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What do we KNOW so far? Updated: 02 Feb 2011 *spoilers* *FINAL UPDATE* (or IS it?)


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#851
wbrown2

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Riona45 wrote...


There is no "canon" ending for DA:O.  That would mean that the devs decided that there is one version of that story that is true for all players.  That is not the case, especially since we are supposed to be able to import save games into DA2.



If that's true then why did the Devs say they weren't done with morrigan?  If you didn't do the dark ritural then morrigan is no more interesting that any other character.  I'm not really think canon as in KotorI &II  but like in ME1 and ME2.  just a little guide line if you didn't play the first game. 

#852
Saibh

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SirJoeofthePub wrote...

Wow, I’m… underwhelmed. =\\\\\\\\

Sounds like a full game sized DLC rather than a “Dragon age II”


Say what you like about it being like Mass Effect, or you not liking the changes but what? ...What? I don't see how this has any basis whatsoever. Is Elder Scrolls IV a DLC because it doesn't have the same main character? Fall out 3? Fable 2?

I’m rather disappointed with the whole setting myself. I’m not interested really in playing DA:O just from a different perspective, I did that six times already, lol.


You missed the point. DA2 starts during the Blight, but most likely you're not staying in Ferelden--the game spans a period of ten years, so we know we're going to see the world post-Blight. We don't know how much of the game, but I'm going to guess quite a bit, since only 1/10th of the time could possibly be taken up by the Blight.

Also what exactly does this mean?

“No exclusive organization. No saving the world. No ancient evil.”

o.0 What are we going to be doing then “Rising to power” for giggles?


I believe the developers mean that you are the driving force behind the story. In DAO, the plot moves you along, quite without your consent. The world's problems are being dumped upon you. Which is a valid way to tell a story, but this story is about you (I'm guessing) moving the plot along through your power.

Well, I do suppose it’s better then what some games do, release a “2” as a prequel. I hate prequels when you expect a continuation of a story (which 2 implies)


This is exactly what's happening--but you get to start a bit during the Blight, since your hometown is Lothering. Think about it this way: the character doesn't just pop into existence once the game starts. You would have lived through the Blight--the game allows you to experience that time, rather than telling you about it. I imagine something plot-important (meeting Flemeth seems to be the consensus) happens, but still.

#853
Riona45

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wbrown2 wrote...

  If you didn't do the dark ritural then morrigan is no more interesting that any other character. 


I disagree with that.

#854
sikkwolf1

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 I'm steadfastly becoming underwhelmed with Biowares work. ME2 was subpar to ME1 and has been followed up with some very weak DLC. DAO was really good for it feeling really unpolished, but it too, has been supplemented with some seriously shabby DLC and one very lackluster "expansion" that was worthless... and a situation where the choices you made in DAO had no bearing on the canon of (Alister dead, and you took the throne... yet beginning of the game you're approached by Alister who is the King).

And what is the deal with suddenly removing other races from the situation? I would expect more races, and more gear, and better customization in a sequel... BUT, as the reality we were all treated to in ME2 goes... Bioware doesn't see things the same way.

#855
Sable Rhapsody

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Saibh wrote...
I believe the developers mean that you are the driving force behind the story. In DAO, the plot moves you along, quite without your consent. The world's problems are being dumped upon you. Which is a valid way to tell a story, but this story is about you (I'm guessing) moving the plot along through your power.


This is what makes me excited for DA2--the personal nature of the story.  Hopefully.  Maybe.  DA:O was about the Blight.  The ME series is about the Reaper invasion.  Your PCs were the main characters but ultimately it wasn't entirely about them (as evidenced by the fact that they can kick the bucket if you make certain choices).  But DA2 sounds like it's shaping up to be fundamentally about Hawke the person, and Hawke the legend, in the same way that the BG series was fundamentally about the Bhaalspawn or PS:T was about the Nameless One.  That is pretty freaking awesome.

