200 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

Azriel77 wrote...

Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about awakening is where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

That's a spirit killer.

[Lucy Glitter]

Livemmo wrote...

Im amazed they chose not to announce this at e3 instead they choose to announce it like 3 weeks later.

Maybe their concept art wasn't finished? Iunno, it is weird.

[Bryy_Miller]

Slidell505 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

disenfranchised wrote...

I think this article sums up my feelings on Dragon Age 2 announcement.

http://www.escapistm...ryone-Except-Me

Where the publishers are pushing the market, is not where I'm headed. I think there are more than a few people like me.

I feel the same.

You aren't the only one

I blame Bobby Kotick, I'm not sure how he did it but I know he did.

I hear he used his dark magicks.

[drkshine86]

Props to Vicious. Sadly the entertainment market isn't one of supply and demand. The demand for old school games like BG,BG2 and others of it's kind is certainly there but not so much as games like Mass Effect and etc. Generally if people want something it's produced in one form or another, however with games costing what they do to make it's a safer bet to make games that appeal to more people. Not such a bad thing in my eyes. If I crave BG gameplay I'll play it or another of it's sort of game. Sure the combat may be streamlined and what not but for me playing on a console I found it hard to properly line up fireballs and etc etc. I wouldn't mind a more streamlined approach to the game as long as they don't dumb down the customizable aspects of the characters performing said combat.



As long as the story, characters and world are awesome I'll be there loving every minute of the game, combat is forgettable but an epic plot with impactful dialog isn't. My most memorable moments of DA:O aren't how I beat the Archdemon or anything else for that matter, but why, for whom and what motivations etc etc.

[errant_knight]

Azriel77 wrote...

Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about awakening is where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

Yeah, I remember that from the time. It was very disturbing in that it made me think that the very people who made the game didn't understand what was so special about it. I don't know how that could happen, but....you gotta think it's a possibility.

If you can talk to people at will, you feel like your really travelling with them. if you can't, you don't. If you're imerssed in roleplay, and you want to go talk to a character about something, you do it, and you're still involved. If you can't.... suddenly you're not in the game world anymore. The dialogue system was much of the reason Origins was what it was.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 juillet 2010 - 06:01 .

[Bryy_Miller]

errant_knight wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about awakening is where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

Yeah, I remember that from the time. It was very disturbing in that it made me think that the very people who made the game didn't understand what was so special about it. I don't know how that could happen, but....you gotta think it's a possibility.

All they are doing is talking about changing the conversation system. You guys are making it sound like they are changing the entire game to be the size of an expansion.

[Vicious]

Nope, doubt it.



For those not knowing, they already said Dialogue system for DA2 will be a hybrid of Awakenings/DA1.



That is Mass Effect 1's system with campfire talk and 'clickies.' you get both.

[hexaligned]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Livemmo wrote...

Im amazed they chose not to announce this at e3 instead they choose to announce it like 3 weeks later.

Maybe their concept art wasn't finished? Iunno, it is weird.

Didn't they do a piece on the new MMO?  DAO already has a market, I assume they just wanted the new IP to get as much exposure as they can before release.

[drkshine86]

The Old Republic... a new IP?



lol

[onotix]

joriandrake wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

disenfranchised wrote...

I think this article sums up my feelings on Dragon Age 2 announcement.

http://www.escapistm...ryone-Except-Me

Where the publishers are pushing the market, is not where I'm headed. I think there are more than a few people like me.

I feel the same.

You aren't the only one

same sad parti is i didnt have the time to play games like xcom :C i grew up with sonic

[errant_knight]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about awakening is where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

Yeah, I remember that from the time. It was very disturbing in that it made me think that the very people who made the game didn't understand what was so special about it. I don't know how that could happen, but....you gotta think it's a possibility.

All they are doing is talking about changing the conversation system. You guys are making it sound like they are changing the entire game to be the size of an expansion.

Nope. I'm not. I'm talking entirely about the conversation system.

[hexaligned]

drkshine86 wrote...

The Old Republic... a new IP?

lol

Yeah, badly worded, sleep is calling my name.

[Koremark]

Give Bioware a fair chance please ,



True the DAO:Awaken conversation point where not that good of a idea but if it was added to the existing Format that DAO uses that be pretty cool and Blend in a little of Leliana's Song type Dialogue.



My Guess they are trying really hard to make the game dialogue more personable to the players.

[Kalfear]

Azriel77 wrote...

"Executive Producer Mark Darrah. “We are amplifying the things that made
Dragon Age: Origins such a huge success while introducing a more dynamic
combat system, improving the graphics, and telling the most important
story in our world.”"

