516 réponses à ce sujet

[Kakistos_]

I agree with HolyJellyfish. Casual gamers only really see that which is presented to them in commercials. If the female option was advertised then more female gamers would check it out. And besides, the female gamer population is not THAT small http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

[Wishpig]

Kakistos_ wrote...

I agree with HolyJellyfish. Casual gamers only really see that which is presented to them in commercials. If the female option was advertised then more female gamers would check it out. And besides, the female gamer population is not THAT small http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

See you can't whip out results like those. Games are incredibly broad. Those statstics even include cellphone games.

Thats like expecting the marketing team behind a romance movie try to market there flick for guys because lots of guys see movies.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:16 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

And if you read anything I said on this page, you'd realize that is exactly what I'm saying.

Instead you are jumping up on me, insulting me, and boiling it down to a sense of entitlement.

All I'm asking is some clips and screenshots and INKLING that gender customizability is possible on the website.

Do that and its fair game. You get ladies interested, and maybe even guys who don't want to play a bearded aggressive male character.

I said I don't like people going "Oh bioware would make more money if the did WHAT I think they should do."

You essientially said "bioware would make more money if they did this...."

So yes. I read what you said.

And what is wrong with saying that?

Isn't that what you want Bioware to do? Make more money?

I don't like my requests and insight being boiled down to Gender Entitlement. If you have constructive information, post it. Don't insult me.

Ya know what, yeah, I do think it's an underlying sense of gender entitlement. I think people tie it up in pretty little bow and pass if off as "but I just want to help bioware."

Why do I think this?

Cause I've seen it time and time agian, people are quick to call bioware greedy money grubbers, but then, when they want something, try to pass it off as "best for bioware, I just want you to make more money!" They hide their true intentions under the idea they want to help, as if bioware devs are really gonna fall for it.

It isn't an underlying sense of gender entitlement. What it is, is you are belittling and cutting the worth of my opinion down SPECIFICALLY because you are boiling it down to 'Gender Entitlement'.

Would you do the same thing if, say, I were a guy pointing out these issues? Then it COULDN'T be gender entitlement. Because I would be a male talking about the issues of a FEMALE character.

So do not make what I'm saying less significant because of that. Doesn't offer anything constructive or create solutions. It just backs me up into a wall and makes me defensive. This is not how I like to debate.

I've never said Bioware are greedy money grubbers. Why are you clumping me up with these people?

And I've already spoken to one of the Bioware Devs, thank you. He and I agree the website needs more information. What makes me feel really lousy is that, when I say it on my own, people are jumping down on me like you have yelling 'Gender entitlement! This is silly. Who cares? What ridiculousness!' and then when I point out that the dev agreed with me that the website does need this information more readily available, then its like 'Oh... Well... I guess that's right.'

So, again, how about answering the point instead of insulting me?

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign if they added a few screen shots, a few video clips, a little bit of information on the site features itself (Without having a dig, ala the FAQ) suggesting that there is a Female Hawke available?

[ENolan]

If it comes down to it, you can just ask Aimo politely to borrow this and photoshop your DA2 Game Case Cover with the your prefered Hawke.

[Atakuma]

It's amazing how defensive some get when women dare request some representation.

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

I agree with HolyJellyfish. Casual gamers only really see that which is presented to them in commercials. If the female option was advertised then more female gamers would check it out. And besides, the female gamer population is not THAT small http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

See you can't whip out results like those. Games are incredibly broad. Those statstics even include cellphone games.

Thats like expecting the marketing team behind a romance movie try to market there flick for guys because lots of guys see movies.

That's not true at all.

For one - Dragon Age 2 has a CHUNK of Female writers. So the story, the plot, and the characters are meant to be gender neutral so that both audiences are interested in the material.

So if the story is being written with this gender neutrality in mind, why not add a little bit of that idea to the website?

I'm not asking for a complete redo of the current campaign. That would be mad.

Just some website material.

[HolyJellyfish]

Atakuma wrote...

It's amazing how defensive some get when women dare request some representation.

Its like a downhill battle.

I'm really tired of posting my ideas, and having them cut down with insults instead of Constructive information.

