17 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Dragon Age follows a very basic system.
Introduction > Ostagar > Lothering > Open world (recruitment) > End of game.

Now I was thinking a little bit and I'm concerned, the game's storyline spans 10 years and we're going to have obviously huge jumps in the time. Yet, will we still follow the same basic system or will the game be linear? Will the plot not advance until you're done with that specific timeline? I'm worried that we're going to have a system where we'll go.. let's take Dragon Age:Origins terms.
Introduction [year one] > Ostagar [year 2] > Lothering [year 3] > Redcliffe [year 4] > Orzammar [year 5] > Dalish Elves [year 6] > Mage tower [year 7] > Denerim [year 8].

I'm worried that either you'll be forced to do a segment before the game's time advances and making the game linear or that the game will follow Assassin's Creed 2 and Fable plot and just make it one huge time skip.

[hexaligned]

No one knows, well except the devs. It's just as possible half the game will take place in say year one, something happens, say you get imprisoned for 8 years fable style, with the second half of the game taking place in year ten.

[Koffeegirl]

Hopefully we will find more out in the Game Informer interview.

[Belicia]

I just started playing a rookie, a lot of places do not understand! Like him to teach!

[Gibb_Shepard]

Well, Dave, i have a feeling the 10 year time span will actually have a playable 7 years, which is cut into 3 segments. But we'll wait and see.

[Kel_Sjet]

My only real concern with a multi-year timespan for a game is that it will be like DA2 and not like some other games that do it in a much better fashion.

One of the biggest issues I had with the multi-year timespan of DA2 is that nothing actually changes from year to year as far as the 'environment' is concerned.

NPCs that are standing around in a spot in year 1 are standing around in the same spot, saying the same thing 10 years later.
NPCs are walking around in exactly the same route for 10 years, and they all look exactly the same as they did for 10 years!!
NPCs are sitting in the exact same spot, drinking the exact same drink, bantering the exact same banter for 10 whole years!!!
Everyone looks exactly the same age as they did in year 1 even 10 years later. All NPCs, companions, even Hawke, haven't aged a day.
Heck even the streets are the same, no rust, no extra leaves, no nothing, everything is identical to how it was. For 10 whole years.Heck, you would have expected Fenris to clean up his house in that 10 year timespan, but no. Dead bodies are just lying there, not decaying, for 10 years!
Broken items (wagons, carts, boxes, etc) are all exactly in the same spot for 10 years.
In general, the entire city is totally lifeless. There is no change.

I think team DA2 expected too much from the 'suspension of disbelief'. I mean, it is a bit too much to ask for us to believe that even though the only thing that separates the years is a 'fade to black' and a cut-scene telling us "10 year later", that we should accept it.

Now I know I'll get a lot of flack for this from the diehard fanatics that are the majority on these forums, especially since there doesn't seem to be any indication that team DA2 thought this was an issue. But there have been many other games (e.g. Fable) that show the passage of time in a much more believable fashion.


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "LOLOLO FABLE > DA2 IN EVERFINK LOLOLO", I am saying that when you want to show passage of time, and do a game story that spans many years, you cannot just do it with a lol-cutscene.


Basically, the 10 year thing in DA2 didn't really work out since it was very very lazily implemented. And instead of accepting that, I get the feeling that the players who didn't like it are being blamed instead of the dev team acknowledging that their attempt at a somewhat ham-fisted implementation of time shouldn't just be 'forced down the players throats'.

I found it extremely troubling that during the early days of DA2 when this point of "showing the passage of time with some actual changes to the environment and NPCs" was brought up as a criticism, team DA2s response was (paraphrased) "you are just a stupid player. too stupid to understand the immense nuance and complexity of DA2". I kinda gave up on the franchise after that. *shrugs*

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Now I know I'll get a lot of flack for this from the diehard fanatics that are the majority on these forums, especially since there doesn't seem to be any indication that team DA2 thought this was an issue. But there have been many other games (e.g. Fable) that show the passage of time in a much more believable fashion.


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "LOLOLO FABLE > DA2 IN EVERFINK LOLOLO", I am saying that when you want to show passage of time, and do a game story that spans many years, you cannot just do it with a lol-cutscene.

The only time in the whole Fable series that shows the passage of time correctly is when the PC is captured and escapes from the spire in Fable II and that is only 2 towns (and both depend on the actions of the PC you have to help or stop an evil cult from messing up one town and can you investing a lot money in another town) if you had any babies are now little kids, other than that they never show the passage of time in a major way.

I've been playing Fable III and other than any children growing from a baby to an 8 year kid (and they never grow any older), and your character getting grey hair, scars, and fat that is the only passage of time that is every shown. Your spouses don't age, the NPCs don't age, hell even the dog doesn't age. The revolution you lead in Fable III might as well take a 2 weeks to a month to pull off.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 26 août 2011 - 04:05 .

[Kel_Sjet]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...
The only time in the whole Fable series that shows the passage of time correctly is when the PC is captured and escapes from the spire in Fable II

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong.

In fable 1, (I played the PC version, not sure what the console version is about). I started the game as a child and played all the way through adulthood and then my twilight years. My character aged as expected (much much more believably than my Hawke) and even had grey hair by the end.


