4085 réponses à ce sujet

[slumlord722]

From the PC Gamer article:



"For inspiration, they’ve looked two floors down in their Edmonton office, and incorporated a Mass Effect-style paraphrase system. '"When you see the choices, you don’t want to read something, and then have the protagonist just say it out loud. What Mass Effect did was to paraphrase it, which allows you to get the gist of what’s going to happen.”'



The thing is, it seemed to me that the "select sentence and have shepard paraphrase it into something you absolutely did not want" was a HUGE complaint amongst people. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have my character say exactly whats written on the screen. Which is funny, because that's what they are saying gamers don't want.



Opinions?

[Morroian]

slumlord722 wrote...

The thing is, it seemed to me that the "select sentence and have shepard paraphrase it into something you absolutely did not want" was a HUGE complaint amongst people. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have my character say exactly whats written on the screen. Which is funny, because that's what they are saying gamers don't want.
Opinions?

The DA team are aware of that issue and are doing what they can to avoid it.

[slumlord722]

But, didn't they basically say they're doing the same exact kind of thing?

[Riona45]

No, it's not the exact same thing, especially considering that they are adding icons so the intent of each option is more clear. 

[Morroian]

slumlord722 wrote...

But, didn't they basically say they're doing the same exact kind of thing?

A paraphrasing system doesn't automatically lead to mistakes between the paraphrase and what is actually said. It should be possibly for any paraphrase to convey what is actually said or done accurately.

[Caralampio]

The paraphrase system in ME led to big slips where your character said basically the opposite of what you wanted. I think the problem is that when paraphrasing each person's own psychology gets into play. Put ten people to paraphrase something and you'll get ten different answers. People that think along the same line as the game designer will get his intent right. People that reason differently won't. The only way to avoid this is putting the whole phrase there.

The conversation wheel is among virtually everything other "improvment" I don't like that's announced for DA2. I'm even seriously considering not buying it.

[slumlord722]

Eh, haha, I'm pretty damn sure I'm gonna buy this game, I'm just unsettled that they are emulating (however improved its claimed to be) a system that really annoyed a lot of people.

Like the guy above me said, everyone paraphrasing differently. There's one option that will always make sure you say what you want to say though - and thats actually saying whats written. I don't know why there has to be an element of chance to it.

Modifié par slumlord722, 14 octobre 2010 - 02:21 .

[tallon1982]

When are we expecting to see more info on the site itself? I mean it's all well and good to update on the forum but I'd love to see more on the site.

[Raven_26]

slumlord722 wrote...

From the PC Gamer article:

"For inspiration, they’ve looked two floors down in their Edmonton office, and incorporated a Mass Effect-style paraphrase system. '"When you see the choices, you don’t want to read something, and then have the protagonist just say it out loud. What Mass Effect did was to paraphrase it, which allows you to get the gist of what’s going to happen.”'

The thing is, it seemed to me that the "select sentence and have shepard paraphrase it into something you absolutely did not want" was a HUGE complaint amongst people. Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather have my character say exactly whats written on the screen. Which is funny, because that's what they are saying gamers don't want.

Opinions?

I have heared alot about that, but personly I don't se the problem. In ME2 when you had to chouse one or the other, I thought they did a pritty good job at letting know you what was what. Sherpard never said anything I didn't antisepait.

My brother did that that problem, but then he never had a conversasion with Sten without getting disaproval lol

I think it will be intresting, but it seams like they might have made it a little simple now - ie. there will be icons or something that says "this is a flirt" ect or something like that

[Wivvix]

Seems for the console version at least, damage dealt won't be displayed above the target's head.
Also got a look at the conversation wheel. I still think this is the single greatest mistake they've made with DA2. I wish they'd had the foresight to make it OPTIONAL.
Have a setting you can choose; conversation wheel or full dialogue. This way players can choose the style they like best, and Bioware gets even more customers.
Yeah, I should be getting paid for this.

Modifié par Wivvix, 15 octobre 2010 - 01:18 .

[KRAZYKIERAN4U]

NEW SIGNATURE ADDITION =D

http://dragonage.bioware.com/

i cant wait for this game. I personally dont care about how they choose to use tghe voiceacting.

Slumlord722 has a really good point though. ME was really annoying wen it came to the seech weel thing =/

[KRAZYKIERAN4U]

NEW SIGNATURE ADDITION 
http://dragonage.bioware.com/
i cant wait for this game. I personally dont care about how they choose to use tghe voiceacting.
Slumlord722 has a really good point though. ME was really annoying wen it came to the seech weel thing =/

[Blessed Silence]

Normally I don't read this much, but the news of Alistair possibly making an appearance makes me a bit wary.



I hope it is done well.

[Riona45]

Caralampio wrote...

The paraphrase system in ME led to big slips where your character said basically the opposite of what you wanted. I think the problem is that when paraphrasing each person's own psychology gets into play. Put ten people to paraphrase something and you'll get ten different answers. People that think along the same line as the game designer will get his intent right. People that reason differently won't. The only way to avoid this is putting the whole phrase there.

But as stated before, this time there will be intent icons that should mitigate this problem.

[Riona45]

slumlord722 wrote...

Eh, haha, I'm pretty damn sure I'm gonna buy this game, I'm just unsettled that they are emulating (however improved its claimed to be) a system that really annoyed a lot of people.

