516 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Dust]

joriandrake wrote...

but to be fair I know not everyone would like that, so Bioware, why not do as many others before you, and release a game with atleast 2 different covers?

Or...ya know just stick with what they've been doing all along and just put a dragon on the cover. I think that pretty much gets the point across. DRAGON AGE. Yeah, not Hawke Age.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Felinu wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

I had no idea you could play a femshep in ME1, so I didn't get it til the end of 2008.  I didn't follow the forums and didn't read much on it because sci fi games aren't really my thing.  Everything I saw about ME1 was innundated with Sheploo and I won't buy a game where I can't play a female character on principal. 

My point is this marketing strategy can backfire.  I doubt they were hurting over my money, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that did this.

As an aside, didn't Jade Empire have a couple of the main characters on the cover, including Wu the Lotus Blossom and Furious Ming? I can't remember, but I seem to recall Wu being pretty prominent. 


edit: blah blah clarifying blah blah

edit #2: I see someone mentioned Jade Empire already.  Sorry.

Right there with you.  I didn't pick up ME1 until after I'd played through DAO 5 or 6 times, and the male asked "wouldn't you like to try ME?"  I told him that my MMO experience has spoiled me, and I can't stand *having* to play a guy anymore.  "Uh, there's a female Shepard..."  Heh, barely managed to finish my first playthrough before ME2 came out.

The point of letting people outside the forums know that you play either gender is to *add* players.  I'd have picked up ME alot sooner if there had been a blurb on the back of the box that said somthing like "you can customize your character, including gender."  Maybe a screenshot?  Is this really so much to ask?

I didn't know you could play a female Shephard until after ME2 came out. XD Sci-fi games aren't my cup of tea to begin with, but because ME was a Bioware game and I tend to *love* their games I was considering trying it out until it looked like, from promotional images released, you would have to play a male. 

[joriandrake]

I agree with Yenaquai

[TuringPoint]

Umm... why not just use a logo then? Or a symbol? The main character doesn't have to be a symbol.

I don't think that just because this is what the marketing people at Bioware say is best, that it is best.  There is always some other way.  Many things seem very difficult or impossible before they are done.

But many games avoid plastering their main character's face all over everything.  Or at least the player character's.  Successful games, too.  Frequently, with first person shooters, the protagonist is in some sort of suit so you can't even see their face, or perhaps even gender.  Revan, one of the most iconic characters made by Bioware, has no face, but still manages to be an incredible symbol - is there any doubt why a similar look featured in the first trailer for Sw:tor?  Revan's suit allowed for a certain amount of indeterminate gender.

Perhaps there's some more specific reason to give a coherent face, something about high-def era, RPG, blablahblahblahrgasaurus.  I find that I don't particularly care to identify myself with any of the pretty-faced male icons Bioware picks.  I don't find it appealing and I largely have to ignore it, and I suspect I'm not the only one.

Hmm.  I guess it makes it easier to make TV ads.

Modifié par Alocormin, 09 juillet 2010 - 05:46 .

[joriandrake]

octoberfire wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

but to be fair I know not everyone would like that, so Bioware, why not do as many others before you, and release a game with atleast 2 different covers?

Or...ya know just stick with what they've been doing all along and just put a dragon on the cover. I think that pretty much gets the point across. DRAGON AGE. Yeah, not Hawke Age.

true, this is not an adventure game with a premade main character what you WANT to see on a cover, this I already hated in ME boxes

[Chuvvy]

brain_damage wrote...
Bioware are going to change it completely.

Modifié par Slidell505, 09 juillet 2010 - 05:42 .

[joriandrake]

Slidell505 wrote...

brain_damage wrote...
Bioware are going to change it completely.

the irony in this image is, that as much i can tell atm, this face will be pretty much like how Hawke will look like

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The thread is more geared towards having a poster boy/girl for a game, not necessarily the box art.



Heroes get more of the limelight than heroines in Bioware games (or that's what I'm assuming from some of the arguments posted).

