one closer to release, If someone wants to make a thread asking for this it would be far more reasonable request,

[What is this]

KIrving wrote...

What is this wrote...

Oh looks it's this thread again, haven't bothered reading all the post again, but i'll sum up my argument

as I said this in the last one, and i'll say it again THE MAIN DEMOGRAPHIC IS MALE, They need their Demographic to appeal to the cover, and promotion. Your still getting the option of a fully voiced female PC in the actual game which  very few games do. You don't need Fem hawke on the cover any more than we need a Rogue Hawke, Ethnic Hawke, and Mage Hawke on there as well. If you want Fem Hawke on the cover it needs to appeal to males(AKA Tomb raider style) and i'm sure the female's don't want that.

If your asking for more screen shots, they will come in time. and her animations are similar to Avelines/Iasbella's/or bethany's depending on class, do you really need to see them even though im sure most of you are going to change fem hawke around to your preference anyways? is this really that big an issue that we need to have 2 10 page threads on the subject matter?

This is a matter of Marketing and not a small little request to ask for, Marketing is complex thing and i'm sure they aren't witholding screens of Femhawke due to being sexist. the game is still 4 months away, Hold your horses for a screenshot. More will come.

This issue and threads expressing similar requests keep being brought up because it matters to people.  It may not matter to you and that's your opinion but that doesn't mean these issues and feelings about them need to go away for your comfort.
You say that the information will come with time.  How do you know this? 1 It didn't happen with Mass Effect so what are you basing that belief on? 
2Putting more information on the website will not dilute the advertising campaign.  It's a no brainer solution and allows people who do a little bit of research to be quickly rewarded with information that could, potentially, confirm their decision to purchase DA2.

4Marketing may, occasionally, be a complex thing however I'm not getting the impression of any degree of complexity in the DA2 marketing direction.

Witholding sceenshots of the female Hawke and pushing a marketing campaign that is clearly suggesting that, potential,3 male customers are more valuable than female customers is sexist.
BioWare/EA are not the only companies to choose such directions in marketing and I am grateful that these threads don't get closed while the discussion is civil. 

to 1:  They did release screenshots of fem shep closer to release for ME2, and i remember a few youtube videos of femShep as well, not sure if they were official but they sure as hell surfaced.
2:THey don't need to Reveal the whole game on the website, They state it very clearly you can choose male or female if you look at the site for 5 seconds. They have a few screens of femhawke already they don't need one of every animation
3:Lol, You obviously know nothing about demographic, Male customers are more valuable in this video game market because there are more of them and more money to be made, not out of sexism (tired of hearing the word sexist on these threads)
You don't market Tanning lotion to black people, that doesn't make it racism
You don't market Toys to adults, that dosen't make it ageism
you don't market games to Females, that dosen't make it sexism.

4:Marketing isn't as easy as it looks. To get in the field you ussually need a 2 yeardegree atleast. Not as simple as "Put Brand  name on billboard=SELL SELL SELL" 

Modifié par What is this, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:08 .

[What is this]

OOps

Modifié par What is this, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:08 .

[HolyJellyfish]

What is this wrote...

Any who read the back of the games case.
Any who visit the site
any who did 5 minutes of research

No casual Female players are going to be picking up dragon age of all games, only hardcores. If there's a game that embraces a non tomb raider female protganoist i think they'll find it.

If you'd been reading the posts, instead of jumping to conclusions, you'd see our point.

Go to the website.

Bring me back an available screen shot of Female Hawke.

Actually, while you are at it, bring back a snippet of information that even SUGGESTS she's viable. And no, the FAQ doesn't count. No one digs through there anyways.

Do that, and you will notice the flaws.

And who are you to suggest that casual female players won't get the game? They would if they KNEW ABOUT IT. Bioware's Marketting, even their website, does not make this information known.

Dragon Age: Origins definitely was much more open ended with its gender campaign. However, DA2? The marketting reminds me of Mass Effect. And if the packaging is any similar, there are no hints at all about being able to customize the gender. Its kind of a big deal when you are ignoring a whole base of ladies who don't even know about your game. It keeps your purse strings tight.

And I can say that thoughtfully, knowingly, because I am NOT a casual RPG/Action lady, and I had NO idea about the customizability of Bioware's games. I was uninterested and ignored them until I accidentally stumbled across a fan made trailer online featuring female shepard. that to me, is pretty lame on Bioware's part.

