516 réponses à ce sujet

[Aermas]

Wishpig wrote...

So you wouldn't play Mass Effect because you didn't want to play a guy... only willing to play if you could be a female.

Pretty close minded view there champ. No gender entitlement. Lol. My sex or I don't buy!

Don't you see that it was a selling point for her? Gender Diversity is a selling point.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Aermas wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If you limit the searcher to only looking at the front page & not searching into anything else of course you won't find what you're looking for! You even deny the searcher from looking into the FAQ! Why not tell someone to look for a chicken except they can't look at a farm.

Who doesn't look into the FAQ page? You make a broad assumption that no one does.

I'm guessing you didn't see this because it was at the bottom of the page

Again, if you casually heard of Dragon Age, or saw the advertisement via youtube or however your attention was piqued, most people have a tendency to jump onto the first page and immediately make their judgement call.

Most of my design & market work involves website design. These are well known facts.

If I heard of a game, I would google it & search around on its website a little, I would also most definitely look at the FAQ as that is where all the most important info is. 

It's not like a $5 dollar toy. It's $60 freaking dollars. People don't tend to buy games on a whim. And even if the person was going to buy it on the spot, they certainly wouldn't be swayed by a picture or video of a female character. How would they know she is a playible character.

And if bioware tries to point out the fact you can play a female, it will look cheesy. Thats a terrible selling point as MANY RPGs have that feature. And they have to pick their selling points wisley.

And that's the market Bioware is currently aiming for in DA2. They WANT to attract the casual gamer. Why do you think they stripped most of the slow combat out of the game, and offered a hack-slash alternative?

My other website is alyxdesigns.com

You are probably one of the most insulting people I have ever had the displeasure of talking to on the forums.

So unless you have something constructive and thoughtful to say to me, I'm kind of done with you.

TTFN!

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

When was the last BioWare game that did not include a female option? I think that BioWare has a reputation of being female friendly in terms of player-character options

But it isn't advertised at all, except through word of mouth.

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

So you wouldn't play Mass Effect because you didn't want to play a guy... only willing to play if you could be a female.

Pretty close minded view there champ. No gender entitlement. Lol. My sex or I don't buy!

Don't you see that it was a selling point for her? Gender Diversity is a selling point.

Agreed.

[KIrving]

Wishpig wrote...
It's not like a $5 dollar toy. It's $60 freaking dollars. People don't tend to buy games on a whim. And even if the person was going to buy it on the spot, they certainly wouldn't be swayed by a picture or video of a female character. How would they know she is a playible character.

And if bioware tries to point out the fact you can play a female, it will look cheesy. Thats a terrible selling point as MANY RPGs have that feature. And they have to pick their selling points wisley.

If I see a female on the cover of a game I immediately pick it up and check the box for information.  If the box isn't clear enough about whether the protagonist's gender can be selected then I'll put some time into researching the game online.  Pictures definitely draw me in and get me enthused. 
So advertising character customization as a selling point for an RPG is cheezy?  

[crimzontearz]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...




I'm not understanding this....




it's been brought up literally hundreds of times and the answer has always been the same "NO"




so why in hell is this still going on????

Because if the conversation continues, then the issue still stands.




Things won't change unless people keep pressing the issue.




If you are so surprised and not understanding, maybe you shouldn't be on this thread topic. I'm looking for constructive ideas, I'm not here to feel beaten down.

hun....honestly noconstructive idea is gonna change this decision from the marketing department even tho I do wish you all the luck in the world...

[Aermas]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

When was the last BioWare game that did not include a female option? I think that BioWare has a reputation of being female friendly in terms of player-character options

But it isn't advertised at all, except through word of mouth.

How often is it advertised that Coke comes in glass bottles? Yet people know that it does.

[Andy Luvv]

I am SO supporting this thread.

I am a male and I love to play with female characters. As shallow as that sounds, that's a BIG selling point for me. "Can I make my own character?"

From videos I've seen, both male and female Hawks seem SO limiting it's sad! The big selling point for DAO for me was the fact that I could make my character, choose where it came from and how that would affect his story.



I felt important playing as a female noble, I felt prejudiced as playing a female elf...and I was amazed by it all.



