200 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

I could ask David Gaider right now about his childhood or what his favourite colour is. I could ask him how much he weighs. The difference is he might not respond to me, as I am nobody to him, and if he were to respond to me he might even be angry about it. But I can still *ask* him. It's the same in Dragon Age. I can and should be able to ask any character personal questions even if they choose not to respond back to me or if they'd get angry at me for asking.

Here's the problem with a system like that, though: the responses have to be scripted. You seem to want some sort of system where there are hundreds of responses and where the digital character will react randomly. That simply can't be done.

Lurklen wrote...

 I haven't played awakening yet what was so bad about the dialogue system. Did they change much from the original?

Awakenings was a much, much smaller game. The conversation system worked, but the problem people seem to have with it is that since it WAS such a small game, that the conversation system in place will not improve past the point of the tiny parts where it was implimented. I, for one, want to see how to works in a larger, full game before making any judgments. 

[Chuvvy]

Kalfear wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Will wait and see on DA but if I think its going the combat first approach ME2 turned into, you can count this purchaser as a no buy option!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

This, if they pull the ME stuff. I'm just going to pirate it. I ussually buy games from companys I want to support but if they say **** the fans again. Well they'd be pricks, to but it bluntly. If they take the bull**** bottomline approach that so many corperations seem to take which is to abbandon the hardcore fans that will carry through the dry times for the causual audience, that is.

I love me games but Im not going to let anyone turn me into a pirater! 

Ill simply go with out then pirate a game.

But because of ME2, im going to be watching DA2 ALOT closer then I normally do (you can send thank you note to Christina Norman) and will be more ready to jump to conclussions I never use to with Bioware games (again, Christina gets all the credit)!

THATS the legacy you are left with because of Mass Effect 2 Bioware, im telling you straight up, DONT make the same mistake with the DA2 franchise!

You don't like scurvy?

[Bryy_Miller]

Dragon Age 2 is a franchise?

[JohnF1986]

I, for one, welcome the change to the system applied in Awakening - as long as we can still have some form of fireplace chat. There was a little too much of that in DA:O for my tastes. Your companions should *talk* to you during adventures, not only comment once an hour during some dialogue with a third, without having any relevance whatsoever. Awakening was just too small for longer talks, that's all.

Modifié par JohnF1986, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:04 .

[Xandurpein]

If the conversation system is going to be, as they hinted, a mixture of the original game and some extra 'clickies' I will be perfectly fine with that. The 'clickies' had the advantage of tying your companions more into the plot really. Let's them react to the environment. I just hope they make the 'clickies' a little more obvious, as it's annoying to scan for them to make sure you haven't missed one.



Judging how Bioware have treated the games they produce so far, they will continue to produce games with top notch stories and put a heavy emphasis on character's and conversation. In that respect ME2 is in no way dumbed down compared to ME1. In some ways I think ME2 is a better RPG than ME1 in that respect.



What Mass Effect, and ME2 in particular, proves is that Bioware seems interested in downplaying the stat development of RPG's, and emphasize the flow of the game and the cinematic experience. That suggests fewer pauses, less talent/stat development and more focus on just moving your main character. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but doesn't in any way means that the story or the interaction with the Companions have to be 'dumbed down'.

[errant_knight]

Why can't they just talk when they have something to say? That's what people do. I find hunting for signs that they wish to speak to be totally non immersive. I want them to talk while on adventures. I really liked it on the times they did that in Origins, spontaneously. I shouldn't have to give them permission. But I also want to be able to instigate conversation any time it feels right in roleplay. I might want to have a conversation in camp, I might want to have that same conversation out on the road. It depends on my character and the mood. Anything less than that feels less real and spoils what was good about it, the sense that these are friends that you're travelling with.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 juillet 2010 - 07:28 .

[Lurklen]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Lurklen wrote...

 I haven't played awakening yet what was so bad about the dialogue system. Did they change much from the original?

Awakenings was a much, much smaller game. The conversation system worked, but the problem people seem to have with it is that since it WAS such a small game, that the conversation system in place will not improve past the point of the tiny parts where it was implimented. I, for one, want to see how to works in a larger, full game before making any judgments. 

