4085 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Valandil]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm in agreement with Saibh here.

We don't want DA to turn into something akin to AOC where everyone runs around without their tops on and makes crude jokes all day long. I trust the DA writers on writing things tastefully though, as they already have proven. Just because a game has an M rating doesn't mean it has to embrace every aspect of what it means to have that rating.

I'm of the opinion that nudity has more impact when it is done at the right moments, sort of like crude or foul language. If we see it all the time, we'll just become desynthesised to it and it will lose its allure. It was a bit strange in a few spots in Origins to suddenly see your character "naked" (and wearing the ugly underwear if you weren't using a mod) but it usually fit more or less with the scene that was being depicted. I'm fine with it being used sparingly like that.

And anyway, aren't there lots of mods for people who want more? I know, we're not getting a new toolkit but the devs have hinted at an update to the Origins toolkit at some point in the future.

I think that y'all got me wrong.
I didn't say I want to have naked characters running around the entire game. Yes, I agree that when things are done tastefully, it's better.
I certainly agree that nudity has more impact in the right moments, instead of that ridiculous baby-diaper.
What I was sayin' is that nudity is not the same as pornography, and I wasn't pointing anyone when I said that we are a hypocrital society. Not all are the same, that's for sure.

[Leonia]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'm in agreement with Saibh here.

We don't want DA to turn into something akin to AOC where everyone runs around without their tops on and makes crude jokes all day long. I trust the DA writers on writing things tastefully though, as they already have proven. Just because a game has an M rating doesn't mean it has to embrace every aspect of what it means to have that rating.

I'm of the opinion that nudity has more impact when it is done at the right moments, sort of like crude or foul language. If we see it all the time, we'll just become desynthesised to it and it will lose its allure. It was a bit strange in a few spots in Origins to suddenly see your character "naked" (and wearing the ugly underwear if you weren't using a mod) but it usually fit more or less with the scene that was being depicted. I'm fine with it being used sparingly like that.

And anyway, aren't there lots of mods for people who want more? I know, we're not getting a new toolkit but the devs have hinted at an update to the Origins toolkit at some point in the future.

I think that y'all got me wrong.
I didn't say I want to have naked characters running around the entire game. Yes, I agree that when things are done tastefully, it's better.
I certainly agree that nudity has more impact in the right moments, instead of that ridiculous baby-diaper.
What I was sayin' is that nudity is not the same as pornography, and I wasn't pointing anyone when I said that we are a hypocrital society. Not all are the same, that's for sure.

I'm sure everyone has a different opinion of what qualifiies as pornography and what doesn't. Regardless of what you want to call it, too much nudity could be a bad thing. And there I think we can agree. My comments weren't really targetting your post though, it was just a general opinion on the treatment of nudity in the game.

Modifié par leonia42, 30 août 2010 - 05:24 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Your logic fails because your post fails to question my logic in spite of that clearly being its intent; red herring fallacy if you will. Just because those kids have their own free will, it doesn't take away from the fact that our society boasts in having standards which it does not uphold. Nudity is considered such a terrible thing in spite of the fact that a vast number of people have easy access to it and use it to indulge in their pleasures on a regular basis. Hardly any parents actually care whether or not their children play games that are clearly given the M rating seeing as how they buy these children these games in the first place. 

BioWare doesn't have to give you nudity just because society has hypocritical morals.

[Quercus]

People, Bioware will not put nudity in DA2 because they are still afraid of moms after the ME romance scenes havoc.
Romance scenes will be done in underwear most likely, and they probably avoid all logical nude scenes.

If you want to play a RPG focusing on mature content, you should play The Witcher 2.
And they will use it logically, here take a look at this scene (NSFW):

Also, did you notice the sword has a scabbard, and that the scabbard is bound on the character with belts? So no floating weapons on the back or hips in this game.
I really appreciate this small detail in The Witcher 2 as much as the mature content.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 30 août 2010 - 12:46 .

[BP20125810]

Shiroukai wrote...