...and what better game in which to play a power-hungry, ambitious, Azula-esque PC? :devil:

#856
mllrthyme

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I believe the developers mean that you are the driving force behind the story. In DAO, the plot moves you along, quite without your consent. The world's problems are being dumped upon you. Which is a valid way to tell a story, but this story is about you (I'm guessing) moving the plot along through your power.


This is what makes me excited for DA2--the personal nature of the story.  Hopefully.  Maybe.  DA:O was about the Blight.  The ME series is about the Reaper invasion.  Your PCs were the main characters but ultimately it wasn't entirely about them (as evidenced by the fact that they can kick the bucket if you make certain choices).  But DA2 sounds like it's shaping up to be fundamentally about Hawke the person, and Hawke the legend, in the same way that the BG series was fundamentally about the Bhaalspawn or PS:T was about the Nameless One.  That is pretty freaking awesome.

...and what better game in which to play a power-hungry, ambitious, Azula-esque PC? :devil:


Agreed.  What I think character driven story, I thought back to BG2 and how it was more about discovering the PC as a character and what their power/lineage entailed.  It was only a side effect that the PC's "birthright," so to speak, could effect the rest of the world.

#857
Sable Rhapsody

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mllrthyme wrote...
What I think character driven story, I thought back to BG2 and how it was more about discovering the PC as a character and what their power/lineage entailed.  It was only a side effect that the PC's "birthright," so to speak, could effect the rest of the world.


And to top it all off, it doesn't look like Hawke has any special birthright, unless you count the epic suck of having been born in Ferelden X number of years before a Blight:pinched:  Hawke seems to have started out as a more-or-less normal person, maybe marginally less so if you play him/her as a mage.  A normal person living a normal brown Ferelden life before the darkspawn turned up and ate Lothering.  And that ordinary person, without birthright or office or prophecy somesuch, grows up to be the person who changed the face of Thedas, and the player's job is to determine how.

#858
mllrthyme

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I think it will be an interesting story. You know Hawke's character has potential since sexy-Flemeth has an interest in him/her. One of my few concerns about DA2, however, is the length. I thought DA:O was a good length and would like to have something similar to that in the sequel, or even longer is okay too, considering it does span 10 years.

#859
Hawksblud

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

mllrthyme wrote...
What I think character driven story, I thought back to BG2 and how it was more about discovering the PC as a character and what their power/lineage entailed.  It was only a side effect that the PC's "birthright," so to speak, could effect the rest of the world.


And to top it all off, it doesn't look like Hawke has any special birthright, unless you count the epic suck of having been born in Ferelden X number of years before a Blight.  Hawke seems to have started out as a more-or-less normal person, maybe marginally less so if you play him/her as a mage.  A normal person living a normal brown Ferelden life before the darkspawn turned up and ate Lothering.  And that ordinary person, without birthright or office or prophecy somesuch, grows up to be the person who changed the face of Thedas, and the player's job is to determine how.


This. I am actually very excited to take a person with very little 'special' qualities of his own -- except for his personality -- and through purely my own choices, turn him/her into a legend. This, to me, seems much more player-oriented than either Mass Effect or Origins, actually. No longer are circumstances outside of my control dictating who my character can become, and how he/she does so.

In promoting Origins, I remember when the Powers-That-Be stated that there would be no morality meter because no matter who your character was, in the end he/she would end up doing roughly the same thing: defeating the Archdemon and ending the Blight. Even in this very regimented set of goals, as we saw, there was a lot of room for the player's personality and choices to shine through, even though we were just picking Dalish Elves over Werewolves, say, as our third fighting squad, or chosing Loghain to make the sacrifice rather than Alistair... little things, if you think about it, but to a character's point of view they mattered quite a bit.

