516 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Dust]

troyk890 wrote...
One of DAO's main draws was the origin system, which made it immpossible to pick an iconic character because of having so many different possiblities. DA2 has a shepard style protagonist. Which makes it easier.

And again I must ask: why. do. you. need. it? I reiterate: "DAO already proves that you don't need an iconic character to make the
game successful." Were DAO a major flop, I would have understood the change in marketing tactics.

And the marketing attempt clearly isn't futile, or the team of marketing professionals that made the descicion wouldn't have decided on it.

It clearly is when the marketing for the first game did not fail in any way.

It doesn't alienate you, you get all the same options in-game, does the cover(which isn't final btw) really make you feel alienated?

It's not about the cover. It's about failing to represent a female option and casting confusion that you can only play as some bearded macho dude.

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

octoberfire wrote...
You did fine with DAO's blood spatter dragon shape. Why have an iconic character at all on the cover, then?

I imagine it's considered beneficial to have a "face" for the game that is identifiable, part of the branding in the same way that a logo would be. The people who come here certainly don't need any help identifying what Dragon Age is-- naturally-- but then again they don't particularly need marketing in the first place. All you guys want is information.

Just add guns, booze and women and you've pretty much sold the game to a large majority of gamers (the one that don't know or care what Dragon Age is).

[troyk890]

Crrash wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

It's SO not about the cover art.

no, but yet it is. They want to put BeardHawke on the cover. By putting him on the cover, they put it in all the other media and stuff. If not one specific Hawke is on the cover, the media can cover a lot more types of Hawke

Showing 20 different Hawkes in commercials would only confuse the average consumer, unless custimization was touted as a main feature.

[Vincentdante]

Oh look it's this thread again.

[Layn]

troyk890 wrote...

Crrash wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

It's SO not about the cover art.

no, but yet it is. They want to put BeardHawke on the cover. By putting him on the cover, they put it in all the other media and stuff. If not one specific Hawke is on the cover, the media can cover a lot more types of Hawke

Showing 20 different Hawkes in commercials would only confuse the average consumer, unless custimization was touted as a main feature.

... <_< which it is

[Brass_Buckles]

Gambient wrote...

I don't think its a big deal, really--the guys who demo these games play as males because they are males and are more comfortable. And as stated many times already, the only reason why BioWare's pushing a male protagonist forward is because the demographic, which is mostly male players. It would be unwise to appeal to the majority. I get what you're saying though about females being generally hyper sexualized--BioWare doesn't seem to do this often though.

Okay, look at it this way:
Imagine that there is this really awesome game coming out.  It's promoted with a female character.  She's not very sexy at all.  In fact she is kind of ugly.  Apart from that, though, this game is totally awesome.  It's got great graphics, innovative and exciting gameplay, a totally epic storyline--it's everything you could want in a game.  But there's no advertisement at all of a male character option--even though the devs tell you on their forum that you can be a guy.  You can't see what the guy is going to look like, and even though you know you can customize your character--for instance, make the girl prettier or make your own default badass male--you don't get any acknowledgment that there will be a male in the game, nor do you get to see any screenshots of the male.  If there are romances, you don't even get to know much about the girls that your guy can romance.  I'm sure you can say that you wouldn't feel left out, but I'm reasonably sure that you'd be lying if you did say so.  In fact, because, as many people point out, guys are so very visually-oriented, you probably wouldn't buy the game.  In the event that you aren't shallow like most people (myself included in some cases) and you did buy the game, you'd find that the male character was just as good as the female, and he might even have a better voice actor and more interesting romance options.  But you never knew that until you actually bought the game, because he wasn't advertised at all.

I don't care if the iconic character is male, although yes, I would like to see a female iconic character for Bioware one of these days (I don't think it'll happen, but I'd really, really like it).  I just want some acknowledgment that you can make a LadyHawke if you want.  If there isn't, I can deal with it and I'll probably still buy the game; I just won't be as happy as I would be if I could see/hear a little of the character I will be playing (the female version) beforehand (as much as I'm able without spoiling it for myself anyway).

I'm assuming (possibly wrongly?) that you're in the main targeted demographic--a male in the 18-35 age range.  It's easier for you to be cool with the disinclusion of the female protagonist in the promotion of the game because you are not disincluded yourself and therefore have nothing to be upset about.  The upset women of the fanbase probably look like a bunch of whiners to you because you can't really identify.  I'm not exactly outraged, but I'm hoping that maybe if enough of us ask nicely that we will not be entirely excluded from the marketing.  I know the women on the Bioware community forums aren't the only women who'd be interested in buying these games, and there's a lot to these games (storywise and dialoguewise and even romancewise) that new female players would eat up like chocolate candy--if they knew that the game included more than butt-kicking, blood, and gore, and especially if they knew they could have a female avatar!

[Jestina]

If it is a female character, she will be wearing little to nothing and have overly exaggerated parts...like the route they went in ME2(Mass Effect...now featuring borderline porn).

Modifié par Jestina, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:46 .

