516 réponses à ce sujet

[What is this]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

What is this wrote...

A more specific study that includes a more strict term of what Female gamers constitute.

Mind sourcing that?

There isn't one,
Thats the point. There is no indication that there is any real market to be had within female games for dragon age.
All the studies use far to broad terms of what constitutes a game and a gamer in the market and are not very reliable for that reason.

[Saibh]

What is this wrote...

40% is ridicolous for Dragon age,
Do you think your 76 year old mother or 9 year old daughter would be intrested in DA?

This is what you sound like right now:

"Ah yes, 'studies'. An application of scientific method to produce accurate data to further the pursuit of knowledge. I have dismissed that claim."

or maybe

"Ah, yes, "girl gamers". I don't like them. I have dismissed that claim."

Modifié par Saibh, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[What is this]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

What is this wrote...

But i'm just saying that 40% includes Wii fit and guitar hero,

In 2004?

Flash games, They could own an old NES, They could playtetris, It's too broad and the study gives little specific data into the female market and is thus flawed for this situation.

[SarEnyaDor]

"Hardcore" is about as specific as "pretty."



I think that guy who died playing WoW was pretty hardcore, I really hope that most gamers aren't hardcore like that.

[ejoslin]

What is this wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


My mom loves it.  My child is not allowed to play it

Well then your mom is probaly a rarity, and your probaly a good parent.

But i'm just saying that 40% includes Wii fit and guitar hero, Which is popular in the female gaming market but what i would call hardcore games like dragon age, not so much.

You know, back when I played MMOs, when ventrillo first became common, there were a LOT of guys who were shocked that so many of these female characters who were claiming to be women actually were women.

The woman market is vastly underestimated.  And while i agree that my mom is a rarity, women gamers, even women who like action and rpgs, are far more common than a lot of people realize.  Most women I know play on computers, not consoles, though.

Rockband IS fun for parties, I will admit.  But that's only one game that I play, out of MANY.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:07 .

[upsettingshorts]

Debating how many girl gamers exist is beside the point. The number that actually matters is:

* Number of girl gamers who would like, or at the very least would buy, Dragon Age 2 - or any other game for which the same issue applies - if not for the male protagonist on the cover.

If anyone can genuinely figure that one out, they should probably write a formal proposal and mail it to Bioware/EA.

[What is this]

Saibh wrote...

What is this wrote...

40% is ridicolous for Dragon age,
Do you think your 76 year old mother or 9 year old daughter would be intrested in DA?

This is what you sound like right now:

"Ah yes, 'studies'. An application of scientific method to produce accurate data to further the pursuit of knowledge. I have dismissed that claim."

or maybe

"Ah, yes, "girl gamers". I don't like them. I have dismissed that claim."

Yes I disagree with you so i am sexist and wish girl gamers don't exsist,
classy.

Just because a study is there does not make it accurate to the situation. It's too broad for this situation of Dragon age marketing, Many girls play tetris,Farmville, and  rockband. But how many play Dragon age?
You can't honestly believe that 40% of the potential DA market would be to females?

[syllogi]

Saibh wrote...

What is this wrote...

40% is ridicolous for Dragon age,
Do you think your 76 year old mother or 9 year old daughter would be intrested in DA?

This is what you sound like right now:

"Ah yes, 'studies'. An application of scientific method to produce accurate data to further the pursuit of knowledge. I have dismissed that claim."

or maybe

"Ah, yes, "girl gamers". I don't like them. I have dismissed that claim."

Which is why posters like this should just be ignored.  You can show them cold, hard statistics, and they will continue to try to explain why women should not "count" as "real" gamers.

Fantasy RPGs where one can play as a female, with romance options...NO, women would not like that at all!!!  They are too busy knitting and playing Poniez for DS, LOL.

Yeah, ignore them.  The only naysayers I'm concerned about anymore are the ones who work for Bioware.

[Indifferent_Mike]

t

[Wulfram]

EA probably has a decent idea of the proportion of players of Bioware games who are female. If they don't, they're not doing their job properly.

edit: they should also have a decent idea of the proportion of people who played female characters in Origins, which is probably more relevant.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[What is this]

ejoslin wrote...

What is this wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


My mom loves it.  My child is not allowed to play it

Well then your mom is probaly a rarity, and your probaly a good parent.

But i'm just saying that 40% includes Wii fit and guitar hero, Which is popular in the female gaming market but what i would call hardcore games like dragon age, not so much.

You know, back when I played MMOs, when ventrillo first became common, there were a LOT of guys who were shocked that so many of these female characters who were claiming to be women actually were women.

The woman market is vastly underestimated.  And while i agree that my mom is a rarity, women gamers, even women who like action and rpgs, are far more common than a lot of people realize.  Most women I know play on computers, not consoles, though.

Rockband IS fun for parties, I will admit.  But that's only one game that I play, out of MANY.

And i don't doubt that there is some female market to be had,
I'm simply saying that Bioware marketing team is focusing on males because the majiorty of people who will end up buying there game are male so they give them screenshots and videos first.. I think it's premature to say Bioware is ignoring the female market when they still have 4 months b4 release. and i think they will release more screenshots of femhawke closer to release.