Now, it appears that we-as-players have the chance to make decisions in very big things. Hawke is not given the quest to, say, defeat X bad guy and so become the defining force in Ferelden's future. Yes, Hawke becomes a legendary figure... but how many ways are there for that to be true? Is he to be a King Arthur, a Robin Hood, a Batman, a Guy Fawkes, a Captain Kidd, a Genghis Khan, an Al Capone, or a Gandhi? And that's only looking at male archetypes! There are so many ways to bring change, just because the promotional art shows a man with a sword, the decision has been made that Hawke is some specific person, hell, we are already each putting our own spin on him/her without more than a glimpse!

This is an opportunity, not a cage. From what we've heard so far, it is quite likely that our Hawke's will be able to vary widely, only now the difference will not be superficial-- sorry, but apart from a few mentions in Orzammar and the Circle Tower, the differences between my beloved Lady Aeducan and my male human Mage were largely superficial... each recruited four armies and defeated the Archdemon... the plot remained unchanged. Other than that, we still have access to different combat styles and different romances (and hopefully, still the same different sexualities... fingers crossed!) Now, not only will that all be true...

But if I choose to play a Jezebel femme-fatale who charms her way into power, and you to play a benevolent warrior who slices and dices the invading Orlesians to become a mighty general, it will matter. It will change things. Ferelden will be a different place due to Hawke's actions... not only will we affect the lives of our companions, but every man and woman. If I sound overdramatic? It's because this is. It's epic on a whole new scale.

TL;DR: This is something to be happy about. :)

Modifié par Hawksblud, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:10 .


#860
Jestina

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It's basically sounding like a rehash of the human origin with darkspawn playing the part of Arl Howe's soldiers and Hawke fleeing to BFE instead of being taken in by Warden's.

#861
LycaNinja

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SPOILERS!!!
Game will use imported save from Dragon Age: Origins [Print magazine] <-- Will our PCs make an appearance at all even if its a non-speaking role?

Flemeth will appear [Print magazine] <-- What happens if you killed Flemeth in DA:O?[/list]
“Dragon Age II has a framed narrative structure, which means that the exploits of Hawke occured in the past, but are being retold in the present.” [Print magazine]
"At the current point in the timeline, Hawke is already the Champion of Kirkwall" “Narrators with unique insights into the events in question tell the tale of his past adventures.” [Print magazine] <-- So this will be like Alpha Protocol where you are at the end of the game in the beginning but tell the story of what you did leading up to the events of the story being told? My explanation was confusing, but you'd understand if you beat Alpha Protocol[/list]
PC combat largely unchanged, console combat changed to better suit the controller [Print magazine] <-- THANK YOU!!! I didn't have enough macro buttons for attacks in DA:O xD[/list]

#862
Saibh

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Zeke Calder wrote...

Game will use imported save from Dragon Age: Origins [Print magazine] <-- Will our PCs make an appearance at all even if its a non-speaking role?


We have no clue, but there is speculation elsewhere on the forums.

Flemeth will appear [Print magazine] <-- What happens if you killed Flemeth in DA:O?


Well, Morrigan (and even the Codex) is pretty much telling you that she's not really dead, and that she'll come back. I'm assuming this is the case. As for how killing her/not killing her will affect the narrative...I can't imagine by a whole lot.

Jestina wrote...

It's basically sounding like a rehash of the human origin with darkspawn playing the part of Arl Howe's soldiers and Hawke fleeing to BFE instead of being taken in by Warden's.


...You think a Doomed Hometown is a rehash of anything? That's one of the oldest tropes in the book--and a particular favorite of video games. In fact, it's the #2 on the Grand List of RPG cliches.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 12:56 .


#863
SirOccam

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Zeke Calder wrote...

Flemeth will appear [Print magazine] <-- What happens if you killed Flemeth in DA:O?[/list]

You didn't kill her. Even if you did.

Seriously, though, Morrigan makes it very clear that Flemeth will be back, but you bought her time.

#864
LycaNinja

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SirOccam wrote...

Zeke Calder wrote...

