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Use heavy metal music for marketing, please.


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#151
Seifz

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marshalleck wrote...

It's fine if you don't like it, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I would suggest however that you may have a skewed perception of metal; in my mind, it is not so much a formulaic composition and mish-mash of heavily distorted guitars and pounding double-bass drum that makes a band metal.


The definition of "heavy metal" and even "metal" seems to change constantly.  In the 60s, some Beatles songs were considered "metal" (e.g. Hey, Bulldog).  I'm using the more modern definition, which generally includes rythmic power chords, high volumes, pounding bass drums, etc.

There is a conflation of stylistic trapping, which legions of unimaginative followers can impersonate; with the true essence of metal, again in my own opinion, which is a rebirth of the romantic period of western music. It rejects the rationalism and dominance over nature by modernity. Death metal did this with violent, atonal chromatic riffing and guttural vocalization, literally creating the aural aesthetic of "nature, red in tooth and claw." Black metal, being born in the heart of Scandinavian winters, using low-fi recording, fuzzy distortion and harsh screeching vocals evokes images in the mind of dark, frozen, and desolate mountain ranges--a metaphorical rejection of the overtly consumerist, liberal, decadent modern culture that the genre's pioneers found themselves drowning in back in the early 90s Norway. It sought escape to a more primitive time, one where modern humanist moral systems hold no sway, hence all the black metaller fascination with medieval weaponry and armor and such.


These themes also exist in other genres, especially folk, alternative <genre>, and early rock.  These other genres usually leave out the guttural vocalization and Viking references, though.  I prefer it that way.  :)

That said, I don't understand the appeal of black metal.  I'm fine with anti-religious lyrics, as I often share their views, but the songs about National Socialists, Satanism, and misanthropy are pretty ridiculous.  I know, not all black metal bands sing about these things.  I don't like the repetitive nature of their songs, the screaming, or the insanely heavy distortion, either.

Folk metal is just one more development in that tradition; it is the metal that has become older, wiser, no longer easily impressed by or swayed to violent action and raucous noise as metal was in its juvenile stage. It seeks to create something of the earth, something lasting, something of the past that can be a part of the future, hence the adoption of folk forms.


Sure, and I do like a great deal of folk music.  I just don't understand what the 20-30 seconds of distorted guitar added to either of the songs that you linked.  I think they would have been better without, and they were otherwise quite good indeed.

Folk and metal are a very strange fusion.  Of the examples I've heard (and I've heard more than just those two), songs tend to be either metal songs with a tiny bit of folk (say, a fiddle playing along) or folk with a tiny bit of metal (like the ones you linked).  I think the two genres are better on their own.

But hey, what do I know about metal, I've only been listening to it for some 20 years. Some guys online said Motley Crue and Bon Jovi are totally metal. They have long hair and electric guitars. Kick start my heart, right? Soooo metal. :huh:


I'll assume that you read and understood my actual point, which was that glam metal is a BS genre.

#152
marshalleck

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Seifz wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's fine if you don't like it, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I would suggest however that you may have a skewed perception of metal; in my mind, it is not so much a formulaic composition and mish-mash of heavily distorted guitars and pounding double-bass drum that makes a band metal.


The definition of "heavy metal" and even "metal" seems to change constantly.  In the 60s, some Beatles songs were considered "metal" (e.g. Hey, Bulldog).  I'm using the more modern definition, which generally includes rythmic power chords, high volumes, pounding bass drums, etc.

There is a conflation of stylistic trapping, which legions of unimaginative followers can impersonate; with the true essence of metal, again in my own opinion, which is a rebirth of the romantic period of western music. It rejects the rationalism and dominance over nature by modernity. Death metal did this with violent, atonal chromatic riffing and guttural vocalization, literally creating the aural aesthetic of "nature, red in tooth and claw." Black metal, being born in the heart of Scandinavian winters, using low-fi recording, fuzzy distortion and harsh screeching vocals evokes images in the mind of dark, frozen, and desolate mountain ranges--a metaphorical rejection of the overtly consumerist, liberal, decadent modern culture that the genre's pioneers found themselves drowning in back in the early 90s Norway. It sought escape to a more primitive time, one where modern humanist moral systems hold no sway, hence all the black metaller fascination with medieval weaponry and armor and such.


These themes also exist in other genres, especially folk, alternative , and early rock.  These other genres usually leave out the guttural vocalization and Viking references, though.  I prefer it that way.  :)

That said, I don't understand the appeal of black metal.  I'm fine with anti-religious lyrics, as I often share their views, but the songs about National Socialists, Satanism, and misanthropy are pretty ridiculous.  I know, not all black metal bands sing about these things.  I don't like the repetitive nature of their songs, the screaming, or the insanely heavy distortion, either.

Folk metal is just one more development in that tradition; it is the metal that has become older, wiser, no longer easily impressed by or swayed to violent action and raucous noise as metal was in its juvenile stage. It seeks to create something of the earth, something lasting, something of the past that can be a part of the future, hence the adoption of folk forms.