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Debating how many girl gamers exist is beside the point. The number that actually matters is:
* Number of girl gamers who would like, or at the very least would buy, Dragon Age 2 - or any other game for which the same issue applies - if not for the male protagonist on the cover.
If anyone can genuinely figure that one out, they should probably write a formal proposal and mail it to Bioware/EA.

I agree. I think he's right about a number of things, but his central premise is entirely flawed. I'm a statistics ****.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[What is this]

TeenZombie wrote...

Saibh wrote...

What is this wrote...

40% is ridicolous for Dragon age,
Do you think your 76 year old mother or 9 year old daughter would be intrested in DA?

This is what you sound like right now:

"Ah yes, 'studies'. An application of scientific method to produce accurate data to further the pursuit of knowledge. I have dismissed that claim."

or maybe

"Ah, yes, "girl gamers". I don't like them. I have dismissed that claim."

Which is why posters like this should just be ignored.  You can show them cold, hard statistics, and they will continue to try to explain why women should not "count" as "real" gamers.

Fantasy RPGs where one can play as a female, with romance options...NO, women would not like that at all!!!  They are too busy knitting and playing Poniez for DS, LOL.

Yeah, ignore them.  The only naysayers I'm concerned about anymore are the ones who work for Bioware.

And i believe one has replied to this thread and gave you a reasonable explanation which you ignored.
The study is not accurate because it does not constitute what the consider to the percentage of females who play games? doe sfarmville count? does tetris? But i have said this several times.

Keep calling me sexist all you want, it does not invalidate my view.

[Ziggeh]

What is this wrote...

Flash games, They could own an old NES, They could playtetris, It's too broad and the study gives little specific data into the female market and is thus flawed for this situation.

This goes both ways. How much of that figure is made up of guys who buy Madden or Fifa once a year?

[ejoslin]

What is this wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

You know, back when I played MMOs, when ventrillo first became common, there were a LOT of guys who were shocked that so many of these female characters who were claiming to be women actually were women.

The woman market is vastly underestimated.  And while i agree that my mom is a rarity, women gamers, even women who like action and rpgs, are far more common than a lot of people realize.  Most women I know play on computers, not consoles, though.

Rockband IS fun for parties, I will admit.  But that's only one game that I play, out of MANY.

And i don't doubt that there is some female market to be had,
I'm simply saying that Bioware marketing team is focusing on males because the majiorty of people who will end up buying there game are male so they give them screenshots and videos first.. I think it's premature to say Bioware is ignoring the female market when they still have 4 months b4 release. and i think they will release more screenshots of femhawke closer to release.

the thing is, there IS a woman market, and if they're advertised to as well, then you have more women buying the games.  And the potential buyers are not insignificant.  ESPECIALLY if there is content that is aimed at women (as there was in DAO).  You would think that they would want women to be aware that there is content aimed at them in their product.

Edit; i really hope that in DA2 there is still content aimed at women.  this IS an assumption I'm making, of course.

 

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:20 .

[What is this]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Debating how many girl gamers exist is beside the point. The number that actually matters is:
* Number of girl gamers who would like, or at the very least would buy, Dragon Age 2 - or any other game for which the same issue applies - if not for the male protagonist on the cover.
If anyone can genuinely figure that one out, they should probably write a formal proposal and mail it to Bioware/EA.

I agree. I think he's right about a number of things, but his central premise is entirly flawed. I'm a statistics ****.

But the statistics aren't accurate to games like draogn age. I ackolwdge there is a large amount of females who play games, but that dosen't mean they like games like dragon in the most part.
These studies are far too broad and give little insight to more focused markets like DA because of it.

[SarEnyaDor]

I would really love What is this, and others, to explain exactly what makes a gamer "hardcore" in their mind... is it the money spent on games, thoe hours played daily, weekly, monthly on a single game, or all games in general? If the player can manage to play an entire game without destroying a controller or something else out of frustration do they lose their hardocre status?



Don't you realize how you sound when you decide that these "girl gamers" can't be hardcore gamers and therefore do not count?



Personally, if there is a girl out there dropping 100 bucks a month on games and spending 8 hours a day on Rockband, she's more hardcore than her brother who plays Halo online once a week with his friends and clocks an hour a night trying to get Morrigan's approval up enough, but not too much.



I also think people who spend hours playing a game, and then talking about a game on a game forum makes them hardcore enough to be counted.



Or how about this -> stop trying to label people and then dismiss them if they don't fit that label?

[HolyJellyfish]

I am so tired of this thread. The only reason it was put out there was so that we could tell Bioware that they shouldn't forget the ladies during their advertisement, even if it means a little bit of web content that acknowledges they have a female fanbase and it is gender neutral friendly



But the only thing I see on here is a lot of anger and bile. No one should have to defend their point of view from a bunch of forumers who are spiteful, angry, and use the following citations -



1) There aren't enough girl gamers. Your opinion is invalid

2) You don't know what you are talking about. Your opinion is invalid

3) It isn't sound. Your point is invalid

4) Stop standing on your uterus stand. Your point is invalid



Just.... Stop. Stop there.