Now please, allow us to make some good female characters and ADVERTISE them! Mass Effect 2 was sad as they all looked SO generic as I can see the same pattern following with DA2.



Bioware, PLEASE we are RPGers! We want to make our characters and fit their shoes!

[HolyJellyfish]

crimzontearz wrote...

hun....honestly noconstructive idea is gonna change this decision from the marketing department even tho I do wish you all the luck in the world...

I disagree.

Bioware recently released a combat-trailer, showing people how they could play the game. In the line up of Male Hawkes, there were also female Hawkes. Whether or not this decision was independent of female and male gamers pressing to see more exposure over the Female Hawke, I'm not sure. But its definitely a step up.

And I've offered constructive ideas. I'm not just protesting for the sake of protesting. Nothing gets done unless you have a dialogue.

[Wishpig]

Aermas wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

So you wouldn't play Mass Effect because you didn't want to play a guy... only willing to play if you could be a female.

Pretty close minded view there champ. No gender entitlement. Lol. My sex or I don't buy!

Don't you see that it was a selling point for her? Gender Diversity is a selling point.

Thats kind of shallow don't you think.

Besides it's one selling point amongst tons of possible selling points... and you can't advertise them all. It's a very common thing in western RPGs to play male or female. Not excatly a fantastic selling point.

And who KNOWS what the people on the marketing team were talking about. There might be secondary effects that aren't positive.

For example, some guys have attached a stygma to guys playing female characters. It's stupid, especially in a single player game... but it is VERY much there. Marketing may be trying to avoid any confusion.

Of course confusion can easily be avoided by saying you can play as a girl character.

BUT once agian thats a stupid thing to advertise as it is a typical feature. You advertise typical features and it sounds like you don't have anything unique to advertise.

[Maria Caliban]

The amount of female buyers doesn't actually matter as no matter the percentage, media is geared to men. This is because female consumers will see movies, play games, read book, and watch TV where the leads are male and the content is 'masculine' while male consumers do not do the same for entertainment where the leads are female and content is 'feminine.'

If you want guy money, you have to create 'masculine' content. If you want gal money, you just have to create content.*


*I'm talking trends here. The is obviously not true for all men and women. And when I say 'masculine' and 'feminine,' I mean how that content is marketed and perceived.

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

When was the last BioWare game that did not include a female option? I think that BioWare has a reputation of being female friendly in terms of player-character options

But it isn't advertised at all, except through word of mouth.

How often is it advertised that Coke comes in glass bottles? Yet people know that it does.

Coke is a bit more universal. A lot of gamers don't even know Bioware exists. Their company is just now picking up a lot of attention after the various awards and outstanding reviewers after the eve of Mass Effect 2. You can ask any game salesman.

[zambixi]

Aermas wrote...

How often is it advertised that Coke comes in glass bottles? Yet people know that it does.

Coke formerly came in glass bottles, way back when.  The "classic" coke commercials do, in fact advertise the glass bottles, as do most of the Christmas commercials.  People who buy the glass-bottled coke usually do so because they are looking for a classic type feel, and so those commercials are targeted towards them.  If they don't learn about the glass bottles from the commercials, they learn about it by seeing them in stores, or word of mouth.

If there's nothing on the DA2 website about a FemHawke (other than in the FAQs) then well...

[HolyJellyfish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The amount of female buyers doesn't actually matter as no matter the percentage, media is geared to men. This is because female consumers will see movies, play games, read book, and watch TV where the leads are male and the content is 'masculine' while male consumers do not do the same for entertainment where the leads are female and content is 'feminine.'

If you want guy money, you have to create 'masculine' content. If you want gal money, you just have to create content.*


*I'm talking trends here. The is obviously not true for all men and women. And when I say 'masculine' and 'feminine,' I mean how that content is marketed and perceived.

This trend is definitely not true for the gaming industry, too. Fable has a pretty big lady following, and it may have to do with their open gender marketting strategies.

[Aermas]

No, I don't think it's shallow. If I can't play the kind of character I want, then I don't play the game. It's one of the reasons I loathe JRPGs.