So far one of the only people whose actually been open, thoughtful, and hasn't boiled anything I've said down to screaming ovaries is The Exile.

[Aermas]

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

[Maria Caliban]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

For one - Dragon Age 2 has a CHUNK of Female writers.

I believe the correct name for a group of female writers is a murder. Or maybe it's a suicide. I always get the names confused.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
It isn't an underlying sense of gender entitlement. What it is, is you are belittling and cutting the worth of my opinion down SPECIFICALLY because you are boiling it down to 'Gender Entitlement'.

Would you do the same thing if, say, I were a guy pointing out these issues? Then it COULDN'T be gender entitlement. Because I would be a male talking about the issues of a FEMALE character.

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign if they added a few screen shots, a few video clips, a little bit of information on the site features itself (Without having a dig, ala the FAQ) suggesting that there is a Female Hawke available?

No but your not a guy are you. If roles were reversed and a guy was whining about wanting a guy character advertised, yes, I would say that was gender entitlement.

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign. Tough question. I don't work in marketing... so my points are about as valid as yours.

I would say it wouldn't matter. Female hawke would be just another fantasy character in a video/picture unless it was spelled out you can play a female character.

And if there was a picture or video of female hawke saying YOU CAN PLAY AS A FEMALE! I would think WTF? Thats really one of their selling points? I expect that in a fantasy RPG... why are they pointing that out... whats so special about that?

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

I
agree with HolyJellyfish. Casual gamers only really see that which is
presented to them in commercials. If the female option was advertised
then more female gamers would check it out. And besides, the female
gamer population is not THAT small
http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp

See you can't whip out results like those. Games are incredibly broad. Those statstics even include cellphone games.

Thats
like expecting the marketing team behind a romance movie try to market
there flick for guys because lots of guys see movies.

That's not true at all.

For
one - Dragon Age 2 has a CHUNK of Female writers. So the story, the
plot, and the characters are meant to be gender neutral so that both
audiences are interested in the material.

So if the story is being written with this gender neutrality in mind, why not add a little bit of that idea to the website?

I'm not asking for a complete redo of the current campaign. That would be mad.

Just some website material.

You
misunderstood me. I'm saying the idea of using those statistics to say
"females are a huge part of the target audiance" is faulty. I know allot
of girls who play wii/itunes/cell phone games. Only one who plays
fantasy RPG's and she is no casual gamer.

That was my point.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

No but your not a guy are you. If roles were reversed and a guy was whining about wanting a guy character advertised, yes, I would say that was gender entitlement.

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign. Tough question. I don't work in marketing... so my points are about as valid as yours.

I would say it wouldn't matter. Female hawke would be just another fantasy character in a video/picture unless it was spelled out you can play a female character.

And if there was a picture or video of female hawke saying YOU CAN PLAY AS A FEMALE! I would think WTF? Thats really one of their selling points? I expect that in a fantasy RPG... why are they pointing that out... whats so special about that?

Actually, I work in marketting & advertisement. Thank you very much.

I'm just going to repose what The Exile said, since I thought it sums up my feelings pretty strongly.

The Exile wrote...
I know what you're saying. What I'm trying to say is that we need more data before we can know that you're right.

But I agree with you. It's stupid that the website doesn't comment on this when they could clearly explain the feature.

ETA:

Burying in the FAQ doesn't really count. Not very many people would look at an FAQ, at least IMO.

[Aermas]

Wishpig wrote...


No but your not a guy are you. If roles were reversed and a guy was whining about wanting a guy character advertised, yes, I would say that was gender entitlement.

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign. Tough question. I don't work in marketing... so my points are about as valid as yours.

I would say it wouldn't matter. Female hawke would be just another fantasy character in a video/picture unless it was spelled out you can play a female character.

And if there was a picture or video of female hawke saying YOU CAN PLAY AS A FEMALE! I would think WTF? Thats really one of their selling points? I expect that in a fantasy RPG... why are they pointing that out... whats so special about that?

Gender Diversity is a selling point, people want to play their own gender usually..