Sure, and I do like a great deal of folk music.  I just don't understand what the 20-30 seconds of distorted guitar added to either of the songs that you linked.  I think they would have been better without, and they were otherwise quite good indeed.

Folk and metal are a very strange fusion.  Of the examples I've heard (and I've heard more than just those two), songs tend to be either metal songs with a tiny bit of folk (say, a fiddle playing along) or folk with a tiny bit of metal (like the ones you linked).  I think the two genres are better on their own.

But hey, what do I know about metal, I've only been listening to it for some 20 years. Some guys online said Motley Crue and Bon Jovi are totally metal. They have long hair and electric guitars. Kick start my heart, right? Soooo metal. :huh:


I'll assume that you read and understood my actual point, which was that glam metal is a BS genre.


Re: NSBM, i.e. national-socialist black metal. All I can say is the young and impressionable are often superficially attracted to that which is considered socially taboo; and as I alluded to earlier, many people lack a capacity to internalize art and decipher the intent; one interpretation becomes impersonated by an impressionable ignoramus, and the next thing you know, legions of spoiled suburban children are trying to ****** off their parents and scare their teachers by adopting **** propaganda, corpsepaint, and spitting up fake blood. Black metal as a legitimate artistic expression is long since dead; it was corrupted by the nihilistic, sensationalist mentality of mainstream western culture, discarded everything of value and filled black metal's rotten corpse with its own vapid inanity. Modern black metal, especially the NS variant, is puerile.

Re: glam metal, I'll concede any discussion there. I have no idea what glam was trying to accomplish, but much to my approval it failed. Miserably.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:18 .


#153
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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What the hell did this thread turn in to? I come back from my DAO session and see this miniature battleground over here.

And what's wrong with folk metal? I do agree thet there are quite a few bands who are "folk metal" but use the folk instruments very sparingly, but there are some who mix the two genres exceptionally well. Eluveitie do a perfect job of mixing folk and metal imo. There's just enough of both in their music.



#154
marshalleck

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Whoops, I wanted to respond to this:

The definition of "heavy metal" and even "metal" seems to change
constantly.  In the 60s, some Beatles songs were considered
"metal" (e.g. Hey, Bulldog).  I'm using the more modern definition,
which generally includes rythmic power chords, high volumes, pounding
bass drums, etc.


I think my definition stands true, from the early proto-metal of the mid 20th century (Link Wray's "Rumble" is metal as hell; one of the first people to listen to it thought it sounded like a knife fight in an alley, hence the title of the song. "Rumbles" were not something to speak of in polite society at the time, and here was a song throwing the darker side of American street life into everyone's faces) to some of the Beatles crazier work (I particularly enjoy Helter Skelter, fairly extreme at the time) to early Black Sabbath before they became a circus, other 70s heavy metal/doom, 80s thrash and death metal, 90s black metal, on and on. There is a common thread present amongst and linking all the stylistic innovators, and it's superficially mistaken to be loud distorted instruments. That's often part of it, sure, but if that's all you take away from the music you are not getting the complete package. A photocopy of a Rembrandt is not a work of art.

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:34 .


#155
Seifz

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marshalleck wrote...

I think my definition stands true, from the early proto-metal of the mid 20th century (Link Wray's "Rumble" is metal as hell; one of the first people to listen to it thought it sounded like a knife fight in an alley, hence the title of the song) to some of the Beatles crazier work (I particularly enjoy Helter Skelter, fairly extreme at the time) to early Black Sabbath before they became a circus, other 70s heavy metal/doom, 80s thrash and death metal, 90s black metal, on and on. There is a common thread present amongst and linking all the stylistic innovators, and it's superficially mistaken to be loud distorted instruments. That's often part of it, sure, but if that's all you take away from the music you are not getting the complete package. A photocopy of a Rembrandt is not art.


Fair enough.  As I said, I don't hate all metal out of principle, or something.  I just think that 98% of it is crap.  There are certainly some gems in there, but not enough to change my general opinion.  When someone starts linking me bands that will change my mind, I must admit that I'm rather doutbful going in.  I'm almost always right, though.

The link a few posts up of folk metal from Eluveitie is a good example of that.  That's terrible.  It's everything that I hate about metal (loud, growling vocals that I can't understand, repetitive, heavily distorted rythmic power chords, and a bass drum that never stops) played over an insanely repetitive "folk" tune.  Ick.

#156
Xewaka

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Seifz wrote...

I just think that 98% of it is crap.


Strugeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

Heavy Metal does fit with a fantasy setting. At least the cover illustrations, anyhow.

#157
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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Seifz wrote...

The link a few posts up of folk metal from Eluveitie is a good example of that.  That's terrible.  It's everything that I hate about metal (loud, growling vocals that I can't understand, repetitive, heavily distorted rythmic power chords, and a bass drum that never stops) played over an insanely repetitive "folk" tune.  Ick.

Image IPB

I give up. I get it that you don't like harsh vocals and the "obnoxious bass", but the "insanely repetitive "folk" tune" bit got me. ALL music has repetition. ALL OF IT. And the folk parts weren't even that repetitive.
By your standarts of repetitiveness, you should really hate rap and trance. Hell, most of the music...

