4085 réponses à ce sujet

[Quercus]

Saibh wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

It
wouln't have the same effect, cause it contradict with logic, as much
as the romantic scenes in DAO where they wear undergarments.
I dunno
if you have trouble with placing yourself in the minds of others, or if
you are simply holding on to the 'say no to nudity' chant without
letting it go no matter what.
But trust me that when I say tortures
who are working in a dungeon, where there arn't many women around, don't
tend to turn a female around so they can see her backspine instead of
here breasts.
They have a screw lose and they want to see people suffer, thinking about her modisty is ilogic.
So no, they were showing her breasts because that is what these kinds of people do when you're a woman and in a dungeon.
Did
she have to be atractive? no, but why shouldn't she be? If I want to
create a female woman, be that on a piece of paper or in a game world,
I'de rather make something good to look at then something bad (unless
the story asks for a broodmother).

You can say what you want, but nudity done right = maturity.

P.S. I've got nothing against pre-set characters, I just dislike the ME dialogue wheel.

She has whip marks on her back, so clearly they did face her towards the wall. Wouldn't her facing the wall when Geralt came in, seeing a naked back, done the exact same thing? What's the difference? Oh yeah. Fanservice.

As I said, boobs in that scene do not inherently make it superior for having seen them.

Didn't noticed the whip marks, and I agree that a naked back would have done the same thing. What's the difference? A simple time case, a scene that took place earlier. The devs just chose to use a later scene. And that still doesn't clarivies your ilogic view on her not being topless or that she must have her back turned. The reason for that I explained in my post above.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 30 août 2010 - 10:30 .

[Saibh]

Shiroukai wrote...

Didn't noticed the whip marks, and I agree that a naked back would have done the same thing. What's the difference? A simple time case, a scene that took place earlier. The devs just chose to use a later scene. And that still doesn't clarivies your ilogic view on her not being topless or that she must have her back turned. The reason for that I explained in my post above.

The point being seeing her breasts is unnecessary, and the only reason you do see them is fanservice.

[Nerevar-as]

There´s an image with a woman with a whipped back. Don´t know if ot´s her, but apparently you can choose not to intervene and let them torture her.



I don´t care about nudity or not. I care that it is there if it is makes far more sense than not. By the same token I can´t stand the "standard" female armor in fantasy. Even DA went that way with the light models.

[Lord_Valandil]

Nerevar-as wrote...
I don´t care about nudity or not. I care that it is there if it is makes far more sense than not. By the same token I can´t stand the "standard" female armor in fantasy. Even DA went that way with the light models.

This. The romance scenes in DA don't make any sense with that magical bras and giant diapers.
I mean...a lot of people have said it before me, but the romance in the first Mass Effect didn't show anything and was a thousand times better.
But then again, EA and Bioware prefer to not mess with the media.

I still can't figure out why violence is acceptable, even if it's extreme, and sex/nudity is seen as the work of the devil.

[Quercus]

Saibh wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Didn't noticed the whip marks, and I agree that a naked back would have done the same thing. What's the difference? A simple time case, a scene that took place earlier. The devs just chose to use a later scene. And that still doesn't clarivies your ilogic view on her not being topless or that she must have her back turned. The reason for that I explained in my post above.

The point being seeing her breasts is unnecessary, and the only reason you do see them is fanservice.

The point being seeing her breasts is necesseray because it makes sence, and the reason why they pick this particulair scene is fanservice.

I'm just trying to point out that this is mature content done right.

[Quercus]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I still can't figure out why violence is acceptable, even if it's extreme, and sex/nudity is seen as the work of the devil.

And the funny thing is that iRL it's vice-versa where sexuality is more acceptible and violence is bad.

[Lord_Valandil]

Shiroukai wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I still can't figure out why violence is acceptable, even if it's extreme, and sex/nudity is seen as the work of the devil.

And the funny thing is that iRL it's vice-versa where sexuality is more acceptible and violence is bad.