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

Again, if you casually heard of Dragon Age, or saw the advertisement via youtube or however your attention was piqued, most people have a tendency to jump onto the first page and immediately make their judgement call.

Most of my design & market work involves website design. These are well known facts.

[crimzontearz]

I'm not understanding this....



it's been brought up literally hundreds of times and the answer has always been the same "NO"



so why in hell is this still going on????

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

No but your not a guy are you. If roles were reversed and a guy was whining about wanting a guy character advertised, yes, I would say that was gender entitlement.

Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign. Tough question. I don't work in marketing... so my points are about as valid as yours.

I would say it wouldn't matter. Female hawke would be just another fantasy character in a video/picture unless it was spelled out you can play a female character.

And if there was a picture or video of female hawke saying YOU CAN PLAY AS A FEMALE! I would think WTF? Thats really one of their selling points? I expect that in a fantasy RPG... why are they pointing that out... whats so special about that?

Actually, I work in marketting & advertisement. Thank you very much.

I'm just going to repose what The Exile said, since I thought it sums up my feelings pretty strongly.

The Exile wrote...
I know what you're saying. What I'm trying to say is that we need more data before we can know that you're right.

But I agree with you. It's stupid that the website doesn't comment on this when they could clearly explain the feature.

ETA:

Burying in the FAQ doesn't really count. Not very many people would look at an FAQ, at least IMO.

Lol ohhh the whole "I know what I'm talking about because thats actually what I do for a living" statement. Good easy way to make your points seem valid huh? I went to school for game design! See, now it seems I have knowledge then the average joe on these forums.


Only I changed majors to anthropology and don't really know much about game design. But its easy to lie in a forum isn't it?

You might be in advertisment but ya need to prove it.

[HolyJellyfish]

crimzontearz wrote...

I'm not understanding this....

it's been brought up literally hundreds of times and the answer has always been the same "NO"

so why in hell is this still going on????

Because if the conversation continues, then the issue still stands.

Things won't change unless people keep pressing the issue.

If you are so surprised and not understanding, maybe you shouldn't be on this thread topic. I'm looking for constructive ideas, I'm not here to feel beaten down.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:33 .

[Aermas]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

Again, if you casually heard of Dragon Age, or saw the advertisement via youtube or however your attention was piqued, most people have a tendency to jump onto the first page and immediately make their judgement call.

Most of my design & market work involves website design. These are well known facts.

If I heard of a game, I would google it & search around on its website a little, I would also most definitely look at the FAQ as that is where all the most important info is. 

Modifié par Aermas, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:34 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...
Lol ohhh the whole "I know what I'm talking about because thats actually what I do for a living" statement. Good easy way to make your points seem valid huh? I went to school for game design! See, now it seems I have knowledge then the average joe on these forums.


Only I changed majors to anthropology and don't really know much about game design. But its easy to lie in a forum isn't it?

You might be in advertisment but ya need to prove it.

Again, you are insulting me without offering any constructive advice.

You are making yourself look worse than you are trying to make me feel.

And if you need proof in order to take what I have to say seriously, these are the companies I work for freelance, specifically online marketting materials and graphic design.

Nike.com
****magazine.com
wk.com
titmouse.net

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[KIrving]

Wishpig wrote...
No what I'm getting at, and frankly what I
flat out stated, is I'm agianst all these people who want bioware to
advertise her. Because they'd think bioware would make more money,
because there offended male hawke gets the attention, or ect.

I'm just sick of it! These kind of threads have been plagueing bioware forums for years... nonstop...

Doesn't that tell you something then?!
Also if you really don't care what you get to play or how they advertise then I don't see your point.

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign if they added a few screen shots, a few video clips, a little bit of information on the site features itself (Without having a dig, ala the FAQ) suggesting that there is a Female Hawke available?

No it wouldn't hurt.  It would only help.  I've seen so many posts where people didn't know that Shepard could be female and when they found out they immediately decided to buy the game.  How many potential customers never found out?

[Wishpig]

Aermas wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

Again, if you casually heard of Dragon Age, or saw the advertisement via youtube or however your attention was piqued, most people have a tendency to jump onto the first page and immediately make their judgement call.

