200 réponses à ce sujet

[KEMKA]

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

[Ecael]

TMZuk wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

.... They don't make DA2 to get our praise. They make DA2 to get our money. As much money as possible. That means minimizing the expenses, and maximizing the sales. So they do the ME trick, two protagonists, one male and one female, with the focus on the male for reasons of franchise they can sell to fitteen year olds.

They are going to fully voice it, but instead of hiring six voiceactors for the protagonist, they can do it with two, one male, one female.

Six voice actors to record 10 lines each or two voice actors who may have to record an entire game's worth of dialogue?

BioWare's current game design centered around full voice acting and engaging characters bleeds money just as fast as they earn it. But they continue to do so because it's what every player wants from BioWare and no one else.

[Nodrim01]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

We know that a new Shepard is about to born to save the world.

Thats how ME started with a simple name and a universe and the game had everything, combat, dialogues, story, rpg elements, then ME 2 came and the game had ... well for this u have to play both games. And i predict same future for Dragon Age saga, started with a masterpiece(well in ME case u cant name first a masterpiece) on which Bioware worked around 5 years and now after 1 year and a half DA 2 comes with announced changes on most of the parts that separate DA: O from the mass of useless games.

Modifié par Nodrim01, 09 juillet 2010 - 11:56 .

[joriandrake]

Ecael wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

.... They don't make DA2 to get our praise. They make DA2 to get our money. As much money as possible. That means minimizing the expenses, and maximizing the sales. So they do the ME trick, two protagonists, one male and one female, with the focus on the male for reasons of franchise they can sell to fitteen year olds.

They are going to fully voice it, but instead of hiring six voiceactors for the protagonist, they can do it with two, one male, one female.

Six voice actors to record 10 lines each or two voice actors who may have to record an entire game's worth of dialogue?

BioWare's current game design centered around full voice acting and engaging characters bleeds money just as fast as they earn it. But they continue to do so because it's what every player wants from BioWare and no one else.

bioware already had voice actors do all the hitting, damaged, healing, trap finding, ect comments for various voice choices for main character, I don't see why they couldn't do all the dialogue for various versions of male and female voices for multiple races

even if they would pick people from developers themself to cut costs, i would still prefer that to cut races out due to voiceover costs

Joe playing Kane is also a great thing, others like "Seth" were great too, depsite that they were originally just members of the CnC dev team

Modifié par joriandrake, 09 juillet 2010 - 11:52 .

[Persephone]

Yana Montana wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

That is true, buuuut trailers never show dialog options in a game(at least not for a while), its always the cutscenes, and fighting so don't expect too much info in that regard.

Well, if this doesn't pan out, there is the witcher 2 that I am sure will feed the need for a muture rpg that is missing.

This. I don't expect any mention of dialogue system in the trailer, it's all going to be about that totally not appealing to me (as a girl) bearded dude, some fighting and probably a sexed up lady  NPC, male PC's possible LI. 

Witcher 2 is going to be my first choice.

errant_knight wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened? They spent years developing a model that people loved and then ditched it with the first expansion and the first post-release DLC.

I agree.
I think BioWare was brainwashed. 

I blame EA. They ruin every company they get their greedy paws on.

[Ecael]

joriandrake wrote...

even if they would pick people from developers themself to cut costs, i would still prefer that to cut races out due to voiceover costs

Joe playing Kane is also a great thing, others like "Seth" were great too, depsite that they were originally just members of the CnC dev team

It has been done before, but not with great success:

Chaos Wars - Yuri/Karen
Chaos Wars - Voice Clip 1

Chris Jelinek .... president CEO: localize staff

Tyler Jelinek ... Additional Voices (voice: English version)
Quest Jelinek ... Additional Voices (voice: English version)
Kay Jelinek .... special thanks: localize team
Lee Jelinek .... special thanks: localize team

[KEMKA]

Nodrim01 wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

We know that a new Shepard is about to born to save the world.