 Yeah it doesn't sound bad, just limited by the scope of the game. The having to click on objects to trigger conversations doesn't sound terrible, the only flaw I can see is that you might miss some points of conversation if you don't click everything. Maybe some kind of hybrid of the systems would work better, maybe something like the way the player banter worked in the original. If you walk past the trigger the npc will try to strike up a conversation if you can't talk right then but you want to talk to them later you trigger that same conversation by approaching them.

I dunno the devs have always been pretty good at figuring this stuff out and it sounds like this is going to be much bigger than Awakenings. 

[Chuvvy]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I could ask David Gaider right now about his childhood or what his favourite colour is. I could ask him how much he weighs. The difference is he might not respond to me, as I am nobody to him, and if he were to respond to me he might even be angry about it. But I can still *ask* him. It's the same in Dragon Age. I can and should be able to ask any character personal questions even if they choose not to respond back to me or if they'd get angry at me for asking.

Here's the problem with a system like that, though: the responses have to be scripted. You seem to want some sort of system where there are hundreds of responses and where the digital character will react randomly. That simply can't be done.

Yet...

[Dave of Canada]

I didn't read anything but the main post, but I'd wait until we have more information before you yell out that they are wrong and you're right.

[Persephone]

Systemlord Baal wrote...

Maker help us if they make the dialog system Awakening-like ......

That (All the bugs aside) was what killed Awakening for me. I HATED that dialogue system with a burning passion and I still do.

[Lucy Glitter]

Slidell505 wrote...


All of my hate.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. The system in Awakening was good imho, it was just not polished. With a good amount of polish and big dialogue trees at camp, it's a fine step up from the Origins system.

EDIT: Alright, guys, think about it this way: The origins system was flawed in a lot of ways, Awakening did something new, and although it was irritating, it did work. I liked not being able to talk on missions, it's more immersive and logical, really. Just imagine the Awakening system fixed up, yeah? 

Having more NPC initiated dialogue, more immersiveness, no more gift spamming, no more, "Hi, let's introduce ourselves... 5 convos later in two minutes, I LOVE YOU!" 

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 09 juillet 2010 - 08:11 .

[ObserverStatus]

[Massadonious1]

No bioware, you have it wrong

[Yana Montana]

Azriel77 wrote...

That is true, buuuut trailers never show dialog options in a game(at least not for a while), its always the cutscenes, and fighting so don't expect too much info in that regard.

Well, if this doesn't pan out, there is the witcher 2 that I am sure will feed the need for a muture rpg that is missing.

This. I don't expect any mention of dialogue system in the trailer, it's all going to be about that totally not appealing to me (as a girl) bearded dude, some fighting and probably a sexed up lady  NPC, male PC's possible LI. 

Witcher 2 is going to be my first choice.

errant_knight wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened? They spent years developing a model that people loved and then ditched it with the first expansion and the first post-release DLC.

I agree.
I think BioWare was brainwashed. 

[kraidy1117]

Yana Montana wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

That is true, buuuut trailers never show dialog options in a game(at least not for a while), its always the cutscenes, and fighting so don't expect too much info in that regard.

Well, if this doesn't pan out, there is the witcher 2 that I am sure will feed the need for a muture rpg that is missing.

This. I don't expect any mention of dialogue system in the trailer, it's all going to be about that totally not appealing to me (as a girl) bearded dude, some fighting and probably a sexed up lady  NPC, male PC's possible LI. 

Witcher 2 is going to be my first choice.

errant_knight wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened? They spent years developing a model that people loved and then ditched it with the first expansion and the first post-release DLC.

I agree.
I think BioWare was brainwashed. 

It's the rEApers

[DragonAgeFanUK]

IF DA2's dialogue options are the same as in Awakening I won't be purchasing this game, simple as that, and for me after falling in love with Dragon Age: Origins that will be a massive shame.

[thenemesis77]

Azriel77 wrote...