Yes, exactly, you got my point.
It's just plain ridiculous. I mean, I'm not against violence in videogames, because it makes them realistic, I don't expect to see candy or pink unicorns during a sword fight, but wounds and blood.
Yet, when it comes to sexuality, many people turn into a fanatic priest and claim that it's wrong, bad, pervert, sick, filthy, blahblahblah...

[Datenshi92]

Saibh wrote...

Datenshi92 wrote...

I agree with Shiroukai. The creators make the game based in both their likes and their fans in general, they can't please everyone who either prefers bigger boobs or no nudity at all.
In almost every RPG or at least those that include sex scenes or tease, have nudity, movies have nudity, in real life when we are with out love partner, we can see them naked.
What's so wrong about it? And please don't come with "everyone is doing it and they are copying it too", we learn and live immitating others.
How we learn to speak? By immitating our parents. How we learn to walk? Doing the same thing. How we learn any other stuff? Unless you have a really good imagination, you must get your ideas based on something, even if something tottally diferent.
Its part of us, so don't bother to much with it. This game is rated M, if some people can't handle parts of the "adult world", they might as well not even bother about it and move on to something they prefer.

And there we go, the go-to cry of guys wanting to see boobs in their game everywhere.  Tell me, exactly how would ME1's love scenes have benefited from actually getting a glimpse of Ashley's breasts? They wouldn't have. The only reason to include them is fanservice.

Again, I am not against nudity, but too often I see men asking for it for the most ridiculous, pseudo-sociological reasons they can think of.

You know how I learned to deal with my periods? By being clinically informed how to do so, asking careful questions when I felt it was appropriate, and learning on my own. Do I really need to see a friend show me exactly freaking how? No. Nor would I have wanted them to. Is menstruation natural, and something I shouldn't be embarrassed about? Of course. But seeing it graphically represented in video games simply because it's natural is unnecessary.

Sorry for that bit of gore, but I'm trying to relate it in better terms.

Ofc everything has limits, but these games don't go that far, they just get naked, have sex and end of the deal, not that I'm agains't it, I actually prefer it that way(with limits). I also don't agree with everything that guys ask, and belive me, some of them are what I call real idiots. But truth is that if we had the chance we would also do the same thing.
You might not like it but things are getting more realistic and detailed every time I play a diferent game. I still remember how simple and fun it was when I played the first Doom back then and how complex games are now.
People want realistic things, the closer to reality yet nothing of it.
What videogames creators are doing is trying to create an diferent unniverse where people feel as their character, where they see and understand as their character do, if it takes them to add the most bizarre things to do it, they will.
Games already represent almost all human flaws: War, destruction, death, fear, conquer, opression and violence.
So far these are the worst thing that humanity can do, yet every gamer loves it, no matter how twisted it is.
If we enjoy these things, sex might as well be one of them.
I speak for myself, nudity doesn't bother me.
You have your opinion and I respect that, but its really nothing we can do. They could even make it a total "sin" free game, I would't really care, it would just get a bit more boring.

Btw, I'm a girl.


PS: There is nothing wrong with fan-service. I know it can be annoying once in a while but people like things to ocupy their minds when they go write their own fan fictions, plus it shows that the devs do care about their fans.
Again, everything should have limits... DA ins't an porn game like I said before.

Modifié par Datenshi92, 31 août 2010 - 12:06 .

[Merlin Dawnweaver]

 

Melee characters can participate in combinations like mages could in Origins. [GameInformer article]
Mages now have "finishing moves" like melee characters did in Origins. [GameInformer article]

Bioware, on behalf of munchkins everywhere, I thank you.
Now only if archers got some love 

Modifié par Merlin Dawnweaver, 31 août 2010 - 03:08 .

[Tempest]

Topic a little off recently by a few pages.....