People, Bioware will not put nudity in DA2 because they are still afraid of moms after the ME romance scenes havoc.
Romance scenes will be done in underwear most likely, and they probably avoid all logical nude scenes.

If you want to play a RPG focusing on mature content, you should play The Witcher 2.
And they will use it logically, here take a look at this scene (NSFW):

Also, did you notice the sword has a scabbard, and that the scabbard is bound on the character with belts? So no floating weapons on the back or hips in this game.
I really appreciate this small detail in The Witcher 2 as much as the mature content.

Combat was weird though.  Finished or not.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Your logic fails because your post fails to question my logic in spite of that clearly being its intent; red herring fallacy if you will. Just because those kids have their own free will, it doesn't take away from the fact that our society boasts in having standards which it does not uphold. Nudity is considered such a terrible thing in spite of the fact that a vast number of people have easy access to it and use it to indulge in their pleasures on a regular basis. Hardly any parents actually care whether or not their children play games that are clearly given the M rating seeing as how they buy these children these games in the first place. 

BioWare doesn't have to give you nudity just because society has hypocritical morals.

I understand that perfectly. I was making a point about the standards in our society (hence being the reason Bioware can't include nudity, no matter how tasteful).

[Maestro120]

Shiroukai wrote...

People, Bioware will not put nudity in DA2 because they are still afraid of moms after the ME romance scenes havoc.
Romance scenes will be done in underwear most likely, and they probably avoid all logical nude scenes.

If you want to play a RPG focusing on mature content, you should play The Witcher 2.
And they will use it logically, here take a look at this scene (NSFW):

Also, did you notice the sword has a scabbard, and that the scabbard is bound on the character with belts? So no floating weapons on the back or hips in this game.
I really appreciate this small detail in The Witcher 2 as much as the mature content.

LOL... you know I never expected to come to a Bioware forum and actually be tempted by posts to play the Witcher game but I've heard so many glowing reviews (again, on these forums... no less) that I actually went and hunted down the original Witcher game just so I can see what the fuss was about.

Playing it so far (albeit I'm still in chapter #1), I'm having a blast but still don't think it stacks up well against DAO (particularly the voice acting) but then its at least a couple years older than DAO.

But looking at the game play videos for Witcher #2, it seems they have improved dramatically in all things they were falling behind DAO in (game play graphics and combat is much improved and the voice acting in the video above is outstanding).  DA #2 is going to have its work cut out for it if it wants to be RPG of the year again.

Modifié par Maestro120, 30 août 2010 - 03:38 .

[SirOccam]

Zevais wrote...

Why does this thread keep saying updated when there hasn't been any real update? Pretending to update by removing a "NEW" tag is BS in my opinion. Don't change the title until something is really added to the content please. Too bad there isn't an RSS that lets us know when this REALLY updates; that is not the thread author's fault... I am just getting sick of seeing the title say a new update when there really isn't one.

I didn't remove any "new" tags, and I have no desire nor reason to "pretend" to update. If there is nothing to update then there is nothing to update. Otherwise, I guess I'll just have to use my best judgement to determine what is update-worthy (in this case, replacing images with higher-res versions). If you disagree, then I can only offer my humblest of apologies, and ask that you can somehow find it in your heart to forgive me.

[stonemyst]

any idea why only human, is it cause of the makers curse?

[SirOccam]

I'm guessing there's a storyline reason. Either involving Bethany or perhaps Hawke's father will be revealed. In either case, the simple fact that Hawke has a family means that family needs a race.

[ankuu]

In my opinion, it's good to have 1 race for once...especially when you have the family thing going on. I mean, in how many games you can actually develop a relationship with your sister, with your mom? And being a only race, the background is more defined.

[Rake21]

stonemyst wrote...

any idea why only human, is it cause of the makers curse?

It could also be that, in Thedas, being an elf and not being a Grey Warden doesn't really garner any respect from the majority of the people in the world.

Modifié par Rake21, 30 août 2010 - 05:21 .

[Saibh]

Shiroukai wrote...