[Lyssistr]

problem solved, Bodhi's sister, Megan, is DA 2's hero 

Modifié par Lyssistr, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:53 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

troyk890 wrote...
Showing 20 different Hawkes in commercials would only confuse the average consumer, unless custimization was touted as a main feature.

Showing only one Hawke will only confuse people.

It already has. I've already seen a few topics here that thought Hawke was set as a dude. There were and are a lot of people who think Sheploo is the only Shepard.

That's the problem. BioWare doesn't do anything but shove their icon around. Yeah, if someone specifically asks on a forum the devs might come in and say "Oh, you can play female sure y not." but we'll never see actual proof of that until a third party gets their hands on the character creator.

[Kreid]

The fact that DA:O had good sales doesn't mean Bioware can't try to make DA2 even more successful by improving their marketing campaign, and a recognizable face does improve it in a certain numbers of ways.

[TMZuk]

While I understand the worries of the original poster, I wonder why you don't ask the more obvious question? Why do we need an iconic character at all? It's supposed to be an RPG! RPG's have character creation, not iconic characters. Bioware, you are so slapping your fans in the face!

[troyk890]

octoberfire wrote...

troyk890 wrote...
One of DAO's main draws was the origin system, which made it immpossible to pick an iconic character because of having so many different possiblities. DA2 has a shepard style protagonist. Which makes it easier.

And again I must ask: why. do. you. need. it? I reiterate: "DAO already proves that you don't need an iconic character to make the
game successful." Were DAO a major flop, I would have understood the change in marketing tactics.

I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. I meant the origin system was what drew in many costumers. DA2 doesn't have this draw, so it needs a new one. This doesn't need to be an iconic character but it needs to be something.

And it may not be neccesary ,but if it adds to sales they're going to do it regardless.

[Jestina]

RPGs in the past lived by their titles, they didn't need a face because you created the character in the game setting. Something definitely has gone off the rails somewhere.

[syllogi]

Creid-X wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
For those who seem to be dismissive of the idea of advertising featuring a female player character...how would a few trailers or screenshots harm your experience? Because it would enrich mine, generate good will with many fans, and pique the interest of others.

It's SO not about the cover art.

Ok, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but screenshots and trailers only reach internet audience like us which is generally already aware that the game can be played as both male and female, making trailers and screenshots isn't really a big deal but...it's only for your personal satisfaction, nothing more.
I understand that the female fanbase wants recognition but I personally wouldn't blame Bioware if they decide to take the ME route in marketing.

So by that logic, NO information should be shared on this site, or on sites like this one, because we are all already informed consumers who will buy the product no matter what.  Bioware should put all of it's efforts into marketing to those who are completely unaware of their products, so they don't "waste" advertising on hardcore fans.

As for my personal satisfaction...advertising is about persuading consumers to consume their products, and giving each potential buyer "personal satisfaction" is part of the process.

You may not blame Bioware if they continue to ignore a portion of their fanbase when it comes to marketing, but if one day it were to cut into profits, eventually, it would effect you, when you don't get the product you want because other consumers have left the fold.

Believe it or not, it really *is* possible to stop buying products if one is dissatisified with them.  Maybe us girls will go buy shoes or purses with the money we save. 

Modifié par TeenZombie, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:53 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Jestina wrote...

RPGs in the past lived by their titles, they didn't need a face because you created the character in the game setting. Something definitely has gone off the rails somewhere.

Because the graphics weren't good enough?

The simplest answer is the best one.

That still doesn't excuse the marketing.  If Starcraft can live by its name, Dragon Age should at least try.

[tallon1982]

And here I thought sex sells...



As for the chainmail bikini...sorry but Star Wars has you beat with Princess Leia in the metal bikini circa 1983.





And for my two cents, I think people forget about Lara Croft being a female character that is in a sense iconic and still around thanks to the revamp done. What sold her was her provocative looks and the fact she knows her way around a gun and then some. Now I'm not saying this is what female protagonists should be like or look like either. I think what we should do is take most game covers with a grain of salt because it's usually just a gimmick to sell the game whether it's good or not.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
That still doesn't excuse the marketing.  If Starcraft can live by its name, Dragon Age should at least try.

That's another reason why the dudeHawke doesn't make sense as an icon. He doesn't represent the series at all as he was completely absent from DAO and Awakening.

[Eternal Dust]

troyk890 wrote...
I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. I meant the origin system was what drew in many costumers. DA2 doesn't have this draw, so it needs a new one. This doesn't need to be an iconic character but it needs to be something.

And it may not be neccesary ,but if it adds to sales they're going to do it regardless.

So you agree that an iconic character is not entirely necessary? RPGs don't need iconic characters anyway, especially when it comes to DA which touts character customization and moral choices. I completely agree with TMZuk's post above.

[troyk890]

TeenZombie wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
For those who seem to be dismissive of the idea of advertising featuring a female player character...how would a few trailers or screenshots harm your experience? Because it would enrich mine, generate good will with many fans, and pique the interest of others.