I will say that the dialogue wheel can be done right if it doesn't follow the same path of other RPG's where a moral bar is present. That way the NPC's judge you by your actions, not your alignment. How the **** are people of Rivet City able to judge me (good or evil) for what I may (not) of done at Megaton or at Big Town considering there are really no working telephone or messengers? You know how broken a morality bar is when the DJ says how much of a scum of the earth I am, but praises me like a saint for disarming the bomb.



All I ask is for NO morality bar, Bioware gave none, I am VERY happy for that.

[Bryy_Miller]

Shiroukai wrote...

I'm just trying to point out that this is mature content done right.

That sentence proves you don't know what mature means.

[Quercus]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

I'm just trying to point out that this is mature content done right.

That sentence proves you don't know what mature means.

Maturity is a term used to indicate how a person acts to stuff happing to him or around him in an appropiate manner.
People are not considered psychologically mature enough to do certain things (such as consenting to sex) until they have reached a certain age AKA the reason for the ESRB with games.

No idea why you think my sentence proves me wrong, but I know what I said and I know what this game is doing right.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Saibh wrote...

She has whip marks on her back, so clearly they did face her towards the wall. Wouldn't her facing the wall when Geralt came in, seeing a naked back, done the exact same thing? What's the difference? Oh yeah. Fanservice.

It looks to me like they turned her around to work on the front. That torturer was preparing for another session.

He is right about one thing - tortures don't care abotu your modesty. In fact, attacking your modesty is probably the first step they would make. And being that such strategic places are very sensitive, they are also very suceptable to turture.

The scene works. It would have worked if she was fully naked. It would have worked if she was fulyl clothed and tied to the table.
It all depends on waht those torutures were doing and for how long.

[Kyenne]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The scene works. It would have worked if she was fully naked. It would have worked if she was fulyl clothed and tied to the table.
It all depends on waht those torutures were doing and for how long.

I think that's the point. The scene works in any of these situations, but they chose to go with the one with the visible breasts. Why? So they could include gratuitous nudity for fanservice. Of course, given the first Witcher, I wouldn't expect anything else from TW2, but let's not pretend they're doing it for artistic reasons.

edit: I'm not against nudity, if it's tasteful, and I agree that Origin's sex scenes could have been done better, with camera angles to hide things rather than the magic underwear. I'm just a bit bemused by the argument that nipples automatically make a scene superior because they're "mature".

Modifié par Kyenne, 31 août 2010 - 02:32 .

[Nerevar-as]

I just don´t get how a half naked woman being tortured is fanservice to anyone. The moment I get to that scene it´s going to rain blood. (Is that Kenshin Shiroukai?).

[Quercus]

Kyenne wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The scene works. It would have worked if she was fully naked. It would have worked if she was fulyl clothed and tied to the table.
It all depends on waht those torutures were doing and for how long.

I think that's the point. The scene works in any of these situations, but they chose to go with the one with the visible breasts. Why? So they could include gratuitous nudity for fanservice. Of course, given the first Witcher, I wouldn't expect anything else from TW2, but let's not pretend they're doing it for artistic reasons.

edit: I'm not against nudity, if it's tasteful, and I agree that Origin's sex scenes could have been done better, with camera angles to hide things rather than the magic underwear. I'm just a bit bemused by the argument that nipples automatically make a scene superior because they're "mature".

Nipples are as much 'mature' as 'blood', 'gore' and 'violence' .
The thing it self isn't mature, but the context around it is, or should be if done right. If you don't grasp the meaning you could as well be a horney teen or a whining priest.

Ofcause they could have chosen a different scene without nudity,  they could also chose to let people fight with weapons that dont cut (Like the movie for kids "Narnia" for example) and make every scene as bloodless as posible. Yet the story, atmosphere and art asks for it. They chose to put that in because it would have a better ( or more, or different) effect on people.
Just try to image this scenes with muppets, and tell me it would have the same effect.

Nerevar-as wrote...

Is that Kenshin Shiroukai?