People, Bioware will not put nudity in DA2 because they are still afraid of moms after the ME romance scenes havoc.
Romance scenes will be done in underwear most likely, and they probably avoid all logical nude scenes.

If you want to play a RPG focusing on mature content, you should play The Witcher 2.
And they will use it logically, here take a look at this scene (NSFW):

Also, did you notice the sword has a scabbard, and that the scabbard is bound on the character with belts? So no floating weapons on the back or hips in this game.
I really appreciate this small detail in The Witcher 2 as much as the mature content.

I love how people go on and on about complaining Hawke being a semi preset character, and how that means its not a true RPG, but Geralt is more predefined then Shepard ever was. I'm not saying that's what you are like, but I always find it ironic.

In any case, I already brought up that nudity =/= maturity. The game is already rated M and there are sex scenes, so not a whole lot of fiddling around is going to change the fact moms don't want their kids playing this game. As with all objectionable/controversial material, when handled maturely, I see no problem with it. If there is no way to handle it maturely, then it doesn't deserve to be there.

That's not a small detail added for realism's sake--that is there for male pleasure. Notice how attractive that woman is? She couldn't have small breasts, or been boney or whatever. How, even though her back was being whipped, she faces you so you get a clear vantage? Once chained, why would they turn her around? Her back would burn just as easily--more painfully, probably, as her front, and you risk her fighting back by unchaining her. That same scene could have been exactly the same with her in her underwear, or a bra, and you still would have gotten the exact same connotations without the nudity. I'm not saying they should remove it, I'm just saying that boobs don't automatically make that scene superior.

Also, the thing about having swords with scabbards is that you must make an individual scabbard for every sword you can possible have, every weapon you can holster, and then require individual animations for all of them for drawing and sheathing. Watching him draw it, and I say they did a terrible job making it come out realistically. It just sort of blinks into his hands.

[Rake21]

Saibh wrote...


I love how people go on and on about complaining Hawke being a semi preset character, and how that means its not a true RPG, but Geralt is more predefined then Shepard ever was. I'm not saying that's what you are like, but I always find it ironic.

In any case, I already brought up that nudity =/= maturity. The game is already rated M and there are sex scenes, so not a whole lot of fiddling around is going to change the fact moms don't want their kids playing this game. As with all objectionable/controversial material, when handled maturely, I see no problem with it. If there is no way to handle it maturely, then it doesn't deserve to be there.

That's not a small detail added for realism's sake--that is there for male pleasure. Notice how attractive that woman is? She couldn't have small breasts, or been boney or whatever. How, even though her back was being whipped, she faces you so you get a clear vantage? Once chained, why would they turn her around? Her back would burn just as easily--more painfully, probably, as her front, and you risk her fighting back by unchaining her. That same scene could have been exactly the same with her in her underwear, or a bra, and you still would have gotten the exact same connotations without the nudity. I'm not saying they should remove it, I'm just saying that boobs don't automatically make that scene superior.

Also, the thing about having swords with scabbards is that you must make an individual scabbard for every sword you can possible have, every weapon you can holster, and then require individual animations for all of them for drawing and sheathing. Watching him draw it, and I say they did a terrible job making it come out realistically. It just sort of blinks into his hands.

Heh.  Witcher as a mature game.  Cause when I think mature, collecting cards of naked women comes to mind.

[Datenshi92]

Rake21 wrote...

stonemyst wrote...

any idea why only human, is it cause of the makers curse?

It could also be that, in Thedas, being an elf and not being a Grey Warden doesn't really garner any respect from the majority of the people in the world.

Not only that, why would Dwarves and Elves be interested in conquering some lands?
That would cause a major war betwen them and the humans.
Elves just want to be treated right and I belive they are pretty sick of society, if I was one of them I would just move to the Dalish and stay there.
A Dwarf could do it, but with what resources? By the time he built half the castle, he is no longer welcome by his brethren down in Orzammar, therefore he would need to have the guts to rule people, handle resources, justice and what not... and once again, deal with humans and all kinds of threats.
Not to mention that each race has diferents types of rules and rituals.
Elves like adventure, something that doesn't bond them to more than they own or feel responsible.
Dwarves are allright, but they are a bit arrogant and withdrawn when powers reach their heads, they're standards would waste the lower humans to bones... I mean, when it comes to work, they barely have any limits.

