200 réponses à ce sujet

[Valmy]

chaos32679 wrote...

The thing is, Dragon Age Origins got all kinds of attention and kudos for going against that trend. So...what happened?

Would LOVE to get a Bioware answer to this one...

What is this based on?  Solely based on Awakenings or?

How do we know the trend has been broken with DA2?

You could be right and the initial hype is reason for concern but people sure seem eager to make final judgement without facts based solely on marketing cliches.

[RPGmom28]

In short: I despised the Awakening interaction. Totally off-putting. I replay DA:O over and over, but ignore Awakening and wish I hadn't bought it. Origins made you care about the characters and feel as though they were your character's true companions. You could create your own character concept from scratch and run with it. I didn't buy Darkspawn Chronicles because I was warned by other fans of Bioware who have been longstanding friends that it was boring hack and slash. Time will tell, as they say, with DA2.

[Green Monster]

I think that the mechanics of the awakening system were an improvement. The content of the dialog was not as good as DAO but I though how it was delivered was better. I did not like waiting to go back to camp to initiate important chats, it seems more natural if they come up more often when wandering around.

[zahra]

druid126 wrote...

I can quite honestly say, if DA2 uses the same conversation system as Awakenings I will not buy it. Awakenings was a huge disappointment to me. In the posts you linked to, David Gaider makes the point of "why do you feel you have the right to ask personal questions to your companions is it because you could before?" but I think you have the right to ask your companions anything at anytime, whether it be inappropriate or not, because it's a *role-play* game.

I could ask David Gaider right now about his childhood or what his favourite colour is. I could ask him how much he weighs. The difference is he might not respond to me, as I am nobody to him, and if he were to respond to me he might even be angry about it. But I can still *ask* him. It's the same in Dragon Age. I can and should be able to ask any character personal questions even if they choose not to respond back to me or if they'd get angry at me for asking.

I don't like the idea of waiting for a companion to have a mark over his head so he can talk to me. I don't like clicking a keg so Oghren can belch at me and make a drunken joke but that's it. I should be able to, through the use of dialogue, persuade him to open up about his troubled family life. Maybe, just by talking through (like in real life), I could make a difference. That sort of finesse is only done with a "laundry list" of questions. It's certainly what *I* liked about DA:O and what I hated about Awakening.

Giving a few presents to a man who would see me dead shouldn't make him my new best friend! How rediculous was that? I gave a few trinkets to Nathaniel and suddenly he loved me... I don't get how that makes more sense than talking it out with him.

I agree with all of the above.

I played Awakening a few times, then stopped as the lack of conversation bored me. It was enjoyable, sure. But in a hack em and slash em in many colorful ways kinda way, rather than what I felt when I was playing DA:O. If they change it to Awakening-style convo, I won't be interested in purchasing it actually.

[Aradace]

Azriel77 wrote...

"Executive Producer Mark Darrah. “We are amplifying the things that made
Dragon Age: Origins such a huge success while introducing a more dynamic
combat system, improving the graphics, and telling the most important
story in our world.”"

Read your own poll:
www.bioware.com/_poll/view_poll.html
It clearly shows that The NPCs, dialogs and romances are what made DA:O what it is.  Now you didn't flat out say that you dumbed it down, but when you focus your speach on combat and graphics that sends warning bells going off in my head.  Of course it doesn't help that a developer in another thread said that the dialog/npc interaction in awakening(piece of crap for dialog compared to DAO) is where you are headed for DA2.  On top of that we have a voice actor for our character which just kills making a unique character that was truly yours(you know, one of those things that made the first game GREAT!), I can't help feel that the game is going to be some mass effect fantasy game and that is definetly NOT what I want to play.

I will keep an eye on this and hope I am wrong, but in the end I get the feeling that it will be an inferior product that will strip out the real things that made the first game great and replace it with stuipid action sequences and time sinks(wonder what the DAO version of planet scanning will be) to make the game seem longer than it really is so they can say 100+ hours of game play(when its really like 15 hours).

Sorry if this sounds negative, but Bioware has a history of this type of behavior, mass effect to mass effect 2, dragon age and then awakening(even though it was an expansion, it shows the direction its headed).  Etc.

Edit:
Ok, found the thread where a developer is talking about how Awakening is
where they want to go with DA2.  Just skip to anywhere you see a bioware
response and read it.  Not very encouraging:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/127/index/1761467/1

"....Mass Effect Fantasy game...." Hmmm Yea, you had me sold at that idea.  Especially the part where you said something about how our main character is actually getting a voice this time around...DA 1 was a PoS in my opinion.  Was great to playthrough once or twice but beyond that, I quickly got bored of it.  Now, if they make DA2 more like ME and ME2, then Im all about that.  When I first started hearing about Dragon Age back before it was released, I was under the assumption that it was going to be like Mass Effect in alot of ways.  To which, I was quickly, and "Massively" (no pun intended) disappointed that it WASNT. 