Honestly, if they go awakening or me style conversations, then I am just going to hold off and wait till it reaches the bargain bin for under $10. I have TONS of backed up games I have not gotten too and a lot of games coming out the pipe soon. So there is no real pressure to buy it. On top of it, we have a REAL mature RPG coming out with the witcher 2. The developers of the witcher listen to the fans and work hard to create a fantastic game. They have growing support while bioware seems to be losing support. I think bioware really started to go downhill when EA bought them out. Everybody warned about this, but bioware said they would not change. Well, we see how long that lasted didn't we.

Ah, being negative again. Trying to break the habit, but I can usually predict how a game is going to be by how the developers/company/marketing acts. This one is giving all the bad signs, from what we are hearing, to how the PR people is spinning this, to the fact that they did not show this at E3. Which tells me that it is so different from the first game that they KNEW that it would upset the fans of the first game, so they want to try and control the flow of information coming out.

So very true, it's sad. The thing is they are going for the main stream now, not RPG fans, they just want to milk the cow now and I will say it now, this game will fail, they have taken everything that made DAO good and just threw it out the window, I don't see IGN or GS giving that 9.5 this go around, won't happen.

It was far too soon for a DA2 and you know it was bad if not even a hint of it at E3, so yea I'am glad they went with a new story and Character, would have hated to see them ruin my warden.

It takes to much time to make a game like DAO, it was rich and deep, with a great story and you got to really know your party memebers. That is a thing of the past now, they could have made a great game like DAO but they changed Story for Eye candy and when you do that with a RPG, it's just a run of the mill heap.

[The Masked Rog]

So very true, it's sad. The thing is they are going for the main stream now, not RPG fans, they just want to milk the cow now and I will say it now, this game will fail, they have taken everything that made DAO good and just threw it out the window, I don't see IGN or GS giving that 9.5 this go around, won't happen.



It was far too soon for a DA2 and you know it was bad if not even a hint of it at E3, so yea I'am glad they went with a new story and Character, would have hated to see them ruin my warden.



It takes to much time to make a game like DAO, it was rich and deep, with a great story and you got to really know your party memebers. That is a thing of the past now, they could have made a great game like DAO but they changed Story for Eye candy and when you do that with a RPG, it's just a run of the mill heap.

~

How do you know that? You haven't even seen a trailer. I think the story will be just the same quality as Dragon Age, same for interaction and companions. Yes, there may be a new dialogue system, but then what?I don't care about change, if it is a good change.



Dynamic combat system can mean anything. And most likely it means marketing.

[UberDuber]

Where they drugged when they decided this? I agree with you, the thought of a voice for my character is annoying, He or she will have a deep american voice like shepard. The dialog will be cut down like awakening. Also your character will say something completely different to what the dialog actually says.



Yeah Bioware. this game is going to be great! just take everything good about Dragon age origins and chuck it out a window. Thats the kind of game we love.

[Ecael]

disenfranchised wrote...

I think this article sums up my feelings on Dragon Age 2 announcement.

http://www.escapistm...ryone-Except-Me

Where the publishers are pushing the market, is not where I'm headed. I think there are more than a few people like me.

That article is useless.

I guarantee you that if any gaming company returned to the development costs of the past generation, people would outright ignore it for games that give them fully-voiced and well-animated characters, or for games that just give them the best graphics and multiplayer gameplay.

[joriandrake]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Yana Montana wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

That is true, buuuut trailers never show dialog options in a game(at least not for a while), its always the cutscenes, and fighting so don't expect too much info in that regard.

Well, if this doesn't pan out, there is the witcher 2 that I am sure will feed the need for a muture rpg that is missing.

This. I don't expect any mention of dialogue system in the trailer, it's all going to be about that totally not appealing to me (as a girl) bearded dude, some fighting and probably a sexed up lady  NPC, male PC's possible LI. 

Witcher 2 is going to be my first choice.

errant_knight wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened? They spent years developing a model that people loved and then ditched it with the first expansion and the first post-release DLC.

I agree.
I think BioWare was brainwashed. 

It's the rEApers

here, have a cookie!