It's SO not about the cover art.

Ok, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but screenshots and trailers only reach internet audience like us which is generally already aware that the game can be played as both male and female, making trailers and screenshots isn't really a big deal but...it's only for your personal satisfaction, nothing more.
I understand that the female fanbase wants recognition but I personally wouldn't blame Bioware if they decide to take the ME route in marketing.

So by that logic, NO information should be shared on this site, or on
sites like this one, because we are all already informed consumers who
will buy the product no matter what.  Bioware should put all of it's
efforts into marketing to those who are completely unaware of their
products, so they don't "waste" advertising on hardcore fans.

Thats not following his logic, thats following a set of logic i'm pretty sure you just made up to give yourself a footing in the arguement. New info, and info you already knew about are two different things.

If anything, reiterating that you could play a femhawke WOULD be marketing to those unaware of the game, and not to already established fans. Which is the opposite of what you said.

Modifié par troyk890, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:59 .

[Brass_Buckles]

troyk890 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

troyk890 wrote...
One of DAO's main draws was the origin system, which made it immpossible to pick an iconic character because of having so many different possiblities. DA2 has a shepard style protagonist. Which makes it easier.

And again I must ask: why. do. you. need. it? I reiterate: "DAO already proves that you don't need an iconic character to make the
game successful." Were DAO a major flop, I would have understood the change in marketing tactics.

I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. I meant the origin system was what drew in many costumers. DA2 doesn't have this draw, so it needs a new one. This doesn't need to be an iconic character but it needs to be something.

And it may not be neccesary ,but if it adds to sales they're going to do it regardless.

This is most certainly true too, but since they have already decided not to go the origins route (which makes me a very sad gamer, because I absolutely loved the origins in DAO--they gave my characters a lot more individuality), the least they can do is give the female gamers a bit of representation.  Again, I don't think we'd really demand equal face time with the male version of Hawke, but to have some marketing at all would be wonderful.

I like to think most of us female gamers are also not so shallow that we'll simply not buy the game if we aren't given representation (let's face it, it wouldn't dent the sales much anyway--and there'd be plenty of other women also buying the game who aren't in the community), but there are gamer girls out there who probably won't give this game a second glance if they think they can't be a girl.  And there are women players in the casual and moderate gaming audience who could be swayed to the dark side of hardcore if they got a little marketing thrown their way.  You want more women to play the game?  Show them they can play a girl and show them a little romance.  We're not all about fancy shoes and pretty clothes (although those are nice too, just a bit silly in a war-oriented game...).

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:59 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

troyk890 wrote...
Thats not following his logic, thats following a set of logic i'm pretty sure you just made up to give yourself a footing in the arguement. New info, and info you already knew about are two different things.

Not really. They're only different based on point of view. What I "know" is not new info, but to someone who doesn't know it yet it is new info.

So, yeah, we may "know" that there is a female option, but others don't. So, logically, the official game sites should advertise that fact, instead of ignoring it altogether.

[troyk890]

Crrash wrote...

troyk890 wrote...

Crrash wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

It's SO not about the cover art.

no, but yet it is. They want to put BeardHawke on the cover. By putting him on the cover, they put it in all the other media and stuff. If not one specific Hawke is on the cover, the media can cover a lot more types of Hawke

Showing 20 different Hawkes in commercials would only confuse the average consumer, unless custimization was touted as a main feature.

... <_< which it is

Really? It's not even mentioned on the main site.

[syllogi]

troyk890 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Ok, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but screenshots and trailers only reach internet audience like us which is generally already aware that the game can be played as both male and female, making trailers and screenshots isn't really a big deal but...it's only for your personal satisfaction, nothing more.
I understand that the female fanbase wants recognition but I personally wouldn't blame Bioware if they decide to take the ME route in marketing.

So by that logic, NO information should be shared on this site

Thats not following his logic, thats following a set of logic i'm pretty sure you just made up to give yourself a footing in the arguement. New info, and info you already knew about are two different things.

Check out the portion I underlined.  What is he trying to say if he's not saying that female gamers don't *need* screenshots or trailers because we are already aware that we can play as a female character.  I am following his logic.  If female gamers don't need any information about potential game features, no Bioware fan needs this information. 

Just knowing that I can play as a female character isn't satisfying.  And you and the above poster have not explained how fans of female characters getting NEW information would harm your experience while waiting for the game.  Go on, please explain.

[thisisdell]

Don't see the point. As long as there is an option in game. I mean I could care less if it is a dude or a chick. Just make the game freaking sweet.



I would play a Bioware cheer leading action RPG. They are one of the stuidos that can make anything and ill play it.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

Brass_Buckles I like you



Great job of getting the point across in a non abrasive way....pretty much the same point Mystranna was making earlier but with a calm attitude(no offense Myst). I'm all for the use of an iconic female in marketing and I hope you gals make some progress here. I, personally, don't care what gender is promoted or played in a game as long as the game is quality.....so you got my vote.