Not that it would't happen, I just think it seems illogial at this time to indulge in something like that.

Modifié par Datenshi92, 30 août 2010 - 05:48 .

[Saibh]

Rake21 wrote...
Heh.  Witcher as a mature game.  Cause when I think mature, collecting cards of naked women comes to mind.

Gotta catch 'em all!

[Bryy_Miller]

I'm sure there are people that do that. At my college, there was one person who made it their goal (and succeeded) to bed everyone on their floor.

[HarryThePlotter]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I'm sure there are people that do that. At my college, there was one person who made it their goal (and succeeded) to bed everyone on their floor.

And would you call this anecdotal evidence mature?

[Nerevar-as]

Saibh wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

People, Bioware will not put nudity in DA2 because they are still afraid of moms after the ME romance scenes havoc.
Romance scenes will be done in underwear most likely, and they probably avoid all logical nude scenes.

If you want to play a RPG focusing on mature content, you should play The Witcher 2.
And they will use it logically, here take a look at this scene (NSFW):

Also, did you notice the sword has a scabbard, and that the scabbard is bound on the character with belts? So no floating weapons on the back or hips in this game.
I really appreciate this small detail in The Witcher 2 as much as the mature content.

I love how people go on and on about complaining Hawke being a semi preset character, and how that means its not a true RPG, but Geralt is more predefined then Shepard ever was. I'm not saying that's what you are like, but I always find it ironic.

In any case, I already brought up that nudity =/= maturity. The game is already rated M and there are sex scenes, so not a whole lot of fiddling around is going to change the fact moms don't want their kids playing this game. As with all objectionable/controversial material, when handled maturely, I see no problem with it. If there is no way to handle it maturely, then it doesn't deserve to be there.

That's not a small detail added for realism's sake--that is there for male pleasure. Notice how attractive that woman is? She couldn't have small breasts, or been boney or whatever. How, even though her back was being whipped, she faces you so you get a clear vantage? Once chained, why would they turn her around? Her back would burn just as easily--more painfully, probably, as her front, and you risk her fighting back by unchaining her. That same scene could have been exactly the same with her in her underwear, or a bra, and you still would have gotten the exact same connotations without the nudity. I'm not saying they should remove it, I'm just saying that boobs don't automatically make that scene superior.

Also, the thing about having swords with scabbards is that you must make an individual scabbard for every sword you can possible have, every weapon you can holster, and then require individual animations for all of them for drawing and sheathing. Watching him draw it, and I say they did a terrible job making it come out realistically. It just sort of blinks into his hands.

As a matter ot fact, it wouldn´t make sense. Really unlikely torturers would care about her modesty. Rather the opposite, nudity tends to make people feel more hopeless. I would have expected no clothing at all. Leliana in full armor after a week was what didn´t make sense (although I´m quite thankful for it). And really, I don´t see that the woman is hot, I see she was being tortured. Surprised in that situation people protest saying it´s fanservice. For me is the opposite. BW still wins with Awakening Broodmother in this regard, though.

Witcher world is a very nasty ones. Their elves would probably sign to go to Thedas. And as of this game, it has literally no future. Geralt supposed (or not) death was trying to prevent a progromo. And so on.

[Saibh]

Nerevar-as wrote...

As a matter ot fact, it wouldn´t make sense. Really unlikely torturers would care about her modesty. Rather the opposite, nudity tends to make people feel more hopeless. I would have expected no clothing at all. Leliana in full armor after a week was what didn´t make sense (although I´m quite thankful for it). And really, I don´t see that the woman is hot, I see she was being tortured. Surprised in that situation people protest saying it´s fanservice. For me is the opposite. BW still wins with Awakening Broodmother in this regard, though.