[SkittlesKat96]

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

[KEMKA]

I think people are getting worried a bit prematurely

I'm a bit confused at how some are 'reading' this particular sentence : "We are amplifying the things that made  Dragon Age: Origins such a
huge success while introducing a more dynamic combat system,
improving the graphics, and telling the most important story in our
world"
They aren't identifying the graphics and combat as those 'great successes', to me this says that they are improving on the successfull parts of the game AND making changes/upgrades to the combat/graphics (if you look at the sentence it says "...huge success WHILE introducing..."). In the first few weeks when DA came out there were a lot of threads on these forums about the graphics & combat and how some people didn't like them. To me the paragraph above is just saying that they are improving what all ready works and changing what people have complained about (graphics and combat)


The other quotes being brought up are, to an extent, open to interpretation too.

http://social.biowar...index/1761467/1

As far as i can see they are thinking of changing the way you go about initiating dialog, not the depth or the content of it? I think awakenings was a kind of test run for them just to test the mechanics of it?

Someone mentioned something about having the right to ask anything at any point for the sake of role-playing purposes - while I do agree with this, I think role-playing games are the most difficult to implement in a realistic way as you are trying to imitate everyday life (and the sheer amount of things people would like would take a long time to do) I think they are trying to make it flow more naturally? People very rarely just go up to an acquaintance and ask for their life story, those kind of conversations come around in a 'secondary' way, something happens or a conversation leads in that direction, and people ask questions. I haven't played awakenings so I'm just going on what I've read. Personally I do actually like striking up a conversation by the camp fire, but I can see what they are trying to acheive when they are working on the dialogue system. I would prefere a mix of the two though. Something Gaider said may reassure you:
"I think some people are getting the wrong impression, that my goal is to
strip out your ability to initiate dialogue. That's not the case at
all. It's more a matter of when and how."

[krikkern]

I agree with the original poster, Azriel77. By the sounds of it this doesn't look good.
They have removed our freedom of choosing and creating whatever type of character we want by giving us a premade character named Hawke. That's terrible!!! I don't want that, none of us want that. We need to to be allowed to create our own unique character and decide their appearance and voice, class, gender, name etc.
And i say like many others, if the dialogue will be more like in awakening than in DAO that is BAAAD. Awakening was a dissapointment as expansions ALWAYS are after having played a brilliant and epic Dragon Age: Origins. Let's keep the things that was good in the original game.
And although improved combat dynamics and whatever we might call it is sure to be a good thing, it should come second, always second behind dialogue, story, romance and depth.
A pure RPG is what we wish for, in best Baldur's Gate style, we do not wish for a so-called "action rpg" with focus on combat.
Now it might not be so bad as it sounds, and as my impression tells me, but what we do know for sure is that we have at least lost the freedom of creating our own unique character because we're forced to play as "Hawke"... and that alone is bad enough.

[TMZuk]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

.... They don't make DA2 to get our praise. They make DA2 to get our money. As much money as possible. That means minimizing the expenses, and maximizing the sales. So they do the ME trick, two protagonists, one male and one female, with the focus on the male for reasons of franchise they can sell to fitteen year olds.

They are going to fully voice it, but instead of hiring six voiceactors for the protagonist, they can do it with two, one male, one female.

They are going to make a game like ME2. Sleek, fastpaced, combat orientated, with a linear story that is intially exciting, but with little replay value. Lots of silly achievements, and no depth, and no real choises or freedom either.

This could have been acceptable, if it wasn't because they HAVE already made DA:O, which set a different bar. While it had way to much combat, and I wish I could disable the "achivements" (What the hell did I achieve, it's an RPG, not an arcade game.), the different Origins gave it a lot of replay value.

Most of us who played it through, wish to see how our characters ends. Bioware have not produced anything that gives any sort of closure. They are -truly- slapping us in our faces, and I at least have a bitter taste of ash in my mouth as I write this.

All I can hope for now, is that another company picks up the torch, and goes back to produce quality RPG's, with real choises, real consequences, and a finished story. Bioware, it seems, has dropped it, as they are now in the clutches of EA. I will miss the Bioware logo popping up on my screen, as it has done since the days of BG, but as it stands, I don't see them going back to producing the sort of games I love.