[Andy Luvv]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

So you wouldn't play Mass Effect because you didn't want to play a guy... only willing to play if you could be a female.

Pretty close minded view there champ. No gender entitlement. Lol. My sex or I don't buy!

Don't you see that it was a selling point for her? Gender Diversity is a selling point.

Agreed.

If Bioware is so gender friendly, isn't it about time we have a female "standard" hero? 

[HolyJellyfish]

Its not a big task, really. Just website materials. Make it obvious you can create your own hero, and that gender plays a part in it. You can still push the story while driving home features that are unique to that game.

[HolyJellyfish]

Andy Luvv wrote...
If Bioware is so gender friendly, isn't it about time we have a female "standard" hero? 

I always heard that the Female hero in KOTOR was considered Canon to the writers, at least as they were working on the story. The cover never featured a gendered character, which was nice.

[crimzontearz]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...




hun....honestly noconstructive idea is gonna change this decision from the marketing department even tho I do wish you all the luck in the world...

I disagree.




Bioware recently released a combat-trailer, showing people how they could play the game. In the line up of Male Hawkes, there were also female Hawkes. Whether or not this decision was independent of female and male gamers pressing to see more exposure over the Female Hawke, I'm not sure. But its definitely a step up.




And I've offered constructive ideas. I'm not just protesting for the sake of protesting. Nothing gets done unless you have a dialogue.

that was the demo interface hon....


Same one used at Lucca and other major events.




I am wishing you all the luck in the world hell WE did have luck with the NG+ situation in ME2 even tho that sounded hopeless but this one decision is left to the marketing department alone and I have ZERO faith in them

[Aermas]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The amount of female buyers doesn't actually matter as no matter the percentage, media is geared to men. This is because female consumers will see movies, play games, read book, and watch TV where the leads are male and the content is 'masculine' while male consumers do not do the same for entertainment where the leads are female and content is 'feminine.'

If you want guy money, you have to create 'masculine' content. If you want gal money, you just have to create content.*


*I'm talking trends here. The is obviously not true for all men and women. And when I say 'masculine' and 'feminine,' I mean how that content is marketed and perceived.

That reminds me of this shampoo commercial I saw for woman, talking about the vitamins & quality of the product, & then a different commercial about the same shampoo for men, only they just used words like "man-hide" & such.

[Wishpig]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Andy Luvv wrote...
If Bioware is so gender friendly, isn't it about time we have a female "standard" hero? 

I always heard that the Female hero in KOTOR was considered Canon to the writers, at least as they were working on the story. The cover never featured a gendered character, which was nice.

I know you're in not talking to me mode... and I know KOTOR 2 wasn't bioware.

But I'm pretty sure the main character from KOTOR is considered male in canon but the main character in KOTOR 2 is considered female in canon.

Modifié par Wishpig, 20 décembre 2010 - 03:05 .

[Morroian]

Wishpig wrote...

Thats kind of shallow don't you think.

We've had people swearing off DA2 because they can't play elves or dwarves, are they shallow too? Its not like holyjellyfish is asking for something thats unreasonable.

Modifié par Morroian, 20 décembre 2010 - 03:06 .

[What is this]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

What is this wrote...

to 1:  They did release screenshots of fem shep closer to release for ME2, and i remember a few youtube videos of femShep as well, not sure if they were official but they sure as hell surfaced.
2:THey don't need to Reveal the whole game on the website, They state it very clearly you can choose male or female if you look at the site for 5 seconds. They have a few screens of femhawke already they don't need one of every animation
3:Lol, You obviously know nothing about demographic, Male customers are more valuable in this video game market because there are more of them and more money to be made, not out of sexism (tired of hearing the word sexist on these threads)
You don't market Tanning lotion to black people, that doesn't make it racism
You don't market Toys to adults, that dosen't make it ageism
you don't market games to Females, that dosen't make it sexism.

4:Marketing isn't as easy as it looks. To get in the field you ussually need a 2 yeardegree atleast. Not as simple as "Put Brand  name on billboard=SELL SELL SELL" 

1) They DID release screenshots. Only, its not on the website. They gave them specifically to the fan community. Youtube videos? Not official. Doesn't count. Hard to find, especially in the beginning.