I dunno really, he do looks a lot alike, doesn't he?

Modifié par Shiroukai, 31 août 2010 - 02:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

Shiroukai wrote...

Kyenne wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The scene works. It would have worked if she was fully naked. It would have worked if she was fulyl clothed and tied to the table.
It all depends on waht those torutures were doing and for how long.

I think that's the point. The scene works in any of these situations, but they chose to go with the one with the visible breasts. Why? So they could include gratuitous nudity for fanservice. Of course, given the first Witcher, I wouldn't expect anything else from TW2, but let's not pretend they're doing it for artistic reasons.

edit: I'm not against nudity, if it's tasteful, and I agree that Origin's sex scenes could have been done better, with camera angles to hide things rather than the magic underwear. I'm just a bit bemused by the argument that nipples automatically make a scene superior because they're "mature".

Nipples are as much 'mature' as 'blood', 'gore' and 'violence' .
The thing it self isn't mature, but if it's done right the context around it is. If you don't grasp the meaning you could as well be a horney teen or a whining priest.

Ofcause they could have chosen a different scene without nudity,  they could also chose to let people fight with weapons that dont cut (Like the movie for kids "Narnia" for example) and make every scene as bloodless as posible. Yet the story, atmosphere and art asks for it. They chose to put that in because it would have a better ( or more, or different) effect on people.
Just try to image this scenes with muppets, and tell me it would have the same effect.

Nerevar-as wrote...

Is that Kenshin Shiroukai?

I dunno really, he do looks a lot alike, doesn't he?

Isn´t that the German version?

[darkhallsredfloors]

Kyenne wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The scene works. It would have worked if she was fully naked. It would have worked if she was fulyl clothed and tied to the table.
It all depends on waht those torutures were doing and for how long.

I think that's the point. The scene works in any of these situations, but they chose to go with the one with the visible breasts. Why? So they could include gratuitous nudity for fanservice. Of course, given the first Witcher, I wouldn't expect anything else from TW2, but let's not pretend they're doing it for artistic reasons.

edit: I'm not against nudity, if it's tasteful, and I agree that Origin's sex scenes could have been done better, with camera angles to hide things rather than the magic underwear. I'm just a bit bemused by the argument that nipples automatically make a scene superior because they're "mature".

I agree mostly with this, that scene didn't need to have full frontal but because it was a woman getting tortured, it was deemed almost "necessary" to appease the predominantly male audience. Also, it's worth taking into consideration, the vast majority of game developers are male (there are obviously a few females as well), but gaming in general I think is still considered a mostly male market, and thus all those things combined lead to full frontal nudity where it may not be entirely necessary. Funny how you never see male characters with their bits out...

This goes along with the arguement in the Witch Hunt DLC thread about there only being DLC for female companions and nothing to appease those interested in the male party members.

[Bryy_Miller]

Shiroukai wrote...
 If you don't grasp the meaning you could as well be a horney teen or a whining priest.

This.
This here is another perfect example of you not grasping the idea of maturity.
Because if you did, you would find much less condescendingly generalizing ways to say things like this. 

[Quercus]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...
 If you don't grasp the meaning you could as well be a horney teen or a whining priest.

This.
This here is another perfect example of you not grasping the idea of maturity.
Because if you did, you would find much less condescendingly generalizing ways to say things like this. 

Yea, because you can read it as an insult. Yet you can only feel insulted if you don't grasp the meaning. (if you had grasp the meaning you would have seen a lady stripped from her top and getting tortured by burns any minute, if you were a horny teen you would have seen boobies, and a whining priests would have seen porn)
I could have said it with more beautifull words, yet it wont have changed the meaning behind it.
But still, by your standarts you're not even allowed to tell me I don't understand maturity, every human being insults others on occasions, and you are no different.