Read your own poll:
www.bioware.com/_poll/view_poll.html
It clearly shows that The NPCs, dialogs and romances are what made DA:O what it is.  Now you didn't flat out say that you dumbed it down, but when you focus your speach on combat and graphics that sends warning bells going off in my head.  Of course it doesn't help that a developer in another thread said that the dialog/npc interaction in awakening(piece of crap for dialog compared to DAO) is where you are headed for DA2.  On top of that we have a voice actor for our character which just kills making a unique character that was truly yours(you know, one of those things that made the first game GREAT!), I can't help feel that the game is going to be some mass effect fantasy game and that is definetly NOT what I want to play.

I will keep an eye on this and hope I am wrong, but in the end I get the feeling that it will be an inferior product that will strip out the real things that made the first game great and replace it with stuipid action sequences and time sinks(wonder what the DAO version of planet scanning will be) to make the game seem longer than it really is so they can say 100+ hours of game play(when its really like 15 hours).

Sorry if this sounds negative, but Bioware has a history of this type of behavior, mass effect to mass effect 2, dragon age and then awakening(even though it was an expansion, it shows the direction its headed).  Etc.

Edit:
Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about how Awakening is
where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware
response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

hmmmm that does sound depressingly like Mass Effect 2 garbage that concentrated on combat and massively dumbed down the RPG elements for all but the shooter crowd!

I dont mind the voice actor myself but the comment about

"Executive Producer Mark Darrah. “We are amplifying the things that made
Dragon Age: Origins such a huge success while introducing a more dynamic
combat system,

is depressing and worry causing!

Christina Normal majorly screwed up ME2 saying much the same and whats sad is to this date she has no clue about it and why soooooo many people were upset!

Will wait and see on DA but if I think its going the combat first approach ME2 turned into, you can count this purchaser as a no buy option!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

[drkshine86]

No worries mate. It's been in development for a long time and everyone kinda knew it would be at E3. I uh, am sorta surprised they didn't announce this at E3 either. Even just a teaser would have been nice. But meh, can't have everything. It gives them a surprise for TGS though so they'll probably have gameplay trailers and whatnot ready for that convention.

[Chuvvy]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

disenfranchised wrote...

I think this article sums up my feelings on Dragon Age 2 announcement.

http://www.escapistm...ryone-Except-Me

Where the publishers are pushing the market, is not where I'm headed. I think there are more than a few people like me.

I feel the same.

You aren't the only one

I blame Bobby Kotick, I'm not sure how he did it but I know he did.

I hear he used his dark magicks.

He converses with the devil regularly.

[Chuvvy]

Kalfear wrote...

Will wait and see on DA but if I think its going the combat first approach ME2 turned into, you can count this purchaser as a no buy option!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

This, if they pull the ME stuff. I'm just going to pirate it. I ussually buy games from companys I want to support but if they say **** the fans again. Well they'd be pricks, to but it bluntly. If they take the bull**** bottomline approach that so many corperations seem to take which is to abbandon the hardcore fans that will carry through the dry times for the causual audience, that is.

[grieferbastard]

www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/publishers-note/7688-Publisher-Note-10-E-for-Everyone-Except-Me

Thank you for this. This sums up, very very well, where I fit in the market.

[druid126]

I can quite honestly say, if DA2 uses the same conversation system as Awakenings I will not buy it. Awakenings was a huge disappointment to me. In the posts you linked to, David Gaider makes the point of "why do you feel you have the right to ask personal questions to your companions is it because you could before?" but I think you have the right to ask your companions anything at anytime, whether it be inappropriate or not, because it's a *role-play* game.



I could ask David Gaider right now about his childhood or what his favourite colour is. I could ask him how much he weighs. The difference is he might not respond to me, as I am nobody to him, and if he were to respond to me he might even be angry about it. But I can still *ask* him. It's the same in Dragon Age. I can and should be able to ask any character personal questions even if they choose not to respond back to me or if they'd get angry at me for asking.



I don't like the idea of waiting for a companion to have a mark over his head so he can talk to me. I don't like clicking a keg so Oghren can belch at me and make a drunken joke but that's it. I should be able to, through the use of dialogue, persuade him to open up about his troubled family life. Maybe, just by talking through (like in real life), I could make a difference. That sort of finesse is only done with a "laundry list" of questions. It's certainly what *I* liked about DA:O and what I hated about Awakening.



Giving a few presents to a man who would see me dead shouldn't make him my new best friend! How rediculous was that? I gave a few trinkets to Nathaniel and suddenly he loved me... I don't get how that makes more sense than talking it out with him.

[Kalfear]

Slidell505 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Will wait and see on DA but if I think its going the combat first approach ME2 turned into, you can count this purchaser as a no buy option!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

This, if they pull the ME stuff. I'm just going to pirate it. I ussually buy games from companys I want to support but if they say **** the fans again. Well they'd be pricks, to but it bluntly. If they take the bull**** bottomline approach that so many corperations seem to take which is to abbandon the hardcore fans that will carry through the dry times for the causual audience, that is.

I love me games but Im not going to let anyone turn me into a pirater! 

Ill simply go with out then pirate a game.