2) No. You don't have to reveal the whole game. I didn't realize showing off a glimpse of female hawke was... revealing the whole game. And have you been to the website? Because clearly you haven't. There are no screen grabs of female hawke or any indication that she exists, unless you actively look in the FAQ. And who is going to do that? You can't tell me that would be 'lazy' of the ladies, that's just normal. It shouldn't take but a few minutes to find out that kind of info.

3) You obviously know nothing about marketting. Male demographic exists and stays. It isn't going anywhere. Niching into the female demographic, however, shows potential for more money. You can do that without disenchanting men by testing images on the website, information, videoclips, etc. Therefore, the market strategy is no different, it has just opened itself to more opportunities.

Think of it this way - You wouldn't pass by a twenty dollar bill, and completely ignore it on your way to grabbing a fifty dollar one. If you were smart, you'd pick them both up.

And yes, if you don't market games to Females when those games are clearly made so women can play (Look at the writing staff. A chunk of them are female. The story is written by women, with few exceptions), that is a sign of stereotyped marketting.

I rest my case.

I just want Bioware to read this, and I'm tired of posters jumping on here mocking what I'm saying.

I'm not asking much. Just throw some information on the website, you'll make more money in the long run.

Uck here we go again. 
1. I ussually look my games up on youtube b4 i play them. Just because they're not official dosen't mean they don't count

2. They have only shown a glimpes of everything on the website, i think they have like 15 screenshots total and only 1 actual gameplay video.  It's early on they will release more screens of FEm hawke closer to release, and it only does take a few minutes to find out that info, But you're missing the point how many Ladies do you think actually visit the site at all? Or even know dragon age exsist, it's an incredibly small market and those who know about DA and are intrested in it probaly will look under game info to know what they're going to buy. Is anyone really going to simply look at the homepage and say"oh looks it's a male F*** this game i won't look anymore into it"  Marketing is targeting there core demographic.

3. How do you expect them to Niche into a female demograhpic when there is none to be had?Under 10% of gamers are female even less are probaly into tactical story heavy RPGS. They will release Official femhawke screenshots closer to release. the game is still 4months away and have revealed next to nothing at all. But it's ridicolous to expect them to release a screenshot of Femhawke in every in game position considering most female players i Imagine will change her to there liking. Each screenshot they release draws more criticism on the game as well, DA2 isn't a pretty game from what we've seen so far and each screenshotreinforces that. sometimes the less they know the better.
and to the sterotyped marketing bit:
Sterotyped marketing lol? that's not even a proper term. If a man writes a chick Flick does that mean it's for men?
You may not be asking for much in YOUR view, but marketing cares to disagree.

[HolyJellyfish]

crimzontearz wrote...

that was the demo interface hon....

Same one used at Lucca and other major events.

I am wishing you all the luck in the world hell WE did have luck with the NG+ situation in ME2 even tho that sounded hopeless but this one decision is left to the marketing department alone and I have ZERO faith in them

At least it was showcased, and if that's one step to take, then let it be.

I would just love to see more women play the game, or at least an acknowledgement from the department that they appreciate both genders equally despite marketting materials. I say this because there are so few games that represent women, and bioware has potential to get a really nice female market when they've predominately been ignored by the industry.

Just tapping into it a little bit could reap some wonderful profits, and it legitimizes a lot of people's game playing experiences.

Thank you for the support, and I appreciate your concerns, but I don't think its anything to be concerned about. I just think its an issue that needs to be pressed.

[Aermas]

Wishpig wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Andy Luvv wrote...
If Bioware is so gender friendly, isn't it about time we have a female "standard" hero? 

I always heard that the Female hero in KOTOR was considered Canon to the writers, at least as they were working on the story. The cover never featured a gendered character, which was nice.

I know you're in not talking to me mode... and I know KOTOR 2 wasn't bioware.

But I'm pretty sure the main character from KOTOR is considered male in canon but the main character in KOTOR 2 is considered female in canon.

So the Jedi gave the character a mind wipe & a sex change?
The character in both KOTOR & KOTOR 2 is the same