516 réponses à ce sujet

[troyk890]

octoberfire wrote...

troyk890 wrote...
I don't think you got the point I was trying to make. I meant the origin system was what drew in many costumers. DA2 doesn't have this draw, so it needs a new one. This doesn't need to be an iconic character but it needs to be something.

And it may not be neccesary ,but if it adds to sales they're going to do it regardless.

So you agree that an iconic character is not entirely necessary? RPGs don't need iconic characters anyway, especially when it comes to DA which touts character customization and moral choices. I completely agree with TMZuk's post above.

Not necessarily, no. But they will still use an iconic character, because EA wants the next "master chief affect". I'm really not completely disagreeing that femshephawke should be represented as much as I'm explaining why she probably won't be.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

DespiertaLosNinos wrote...
pretty much the same point Mystranna was making earlier but with a calm attitude(no offense Myst).

Ha, none taken. :happy:

[Aigyl]

As an 18 year old male I'd have no problem with a female Hawke being marketed.

The thing is it seems only female fans are concerned about seeing a female icon on the cover art, and what's the point of changing your marketing just to appease a portion of the fanbase when most of them will buy the game anyway?

Edit: I just realised how provocative my post sounds.

*dives into flame-resistent suit *

Modifié par Aigyl, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[Kreid]

TeenZombie wrote...
So by that logic, NO information should be shared on this site, or on sites like this one, because we are all already informed consumers who will buy the product no matter what.  Bioware should put all of it's efforts into marketing to those who are completely unaware of their products, so they don't "waste" advertising on hardcore fans.

I never said you shouldn't be informed in sites like this, in fact these are  the best sites to get advertised about videogames these days, all I'm saying is that in almost every instance you'll see beardhawke it'll be for people that are not informed at all , and those people are in it's majority males from 15 to 35 years old which feel identified with a male protagonist so obviously marketing is going to try appeal to them.
What would you do? put a femHawke in the cover so they wouldn't feel identified? share the cover so they would get confused? you only have to read the back of the cover to inform yourself that the character is customizable, and people who surf the net already know this so what else do you want? it's not anybody's fault that the target market are men, you can't just change it.

As for my personal satisfaction...advertising is about persuading consumers to consume their products, and giving each potential buyer "personal satisfaction" is part of the process.

You may not blame Bioware if they continue to ignore a portion of their fanbase when it comes to marketing, but if one day it were to cut into profits, eventually, it would effect you, when you don't get the product you want because other consumers have left the fold.

Believe it or not, it really *is* possible to stop buying products if one is dissatisified with them.  Maybe us girls will go buy shoes or purses with the money we save. 

Only you can decide what to with your money, if you feel Bioware is ignoring you although female characters are treated equally or even better than male ones in-game, you're entitled to.

[Vincentdante]

out of everything that came from the outburst today this is the lamest. Talk about judging a book by it's cover and don't give me that "it appeals to the minority" crap cause it doesn't, you guys just made it a big thing. You might as well go over to Activision and complain to them not putting female soldier on COD's front cover. The principle is the same, go on do it. If this is a big major thing that can ruin every female gamers enjoyment then you would be hypocritical NOT to.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Vincentdante wrote...

out of everything that came from the outburst today this is the lamest. Talk about judging a book by it's cover and don't give me that "it appeals to the minority" crap cause it doesn't, you guys just made it a big thing. You might as well go over to Activision and complain to them not putting female soldier on COD's front cover. The principle is the same, go on do it. If this is a big major thing that can ruin every female gamers enjoyment then you would be hypocritical NOT to.

Maybe you should stop, sit, read, and try harder to comprehend.

This issue is not about the cover.

[DespiertaLosNinos]

Yeah Mystranna has been going in circles all day with this issue, she is arguing for inclusion in marketing promotion NOT coverart

[yiasmin]

As a woman I didn't mind the bearded guy cover, but the marketing blurb about fighting as a Spartan made my Greek blood boil. Bioware, offending everyone equally.

[SarEnyaDor]

Has anyone made a "Not my Hawke" logo yet? LOL

[Vincentdante]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Vincentdante wrote...

out of everything that came from the outburst today this is the lamest. Talk about judging a book by it's cover and don't give me that "it appeals to the minority" crap cause it doesn't, you guys just made it a big thing. You might as well go over to Activision and complain to them not putting female soldier on COD's front cover. The principle is the same, go on do it. If this is a big major thing that can ruin every female gamers enjoyment then you would be hypocritical NOT to.

Maybe you should stop, sit, read, and try harder to comprehend.

This issue is not about the cover.

Sat, read, comprehended, it is. Learn to origins story Thats were it began. That and the promotional material.

