200 réponses à ce sujet

[TMZuk]

Hollingdale wrote...

You guys just can't take the fact that Bioware blend genres. You want hardcore rpg's and that's fine with me, we all have our own tastes. But please stop with the elitist dogmatic bull**** about action/rpg blends automatically being inferior pure rpg's.

Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

They ARE inferior to pure RPG's as RPG's That is OBVIOUS! How can they not be? They limit your choises, your freedom and guides you along a predetermined path. If you like that, fine, I prefer freedom.

All CRPG's are limited by the amount of choises you can program, unlike a PnP rpg, where only the GM sets the limits. And Bioware's games have all been restricted, placing emphasis on story telling over freedom. That is where the waters divide Bioware from Bethesda.

However, in ME2, and obviously in DA2 as well, they have take the restrictions way beyond what for me is acceptable. While I love the powerful stories told by Biowares games, I don't want to play an interactive rollercoaster ride.

Bethesda took it to far the other way, the freedom became repetitive and boring, until they released Fallout 3. There was all the freedom of Oblivion, combined with a good story, and good acting. Their dialgoues could still be improved upon, with more dramatic cutscenes, but they made a truly great and innovative RPG-fighting system, emphasis on RPG. Your characters skill is important, more than your own.

DA:O gave us a truly great character generation system, which gave the game a lot of replay value. With one fixed protagonist, that is obviously gone. This is going to be ME2 in DA clothing, and I am hugely dissapointed.

[Series5Ranger]

Vicious wrote...

You should go see the thread of the people crying about how Shepard socks an innocent female reporter right in the kisser.

Ya like she was "innocent", she ambushes you in the 1st game trying to make you look bad, and in the 2nd, she tries the same tactics., and you either have the choice to slug her or walk away.

[Hollingdale]

Then again it's the middlepart so I think a story that focused on characters was a logical choice which worked well and despite it's weaknesses should also be rewarding in the end.

[UberDuber]

Im just waiting on more imformation before I completly ignore this game. Im not imprressed with the little imformation I have heard so far.For me it just seems like they are ruining Dragon age and everything we loved about the first game.



I hate they very thought of Dragon age dialog being like Mass effect. With a stupid shepard voice agh.

[MDarwin]

Hollingdale wrote...

You guys just can't take the fact that Bioware blend genres. You want hardcore rpg's and that's fine with me, we all have our own tastes. But please stop with the elitist dogmatic bull**** about action/rpg blends automatically being inferior pure rpg's.

Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

Opinons differ, like mine to yours. An (blend) Action RPG is different to a "pure RPG". Diablo is a so called "Action RPG". I prefer a "pure RPG". And I feel DA2 will not be, let say RPG. Tho I could be wrong.

And let's stay "civilized". No need for name calling, isn't it?

[TMZuk]

Hollingdale wrote...

Then again it's the middlepart so I think a story that focused on characters was a logical choice which worked well and despite it's weaknesses should also be rewarding in the end.

Considering your signature, I don't really understand why you even bother commenting on DA:O. Obviously you didn't like it, so of course you see no loss.

[BallaZs]

Lets just hope that they'll stick to the DA:O dialogue system.

I'd hate to see the failure of DA2.

[MKU]

I'm really sorry, but for my taste, it sounds a pure commercial decision ****. We all know that ME is a greater success compared to DA:O, but "just" if you consider the consoles. The ME fornula sells very good in the consoles market, something that DA:O could have not done due the development inspired primarly by the PC version.
DA2 is going to be purely and clearly developed considering the consoles target: no more uber strategic fights, no more peculiar distinctive main characters (too many days of development, Bioware has to do the sequel in 1year!), no more, I dare to say, lenght and deep RPG mechanics.
Bioware is the one who's putting the money for the development, they have the right to choose anything for their IPs. But I'm simply shocked at how far I'm out of the new videogames market. I don't want another ME (which is a great game). What I enjoyed the most of DA:O was the feeling ala BG, the great sense of being the character I built and the great epic battles with a tangible strategic layout.
Do we really need another MElike-verylowRPG-game? Is there no more room for 2 types of RPGs? Do you really need to have to release a sequel in 1 year? (Yes, becouse the consoles techs are getting very old and they're realizing that the DLC are nearly useless in terms of cash incomes).
In my humble position, but as a marketing director in a pharmaceutical industry, I dare to ask you: Are you sure the marketing was right about the first DA:O? I'm speaking about the very goofy spoilerous trailers with that out of the way Manson's music.
You can't always reach a broader audiance by lowering the product factors, you have to marketing it in a better and more sophisticated way.