[HolyJellyfish]

What is this wrote...

to 1:  They did release screenshots of fem shep closer to release for ME2, and i remember a few youtube videos of femShep as well, not sure if they were official but they sure as hell surfaced.
2:THey don't need to Reveal the whole game on the website, They state it very clearly you can choose male or female if you look at the site for 5 seconds. They have a few screens of femhawke already they don't need one of every animation
3:Lol, You obviously know nothing about demographic, Male customers are more valuable in this video game market because there are more of them and more money to be made, not out of sexism (tired of hearing the word sexist on these threads)
You don't market Tanning lotion to black people, that doesn't make it racism
You don't market Toys to adults, that dosen't make it ageism
you don't market games to Females, that dosen't make it sexism.

4:Marketing isn't as easy as it looks. To get in the field you ussually need a 2 yeardegree atleast. Not as simple as "Put Brand  name on billboard=SELL SELL SELL" 

1) They DID release screenshots. Only, its not on the website. They gave them specifically to the fan community. Youtube videos? Not official. Doesn't count. Hard to find, especially in the beginning.

2) No. You don't have to reveal the whole game. I didn't realize showing off a glimpse of female hawke was... revealing the whole game. And have you been to the website? Because clearly you haven't. There are no screen grabs of female hawke or any indication that she exists, unless you actively look in the FAQ. And who is going to do that? You can't tell me that would be 'lazy' of the ladies, that's just normal. It shouldn't take but a few minutes to find out that kind of info.

3) You obviously know nothing about marketting. Male demographic exists and stays. It isn't going anywhere. Niching into the female demographic, however, shows potential for more money. You can do that without disenchanting men by testing images on the website, information, videoclips, etc. Therefore, the market strategy is no different, it has just opened itself to more opportunities.

Think of it this way - You wouldn't pass by a twenty dollar bill, and completely ignore it on your way to grabbing a fifty dollar one. If you were smart, you'd pick them both up.

And yes, if you don't market games to Females when those games are clearly made so women can play (Look at the writing staff. A chunk of them are female. The story is written by women, with few exceptions), that is a sign of stereotyped marketting.

I rest my case.

I just want Bioware to read this, and I'm tired of posters jumping on here mocking what I'm saying.

I'm not asking much. Just throw some information on the website, you'll make more money in the long run.

[crimzontearz]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

3) You obviously know nothing about marketting. Male demographic exists and stays. It isn't going anywhere. Niching into the female demographic, however, shows potential for more money. You can do that without disenchanting men by testing images on the website, information, videoclips, etc. Therefore, the market strategy is no different, it has just opened itself to more opportunities.

you have a marketing degree? ....because the EA marketing department seems to disagree with you (as per one of the devs who even posted here in this thread)

[HolyJellyfish]

crimzontearz wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

3) You obviously know nothing about marketting. Male demographic exists and stays. It isn't going anywhere. Niching into the female demographic, however, shows potential for more money. You can do that without disenchanting men by testing images on the website, information, videoclips, etc. Therefore, the market strategy is no different, it has just opened itself to more opportunities.

you have a marketing degree? ....because the EA marketing department seems to disagree with you (as per one of the devs who even posted here in this thread)

Marketing, Graphic Design, & Advertisement.

We discussed the issues. He and I agree that the Website has no excuse not to show this information, and that's lazy marketting.

[crimzontearz]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

3) You obviously know nothing about marketting. Male demographic exists and stays. It isn't going anywhere. Niching into the female demographic, however, shows potential for more money. You can do that without disenchanting men by testing images on the website, information, videoclips, etc. Therefore, the market strategy is no different, it has just opened itself to more opportunities.

you have a marketing degree? ....because the EA marketing department seems to disagree with you (as per one of the devs who even posted here in this thread)

Marketing, Graphic Design, & Advertisement.

We discussed the issues. He and I agree that the Website has no excuse not to show this information, and that's lazy marketting.

beats me then.

but then again Marketing and Branding are not comprised by the smartest people either given what we have heard before.

[Wishpig]

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. Whaaaaaa the hawke in advertisment doesn't have my sex organ whaaaaaaa.


Edited to sum up my views quickly!

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. I wouldn't even give it a second thought were it the other way around.

You have the chance to play a fully voiced female character with her own LI's and everything. Why the hell can't you just be happy with that?

I don't appreciate my concerns being boiled down to Femhawke whining. That's not what it is.

I'm happy. I'm not interested in Bioware expanding their media via the web just for me. I'm more interested in Bioware making more money by releasing screenshots, video, some website information considering the availability of a Fem!Shep. And the reason I'm interested is because Female Gamers who have NEVER played a bioware game wouldn't know about those options otherwise, since it isn't available to them, and updating a website doesn't cost that many resources.