Anyways I'm keeping out of this from now on, this is asking for trouble.

Modifié par Vincentdante, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[troyk890]

TeenZombie wrote...

troyk890 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Ok, I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but screenshots and trailers only reach internet audience like us which is generally already aware that the game can be played as both male and female, making trailers and screenshots isn't really a big deal but...it's only for your personal satisfaction, nothing more.
I understand that the female fanbase wants recognition but I personally wouldn't blame Bioware if they decide to take the ME route in marketing.

So by that logic, NO information should be shared on this site

Thats not following his logic, thats following a set of logic i'm pretty sure you just made up to give yourself a footing in the arguement. New info, and info you already knew about are two different things.

Check out the portion I underlined.  What is he trying to say if he's not saying that female gamers don't *need* screenshots or trailers because we are already aware that we can play as a female character.  I am following his logic.  If female gamers don't need any information about potential game features, no Bioware fan needs this information. 

Just knowing that I can play as a female character isn't satisfying.  And you and the above poster have not explained how fans of female characters getting NEW information would harm your experience while waiting for the game.  Go on, please explain.

Female gamers getting new info wouldn't harm my experience. I've actually already said that.

I consider the fact that you can play a female common knowledge on this site.(maybe thats where we disagree)

He said that there is no point in reiterating this only to people on this sight, since they already know.

Then, you said that by that logic, no new info should be released. Which would mean that info about features nobody knows about wouldn't be shown.

Thats not the same logic.

[syllogi]

Creid-X wrote...

I never said you shouldn't be informed in sites like this, in fact these are  the best sites to get advertised about videogames these days, all I'm saying is that in almost every instance you'll see beardhawke it'll be for people that are not informed at all , and those people are in it's majority males from 15 to 35 years old which feel identified with a male protagonist so obviously marketing is going to try appeal to them.
What would you do? put a femHawke in the cover so they wouldn't feel identified? share the cover so they would get confused? you only have to read the back of the cover to inform yourself that the character is customizable, and people who surf the net already know this so what else do you want? it's not anybody's fault that the target market are men, you can't just change it.

Only you can decide what to with your money, if you feel Bioware is ignoring you although female characters are treated equally or even better than male ones in-game, you're entitled to.

LOL.

Since you were unable to even read the post you quoted of mine, I'm not going to bother with you anymore, but I will say that it's kind of sad that people who claim it doesn't matter are spending so much time trying to dismiss any requests of this kind.  Maybe you guys should stop posting for a bit and actually think about *why* it bothers you.

Modifié par TeenZombie, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:19 .

[Jestina]

[DaeJi]

I remember Jade Empire having one of the female PC characters front and center on the cover art. No reason it can't happen again.

[Eternal Dust]

troyk890 wrote...

Not necessarily, no. But they will still use an iconic character, because EA wants the next "master chief affect". I'm really not completely disagreeing that femshephawke should be represented as much as I'm explaining why she probably won't be.

The difference is that DA is not a shooter, so the idea of an iconic character is ridiculous to begin with. I won't be so quick to lay the blame on EA. They've promoted female characters before, like Mirror's Edge. This is probably Bioware's new philosophy from now on.

[Brass_Buckles]

Vincentdante wrote...

out of everything that came from the outburst today this is the lamest. Talk about judging a book by it's cover and don't give me that "it appeals to the minority" crap cause it doesn't, you guys just made it a big thing. You might as well go over to Activision and complain to them not putting female soldier on COD's front cover. The principle is the same, go on do it. If this is a big major thing that can ruin every female gamers enjoyment then you would be hypocritical NOT to.

The issue at hand is not really about cover art, although yeah it would be great to have LadyHawke on the cover along with the male version (even if she's only in the background).  It's about female gamers getting to see a little of the character that they will most likely be playing--and maybe getting a little marketing thrown to the new gamers who will be playing the female (because not just girls will play girls, you know).

It already is a "big issue" when Bioware has a respectable number of women in the community--we don't have to make it one.  I doubt COD has quite the same male-to-female ratio of players that Bioware has, though I might be surprised.  Again, take my scenario where there's an awesome game coming out with an ugly female protagonist.  If you happened to buy the game, the male protagonist might actually be a better experience in-game, but you still would not know anything about that character until you played the game (if you weren't so shallow that you just didn't buy it).

I'm not even arguing equality of marketing, just some representation, some acknowledgment that not all of the fans are male and, you know, those of us who are going to play the female character would probably like to know what she'll look and sound like before we buy the game.  We know it's probably going to be great, and we know that we most likely won't have a horrible in-game experience, but that isn't the point.  I've already said that I'll buy the game regardless, but I think a lot more female gamers could be brought in through advertising, and I'd also like to know a bit about that character that I'm going to be playing the most (you know, the curvy one who doesn't have a beard?)--like how her voice acting's going to be and who's going to be performing her voice, for instance--before the release date.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Back in MY day there were only male player characters!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Admittedly, reading the initial promotional material for DA2 made me think you could only play a male character. I had to check out the forum to see this wasn't so...