In all seriousness though, we don't know anything. All these comparisons to ME/2 are just people panicking and then getting angry when we've been giving a tiny tiny amount of info.

[Caruka]

By "More Dynamic Combat", I think that means they'll try to appeal to action gamers by making the combat faster paced, and probably dumbing it down so the average gamer can understand it. >_>, why does every developer take this route? "HEY GUYS! I THINK THAT WE SHOULD MAKE THE GAME MORE SIMPLE, SIMPLICITY IS GOOD!" This is the general opinion of people who make modern-day RPGs, they think that it's essential to dumb it down so everyone will love it. To be honest, as a RPG, everyone's not going to understand it, not everyone is going to love it, just stick to your strengths and keep it true to the source material Bioware, it's something you haven't been doing lately.

[Nodrim01]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

Nodrim01 wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

We know that a new Shepard is about to born to save the world.

In all seriousness though, we don't know anything. All these comparisons to ME/2 are just people panicking and then getting angry when we've been giving a tiny tiny amount of info.

True but history repeats...

PS:  I edited my previous post to support it some of the things i think.

[krikkern]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

hm, you're right about the class choice, i would be surprised if not, but still it seems we've lost much of the freedom in character creation. And it seems from what I have read that we're forced to be human.
Much of what I write might be based on other forumers posts though, i admit, and some of it might be mere speculation from them, which leads to me speculating further.

at least I'll grant myself the freedom to be sceptical, and worry a bit

[MistySun]

If Bioware have the awakening type of dialogue system in DA2 then we all know what they have done.

They have killed it !!!!

[Itkovian]

Ecael wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

.... They don't make DA2 to get our praise. They make DA2 to get our money. As much money as possible. That means minimizing the expenses, and maximizing the sales. So they do the ME trick, two protagonists, one male and one female, with the focus on the male for reasons of franchise they can sell to fitteen year olds.

They are going to fully voice it, but instead of hiring six voiceactors for the protagonist, they can do it with two, one male, one female.

Six voice actors to record 10 lines each or two voice actors who may have to record an entire game's worth of dialogue?

BioWare's current game design centered around full voice acting and engaging characters bleeds money just as fast as they earn it. But they continue to do so because it's what every player wants from BioWare and no one else.

And you are correct. Having the protagonist fuly voiced is actually a tremendous expense. Indeed, I recall Mark Meer saying he had the most lines of any other character in any computer games (the same would go for Jennifer Hale). The sheer quantity of voicework involved in a Bioware-level RPG is insane, they certain are NOT doing any cost cutting by making it fully-voiced.

Add to that that they are going towards the fully cinematic style of Mass Effect 2, where al the characters are actually _acted_ rather than just standing there and talking, and the expense grows even further (DAO had some "virtual" acting, sure, but it was far more static than ME2 in general, and of course the main character very rarely did anything but stand there).

If anything, the cost cutting was in making DAO have a traditiional unvoiced protagonist. There's a reason ME and ME2's cinematic experience was so groundbreaking: no one's done it before because it requires a huge investment in the actual storytelling, and focusing primarily on the storytelling is Bioware's defining feature.

As for the more dynamic combat, I'm hoping that the line about "thinking like a general" means that the party-based tactical combat of DAO still remains in some form, even though "more dynamic" usually is buzz for
more action-oriented.

Perhaps they are simply going the TOR route, where there will be no more auto-attacks for the character under your control. Rather, for every single attack your character performs will be you using a special ability of some sort. Coupled with more of the flamboyant takedowns we already see in DAO (like when you drop an Ogre) and perhaps choerographed combat (as in TOR, where characters don't simply swing weapons blindly), and that would fulfill the "think like a general, and fight like a spartan" style of combat they mention.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[Ecael]

Itkovian wrote...