Witcher world is a very nasty ones. Their elves would probably sign to go to Thedas. And as of this game, it has literally no future. Geralt supposed (or not) death was trying to prevent a progromo. And so on.

Her in her undergarments would be rather the same effect, and she'd been facing the wall up until Geralt showed up. She could have easily been naked and turned around, wouldn't you say? They were showing her breasts so you could see them. Did she have to be attractive? Absolutely not. 

[DMZ_Destroyer]

Looks excellent the screenshots look amazing cant wait to play this game in 1080p on my comp

[Quercus]

Saibh wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

As a matter ot fact, it wouldn´t make sense. Really unlikely torturers would care about her modesty. Rather the opposite, nudity tends to make people feel more hopeless. I would have expected no clothing at all. Leliana in full armor after a week was what didn´t make sense (although I´m quite thankful for it). And really, I don´t see that the woman is hot, I see she was being tortured. Surprised in that situation people protest saying it´s fanservice. For me is the opposite. BW still wins with Awakening Broodmother in this regard, though.

Witcher world is a very nasty ones. Their elves would probably sign to go to Thedas. And as of this game, it has literally no future. Geralt supposed (or not) death was trying to prevent a progromo. And so on.

Her in her undergarments would be rather the same effect, and she'd been facing the wall up until Geralt showed up. She could have easily been naked and turned around, wouldn't you say? They were showing her breasts so you could see them. Did she have to be attractive? Absolutely not. 

It wouln't have the same effect, cause it contradict with logic, as much as the romantic scenes in DAO where they wear undergarments.
I dunno if you have trouble with placing yourself in the minds of others, or if you are simply holding on to the 'say no to nudity' chant without letting it go no matter what.
But trust me that when I say tortures who are working in a dungeon, where there arn't many women around, don't tend to turn a female around so they can see her backspine instead of here breasts.
They have a screw lose and they want to see people suffer, thinking about her modisty is ilogic.
So no, they were showing her breasts because that is what these kinds of people do when you're a woman and in a dungeon.
Did she have to be atractive? no, but why shouldn't she be? If I want to create a female woman, be that on a piece of paper or in a game world, I'de rather make something good to look at then something bad (unless the story asks for a broodmother).

You can say what you want, but nudity done right = maturity.

P.S. I've got nothing against pre-set characters, I just dislike the ME dialogue wheel.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 30 août 2010 - 09:29 .

[Datenshi92]

I just noticed something in the pics...



The way Flemeth's cloak move in the wind... does it means that BW added Rag-doll cloth physics to the game?

That would be awsome! I hated the way how the cloths looked attached to our character... no fluid movemet.

[Datenshi92]

Shiroukai wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

As a matter ot fact, it wouldn´t make sense. Really unlikely torturers would care about her modesty. Rather the opposite, nudity tends to make people feel more hopeless. I would have expected no clothing at all. Leliana in full armor after a week was what didn´t make sense (although I´m quite thankful for it). And really, I don´t see that the woman is hot, I see she was being tortured. Surprised in that situation people protest saying it´s fanservice. For me is the opposite. BW still wins with Awakening Broodmother in this regard, though.

Witcher world is a very nasty ones. Their elves would probably sign to go to Thedas. And as of this game, it has literally no future. Geralt supposed (or not) death was trying to prevent a progromo. And so on.

Her in her undergarments would be rather the same effect, and she'd been facing the wall up until Geralt showed up. She could have easily been naked and turned around, wouldn't you say? They were showing her breasts so you could see them. Did she have to be attractive? Absolutely not. 

It wouln't have the same effect, cause it contradict with logic, as much as the romantic scenes in DAO where they wear undergarments.
I dunno if you have trouble with placing yourself in the minds of others, or if you are simply holding on to the 'say no to nudity' chant without letting it go no matter what.
But trust me that when I say tortures who are working in a dungeon, where there arn't many women around, don't tend to turn a female around so they can see her backspine instead of here breasts.
They have a screw lose and they want to see people suffer, thinking about her modisty is ilogic.
So no, they were showing her breasts because that is what these kinds of people do when you're a woman and in a dungeon.
Did she have to be atractive? no, but why shouldn't she be? If I want to create a female woman, be that on a piece of paper or in a game world, I'de rather make something good to look at then something bad (unless the story asks for a broodmother).