Videogames market is going nearly worse than the music market, you really have to search alot to find product you really like, with the drawback that an indy company can't compete in terms of technical and general management standards.

[AlanC9]

TMZuk wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

Then again it's the middlepart so I think a story that focused on characters was a logical choice which worked well and despite it's weaknesses should also be rewarding in the end.

Considering your signature, I don't really understand why you even bother commenting on DA:O. Obviously you didn't like it, so of course you see no loss.

I always read his sig as sarcasm, myself. Was I wrong?

[AlanC9]

TMZuk wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

You guys just can't take the fact that Bioware blend genres. You want hardcore rpg's and that's fine with me, we all have our own tastes. But please stop with the elitist dogmatic bull**** about action/rpg blends automatically being inferior pure rpg's.

Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

They ARE inferior to pure RPG's as RPG's That is OBVIOUS! How can they not be? They limit your choises, your freedom and guides you along a predetermined path. If you like that, fine, I prefer freedom.

How do action elements limit choices, again?

[snfonseka]

If this game turnout to be a game that "the developer gives the gamer what the developer wants rather than what the gamer actually wants"... then I really hope BW can learn a lesson from its' sales figures in the future !!!

[TheAzureVanguard]

Wow it's amazing how fast you guys jump to conclusions.



I'm willing to give them a chance. And frankly I loved Mass Effect 2 so if DA2 is ME2 in fantasy land then I won't say that it will be a disappointment. So long as the story is excellent and the voice acting great I'm sure it will be a great game.



Now having said all that there is NO REASON to believe that this game will play exactly like Mass Effect 2.....



The 2 games are different in lots of aspects and I'm sure Bioware will strive their hardest to make each retain a DISTINCT feel....

[The Elite Elite]

Wait, let me see if I have this right. He says that they are keeping what was good about Dragon Age and are improving the things that weren't so great like the combat and graphics, and this is a call of concern? Sounds like good news to me, not bad news.

[KEMKA]

I don't understand why DA2 is being called" ME with swords" simply because the main char is voiced? It seems like a huge leap?   I'm going to wait to hear more about the dialog system, the devs have said they want to take their lead from DA:A, but I don't think it's going to be identical. I think awakenings was a test drive for a different type of dialog system, not a 'final version'

[AlanC9]

Yep, The Elite Elite, that's pretty much it. The OP seems to have fairly poor reading comprehension.



As for the rest of the thread, that's pretty much folks disagreeing on what would constitute an improvement to the combat.

[UberDuber]

How about Bioware just leave it alone? dont voice Dragon age 2 give us good dialogs with imformation instead?

[Francesca Galli]

*sigh*

All right, I'll wait for more informations before judging.
But what I've heard so far is, well, quite the opposite of what I was hoping for.
If DA2 will turn up as I fear it will, I'm sorry, but I won't play it.

This is so sad, DA:O is my favourite game ever.

[snfonseka]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

I don't understand why DA2 is being called" ME with swords" simply because the main char is voiced? It seems like a huge leap?   I'm going to wait to hear more about the dialog system, the devs have said they want to take their lead from DA:A, but I don't think it's going to be identical. I think awakenings was a test drive for a different type of dialog system, not a 'final version'

If the main char is voiced then there will be less dialog options with less choices !!!!

[DanaScu]

The Elite Elite wrote...

Wait, let me see if I have this right. He says that they are keeping what was good about Dragon Age and are improving the things that weren't so great like the combat and graphics, and this is a call of concern? Sounds like good news to me, not bad news.

Are you sure they know what was good? Or is it their/EA's opinion of what was good?

Planet scanning was a great thing. Clicking on random unmarked bushes, trees and floating rowboats in dreamland was a good thing [only with certain companions, mind you]. Creating limited ammo/thermal clips when they weren't in the first ME was a good thing. One piece armors that magically allow you to drink through solid faceplates was a good thing. 

Maybe someone can come up with a mutually agreed upon definition of the word "good". 

[The Elite Elite]

DanaScu wrote...

The Elite Elite wrote...

Wait, let me see if I have this right. He says that they are keeping what was good about Dragon Age and are improving the things that weren't so great like the combat and graphics, and this is a call of concern? Sounds like good news to me, not bad news.