Ecael wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

The game TRAILER hasn't even been out yet, I'm just going to be patient and wait for news.
We should be praising them for making a DA2 for us, I have complete faith in them.

.... They don't make DA2 to get our praise. They make DA2 to get our money. As much money as possible. That means minimizing the expenses, and maximizing the sales. So they do the ME trick, two protagonists, one male and one female, with the focus on the male for reasons of franchise they can sell to fitteen year olds.

They are going to fully voice it, but instead of hiring six voiceactors for the protagonist, they can do it with two, one male, one female.

Six voice actors to record 10 lines each or two voice actors who may have to record an entire game's worth of dialogue?

BioWare's current game design centered around full voice acting and engaging characters bleeds money just as fast as they earn it. But they continue to do so because it's what every player wants from BioWare and no one else.

And you are correct. Having the protagonist fuly voiced is actually a tremendous expense. Indeed, I recall Mark Meer saying he had the most lines of any other character in any computer games (the same would go for Jennifer Hale). The sheer quantity of voicework involved in a Bioware-level RPG is insane, they certain are NOT doing any cost cutting by making it fully-voiced.

Add to that that they are going towards the fully cinematic style of Mass Effect 2, where al the characters are actually _acted_ rather than just standing there and talking, and the expense grows even further (DAO had some "virtual" acting, sure, but it was far more static than ME2 in general, and of course the main character very rarely did anything but stand there).

If anything, the cost cutting was in making DAO have a traditiional unvoiced protagonist. There's a reason ME and ME2's cinematic experience was so groundbreaking: no one's done it before because it requires a huge investment in the actual storytelling, and focusing primarily on the storytelling is Bioware's defining feature.

As for the more dynamic combat, I'm hoping that the line about "thinking like a general" means that the party-based tactical combat of DAO still remains in some form, even though "more dynamic" usually is buzz for
more action-oriented.

Perhaps they are simply going the TOR route, where there will be no more auto-attacks for the character under your control. Rather, for every single attack your character performs will be you using a special ability of some sort. Coupled with more of the flamboyant takedowns we already see in DAO (like when you drop an Ogre) and perhaps choerographed combat (as in TOR, where characters don't simply swing weapons blindly), and that would fulfill the "think like a general, and fight like a spartan" style of combat they mention.

Thank you.

Itkovian

Exactly. Voice acting and cinematics place a huge burden on the ones writing, developing, testing and even investing in these games. BioWare isn't cutting costs in the slightest, even if they aren't the most popular game developer in the industry.

[Itkovian]

krikkern wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

hm, you're right about the class choice, i would be surprised if not, but still it seems we've lost much of the freedom in character creation. And it seems from what I have read that we're forced to be human.
Much of what I write might be based on other forumers posts though, i admit, and some of it might be mere speculation from them, which leads to me speculating further.

at least I'll grant myself the freedom to be sceptical, and worry a bit

Play Mass Effect 2. That's what the character generation will be like. Your last name is fixed, you can only be human, and your "origin" is already set. Everything else is defined by you (class, abilities, first name, appearance, gender).

Whether you're fine with taht is up to you, but at the very least you still have a ton of character generation to do.

Itkovian

[AllThatJazz]

I don't feel like I''ll be losing too much freedom of choice. Okay, so I can no longer choose between one of three races (tbh, mostly went with human anyway). And we no longer have the choice of one of several origin stories - which accounted for what, an hour of game time and a few random comments throughout the game but which otherwise were far more cosmetic than actually relevant to the DA universe.



I can still choose whether to play as male or female, presumably will still be able choose my physical appearance, can still choose my class, and most importantly, will in all likelihood still be able to make in-game decisions that reflect the morality of my character. That's a helluva lot more choice than offered by, say 'The Witcher', which still manages to be a damned fine game. Maybe, in terms of choice, DA2 could lose out slightly in comparison to DA1, but if that means a tighter, more focused narrative its a trade-off I'll happily make.