[Merci357]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Felinu wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

I had no idea you could play a femshep in ME1, so I didn't get it til the end of 2008.  I didn't follow the forums and didn't read much on it because sci fi games aren't really my thing.  Everything I saw about ME1 was innundated with Sheploo and I won't buy a game where I can't play a female character on principal. 

My point is this marketing strategy can backfire.  I doubt they were hurting over my money, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that did this.

As an aside, didn't Jade Empire have a couple of the main characters on the cover, including Wu the Lotus Blossom and Furious Ming? I can't remember, but I seem to recall Wu being pretty prominent. 


edit: blah blah clarifying blah blah

edit #2: I see someone mentioned Jade Empire already.  Sorry.

Right there with you.  I didn't pick up ME1 until after I'd played through DAO 5 or 6 times, and the male asked "wouldn't you like to try ME?"  I told him that my MMO experience has spoiled me, and I can't stand *having* to play a guy anymore.  "Uh, there's a female Shepard..."  Heh, barely managed to finish my first playthrough before ME2 came out.

The point of letting people outside the forums know that you play either gender is to *add* players.  I'd have picked up ME alot sooner if there had been a blurb on the back of the box that said somthing like "you can customize your character, including gender."  Maybe a screenshot?  Is this really so much to ask?

I didn't know you could play a female Shephard until after ME2 came out. XD Sci-fi games aren't my cup of tea to begin with, but because ME was a Bioware game and I tend to *love* their games I was considering trying it out until it looked like, from promotional images released, you would have to play a male. 

This. I got ME very late in 2009, a few weeks before DA was released. And just because I was anticipating DA (since it was advertised as the heir of BG, and I loved the BG series) - and visited these forums, I got curious about ME as well. All I knew before of ME was due to the marketing campaign, and, honestly, the generic male space marine hero sounded so boring, and as such I never picked it up earlier. Since I learned I could play a female Shepard as well, I got it - and really liked it. And as such got ME2 as well.

So, in short, I'm sure the sole marketing of a male poster hero will hurt the sales.

Modifié par Merci357, 09 juillet 2010 - 06:01 .

[Aetheria]

It seems that the real reason most are giving for wanting to see a female character in advertising/promo images is that they want to feel included. But why? If you already know enough about the game to know the main character can be female and to complain about not seeing her in ads, you don't need advertising to tell you about the game in the first place. Ads aren't made for people who already know about and want the game; they're there to entice as large a number of people as possible to casually pick up the game in a store and think about buying it.

Therefore, I don't see how showing a female Hawke on the box cover would be some sort of victory for female gamers. Having other, crappier games marketed to me because I'm female, with ads full of flowers and unicorns and other such ridiculousness, is pretty exasperating, so I'm not sure that being the target of an ad campaign is anything to celebrate. Being "recognized" as part of a target group whom companies want to part from their money isn't terribly fulfilling for me, personally.

Also, I suspect that having a character on the cover of the game is about drawing the eye. We do naturally find human faces interesting. Heck, even the DA:O cover people are holding up as an example of an ad without an iconic character has Morrigan off to one side looking all mysterious and showing a bit of cleavage. In fact, I seem to remember there were complaints about the marketing for the game featuring Morrigan more than any other character - because it was "relying on sex appeal". No matter what, you can't please everyone.

What I would like, however, is more information for the fans who play female characters. While I don't care about the ad campaign, I do want screenshots of character creation and gameplay with a female PC. Only giving out videos and screens of a male PC doesn't seem fair. Making it clear on the game's website and such that you can choose your PC's gender wouldn't hurt, either.

Modifié par Aetheria, 09 juillet 2010 - 06:37 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Aetheria wrote...

What I would like, however, is more information for the fans who play female characters. While I don't care about the ad campaign, I do want screenshots of character creation and gameplay with a female PC. Only giving out videos and screens of a male PC doesn't seem fair. Making it clear on the game's website and such that you can choose your PC's gender wouldn't hurt, either.

This.

[joriandrake]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Aetheria wrote...

What I would like, however, is more information for the fans who play female characters. While I don't care about the ad campaign, I do want screenshots of character creation and gameplay with a female PC. Only giving out videos and screens of a male PC doesn't seem fair. Making it clear on the game's website and such that you can choose your PC's gender wouldn't hurt, either.