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. Whaaaaaa the hawke in advertisment doesn't have my sex organ whaaaaaaa.


Edited to sum up my views quickly!

How about instead of insulting me in order to make yourself feel all high and mighty, you read at least a few of my posts instead of jumping to conclusions? 

Really. This post makes you look worse than you are trying to make me feel.

[FieryDove]

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. Whaaaaaa the hawke in advertisment doesn't have my sex organ whaaaaaaa.


Edited to sum up my views quickly!

Too late:

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. I wouldn't even give it a second thought were it the other way around.

You have the chance to play a fully voiced female character with her own LI's and everything. Why the hell can't you just be happy with that?

Don't you think you are being a bit...harsh?

I remember ME1 people asking for just a screenshot or two of femshep. The answer:

"No, it would confuse people." Um ok...seeing that with the current comments from Devs/marketing -gamers are all dumb. (This includes me for even bothering to reply)

We just wanted to see what femshep looked like. Not very many even cared there was no marketing campaign for femshep. It was all sheploo and that was understood. But to have a few shots/video on the website so people could see for themselves is bad and all female gamers just like to whine. Fine, whatever.

edit: typo

Modifié par FieryDove, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. I wouldn't even give it a second thought were it the other way around.

You have the chance to play a fully voiced female character with her own LI's and everything. Why the hell can't you just be happy with that?

I don't appreciate my concerns being boiled down to Femhawke whining. That's not what it is.

I'm happy. I'm not interested in Bioware expanding their media via the web just for me. I'm more interested in Bioware making more money by releasing screenshots, video, some website information considering the availability of a Fem!Shep. And the reason I'm interested is because Female Gamers who have NEVER played a bioware game wouldn't know about those options otherwise, since it isn't available to them, and updating a website doesn't cost that many resources.

Lol, yeah, thats the age old reason... "bioware would make more money because female gamers would see a picture of a woman in a videogame and then buy the game!!!!"

Being able to play a female character in RPG's is not some super rare feature. Infact it's pretty damn common. Infact all of my favorite RPG's save Witcher and Planescape let you do it.

It's not some deal breaker thats going to suddenly sell any noticable amount of units.

How excatly do you see it playing out like this in your mind?

And are you girls REALLY that shallow you would by a game just because the main character is your sex? I mean if The Witcher stared Merigold... as long as there was a secondary dwarf character... I'd buy it!

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus I hate this femhawke whining. Whaaaaaa the hawke in advertisment doesn't have my sex organ whaaaaaaa.


Edited to sum up my views quickly!

How
about instead of insulting me in order to make yourself feel all high
and mighty, you read at least a few of my posts instead of jumping to
conclusions? 

Really. This post makes you look worse than you are trying to make me feel.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I just don't get this thought at all. Infact this all ties into this annoying sense of self enitilement everybody seems to have on these forums. This "WE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU BIOWARE" attitude.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[Aermas]

Do a google search (I believe this is the most popular way of extracting information from the internet, & i'm sure others would agree) The very first link confirms that Hawke can be a female.

[Wishpig]

FieryDove wrote...

Don't you think you are being a bit...harsh?

I remember ME1 people asking for just a screenshot or two of femshep. The answer:

"No, it would consufe people." Um ok...seeing that with the current comments from Devs/marketing -gamers are all dumb. (This includes me for even bothering to reply)

We just wanted to see what femshep looked like. Not very many even cared there was no marketing campaign for femshep. It was all sheploo and that was understood. But to have a few shots/video on the website so people could see for themselves is bad and all female gamers just like to whine. Fine, whatever.

People want a few shots and a video fine because they are curious about what she looks like. Thats more then fine. Infact I get that!

No what I'm getting at, and frankly what I flat out stated, is I'm agianst all these people who want bioware to advertise her. Because they'd think bioware would make more money, because there offended male hawke gets the attention, or ect.

I'm just sick of it! These kind of threads have been plagueing bioware forums for years... nonstop...

I just don't get it. Like I said, were it the other way around, I wouldn't freaking care one tiny little bit.

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

Do a google search (I believe this is the most popular way of extracting information from the internet, & i'm sure others would agree) The very first link confirms that Hawke can be a female.

That is if you are looking for a fem hawke.

The idea is to make this information already available to people, at least on the website. So newcomers who are casually checking the website out can go 'Oh... interesting. I didn't know you could customize the gender to.'

Its not hard to do.

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Don't you think you are being a bit...harsh?