I don't think the DA2 site specifies any gender, but the imagery is male-heavy and it wouldn't be the first time a sequel has settled for pre-determining a male character for players.

Guild Wars did the best job marketing to male and female audiences, IMO. Male and female characters in the trailers, on the box art and everything, and I don't think the females were displayed as 'too sexy' either.

[elfdwarf]

bioware

so hawke will be hated by every elf in game

Modifié par elfdwarf, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:46 .

[Drizzt ORierdan]

I get the point of the request, but find it rather silly, really, who the freak here cares at all about "how a game is marketed"? Im totally interested in what the actual game experience would or should be, not in the cover of a box. That should worry Bioware and EA, who are intersted in making the most amount of money possible out of it, but is not my concern.

I repeat; gamers should focus on what is really important, THE GAME. Which I find is the real deal and why a franchise can stand out or not, not because of the covers...

Having said that and being a male gamer that actually loves to play female characters in RPGs and do so as much as two out of three playthroughs..., I d really want to see a game in which theres a difference in the game experience (different choices, values and ideas, different ways to solve a problem) according you play a woman or a man: that would be AWESOME.

[DaeJi]

ReconTeam wrote...

Back in MY day there were only male player characters!

Back in my day we had Samus. My days kick your days butt.

[troyk890]

octoberfire wrote...

troyk890 wrote...

Not necessarily, no. But they will still use an iconic character, because EA wants the next "master chief affect". I'm really not completely disagreeing that femshephawke should be represented as much as I'm explaining why she probably won't be.

The difference is that DA is not a shooter, so the idea of an iconic character is ridiculous to begin with. I won't be so quick to lay the blame on EA. They've promoted female characters before, like Mirror's Edge. This is probably Bioware's new philosophy from now on.

I don't think the fact that its not a shooter makes the idea of an iconic character implausible. I think the problem is they're trying to make a normal looking guy an icon.

Look at all the icons in video games so far Master cheif has a shiny green suit, Kratos has his crazy red full body tatoo thing, Link has his green tunic ...Shepard is just some random normal looking dude.

Also, the game was announced today, there could very well be a femhawke trailer in the next few months.

Modifié par troyk890, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:40 .

[zahra]

Vincentdante wrote...

out of everything that came from the outburst today this is the lamest. Talk about judging a book by it's cover and don't give me that "it appeals to the minority" crap cause it doesn't, you guys just made it a big thing. You might as well go over to Activision and complain to them not putting female soldier on COD's front cover. The principle is the same, go on do it. If this is a big major thing that can ruin every female gamers enjoyment then you would be hypocritical NOT to.

Calm down.


It wasn't an outburst. It was a well-worded eloquently written request. It was not confrontational in the slightest. Your post however, is. 

[Kreid]

TeenZombie wrote...

LOL.

Since you were unable to even read the post you quoted of mine, I'm not going to bother with you anymore, but I will say that it's kind of sad that people who claim it doesn't matter are spending so much time trying to dismiss any requests of this kind.  Maybe you guys should stop posting for a bit and actually think about *why* it bothers you.

Pardon me? you're obviously being so very defensive here.
I'm not saying you guys are "fighting the good fight" to have a female character in the cover.
I'm simply asking: what do you really want? a very big Oh! you CAN play as a female too! in big golden characters in the cover or what? because that's the only kind of advertising that would reach the females that don't surf the net, trailers and screenshots would be targeted to people that actually surf the net and already know the game features and, as I said before would only serve the purpose of fulfilling  the female fanbase's satisfaction.

Now, i'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm very well aware that it's pretty unfair that male customers get cool trailers and screenshots of a manly Hawke and females don't get a female "representative" but the main market target are males and they need to appeal to them , it's the most basic element of the marketing  business, now they are free to use it's resources as they want, so if they decide they want to pull a FemHawke marketing campaing as well I'm not complaining, in fact i'm all for it, the more the better and I'm sure FemHawke would be interesting to see but I can see how they would want to go the ME route.

Modifié par Creid-X, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .

[Euteras]

Maybe they could give the option in exchange for a pre order. Keeps the girl heroes happy and fulfills the corporate greed ( need for sales ) thing at the same time. With enough pre orders the cost would be justified or at least covered. Actually the good will generated may cover the cost all by itself.

Modifié par Euteras, 09 juillet 2010 - 02:49 .