But then again, this is not even what I am talking about. As expected, DA2 diehard fans will totally miss the point I am making and instead start bashing something which is mere tangential to the core point.

Whether or not you think that Fable series has a 'good enough' progression of time doesn't actually excuse the fact that DA2's progression of time is downright horrible. Just because you feel some other game X or Y didn't have a good passage of time, doesn't make it "OK" for DA2 to have no progression of time at all. I mean srsly, they didn't even try in DA2.


Meh, this is why I almost always regret posting on these forums. I make a point which is perfectly valid, that being "if you want to have a multi year game at least try to make the passage of time somewhat believable", but instead, within seconds I start getting bashed by people who claim that DA2 was perfect and that all other games were bad. /sigh

I never understood why this aspect is so unique to the DA2 community. I am a part of many many game communities across a vast spectrum of games and genres. Only in this community do I find such an overzealous behavior, which has absolutely no room for anyone saying anything negative about the game.



Guess I'll just stick to those other communities then, I'm out.

[happy_daiz]

Wow, way necro post.

[veramis]

They should consider making it just 3 years instead of 10. I know DA2 will be an epic game with much more content than its predecessor, but 10 years may be just too much for any rpg game.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nah. They should consider making it like Origins with just the 1 - 2 years timeline. 3 if you include Witch Hunt. I'm hoping Oghren makes a return too in DA2. And please, can with have Epic Templar Guy as a companion Bioware?

[naledgeborn]

I'm gonna have to go with Kel_Sjet on this one.

Fable II did an especially good job at this. In the prologue you could side with the Guards or Thieves, 10 years later the same neighborhood is either a thriving market place or a pisspot, ghetto shanty town.

Fast forward to Westcliffe I think? When you get there it's little more than a gamorrean bandit camp. You have the option to fund the town's expansion and development (out of your own pocket) or not. If you did, 10 years later you get triple your investment. And the best part, Westcliffe became a bustling port city rather than remain the glorified slum it used to be.

For all of the Fable franchise's missteps they pulled this off really well. Not to mention showing passage of time through your in game children and what not.

If the Dragon Age series is going to continue with the n year time span trend they should really take notes.

[DeathDragon185]

a year old??????

[Tpiom]

...not to mention Alistair and the Grey Warden only got 20 more years to live.

[Arthur Cousland]

Nice necro...

Many times, 3-6 years later, npcs are still having the same, repeating conversations. If their butts aren't sore from sitting in the same place in the Hanged Man for the past decade, they could at least talk about something different. I'd hate to imagine what they smell like. If they don't move, I also assume that they aren't bathing or using the restroom...

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...
The only time in the whole Fable series that shows the passage of time correctly is when the PC is captured and escapes from the spire in Fable II

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong.

In fable 1, (I played the PC version, not sure what the console version is about). I started the game as a child and played all the way through adulthood and then my twilight years. My character aged as expected (much much more believably than my Hawke) and even had grey hair by the end.

The Hero in Fable 1 is the only thing that ages.

But then again, this is not even what I am talking about. As expected, DA2 diehard fans will totally miss the point I am making and instead start bashing something which is mere tangential to the core point.

Whether or not you think that Fable series has a 'good enough' progression of time doesn't actually excuse the fact that DA2's progression of time is downright horrible. Just because you feel some other game X or Y didn't have a good passage of time, doesn't make it "OK" for DA2 to have no progression of time at all. I mean srsly, they didn't even try in DA2.

No I get your point, while Fable 2 and Fable 3 show some time progression but it's uneven at best.

The kids you have grow from babies to 5 years old but that is as far it goes, none of your wives/husbands ever age, and most of dialogue stays the same with only a few changes to major events and if your character is good or evil. 

My point is that DA2 and Fable 2/3 are all flawed in how they show the passage of time. But then I think all video games are flawed in that department. Stopping the Blight in DA:O took about 2 years, but at times felt like it took place over a week. The same with Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, and dozen others.   

Meh, this is why I almost always regret posting on these forums. I make a point which is perfectly valid, that being "if you want to have a multi year game at least try to make the passage of time somewhat believable", but instead, within seconds I start getting bashed by people who claim that DA2 was perfect and that all other games were bad. /sigh

We do? 
Since when? 
I can't recall a single positive thread about DA2 ever made here that stayed positive more than 20 minutes.

I never understood why this aspect is so unique to the DA2 community. I am a part of many many game communities across a vast spectrum of games and genres. Only in this community do I find such an overzealous behavior, which has absolutely no room for anyone saying anything negative about the game.

Don't take this wrong way but WTF are you smoking? There are MORE negative comments about DA2 here than they are positive.

Guess I'll just stick to those other communities then, I'm out.

OK.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 28 août 2011 - 05:49 .

[esper]

I do like that we knew precisely how long time it took, and I hope that in Da3, the game also clearly states that years passed. That being said. No more three year long time skips. It is too long for us players to properly follow. Just make the time skip one year or the rest of the year out or something like that.

[MAIDENHEAD 666]

The whole 10 year timespan is meaningless. It could easily have taken place over 10 months or even 10 weeks. Time has no meaning in this game. From what I understand the events of Origins took place over a 1 or 2 year period and that game took longer to complete and there were a lot more things to do and places to go.
It's a sales trick. Always make a product appear bigger and better than what it actually is.