516 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrathra]

alexmasterson123 wrote...

Not at all!
Ahh okay, you're the one being sexist. Got it

(I kid, I kid)

Well, in the little we've seen of DA2 marketing so far, there's nothing that's wildly different to their previous games - all the other titles, which have contributed to your knowledge that BW puts effort into properly representing the better sex, have had similar marketing campaigns to this, so I don't think there's any need to suddenly worry that Bioware will start shunning female players. It's all about looking past the marketing (which the developers have no say in) and trusting the devs to not suddenly (and bizarrely) make a U-turn and start taking steps backwards undoing all the hard work they've put in over the years. I think it's very unlikely

LOL gah! I probably do sound that way!! Sorry.

I do see your point, and because I know Bioware's track record, that isn't really one of my concerns for DA2 (I have others, but I digress).

ME's marketing campaign didn't make it obvious that there would be any real choice at all in character creation, since Sheploo was so prominent.  To Bioware's core fans, that won't make a difference, but if they are trying to pull in new customers, it may.

[Layn]

TazSmith wrote...

My girlfriend nor bestfriend (girl) don’t of mind nor even complain why there’s no female character in DA. So I think no need for it and if Bioware answer your call much better but if not we still don’t mind.

ah...mh... huh? i'm not sure what you are saying. there were female characters in DA.

TazSmith wrote...
FYI, many girls in iRL much prefer to have a male toon than female and some of guy (iRL)  prefer to used female char in other MMO dunno what their primary reason but they just do.

so you know better what kind of characters women prefer than... the women on this forum? A lot of women here have been saying they prefer playing with female characters

[Aprudena Gist]

David Gaider wrote...

octoberfire wrote...
You did fine with DAO's blood spatter dragon shape. Why have an iconic character at all on the cover, then?

I imagine it's considered beneficial to have a "face" for the game that is identifiable, part of the branding in the same way that a logo would be. The people who come here certainly don't need any help identifying what Dragon Age is-- naturally-- but then again they don't particularly need marketing in the first place. All you guys want is information.

Girls on the cover of anything always sells to Males (the majority of the gamer population) much, much, much, much better.

Its the same reason why people like Female Shepard better.  Your male voice actors just aren't as good as the female ones.

[tigrina]

Lord_Saulot wrote...
After seeing the number of players, both yesterday and today, who have presumptively assumed that no female option would be available, it seems clear that if the general public will not understand that the option is there unless they are told.

This. just think it is bad marketing to skip half of your potential buyers by
not showing options they should be proud of instead of hiding. Which doesn't mean it has the be The Point of marketing, but it really really should be obvious that you can play both genders. Don't make the same mistake as with ME, pretty please.

[Anathemic]

Aprudena Gist wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

octoberfire wrote...
You did fine with DAO's blood spatter dragon shape. Why have an iconic character at all on the cover, then?

I imagine it's considered beneficial to have a "face" for the game that is identifiable, part of the branding in the same way that a logo would be. The people who come here certainly don't need any help identifying what Dragon Age is-- naturally-- but then again they don't particularly need marketing in the first place. All you guys want is information.

Girls on the cover of anything always sells to Males (the majority of the gamer population) much, much, much, much better.

Its the same reason why people like Female Shepard better.  Your male voice actors just aren't as good as the female ones.

I'm a guy gamer and I enjoy/prefer playing female chracters, so I wouldn't mind if the female fanbase had some recognition in games, I actually support it.
And the bolded state.ment above is one of the reasons I hated the VO in Mass Effect, female Shepard ALWAYS sounded better than male Shepard (no VO for Dragon Age 2 yay).

But anyways my opinion is that scrap the whole 'iconic character' idea completely, this idea has been mentioned a couple of times, but still i would like to enforce it. Past games like Witcher and Starcraft can get sales by just living up to it's name. I see no reason why Dragon Age can't.
Personally with just a blood dragon on the cover art is better to me, not only because it looks cooler but because it doesn't give you a fixed mindset that says "Oh you have to be THAT chracter" which is why this whole debate started in the first place.

Meh my 2 cents

[Briallen]

David Gaider wrote...

I also suspect that if we did put forward a female iconic character (a la Aribeth) the response could easily be that we made her too sexy.

I have an idea that may knock you over with its deceptively simple brilliance. Ready? Here goes:

DON'T MAKE HER TOO SEXY.

Yes, I know, "sex sells" and all, but it actually is possible to design female characters who are attractive in a tasteful, non-objectified way. Take the first Mass Effect, for example. Both the female love interests in that game, as well as the female PC, were attractive women dressed in--*gasp!*--actual armor that didn't bend over backwards to show off their boobs and butts. And that game still sold like hotcakes. You're not actually required to dress your women in nothing but spandex or a strategically placed leather strap or flowing piece of fabric covering their nipples (none of which are even remotely realistic in combat situations anyway) in order to get men to buy your games.