I remember ME1 people asking for just a screenshot or two of femshep. The answer:

"No, it would consufe people." Um ok...seeing that with the current comments from Devs/marketing -gamers are all dumb. (This includes me for even bothering to reply)

We just wanted to see what femshep looked like. Not very many even cared there was no marketing campaign for femshep. It was all sheploo and that was understood. But to have a few shots/video on the website so people could see for themselves is bad and all female gamers just like to whine. Fine, whatever.

People want a few shots and a video fine because they are curious about what she looks like. Thats more then fine. Infact I get that!

No what I'm getting at, and frankly what I flat out stated, is I'm agianst all these people who want bioware to advertise her. Because they'd think bioware would make more money, because there offended male hawke gets the attention, or ect.

I'm just sick of it! These kind of threads have been plagueing bioware forums for years... nonstop...

I just don't get it. Like I said, were it the other way around, I wouldn't freaking care one tiny little bit.

And if you read anything I said on this page, you'd realize that is exactly what I'm saying.

Instead you are jumping up on me, insulting me, and boiling it down to a sense of entitlement.

All I'm asking is some clips and screenshots and INKLING that gender customizability is possible on the website.

Do that and its fair game. You get ladies interested, and maybe even guys who don't want to play a bearded aggressive male character.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Do a google search (I believe this is the most popular way of extracting information from the internet, & i'm sure others would agree) The very first link confirms that Hawke can be a female.

That is if you are looking for a fem hawke.

The idea is to make this information already available to people, at least on the website. So newcomers who are casually checking the website out can go 'Oh... interesting. I didn't know you could customize the gender to.'

Its not hard to do.

It is on the website. It says you can play a female!

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Do a google search (I believe this is the most popular way of extracting information from the internet, & i'm sure others would agree) The very first link confirms that Hawke can be a female.

That is if you are looking for a fem hawke.

The idea is to make this information already available to people, at least on the website. So newcomers who are casually checking the website out can go 'Oh... interesting. I didn't know you could customize the gender to.'

Its not hard to do.

It is on the website. It says you can play a female!

Yeah. In a stored away FAQ you have to actively search for. Even one of the Dev Market folks agreed that was silly.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And if you read anything I said on this page, you'd realize that is exactly what I'm saying.

Instead you are jumping up on me, insulting me, and boiling it down to a sense of entitlement.

All I'm asking is some clips and screenshots and INKLING that gender customizability is possible on the website.

Do that and its fair game. You get ladies interested, and maybe even guys who don't want to play a bearded aggressive male character.

I said I don't like people going "Oh bioware would make more money if the did WHAT I think they should do."

You essientially said "bioware would make more money if they did this...."

So yes. I read what you said.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And if you read anything I said on this page, you'd realize that is exactly what I'm saying.

Instead you are jumping up on me, insulting me, and boiling it down to a sense of entitlement.

All I'm asking is some clips and screenshots and INKLING that gender customizability is possible on the website.

Do that and its fair game. You get ladies interested, and maybe even guys who don't want to play a bearded aggressive male character.

I said I don't like people going "Oh bioware would make more money if the did WHAT I think they should do."

You essientially said "bioware would make more money if they did this...."

So yes. I read what you said.

And what is wrong with saying that?

Isn't that what you want Bioware to do? Make more money?

I don't like my requests and insight being boiled down to Gender Entitlement. If you have constructive information, post it. Don't insult me.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And if you read anything I said on this page, you'd realize that is exactly what I'm saying.

Instead you are jumping up on me, insulting me, and boiling it down to a sense of entitlement.

All I'm asking is some clips and screenshots and INKLING that gender customizability is possible on the website.

Do that and its fair game. You get ladies interested, and maybe even guys who don't want to play a bearded aggressive male character.

I said I don't like people going "Oh bioware would make more money if the did WHAT I think they should do."

You essientially said "bioware would make more money if they did this...."

So yes. I read what you said.

And what is wrong with saying that?

Isn't that what you want Bioware to do? Make more money?

I don't like my requests and insight being boiled down to Gender Entitlement. If you have constructive information, post it. Don't insult me.

Ya know what, yeah, I do think it's an underlying sense of gender entitlement. I think people tie it up in pretty little bow and pass if off as "but I just want to help bioware."

Why do I think this?

Cause I've seen it time and time agian, people are quick to call bioware greedy money grubbers, but then, when they want something, try to pass it off as "best for bioware, I just want you to make more money!" They hide their true intentions under the idea they want to help, as if bioware devs are really gonna fall for it.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[Aermas]

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.



Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.