Unless you have something constructive to say that would create a dialogue instead of belittling people and trying to make them feel small, my best recommendation is to go find somewhere else to do it.

[Ziggeh]

What is this wrote...

But the statistics aren't accurate to games like draogn age. I ackolwdge there is a large amount of females who play games, but that dosen't mean they like games like dragon in the most part.

And it doesn't mean that they don't, either.

[upsettingshorts]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Unless you have something constructive to say that would create a dialogue instead of belittling people and trying to make them feel small, my best recommendation is to go find somewhere else to do it.

Point to a constructive post that disagrees with the premise of the thread, just so I know which posters you're referring to. 

[HolyJellyfish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Unless you have something constructive to say that would create a dialogue instead of belittling people and trying to make them feel small, my best recommendation is to go find somewhere else to do it.

Point to a constructive post that disagrees with the premise of the thread, just so I know which posters you're referring to. 

I'm not in the mood to do a witch hunt right now.

I'm just tired that when someone says 'More lady marketting pleez.'

The immediate response is 'That is stupid and unsound, go away' instead of offering something constructive such as 'Yes, its true they limited lady marketting. It would be difficult for them to change gears right now, but perhaps if they did _____ everyone would be happy'

You know. A dialogue? Where issues can be solved instead of perpetuated?

[What is this]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I would really love What is this, and others, to explain exactly what makes a gamer "hardcore" in their mind... is it the money spent on games, thoe hours played daily, weekly, monthly on a single game, or all games in general? If the player can manage to play an entire game without destroying a controller or something else out of frustration do they lose their hardocre status?

Don't you realize how you sound when you decide that these "girl gamers" can't be hardcore gamers and therefore do not count?

Personally, if there is a girl out there dropping 100 bucks a month on games and spending 8 hours a day on Rockband, she's more hardcore than her brother who plays Halo online once a week with his friends and clocks an hour a night trying to get Morrigan's approval up enough, but not too much.

I also think people who spend hours playing a game, and then talking about a game on a game forum makes them hardcore enough to be counted.

Or how about this -> stop trying to label people and then dismiss them if they don't fit that label?

Uck here we go,

In terms of Dragon age marketing a hardcore gamer is someone willing to pick this game up, Not all people who own systems are intrested in slaying some darkspawn, some people like Guitar hero, some prefer halo, Some prefer Tetris.

I never said Girls can't be Hardcore, There are plenty on these forums who i would consider very die hard fans of dragon age, But that does not apply to the entire market. I'm saying "gamers" of any sex who are only intrested  in specific genres such as Rock band or puzzle games may not be intrested in DA, it's not a game that i think anyone could pick up and play. It's very story heavy and you have to invest srs time into it to get the most out of it.

And perhaps i shouldn't have used "hardcore" Perhaps i should have said someone who likes Tactical RPGS rather than Halo.

I don't deny the girls on these forums are hardcore DA fans, But that dosen't mean every girl out there is gonna like DA.
 
How bout stop trying to label me sexist just because i disagree that Bioware is being unreasonable with there marketing and has some underlined agenda to ignore there female market?

[Ziggeh]

What is this wrote...

How bout stop trying to label me sexist just because i disagree that Bioware is being unreasonable with there marketing and has some underlined agenda to ignore there female market?

That is an entirely reasonable position. Stick with that and we're all fine.

"Girls don't buy hard games", which has been the central theme of a number of your posts, is gender stereotyping and very much sexism.

[HolyJellyfish]

What is this wrote...

Uck here we go,

In terms of Dragon age marketing a hardcore gamer is someone willing to pick this game up, Not all people who own systems are intrested in slaying some darkspawn, some people like Guitar hero, some prefer halo, Some prefer Tetris.

I never said Girls can't be Hardcore, There are plenty on these forums who i would consider very die hard fans of dragon age, But that does not apply to the entire market. I'm saying "gamers" of any sex who are only intrested  in specific genres such as Rock band or puzzle games may not be intrested in DA, it's not a game that i think anyone could pick up and play. It's very story heavy and you have to invest srs time into it to get the most out of it.

Hey. So, what would you recommend Bioware do to resolve the issue of gender exclusive marketting that is currently being treated towards Dragon Age 2?

Or would you rather not change the strategies at all?

Because if you think that the advertisement is just fine and dandy, then being on a 'Please Offer More Lady Content Please' support thread probably isn't your grilled cheese sandwich. Just saying.

[SarEnyaDor]

I never called you sexist - this is only my third post in this thread.

I find it arrogant and presumptious to dismiss the 40% number out of hand as not being valid because it may count games like Rockband and Farmville and therefore cannot speak to the market lurking.

Even if they may not be interested in a tactical rpg right now, they will never get a chance to if no one ever piques their interest through a little marketing.

Were you born knowing all the games you would ever like? Or did you see something that interested you and tried it out? What's wrong with asking for a little more reaching out?

No one's asking BioWare, EA, or anyone to scrap all their plans, and make girl-centric games, they'd just like some acknowledgement that this game allows you to play as a female, too.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 20 décembre 2010 - 05:46 .