P.S. I've got nothing against pre-set characters, I just dislike the ME dialogue wheel.

I agree with Shiroukai. The creators make the game based in both their likes and their fans in general, they can't please everyone who either prefers bigger boobs or no nudity at all.
In almost every RPG or at least those that include sex scenes or tease, have nudity, movies have nudity, in real life when we are with out love partner, we can see them naked.
What's so wrong about it? And please don't come with "everyone is doing it and they are copying it too", we learn and live immitating others.
How we learn to speak? By immitating our parents. How we learn to walk? Doing the same thing. How we learn any other stuff? Unless you have a really good imagination, you must get your ideas based on something, even if something tottally diferent.
Its part of us, so don't bother to much with it. This game is rated M, if some people can't handle parts of the "adult world", they might as well not even bother about it and move on to something they prefer.

[Saibh]

Shiroukai wrote...

It
wouln't have the same effect, cause it contradict with logic, as much
as the romantic scenes in DAO where they wear undergarments.
I dunno
if you have trouble with placing yourself in the minds of others, or if
you are simply holding on to the 'say no to nudity' chant without
letting it go no matter what.
But trust me that when I say tortures
who are working in a dungeon, where there arn't many women around, don't
tend to turn a female around so they can see her backspine instead of
here breasts.
They have a screw lose and they want to see people suffer, thinking about her modisty is ilogic.
So no, they were showing her breasts because that is what these kinds of people do when you're a woman and in a dungeon.
Did
she have to be atractive? no, but why shouldn't she be? If I want to
create a female woman, be that on a piece of paper or in a game world,
I'de rather make something good to look at then something bad (unless
the story asks for a broodmother).

You can say what you want, but nudity done right = maturity.

P.S. I've got nothing against pre-set characters, I just dislike the ME dialogue wheel.

She has whip marks on her back, so clearly they did face her towards the wall. Wouldn't her facing the wall when Geralt came in, seeing a naked back, done the exact same thing? What's the difference? Oh yeah. Fanservice.

As I said, boobs in that scene do not inherently make it superior for having seen them.

Datenshi92 wrote...

I agree with Shiroukai. The creators make the game based in both their likes and their fans in general, they can't please everyone who either prefers bigger boobs or no nudity at all.
In almost every RPG or at least those that include sex scenes or tease, have nudity, movies have nudity, in real life when we are with out love partner, we can see them naked.
What's so wrong about it? And please don't come with "everyone is doing it and they are copying it too", we learn and live immitating others.
How we learn to speak? By immitating our parents. How we learn to walk? Doing the same thing. How we learn any other stuff? Unless you have a really good imagination, you must get your ideas based on something, even if something tottally diferent.
Its part of us, so don't bother to much with it. This game is rated M, if some people can't handle parts of the "adult world", they might as well not even bother about it and move on to something they prefer.

And there we go, the go-to cry of guys wanting to see boobs in their game everywhere.  Tell me, exactly how would ME1's love scenes have benefited from actually getting a glimpse of Ashley's breasts? They wouldn't have. The only reason to include them is fanservice.

Again, I am not against nudity, but too often I see men asking for it for the most ridiculous, pseudo-sociological reasons they can think of.

You know how I learned to deal with my periods? By being clinically informed how to do so, asking careful questions when I felt it was appropriate, and learning on my own. Do I really need to see a friend show me exactly freaking how? No. Nor would I have wanted them to. Is menstruation natural, and something I shouldn't be embarrassed about? Of course. But seeing it graphically represented in video games simply because it's natural is unnecessary.

Sorry for that bit of gore, but I'm trying to relate it in better terms.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 août 2010 - 10:10 .