But because of ME2, im going to be watching DA2 ALOT closer then I normally do (you can send thank you note to Christina Norman) and will be more ready to jump to conclussions I never use to with Bioware games (again, Christina gets all the credit)!

THATS the legacy you are left with because of Mass Effect 2 Bioware, im telling you straight up, DONT make the same mistake with the DA2 franchise!

[SDNcN]

The system in Awakenings needs work. For example I remember someone posting that they were reruning through the zones with all of their companions to make sure they got all the dialogue -- that should not be happening or even be possible.

The system needs to reward using characters actively in your group with character development and limit development for characters you never use. In origins I can fill Sten's approval nearly to the top without ever using him once, that should not happen.

But beyond the ability to ask a character some basic questions at camp/the hub, I see very little benefit to the Origins system over spreading dialogue out in the actual game other than "I like large blocks of exposition because it enables role-play."



Edit:

They actually should have dialogue at camp. Every time Hawke asks someone a personal question there the response should be "Mind your own bussiness Hawke, I'll talk to you when I feel like talking."

Modifié par SDNcN, 09 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[SnakeHelah]

Lol guys before complaining how things are really bad and terrible about DA2, maybe wait for the trailer to come out? I mean sure, you guys can speculate, but going all the way and saying "ILL JUST PIRATE THIS GAME IF THEY DO THAT AND THAT" isn't healthy for you nor for any of us here.

[Azriel77]

Honestly, if they go awakening or me style conversations, then I am just going to hold off and wait till it reaches the bargain bin for under $10. I have TONS of backed up games I have not gotten too and a lot of games coming out the pipe soon. So there is no real pressure to buy it. On top of it, we have a REAL mature RPG coming out with the witcher 2. The developers of the witcher listen to the fans and work hard to create a fantastic game. They have growing support while bioware seems to be losing support. I think bioware really started to go downhill when EA bought them out. Everybody warned about this, but bioware said they would not change. Well, we see how long that lasted didn't we.



Ah, being negative again. Trying to break the habit, but I can usually predict how a game is going to be by how the developers/company/marketing acts. This one is giving all the bad signs, from what we are hearing, to how the PR people is spinning this, to the fact that they did not show this at E3. Which tells me that it is so different from the first game that they KNEW that it would upset the fans of the first game, so they want to try and control the flow of information coming out.

[Lurklen]

 I haven't played awakening yet what was so bad about the dialogue system. Did they change much from the original?

[Azriel77]

Lurklen wrote...

 I haven't played awakening yet what was so bad about the dialogue system. Did they change much from the original?

Yes, they changed it.  This is what I wrote about it on another thread after I played Awakening:

Just want to add my 2 cents. I HATE the new system, the characters feel
less "real" because they never want to talk when "I" do. I have to move
around and HOPE that I will trigger an event or something so I can chat.
I did not even know that I was supposed to click on other things
besides the characters until near the end of the game when I
"accidentally" clicked on the keg behind the oghren and actually got him
to say something because he was ignoring me through the whole game.
Same with most of the characters, I know I have missed out on a lot
because of this new stupid system (seriously, its not intuitive at all).
Also, what they did say was not very inspiring, they would say
something and I would respond. We were not interacting or bonding, I was
just listening to some small dialog, put in two throw away words and
then forget about it. I LOVED the old system with the long laundry list
of questions, I really got to know each of the characters and respond to
form emotional bonds with them. These new characters were about as
interesting as cardboard cutout. To put it in perspective, in DAO, after
I learned about each character and bonded with them, I was emotionally
invested in their well being, I worried about what was troubling each of
them and wanted to help in any way I could. I would literally go from
one end of the map to the other end to find a mirror for morrigan, or
find stens sword, or any other quest. Why? because I KNEW about the
characters from having LONG talks with them and know what type of person
they are, everything from their past, to their dreams, to their hopes,
fears, you actually got to KNOW them. With DAOA, that is gone, I felt
very little about any of the members, I would here a sob story and that
would be it. What? Something about your sister missing? um, why do I
care? What? You don't feel like talking now...ok, sure, I will put
finding your sister that I know NOTHING about, for a person I know
NOTHING about on my top priority list. At first I actually went out of
my way to help, but even when I did complete a quest, I still got the
cold shoulder because they wanted to think alone or not be bothered
right now (all the way up to the END of the game!). After a while I
stopped completing companion quests and just focused on everything else.
At the end of the game in DAOA, some companion characters died and I
felt nothing for them. If this had been DAO characters I would have
agonized over their lost and went back to try again until I saved
everyone. DOAO characters? too much trouble and no emotional investment
at all.



Bring back the old system, just have a message appear that says "x
person wants to talk to you" when new dialog options appear for
characters. That way, those who do not like going to the campsite to
constantly check to see if new dialog is opened don't have to. I still
think a campsite or place of rest is needed, having a place you can just
stop and chill and bond with your companions is NICE, constantly
running around doing quest after quest just leads to quick burnout.
There needs to be a break between the action to smell the roses.