Also, as long as the female Hawke is voiced by an actress of Jennifer Hale's quality, I will be a very happy bunny.x

[Itkovian]

MistySun wrote...

If Bioware have the awakening type of dialogue system in DA2 then we all know what they have done.
They have killed it !!!!

For one thing, we know they don't.

What they will have as a dialogue system is what we see in Mass Effect (probably ME2, which is more cinematic than ME1).

If you want a preview, download Leliana's Song. They implemented ME-style dialogue in that DLC (and it works out great, IMO).

Of course, what you probably mean is that in Awakenings we couldn't initiate cinematic dialog with our companions anymore, instead having to wait until we happen upon an important location for that character, or until they had something to say in the main hall of Vigil's Keep.

And so I have to ask: why is that so bad? Must it automatically translate in us having less dialogue with the NPCs? Of course not. Indeed I recall having plenty of dialogue in Awakenings. It does mean that we will miss out on some dialog if we don't take certain NPCs on certain quests, but that's how it worked before already.

It seems to me people were against what was done in Awakenings because they perceive the "new dialog system" resulted in less NPC interactions. One should consider that perhaps this reduced interaction was not related to this new system, but to the expansion having less interaction than the main game (which makes perfect sense, since it's about 1/4 of its length).

In any case, it certainly did not kill Awakening, and it won't kill DA2. It's a Bioware game, that means it'll have plenty of storytelling and NPC interactions. That's what Bioware does, and it's not about to change anytime soon (even ME2, arguably their most action-oriented game, is famous for its superlative character development and storytelling).

If you want to worry about anything, focus on whether or not you liked how dialogue worked in ME2. If you didn't like that, THEN you have a valid concern.

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

AllThatJazz wrote...

I don't feel like I''ll be losing too much freedom of choice. Okay, so I can no longer choose between one of three races (tbh, mostly went with human anyway). And we no longer have the choice of one of several origin stories - which accounted for what, an hour of game time and a few random comments throughout the game but which otherwise were far more cosmetic than actually relevant to the DA universe.

I can still choose whether to play as male or female, presumably will still be able choose my physical appearance, can still choose my class, and most importantly, will in all likelihood still be able to make in-game decisions that reflect the morality of my character. That's a helluva lot more choice than offered by, say 'The Witcher', which still manages to be a damned fine game. Maybe, in terms of choice, DA2 could lose out slightly in comparison to DA1, but if that means a tighter, more focused narrative its a trade-off I'll happily make.

Also, as long as the female Hawke is voiced by an actress of Jennifer Hale's quality, I will be a very happy bunny.x

Well said.

However, I think you ARE missing the major point in favour of the canon male Hawke: Duncan's Beard.

It lives!

Itkovian

[AllThatJazz]

Itkovian



Duncan's beard is clearly such an integral part of DA2 (perhaps even the God Baby itself?) that even female PCs will be forced to sport facial hair. I believe that's actually official now, I just ... er ... can't remember where I read it.



I agree re: the dialogue thing. I don't remember having a lot less meaningful conversation in Awakenings (taking campaign length into account, of course); I do remember having a lot more pointless conversation options in Origins. And by pointless, I mean dialogue trees that don't lead anywhere new or divulge a bit of new info or whatever. I'm all for party banter, and deep companion development. I am not all for endless clicking through the same dialogue options in the hope that something has changed. When it usually hasn't.x

[AloraKast]

druid126 wrote...

I can quite honestly say, if DA2 uses the same conversation system as Awakenings I will not buy it. Awakenings was a huge disappointment to me. In the posts you linked to, David Gaider makes the point of "why do you feel you have the right to ask personal questions to your companions is it because you could before?" but I think you have the right to ask your companions anything at anytime, whether it be inappropriate or not, because it's a *role-play* game.