Also, what's up with the quotations around folk? Since when did celtic folk stoped being folk music?

Modifié par DrunkDeadman, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:53 .


#158
Seifz

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DrunkDeadman wrote...

Seifz wrote...

The link a few posts up of folk metal from Eluveitie is a good example of that.  That's terrible.  It's everything that I hate about metal (loud, growling vocals that I can't understand, repetitive, heavily distorted rythmic power chords, and a bass drum that never stops) played over an insanely repetitive "folk" tune.  Ick.

Image IPB

I give up. I get it that you don't like harsh vocals and the "obnoxious bass", but the "insanely repetitive "folk" tune" bit got me. ALL music has repetition. ALL OF IT. And the folk parts weren't even that repetitive.
By your standarts of repetitiveness, you should really hate rap and trance. Hell, most of the music...


I listened to more of that tune, and the folk part changed up a bit.  It got better.  The folk tune during the verses was the insanely repetitive folk part.

I'm hard to please.  I don't deny that.  I like a lot of music from a lot of different genres, but I'm very picky.  Rap and trance are generally worse than metal.  There are exceptions.

#159
marshalleck

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Hmm, you'd probably really dislike dark ambient and martial industrial. More funky genres and undecipherable noise. :P

Still, it seems to be one of the last bastions of creative musical impulse around these days. Interestingly though, I think some of it could actually fit parts of Dragon Age without being anachronistic.

#160
svendigo

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Holy crap, does the simple statement "I don't like metal" really need so much discussing about?

It's like watching two kids arguing against each other that the other kid's daddy's car is less awesome than his own. Gawd.

#161
Suicider_11

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For me I like Symphony X, Borknagar's Origin and Empiricism, Death's The Sound of Perseverance, or Megadeth's Youthanasia or Dimmu Borgir's earlier Albums. Iron Maiden woul be also cool :devil::devil::devil::devil:

Modifié par Suicider_11, 19 septembre 2010 - 08:52 .


#162
Trianell

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Metal music worked out pretty well on Prince of persia: Warrior within.







I think this kind of music would also fit in dragon age.

#163
HarradX

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Seifz wrote...

1. Most metal is loud and obnoxious. Screaming, repetitive power chords, "I can play super awesome guitar, watch!", etc. I don't have the patience to find the few good songs amongst all of the crap.

2. Metal fans are also generally obnoxious. They always have a list of 5-10 bands that nobody's ever heard of and those bands are "real" metal. The rest is just mainstream crap, you know? Plus, anyone who doesn't like metal has terrible taste and is just a product of society. Also, Guitar Hero and Rock Band should include only metal tracks because those are harder to play. Right, guys?! Right?!


Seeing that extensive debate between you and Zarok with no real point..I don't think the problem is your opinion, but that you're being condescending. 

You make discriminatory  generalizations about a whole, comparatively large group of people, justifying that with it being within the margin of your opinion. What goes around comes around, what goes up must come down, you know.

#164
Guest_DSerpa_*

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So thanks for that.

Modifié par DSerpa, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:21 .


#165
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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SO... back on topic then.



I never really seen anybody post their thoughts on Apocalyptica being used for marketing. I really do think that they fit quite nicely with DA.

#166
Schuback

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What would you do if Justin Bieber is endorser for DA2?

Modifié par Schuback, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:51 .


#167
KhorinShizucor

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DrunkDeadman wrote...
I never really seen anybody post their thoughts on Apocalyptica being used for marketing. I really do think that they fit quite nicely with DA.


This or E.S. Posthumus. Listening to their music makes you feel epic.

#168
Halfdan The Menace

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How about SmackDown! theme? Image IPB




Edited by ~Selene Moonsong


Lets not post images with sound attachments.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 19 septembre 2010 - 08:44 .


#169
Special_Agent_Goodwrench

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Schuback wrote...

What would you do if Justin Bieber is endorser for DA2?

Morphine. Lots of it.

KhorinShizucor wrote...

DrunkDeadman wrote...
I never really seen anybody post their thoughts on Apocalyptica being used for marketing. I really do think that they fit quite nicely with DA.


This or E.S. Posthumus. Listening to their music makes you feel epic.

Agreed. E.S. kicks some serious ass as well.

Modifié par DrunkDeadman, 19 septembre 2010 - 05:11 .


#170
Guest_JoePinasi1989_*

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DSerpa wrote...

Specifically anything with Dio. Rainbow in the Dark, Last in Line, Holy Diver, the man never made a bad song.

I recommend Kill the King:



Or Mob Rules:


Oh, I friggen wish!...

#171
WilliamShatner

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I think they should use Cassandra by ABBA as the main trailer theme.

#172
Maverick827

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Apparently videos, when embedded on these forums, automatically play when you load the page.

But no, signatures larger than 50 pixels high would be too intrusive and annoying. I get it.

#173
teeayenkay

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This, obviously.
Just imagine this on the Destiny tralier Image IPB

Modifié par teeayenkay, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:00 .


#174
javierabegazo

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Alright guys, take your love of music to the Off Topic forum please