But  a lot of people weren't annoyed by it, so that isn't really much of a point.

Wivvix wrote...
Also got a look at the conversation wheel. I still think this is the single greatest mistake they've made with DA2. I wish they'd had the foresight to make it OPTIONAL.

It has nothing to do with a lack of foresight.  Putting in more than one conversation system would not be economical, and for DA2 they chose the dialogue wheel and voice acting.

[Dave of Canada]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Normally I don't read this much, but the news of Alistair possibly making an appearance makes me a bit wary.

It's probably Drunk Alistair.

He'll be a party.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 octobre 2010 - 01:53 .

[augustburnt]

WOW I felt so excited, up till now... No paragon/renegade, only human, no saving the world from a greater evil, no wardens. Now there's going to be a definitive good answer and bad answer. This isnt Dragon Age, this is crap, to put it nicely.

Edit: wil there even be a charecter customization or will Hawke always look the same?

Modifié par augustburnt, 16 octobre 2010 - 02:57 .

[Riona45]

augustburnt wrote...

WOW I felt so excited, up till now... No paragon/renegade...

DA:O didn't have that either.

no wardens.

They're there, they just aren't the focus of the story this time.  The whole setting doesn't revolve around the Wardens. 

Now there's going to be a definitive good answer and bad answer.

Err, how do you figure that?  The game doesn't have a morality meter.

[slumlord722]

So wait, all because some people didn't mind it, it isn't a legitimate complaint from those who do?

[augustburnt]

Riona45 wrote...

augustburnt wrote...

WOW I felt so excited, up till now... No paragon/renegade...

DA:O didn't have that either.

no wardens.

They're there, they just aren't the focus of the story this time.  The whole setting doesn't revolve around the Wardens. 

Now there's going to be a definitive good answer and bad answer.

Err, how do you figure that?  The game doesn't have a morality meter.

Sorry, just reread the original post and misunderstood some of the stuff >.>

[Riona45]

slumlord722 wrote...

So wait, all because some people didn't mind it, it isn't a legitimate complaint from those who do?

It's a legitimate complaint, just not a compelling one all by itself.  You basically just said that Bioware shouldn't have have used one particular element because some people didn't like it.  You could say that about pretty much any game mechanic.

Modifié par Riona45, 16 octobre 2010 - 03:23 .

[slumlord722]

Oh, I see.



I would say the difference to me is that it seemed like a game mechanic that a large portion of people felt frustration with, not just a gribble of a few particular people.

[Stevie 402]

Riona45 wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...


David said somewhere that the mage boon isn't happening, like you never asked for it.

That is incorrect.

Its seems according to David that the crown doesn't have any say so in regards to the Chantry or the Circle. The king/Queen could have asked for the release of the circle and the chantry said no. It could be used a possible catylyst to bring the world to the brink of war that the dwarf and the revered mother are discussing in DA2, not a Qunari invasion. The mages revolt because the chantry would not yield to the king/queen's request. etc. Hawke would have a vested interest being that even if he/she is not a mage per-say his/her sister is an apostate mage and would be hunted if found out. I don't think the Darkspawn are going to play a big roll  this game, though I do think Flemeth will be a key character. I also believe this game will bridge the first and (possible third) game in the series and that Morrigan and the grey wardens child will be in the third. I guess you might consider this to be the "Empire Strikes Back" of the DA series. We shall see. I am just happy that Capt Janeway will be voicing Flemmeth again. I am looking forward to hearing our Hawke speak the dialogue. Though I am uncertain about the conversation wheel. I am looking forward to it and already have it no pre-order :D

[Riona45]

David Gaider said that the boons will have an effect on the game, including the mage boon. He also said that while the Chantry starts off by saying no, the conversation doesn't end there (it's obvious to me that to go into more detail would be to start spoiling things). So, to say that it "isn't happening, like you never asked for it" *is* patently false.

PS:  The mage boon, like the other boons, really only applies to Ferelden, not all of Thedas.

Modifié par Riona45, 16 octobre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Daerog]

Riona45 wrote...

David Gaider said that the boons will have an effect on the game, including the mage boon. He also said that while the Chantry starts off by saying no, the conversation doesn't end there (it's obvious to me that to go into more detail would be to start spoiling things). So, to say that it "isn't happening, like you never asked for it" *is* patently false.

PS:  The mage boon, like the other boons, really only applies to Ferelden, not all of Thedas.

Ya, BioWare could play it out like the news spreads through gossip by travelers going to Fereldan and back.

"Hey, did you hear that the crown in Fereldan is trying to take control of its Circle from the Chantry? Crazy stuff, I wonder how that would actually work..."
"Hey, did you hear that them elf folk in the capital of Fereldan have their own noble house and laws and whatnot? I guess them barbarians are so helpless with civi'zation that the elves decided they could do better! Ha!"
"I hear Fereldan is having closer ties with Orzammar. We should look into increasing our ties as well before Fereldan gets a too-good-to-be-true trade agreement on enchanted goods and we miss out!"

Maybe you won't see an impact outside of people mentioning it outside Fereldan. Still be cool to see the mage boon mentioned when the enchanters meet in Cumberland and the Libertarians go, "See! Just look at Fereldan, times are changing, this is the time to make our voices heard!" Won't change the plot, though.