I could ask David Gaider right now about his childhood or what his favourite colour is. I could ask him how much he weighs. The difference is he might not respond to me, as I am nobody to him, and if he were to respond to me he might even be angry about it. But I can still *ask* him. It's the same in Dragon Age. I can and should be able to ask any character personal questions even if they choose not to respond back to me or if they'd get angry at me for asking.

I don't like the idea of waiting for a companion to have a mark over his head so he can talk to me. I don't like clicking a keg so Oghren can belch at me and make a drunken joke but that's it. I should be able to, through the use of dialogue, persuade him to open up about his troubled family life. Maybe, just by talking through (like in real life), I could make a difference. That sort of finesse is only done with a "laundry list" of questions. It's certainly what *I* liked about DA:O and what I hated about Awakening.

Giving a few presents to a man who would see me dead shouldn't make him my new best friend! How rediculous was that? I gave a few trinkets to Nathaniel and suddenly he loved me... I don't get how that makes more sense than talking it out with him.

This!

Couldn't have said it better myself Dru!

All I can do at this point is wait and see, read and research as much as I can... and amongst all the information that is out there, try to separate the good, solid, informed and accurate data from ... well, everything else.

[ROD525]

Itkovian wrote...

krikkern wrote...

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

krikkern - what do we know about hawke so far?  The website just says that they are a survivor/refugee of the blight and that's all I think! We can still choose warrior/thief/mage too. Don't worry just yet

hm, you're right about the class choice, i would be surprised if not, but still it seems we've lost much of the freedom in character creation. And it seems from what I have read that we're forced to be human.
Much of what I write might be based on other forumers posts though, i admit, and some of it might be mere speculation from them, which leads to me speculating further.

at least I'll grant myself the freedom to be sceptical, and worry a bit

Play Mass Effect 2. That's what the character generation will be like. Your last name is fixed, you can only be human, and your "origin" is already set. Everything else is defined by you (class, abilities, first name, appearance, gender).

Whether you're fine with taht is up to you, but at the very least you still have a ton of character generation to do.

Itkovian

Okay, I can see why folks that like Elves or Dwarves would be  upset considering you could be one in the first game. But what is all this stuff people are spewing about not being able to customize your character or being upset about your character having a fixed last name. Ummm...Cousland...Aeducan,those weren't fixed names? They all had predetermined backrounds just like Hawke,so what the heck are you people talking about?
Its not like Dragon Age had you start out as a child ala Fable and grow into adulthood. You spent maybe 30 minutes to an hour in your origin then its off to Ostagar. Hawke has a predetermined backround and you get to forge his future,so whats the problem?

[Proposition_Joe]

I have the exact same worries to a tee as you azriel, will this be another "cool action rpg" for the console generation, look me slay that kewl monster in even better graphics, wow awesome.

[Hollingdale]

You guys just can't take the fact that Bioware blend genres. You want hardcore rpg's and that's fine with me, we all have our own tastes. But please stop with the elitist dogmatic bull**** about action/rpg blends automatically being inferior pure rpg's.



Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

[AllThatJazz]

Re: dialogue styles in DA2

I agree about the exclamation marks thing. I'd like there to be a more organic approach to finding out whether your companions have something new to say. But I liked being able to click on objects in the gameworld and have your companions use them as a way of opening up to the PC. It seemed quite realistic to me.

While in theory it sounds good to be able to ask any question you want at any time you want to whomever you wish, in practice it could get a bit tiresome if the only response you will ever get from them is 'sod off, I'm not telling' or equivalent.

Don't want them to get rid of 'camp chat' altogether by any means, but I would definitely be happy to see a hybrid of Origins and Awakenings style dialogue.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 09 juillet 2010 - 01:47 .

[Chuvvy]

AllThatJazz wrote...
'sod off, I'm not telling' or equivalent.

IE Mass Effect dialog system.

[Chuvvy]

Hollingdale wrote...
Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

It had more of a mediocre story. I'd rather less of a good story that has you doing relevent missions instead running around doing recruitment missions.