[n2nw]

Briallen wrote...DON'T MAKE HER TOO SEXY.

Define "too".  I think that would be the problem....potaytoe / potahtoe, ya know?

Though I have to say...I *like* sexy PCs.  Although I don't want to fight in a thong, I like sexy armor, too.  And I hate it when the NPCs have cuter armor than I do.  If someone's going to kick butt and look hawt doing it, I want it to be me, not trusty side-kick #1.

Just keeping it real.

[kaispan]

Well if we're going THERE would this be a good place to pout about all the character models having way bigger boobs than me? Q_Q

[Deviija]

The confusion over the protagonist, Hawk, and the gender of Hawk is already showing. Already I have been posting (elsewhere) about this very subject and trying to correct a lot of people for believing that Hawk is a set male protagonist hero of the game. This gives me flashbacks to Mass Effect -- and even I didn't know until 6-8 months after the game came out that I could be a female PC.



The iconic male image might sell well to a demographic majority (the whole males buy more games with men on the cover to relate to argument), but it certainly isn't making it any easier in accessibility to females (or guys that prefer to play as females). That is pretty exclusionary in marketing schemes, IMO. My only hope is that with DA2's marketing, we will definitely get enough opportunities and media out there of female Hawk being awesome and not sexualized or victimized so that it will attract more audience members.

[n2nw]

kaispan wrote...

Well if we're going THERE would this be a good place to pout about all the character models having way bigger boobs than me? Q_Q

LOL!

[WilliamShatner]

David Gaider wrote...

There's already a thread on this very subject, but I'll respond to it with my thoughts:

I'd love to see a female iconic character. I adore female action heroines-- maybe it's a Ripley fixation from watching Alien/Aliens when I was much younger, I don't know.

That said, I can kind of get why we might choose an iconic male character. For an RPG we're talking about putting forward a character that you'd like to be... and as much as a female player says that they can't identify with a male iconic character, if that's true it would also be true in reverse with a female iconic character for a much larger portion of the fanbase, no? You can't have it both ways and say that male players will enjoy looking at a female player character and don't need to identify with her.

I also suspect that if we did put forward a female iconic character (a la Aribeth) the response could easily be that we made her too sexy. A bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", perhaps. Hard to say, but we're going to always have to pick one, and the idea is to be eye-catching and sexy-- as opposed to politically correct. I'm no marketing guy, but that seems to be pretty much a given.

That said, I hope you enjoy the character and the game for what it is, rather than dwelling on what you perceive it might have been. You do get to play a female character, and as always we make plenty of options to accomodate female players in the game.

Hope that helps. Cheers!

BioWare already created  a great, iconic female character in Mass Effect. It's a crime she was ignored in favorite of bonehead generic milatary guy #1138.

[Aprudena Gist]

WilliamShatner wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

There's already a thread on this very subject, but I'll respond to it with my thoughts:

I'd love to see a female iconic character. I adore female action heroines-- maybe it's a Ripley fixation from watching Alien/Aliens when I was much younger, I don't know.

That said, I can kind of get why we might choose an iconic male character. For an RPG we're talking about putting forward a character that you'd like to be... and as much as a female player says that they can't identify with a male iconic character, if that's true it would also be true in reverse with a female iconic character for a much larger portion of the fanbase, no? You can't have it both ways and say that male players will enjoy looking at a female player character and don't need to identify with her.

I also suspect that if we did put forward a female iconic character (a la Aribeth) the response could easily be that we made her too sexy. A bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", perhaps. Hard to say, but we're going to always have to pick one, and the idea is to be eye-catching and sexy-- as opposed to politically correct. I'm no marketing guy, but that seems to be pretty much a given.

That said, I hope you enjoy the character and the game for what it is, rather than dwelling on what you perceive it might have been. You do get to play a female character, and as always we make plenty of options to accomodate female players in the game.

Hope that helps. Cheers!

BioWare already created  a great, iconic female character in Mass Effect. It's a crime she was ignored in favorite of bonehead generic milatary guy #1138.

There is no man Shep there is only Fem Shep.

[DadeLeviathan]

I've never paid much attention to the marketing of games. I myself know a good deal about marketing with researching business and gaming has a far larger male demographic than a female one.

It goes back to the old adage of "you can't have your cake and eat it too." It would be too expensive to make two completely different advertising campaigns for both males and females, so your only option is to choose the larger of the two demographics and appeal to them.

It does get boring, I have to admit. I wish I could see some cover art with a female protagonist that looks like a heroine, and not a victoria's secret model that they dressed in armor and gave a weapon to, but alas that's not the way it works.

Modifié par DadeLeviathan, 09 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[heman14]

David Gaider wrote...

There's already a thread on this very subject, but I'll respond to it with my thoughts:

I'd love to see a female iconic character. I adore female action heroines-- maybe it's a Ripley fixation from watching Alien/Aliens when I was much younger, I don't know.