Most of my design & market work involves website design. These are well known facts.

If I heard of a game, I would google it & search around on its website a little, I would also most definitely look at the FAQ as that is where all the most important info is. 

It's not like a $5 dollar toy. It's $60 freaking dollars. People don't tend to buy games on a whim. And even if the person was going to buy it on the spot, they certainly wouldn't be swayed by a picture or video of a female character. How would they know she is a playible character.

And if bioware tries to point out the fact you can play a female, it will look cheesy. Thats a terrible selling point as MANY RPGs have that feature. And they have to pick their selling points wisley.

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Again, you are insulting me without offering any constructive advice.

You are making yourself look worse than you are trying to make me feel.

And
if you need proof in order to take what I have to say seriously, these
are the companies I work for freelance, specifically online marketting
materials and graphic design.

Nike.com
****magazine.com
wk.com
titmouse.net

Oh now I beleave you. I work for

IsmellBS.com

You may know my company. You must hear from them allot.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:41 .

[HolyJellyfish]

KIrving wrote...

Wishpig wrote...
No what I'm getting at, and frankly what I
flat out stated, is I'm agianst all these people who want bioware to
advertise her. Because they'd think bioware would make more money,
because there offended male hawke gets the attention, or ect.

I'm just sick of it! These kind of threads have been plagueing bioware forums for years... nonstop...

Doesn't that tell you something then?!
Also if you really don't care what you get to play or how they advertise then I don't see your point.

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Would it hurt Dragon Age 2's campaign if they added a few screen shots, a few video clips, a little bit of information on the site features itself (Without having a dig, ala the FAQ) suggesting that there is a Female Hawke available?

No it wouldn't hurt.  It would only help.  I've seen so many posts where people didn't know that Shepard could be female and when they found out they immediately decided to buy the game.  How many potential customers never found out?

I was one of them, that's why I'm pushing this topic so hard.

I heard about how outstanding Mass Effect was, but as I was searching through the site and I actually investigated it pretty deeply, I thought you were stuck playing a macho male character whose voice actor I really couldn't swallow. There were no hints that you could change the appearance or the gender. So I chose not to try.

I had no idea you could play a female Shepard until I HAPPENED to come across a Youtube Fan trailer of Fem! Shepard. That to me is lazy, if Bioware is relying on word of mouth to get those features out.

So I wonder just how many other people were in my place. I imagine there are probably quite a few. I had to explain it to a lot of my girlfriends that you could change the gender of the character, and they were shocked. They had no idea. Next thing you know, they've bought the game.

[Wishpig]

So you wouldn't play Mass Effect because you didn't want to play a guy... only willing to play if you could be a female.

Pretty close minded view there champ. No gender entitlement. Lol. My sex or I don't buy!

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Aermas]

When was the last BioWare game that did not include a female option? I think that BioWare has a reputation of being female friendly in terms of player-character options

[HolyJellyfish]

Wishpig wrote...

Aermas wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

Again, if you casually heard of Dragon Age, or saw the advertisement via youtube or however your attention was piqued, most people have a tendency to jump onto the first page and immediately make their judgement call.

Most of my design & market work involves website design. These are well known facts.

If I heard of a game, I would google it & search around on its website a little, I would also most definitely look at the FAQ as that is where all the most important info is. 

It's not like a $5 dollar toy. It's $60 freaking dollars. People don't tend to buy games on a whim. And even if the person was going to buy it on the spot, they certainly wouldn't be swayed by a picture or video of a female character. How would they know she is a playible character.

And if bioware tries to point out the fact you can play a female, it will look cheesy. Thats a terrible selling point as MANY RPGs have that feature. And they have to pick their selling points wisley.

And that's the market Bioware is currently aiming for in DA2. They WANT to attract the casual gamer. Why do you think they stripped most of the slow combat out of the game, and offered a hack-slash alternative?

My other website is alyxdesigns.com

You are probably one of the most insulting people I have ever had the displeasure of talking to on the forums.

So unless you have something constructive and thoughtful to say to me, I'm kind of done with you.