Flemeth will appear [Print magazine] <-- What happens if you killed Flemeth in DA:O?[/list]

You didn't kill her. Even if you did.

Seriously, though, Morrigan makes it very clear that Flemeth will be back, but you bought her time.


Yeah I never managed to kill her so I didn't know what happens afterwards I just got to where Morrigan asked me to kill her... When I tried I got ripped to shreds...

#865
Sable Rhapsody

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Hawksblud wrote...

TL;DR: This is something to be happy about. :)


Only quoting the end, but thanks for summing up basically every reason why I'm excited for DA2 despite some reservations.  I do worry about the VA implementation, and I worry about the game length and amount of content.  But DA2 has so much freaking potential that if BioWare pulls off the changes competently (not even well, just competently), it will be epically awesome.

As for Flemeth, we'll probably see her doing her thing from DA:O--playing a highly significant role, even if she doesn't get lots of screen time.  And we might see Morrigan again too.  The list of characters who can survive DA:O and DA:A no matter what the Warden does is pitifully short.  And the most prominent characters on that list are the two Witches of the Wilds.  (Sorry, Bannhammer.  I love you, but Flemeth is just cooler)  Coincidence?  I think not.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:08 .


#866
RetryAgain

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mllrthyme wrote...

I think it will be an interesting story. You know Hawke's character has potential since sexy-Flemeth has an interest in him/her. One of my few concerns about DA2, however, is the length. I thought DA:O was a good length and would like to have something similar to that in the sequel, or even longer is okay too, considering it does span 10 years.


There are going to be no origins in this game. What does that mean? Less replayability? No. It means that the Dragon Age team can work harder on story and guess what? Length. More quests = more choices. More choices = more consequences. More consequences = more replayability.

I am excited about only being human because they get to focus more on the whole experience, rather than 6 or more different mini-experiences that you may not even do. I would rather have differences spread throughout the game than shoved into the beginning. Personally, I would rather have my choices add up to a totally different ending than start out different every time and end up at the same place anyway.

P.S: I also wanted to take off Duncan's head off when he told me I had to leave my family behind to die, but I know and accept that that is just not possible.

#867
RetryAgain

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SirOccam wrote...

Zeke Calder wrote...

Flemeth will appear [Print magazine] <-- What happens if you killed Flemeth in DA:O?[/list]

You didn't kill her. Even if you did.

Seriously, though, Morrigan makes it very clear that Flemeth will be back, but you bought her time.


You have not killed Flemeth yet. Keep in mind, when the darkspawn have ravaged Lothering you have not even been told about Flemeth's plan yet, much less have killed her. She is alive to show up at Lothering. She lives within a stone's throw remember?

#868
Patrickblah

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these are the only parts of it i dislike "Hawke is human, Hawke will be voiced, Mass Effect-style dialogue wheel with paraphrased lines and symbols denoting tone" the human one i guess i can live with but i dislike how it is going to be voiced i understand it allows for more dynamic and better looking conversations but i personally prefer the dao system because some of them were hilarious and also opened new possibilities also i do not like the dialog wheel because it typically limits ur options and sometimes when the ur character speaks it doesn't really seem like the option u chose

#869
Morroian

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Jestina wrote...



It's basically sounding like a rehash of the human origin with darkspawn playing the part of Arl Howe's soldiers and Hawke fleeing to BFE instead of being taken in by Warden's.




Only not. The 2 posts above yours did a really good job of articulating what the game sounds like it will be about and it is very different to DAO.

#870
wbrown2

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SirOccam wrote...

Seriously, though, Morrigan makes it very clear that Flemeth will be back, but you bought her time.



But how much time has pasted DA:O to DA2?  I got the idea that I would be considerable time till Flemeth came back much more that 2-3 years.  And if you consider that Morrigan was gonna raise a godchild then would Morrigan really risk letting that power fall into Flemeth's hands?  How is Morrigan gonna find time to kill her mother when she is a full time mom.  Maybe I'm reading to much into it but i was thinking that you had bought her around 10 years. 