Are you sure they know what was good? Or is it their/EA's opinion of what was good?

Planet scanning was a great thing. Clicking on random unmarked bushes, trees and floating rowboats in dreamland was a good thing [only with certain companions, mind you]. Creating limited ammo/thermal clips when they weren't in the first ME was a good thing. One piece armors that magically allow you to drink through solid faceplates was a good thing. 

Maybe someone can come up with a mutually agreed upon definition of the word "good". 

Well, I'd say we know what they consider good and what needs improving based on what he says in that setence in the OP. He says that the combat, graphics, and story are what are changing, so that most likely means they think all the other things about DA were good. To me that sounds about right. My only real complaint about DA is the same complaint I have with KOTOR which is the combat. I don't really care about the graphics, but I'm not going to turn down better graphics. And of course a new story sounds good.

[Sidney]

AlanC9 wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

You guys just can't take the fact that Bioware blend genres. You want hardcore rpg's and that's fine with me, we all have our own tastes. But please stop with the elitist dogmatic bull**** about action/rpg blends automatically being inferior pure rpg's.

Furthermore the presence of action elements does not imply less focus on story as proven by Mass Effect 2 which had way more story and dialogues than it's predecessor.

They ARE inferior to pure RPG's as RPG's That is OBVIOUS! How can they not be? They limit your choises, your freedom and guides you along a predetermined path. If you like that, fine, I prefer freedom.

How do action elements limit choices, again?

It limits his choice to feel special for playing a game.

Seriously, for all the whining about ME2 they can't even begin to quantify how it has less choice than the much sacred BG2. BG2 has a predetermined plot line, you have some variablity in the first part about order and then the Bohdi/Theives Guild thing before you get to spellhold but from that point on the game is pretty much on rails with limited choices. That's why people fondly recall Athkala and no one much misses the Underdark parts.

You get choice in Bethesda games but it is the choice of wandering around a world with no purpose and no story to make you care about the infintie # of tiny quests to do.

[Sidney]

snfonseka wrote...

If the main char is voiced then there will be less dialog options with less choices !!!!

ME2 didn't have notably less dialog at any point than did DAO. You get your basic Bioware 4 dialog options with the additional persuade/paragon and intimidate/renegade options if relevant so the choices are the same.

[Valmy]

disenfranchised wrote...

I think this article sums up my feelings on Dragon Age 2 announcement.

http://www.escapistm...ryone-Except-Me

Where the publishers are pushing the market, is not where I'm headed. I think there are more than a few people like me.

I do admit we have to have a certain amount of flexibility to tolerate mainstream things in our games going forward.  The days where Bioware could publish a more niche like title like perhaps BG was might be gone as that article suggests.  If there really are indie titles that are more hardcore I would enjoy that.  I have not been a big fan of the RPG elements or combat systems ever since BG.  

I was a little annoyed with how monty haul and over the top BG2 was but man I should have been happy with what I had.  KOTOR and Mass Effect have been incredibly unbalanced and poorly designed from a RPG and combat point of view.  At least ME2 required some effort and strategy even if it went much farther to the shooter side of the force.

Dragon Age actually went in a much improved direction and I am pretty nervous there will be steps backwards but I will be looking to see what elements of the combat system changed.  But Bioware has never been good at the combat/RPG side.  THey are always about the dialog and characters and even Jade Empire and Mass Effect was great at those and that is why I will continue to play Bioware products no matter how mainstream they get so long as those elements are maintained.  I can tolerate being mainstreamed so long as that continues.

Man Matrix games are horribly buggy and poorly designed and almost unplayable.  I wish they really were a good successor to Talonsoft.  Ah man all those days I enjoyed pushing my 18th Brunswick Irregulars in historical uniforms around a map while period music plays...

[chaos32679]

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened?

Would LOVE to get a Bioware answer to this one...

[Valmy]

Sidney wrote...

Seriously, for all the whining about ME2 they can't even begin to quantify how it has less choice than the much sacred BG2.

The whining about ME2 can be really tiresome because alot of people do not quantify why they do not like it.  It is more like an insane rant where they insult us who do like it and rant about things that make no sense.  Complete with meaningless statements about "dumbed down" and how evil Bioware is.

When there are actual thoughtful and intelligent critics of ME2 I usually find our opinions about ME2 are not that different even though I am a big fan of the game.  We just have different priorities about what is more important in a game.