This.

While I support the more "gender-equal advertising", i have to ask if girls seriously never play as male characters? Ever? Even the girls who play(ed) pnp?
If so then it is weird because I think male players can very well roleplay females for a campaign and get into role, not just playing to see a girl's ass on monitor the whole time, and I also think girls should be able to roleplay a male character. It isn't like all girls or boys act the same anyway, they can also all be rude or kind, shy or aggressive, intricate or blunt.

[Aetheria]

joriandrake wrote...

While I support the more "gender-equal advertising", i have to ask if girls seriously never play as male characters? Ever? Even the girls who play(ed) pnp?
If so then it is weird because I think male players can very well roleplay females for a campaign and get into role, not just playing to see a girl's ass on monitor the whole time, and I also think girls should be able to roleplay a male character. It isn't like all girls or boys act the same anyway, they can also all be rude or kind, shy or aggressive, intricate or blunt.

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game through with "iconic Hawke". Because even though I'll go through with a female PC first, she probably won't have that majestic beard. 

[Koffeegirl]

While I also would like videos and screens of a female PC, those I guess are part of the marketing techniques on the website? While I think a lot of females play RPGS, the general view is that they don't. When I went to buy DAO for my pc, the clerk was incredulous that I was buying it for myself."This is for you, really? Really?/" While I find it insulting that a lot of people think girly girls just like to play Wii Fit and DS puzzle games and can't possibly be "real gamers", the fact is true that we are not the marketing target. However, I am just happy that Bioware has consistently remembered us and provided us with female PCs, in all of their RPGs. Please always remember us Bioware in all of your future endeavors, we do exist! Also if you would like to maybe give one or two screen shots of our female Hawke we would be even more happy.

[swirlwind]

joriandrake wrote...

While I support the more "gender-equal advertising", i have to ask if girls seriously never play as male characters? Ever? Even the girls who play(ed) pnp?
If so then it is weird because I think male players can very well roleplay females for a campaign and get into role, not just playing to see a girl's ass on monitor the whole time, and I also think girls should be able to roleplay a male character. It isn't like all girls or boys act the same anyway, they can also all be rude or kind, shy or aggressive, intricate or blunt.

Of course women play as male protagonists too. To be able to play most games, you have to, because most games still don't offer any other choice. My personal preference is to play female characters, but even in games that offer the choice, I usually play male at least once to see how the story differs, or what the romances are on the other side of the fence. It's not only about not being able to relate to a male character (although that is certainly a part of the issue), it's also about showcasing the options the game offers. 

For me, this has never been about the cover art or that instead of maleHawke we should only see a femaleHawke. I have nothing against maleHawke. I would merely like to see the options represented in the marketing, if only to the extent of being able to see female character creation options shown by BioWare instead of other, unaffiliated gaming sites. While I, a long-time BioWare fan and an active community member, know that the option to play female exists in the upcoming game, there are other gamers out there who don't know it, and never will know it unless it's made (even a tiny) part of the marketing.

Modifié par swirlwind, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:01 .

[SATG87]

Cover art is serious business

[joriandrake]

Aetheria wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

While I support the more "gender-equal advertising", i have to ask if girls seriously never play as male characters? Ever? Even the girls who play(ed) pnp?
If so then it is weird because I think male players can very well roleplay females for a campaign and get into role, not just playing to see a girl's ass on monitor the whole time, and I also think girls should be able to roleplay a male character. It isn't like all girls or boys act the same anyway, they can also all be rude or kind, shy or aggressive, intricate or blunt.

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game through with "iconic Hawke". Because even though I'll go through with a female PC first, she probably won't have that majestic beard. 

if she will, then i demand a screenshot from you

[SnakeHelah]

You guys heard what Gaider said.

"And as always we make plenty of options to accomodate female players in the game."

Expect an Alistair in another body.

[Eternal Dust]

Aetheria wrote...

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game through with "iconic Hawke". Because even though I'll go through with a female PC first, she probably won't have that majestic beard. 

Who says she can't?

[Aetheria]

octoberfire wrote...

Aetheria wrote...