That said, I can kind of get why we might choose an iconic male character. For an RPG we're talking about putting forward a character that you'd like to be... and as much as a female player says that they can't identify with a male iconic character, if that's true it would also be true in reverse with a female iconic character for a much larger portion of the fanbase, no? You can't have it both ways and say that male players will enjoy looking at a female player character and don't need to identify with her.

I also suspect that if we did put forward a female iconic character (a la Aribeth) the response could easily be that we made her too sexy. A bit of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", perhaps. Hard to say, but we're going to always have to pick one, and the idea is to be eye-catching and sexy-- as opposed to politically correct. I'm no marketing guy, but that seems to be pretty much a given.

That said, I hope you enjoy the character and the game for what it is, rather than dwelling on what you perceive it might have been. You do get to play a female character, and as always we make plenty of options to accomodate female players in the game.

Hope that helps. Cheers!

I think the world of Bioware (and will continue to do so) so don't be too upset by me saying this, but this is a pretty lame excuse.

Maybe this has been said in the thread already but, Metroid is a pretty strong and iconic franchise that just happens to have a female lead. 

And before folks go off saying that they are two different genre's...I don't see a set character in an action adventure title as any different than a set character in an RPG.  In both cases...you are playing the role of a character created by someone else. 

[SageGaspar]

I have no access to demographics but my personal experience is that Dragon Age pretty much bridged any gender gap, including many who had never even played a Bioware RPG before. Alistair has already become the iconic straight female romance partner, it's sorta tough to overstate how many fans he has alone. But the combination of that and being able to make a character uniquely yours through origin and dialogue options with a story and romance that develops over the course of the game was a huge draw to many people.



I hate to say not to experiment but this is one franchise where a direct sequel with more of the same would be a huge draw. In either case don't underestimate how many female fans this series has. The smallish gritty expansion with a near-lack of Alistair turned away a lot of the ones I know already, a sequel with a completely new character that lacks customization and lacks the original cast with the marketing focusing on combat and the male warrior lead will probably hurt even more.

[mosaiclobster]

At this point it's hard to not just echo the statements of others, but...



Well, I just have a really hard time believing that DA2 would have suffered for a female (canon) lead. Bioware has already proven that they can create strong, accomplished female characters who are attractive but not oversexualized. And you know what? That's still a pretty huge cop-out. Hawke would be wearing full armor, so it's not like she'd have to be prancing around in the "robes of the witch" or something.



I love Bioware for the options they give female players, and for giving us well rounded NPCs and really powerful villains that are women. But it is frustrating to already be seeing Hawke always referred to as male, as was the case with ME. And as others have said, if we're having that problem within THIS community, can you imagine the confusion there will be for seasoned players who don't frequent forums, or new players to the franchise? Why on earth would anyone think they could play as a woman?

[Lily of the West]

Bioware folks, if you're still reading this thread, I want to weigh in as another female fan who thinks you really ought to be marketing to women too. Why? Because I missed out on Mass Effect when they both came out because I thought they were generic sci-fi dudebro shooters. And I bought DA because of the reviews, not the marketing.



Your games are SO AWESOME. As you can tell here, ladies love them! DA2 will be amazing and have a great storyline for both genders. That's how you always do it. But imagine if you actually marketed the game that was in the box, not the game that the marketing department tells you to pretend to sell! Women who felt like gaming was off-limits to them (and I used to be one) would be so excited to see a female main character marketed in ADDITION to a male main character, even if it's just in a few places... and as for the "sex sells" rule, go ahead and make her sexy, just put her in full armor covered in blood while screaming and stabbing a dragon in the eye or something. Don't tell me that wouldn't appeal to dudes!



The gaming industry has to stop the cycle of "women don't play games, so we market only to men, so then women don't play games." You're ignoring a huge potential fanbase. There are significant numbers of women out there who would be considered hardcore for the time and money they spend on gaming, but the game in question is Farmville or something similar - and they don't move on to mainstream console/PC gaming because they think they're not welcome. And, in a lot of cases, they aren't. But, Bioware, you're different. Market like it.



Oh, and David... I do love your work, but please don't "accommodate" me and fellow ladyfans in the game. I am a hardcore fan, I expect to be PANDERED TO. Get on it!

[Sutamina]

Well atleast there is some explaination given about why male hawke was picked over female hawke for the promotional material. I would however like to see some more female hawke shown like the different appearences for each class.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

David Gaider wrote...
 if that's true it would also be true in reverse with a female iconic character for a much larger portion of the fanbase, no?

Ah yes, Majority Rules, forever screwing over the minority.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 18 décembre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Maria Caliban]

At this point, I'd like to hear Lady Hawke's voice. Also, I wish the collector's or signature edition box was like that of Mass Effect 2 where there were no characters. Or DA:O CE with the sword design with an ambiguously gendered type behind them.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Not really, you can still get that segment without marketing a main character.

Its not a brand like Mario

Look at Starcraft

Look at it
LOOK AT STARCRAFT

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:59 .