Now lets see if you can find other bits in my posts that would make me as someone who doesn't understand maturity, cause obviously you like to twists truths with other truths. (here's a hint, this part is actually an insult aimed at your intelect)

BTW, you you forgot to comment on me proving you wrong on your previous "you are not mature" post.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 31 août 2010 - 07:28 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Shiroukai wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...
 If you don't grasp the meaning you could as well be a horney teen or a whining priest.

This.
This here is another perfect example of you not grasping the idea of maturity.
Because if you did, you would find much less condescendingly generalizing ways to say things like this. 

Yea, because you can read it as an insult. Yet you can only feel insulted if you don't grasp the meaning. (if you had grasp the meaning you would have seen a lady stripped from her top and getting tortured by burns any minute, if you were a horny teen you would have seen boobies, and a whining priests would have seen porn)
I could have said it with more beautifull words, yet it wont have changed the meaning behind it.
But still, by your standarts you're not even allowed to tell me I don't understand maturity, every human being insults others on occasions, and you are no different.

Now lets see if you can find other bits in my posts that would make me as someone who doesn't understand maturity, cause obviously you like to twists truths with other truths. (here's a hint, this part is actually an insult aimed at your intelect)

Keep digging that hole, kid.

[Cjrdrifter]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I still can't figure out why violence is acceptable, even if it's extreme, and sex/nudity is seen as the work of the devil.

And the funny thing is that iRL it's vice-versa where sexuality is more acceptible and violence is bad.

Yes, exactly, you got my point.
It's just plain ridiculous. I mean, I'm not against violence in videogames, because it makes them realistic, I don't expect to see candy or pink unicorns during a sword fight, but wounds and blood.
Yet, when it comes to sexuality, many people turn into a fanatic priest and claim that it's wrong, bad, pervert, sick, filthy, blahblahblah...

agree and hope for a return to mass effect respect for mature sexuality in video games, sometimes less is more;)

[Lord_Valandil]

H_Itachi wrote...

oh great the boob fanatics have invaded this thread. who gives a **** if their having sex with their clothes on. No one cares. Mature content can mean many different things not necessarily nudity and sex. Plus the sex scenes are pointless in games but expressing and showing how far your relationship with a character has gone. The scene to me just shows the player that you and your characters partner are romantically involved with one another. Its not like you see vaginal penetration which would be completely necessary and wouldnt serve any purpose. Simply all you see a girl lying on top of a guy or them hugging and kissing. Not a big deal people.

A few things.
First, I'm not a boob fanatic.
Second, i give a **** if my characters are having sex with diapers, I CARE. And a lot of people care too, you don't care? Your problem man, and that's OK.
Third, they are pointless because you say so? Then why are sex scenes in the game and not a typical fade-to-black?
Aaaaand...we are not requesting penetration or a porn vid, would you mind reading?
Have a nice day, sir.

Cjrdrifter wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Shiroukai wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
I still can't figure out why violence is acceptable, even if it's extreme, and sex/nudity is seen as the work of the devil.

And the funny thing is that iRL it's vice-versa where sexuality is more acceptible and violence is bad.

Yes, exactly, you got my point.
It's
just plain ridiculous. I mean, I'm not against violence in videogames,
because it makes them realistic, I don't expect to see candy or pink
unicorns during a sword fight, but wounds and blood.
Yet, when it
comes to sexuality, many people turn into a fanatic priest and claim
that it's wrong, bad, pervert, sick, filthy, blahblahblah...

agree and hope for a return to mass effect respect for mature sexuality in video games, sometimes less is more[smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

You're absolutely right.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 31 août 2010 - 11:36 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
A few things.
First, I'm not a boob fanatic.
Second, i give a **** if my characters are having sex with diapers, I CARE. And a lot of people care too, you don't care? Your problem man, and that's OK.
Third, they are pointless because you say so? Then why are sex scenes in the game and not a typical fade-to-black?
Aaaaand...we are not requesting penetration or a porn vid, would you mind reading?
Have a nice day, sir.

And keep digging.