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game through with "iconic Hawke". Because even though I'll go through with a female PC first, she probably won't have that majestic beard. 

Who says she can't?

Perhaps some intrepid modder will give us true gender equality: beards for all!

[joriandrake]

Aetheria wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

Aetheria wrote...

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game through with "iconic Hawke". Because even though I'll go through with a female PC first, she probably won't have that majestic beard. 

Who says she can't?

Perhaps some intrepid modder will give us true gender equality: beards for all!

then it is also boobs for all?

I can already imagine the frightening "Conan" with huge beard and boobs.... scary

Modifié par joriandrake, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:28 .

[Aetheria]

joriandrake wrote...

then it is also boobs for all?

I can already imagine the frightening "Conan" with huge beard and boobs.... scary

It's true, nobody's yet mentioned whether or not hermaphrodites will feel left out if they're not represented in the marketing. What an oversight!

[Gambient]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

Okay, look at it this way:
Imagine that there is this really awesome game coming out.  It's promoted with a female character.  She's not very sexy at all.  In fact she is kind of ugly.  Apart from that, though, this game is totally awesome.  It's got great graphics, innovative and exciting gameplay, a totally epic storyline--it's everything you could want in a game.  But there's no advertisement at all of a male character option--even though the devs tell you on their forum that you can be a guy.  You can't see what the guy is going to look like, and even though you know you can customize your character--for instance, make the girl prettier or make your own default badass male--you don't get any acknowledgment that there will be a male in the game, nor do you get to see any screenshots of the male.  If there are romances, you don't even get to know much about the girls that your guy can romance.  I'm sure you can say that you wouldn't feel left out, but I'm reasonably sure that you'd be lying if you did say so.  In fact, because, as many people point out, guys are so very visually-oriented, you probably wouldn't buy the game.  In the event that you aren't shallow like most people (myself included in some cases) and you did buy the game, you'd find that the male character was just as good as the female, and he might even have a better voice actor and more interesting romance options.  But you never knew that until you actually bought the game, because he wasn't advertised at all.

I don't care if the iconic character is male, although yes, I would like to see a female iconic character for Bioware one of these days (I don't think it'll happen, but I'd really, really like it).  I just want some acknowledgment that you can make a LadyHawke if you want.  If there isn't, I can deal with it and I'll probably still buy the game; I just won't be as happy as I would be if I could see/hear a little of the character I will be playing (the female version) beforehand (as much as I'm able without spoiling it for myself anyway).

I'm assuming (possibly wrongly?) that you're in the main targeted demographic--a male in the 18-35 age range.  It's easier for you to be cool with the disinclusion of the female protagonist in the promotion of the game because you are not disincluded yourself and therefore have nothing to be upset about.  The upset women of the fanbase probably look like a bunch of whiners to you because you can't really identify.  I'm not exactly outraged, but I'm hoping that maybe if enough of us ask nicely that we will not be entirely excluded from the marketing.  I know the women on the Bioware community forums aren't the only women who'd be interested in buying these games, and there's a lot to these games (storywise and dialoguewise and even romancewise) that new female players would eat up like chocolate candy--if they knew that the game included more than butt-kicking, blood, and gore, and especially if they knew they could have a female avatar!

Hmmm... Looking back at my post, I definitely did come across as one sided and apathetic, so sorry about that.

But yeah, I just thought about how'd I'd feel if the roles were reversed and I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately males seem to need some sort of visual stimulation--a cover design or a bunch of trailers that depict a bad ass male character can easily sway our decision to warrant the game's purchase rather than a female, whether she is physically attractive or not. I don't think that will ever change, and I don't think any video game company will ever be bold enough to market a game with just a female protagonist more than they are doing now (which is pretty uncommon).

What I do think they should be doing is show both genders, in trailers and in gameplay footage. Also, BioWare could easily put a female on the front cover--they did it with Jade Empire and Knights of the Old Republic:







Chris Priestly has also said that the Dragon Age 2 cover is subject to change, so there is a possibility that a femHawke will show up. Also I suggest the other guys that are handling this discussion in an immature fashion to try to be empathetic.