Modifié par wbrown2, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:00 .


#871
tishyw

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Do we know anything else about the conversation system except that it's going to be similar to the conversation wheel from ME2?

Are we still going to be able to chat with our companions as we did in Origins, or is it going to be the cut back to hardly anything as it was Awakenings?

#872
Dwarf-Thane

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sikkwolf1 wrote...

 I'm steadfastly becoming underwhelmed with Biowares work. ME2 was subpar to ME1 and has been followed up with some very weak DLC. DAO was really good for it feeling really unpolished, but it too, has been supplemented with some seriously shabby DLC and one very lackluster "expansion" that was worthless... and a situation where the choices you made in DAO had no bearing on the canon of (Alister dead, and you took the throne... yet beginning of the game you're approached by Alister who is the King).

And what is the deal with suddenly removing other races from the situation? I would expect more races, and more gear, and better customization in a sequel... BUT, as the reality we were all treated to in ME2 goes... Bioware doesn't see things the same way.


There are two common ways to do things when you have limited time and resources.  We have seen both of them over and over in the gaming industry. 

1.)  You can make a delicious moist cake that has no icing or a very plain icing on it.  A diamond in the rough, one might call it.
2.)  You can walk behind a dog and collect a turd and cover it with tons of "awesome sauce" to make it seem attractive until you actually bite into it.  Something frilly with lots of new and/or interesting things heaped on top of a game that has few actual merits aside from said frills.

Apparently BioWare has decided that number 2 will sell more boxes this time around even though #1 did really well last time.

#873
DarthValo81

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tishyw wrote...

Do we know anything else about the conversation system except that it's going to be similar to the conversation wheel from ME2?
Are we still going to be able to chat with our companions as we did in Origins, or is it going to be the cut back to hardly anything as it was Awakenings?


Word is it is going to be a mix between DA:O and DA:A.  It could work but I will be disappointed if I can't strike up dialogue with my party outside of camp like Awakenings or ME2.  I like the idea of the contextual dialogue out in the world as in DA:A but it needs to be much more in depth.  The reason for this claim(if I recall) is that a lot of people didn't like to go around the camp and talk to everyone.  You didn't have to.  It was a choice.  I want to keep that choice.

The convo wheel is good in ME2 but I did not like hearing that in DA2 it will be made with icons representing your tone making it so you don't even need to read your choice not that it matters because what your PC will say won't be necessarily what you think they will say.  I hope they can find a happy medium.

#874
da_showstoppa

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SirJoeofthePub wrote...

I’m rather disappointed with the whole setting myself. I’m not interested really in playing DA:O just from a different perspective, I did that six times already, lol.


Mike Laidlaw from the latest podcast said, "What we wanted to do is kind of look at a new angle for the
world, with new stories, and what can we do to tell a story not just of
Bob, but of the Age that Bob lives in"

According to this, it will be telling the Age, "as a world," from a different perespective (not just the DA:O part, even though a small area of this may overlap).

#875
SirOccam

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wbrown2 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Seriously, though, Morrigan makes it very clear that Flemeth will be back, but you bought her time.



But how much time has pasted DA:O to DA2?  I got the idea that I would be considerable time till Flemeth came back much more that 2-3 years.  And if you consider that Morrigan was gonna raise a godchild then would Morrigan really risk letting that power fall into Flemeth's hands?  How is Morrigan gonna find time to kill her mother when she is a full time mom.  Maybe I'm reading to much into it but i was thinking that you had bought her around 10 years. 

Well we don't really know much about Flemeth's appearance in DA2. Consensus seems to be that Hawke's first meeting with her will be just outside Lothering, which means there's a very good chance that it'll be BEFORE she is killed (if she is killed at all). Apart from that, we really have no idea how her "death" will be handled. For all we know, we may ONLY see her before she is "killed."