Let me go over the things I actually hated about Dragon Age:

1.) The combat - I felt like I was playing an MMO.  Which, isnt bad per se but the way it was implemented made me feel somehow...."Disconnected".  Polish it up a bit for DA2 and I may do more than rent it when it comes out

2.) Alistair - Yes, he gets his own field lol.....When a video game character makes it into Game Informers "Top 10 most annoying characters" list, you know you did something wrong with that character....HORRIBLY wrong.  I cant recall any point when I played that I DIDNT want to strangle the life out of Alistair.  And after my first playthrough, I never used him except for the cases in which I absolutely had to.  Yes, he is that annoying IMO.

3.) DA: Awakening - As it is technically part of the Dragon Age experience it can, and will be included in this list lol.  I can honestly and wholeheartily say that there wasnt ANYTHING I liked about DA: Awakening.  It sucked, plain and simple.  LOUSY character interaction (on all fronts) and most of the so called "new" characters were regurgitated (spelling?) personalities from the first game just with a different skin and or class over them. The perfect example of this is Anders....Acts almost identical to Alistair in every way.  Hell, he even LOOKS like Alistair.

4.) The fact that your character had no voice other than combat (which to me DOES NOT COUNT lol)  Sorry, but "stoic" heroes lost their charm 10-15 years ago.

5.) The love scenes - And no, by that I dont mean there should have been full frontal nudity.  On the contrairy, it should have been done more along the lines of ME 1.  It was tasteful, yet "sensual" enough to sate your curiosity.  Where as the way it was done in DA was like they were full on dry humping with their clothes on. 

6.) Liliana - Not quite as annoying as Alistair but at the same time, any person (ficticious or otherwise) that tries to, whether they realize it or not, push their "religion" onto others is under no circumstance a good character IMO.  If I wanted religion shoved down my throat at any point, I'd let the Jahova's Witnesses and such actually speak their piece when the come to my front door instead of slamming it in their faces.

7.) The fact that crossbows and daggers initially came into the game "broken".  Even after the patches, arent the crossbows still broken? (confirm?)

And believe it or not, there are actually a few things I LIKED about DA:

1.) The story - Especially at the beginning.  I actually found myself swearing at Loghain under my breath calling him a "Cowardly son of a -explicitive-" when he withdrew his troops.  And then actually laughing and saying "You got what was coming to you, you f&^#ing ******" when I got the option to kill him later on.

2.) Morrigan - And no not because of her outfit (or as some may put it lack thereof).  But because, rather, that Claudia Black did a hell of a nice job on the character in all aspects IMO.

3.) The "Deathblow" animations - Especially after I got my hands on the PC version of the game and installed the forced Deathblow mod.  If there was an option in the "vanilla" version of the game where you could control how often deathblows occured, that would have been stellar.  Which btw I think should be implemented in DA2

In short, as I digress, if DA2 ends up more like ME or ME2, then I will actually be excited about this game's release.  Hell, may even go so far as to preorder it once I get more details on it.  Buuut, until then, I can only really say "At least they cant screw it up more than they did DA 1" 

[snfonseka]

Sidney wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

If the main char is voiced then there will be less dialog options with less choices !!!!

ME2 didn't have notably less dialog at any point than did DAO. You get your basic Bioware 4 dialog options with the additional persuade/paragon and intimidate/renegade options if relevant so the choices are the same.

I am not taking about the "4 dialog options" that are shown in the screen in a given time. I am refering to the number of dialog options that we can have when considering the entire game. If they use player VO that means more the dialogs they give (in the entire game) there will be more voice recordings to do. So since they need to consider about the size of the game they will limit the dialogs.

[zahra]

Series5Ranger wrote...

Vicious wrote...

You should go see the thread of the people crying about how Shepard socks an innocent female reporter right in the kisser.

Ya like she was "innocent", she ambushes you in the 1st game trying to make you look bad, and in the 2nd, she tries the same tactics., and you either have the choice to slug her or walk away.

I don't think punching a reporter is quite as shocking as a blood sacrifice, sex with a demon, a child morphing into said half-naked demon, prostitution and slavery.

It might make the soccer moms afraid that their children would learn "bad" values, but just punching someone/being a general jackass is mild in comparison to what you see in the news these days. 

[Ecael]

Azriel77 wrote...

Read your own poll:
www.bioware.com/_poll/view_poll.html
It clearly shows that The NPCs, dialogs and romances are what made DA:O what it is.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but Bioware has a history of this type of behavior, mass effect to mass effect 2, dragon age and then awakening(even though it was an expansion, it shows the direction its headed).  Etc.

Read your own post:
http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3065000

Sorry if this sounds negative, but BioWare doubled the amount of dialogue, squadmates and potential romances from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2. Keep complaining about the very thing you want in the game, I'm sure you'll make sense eventually.

Modifié par Ecael, 09 juillet 2010 - 04:12 .

[Knut Are Mykland2]

My dreams for dao 2 combat:

Tactical combat:
1a) being attacked by more then 1 foe makes it easier for each induvidual foe to hit you.
1b) attacking a boss or enemy with more then 1 npc/player makes it easier to hit the boss.
2a) attacking in the back of a target gives a to hit increase and a damage increase.
3a) ranged weapons can never be used in melee, but does ok damage at range.
This makes it harder to fight a pack of weaker foes head on, and rewards tactical play.

New talents i am hopeing for
1. running a warrior and rogue free starting talent. the ability to exspend a constant and fast drain of stamina while getting a huge speed boost.

Mage changes i am hopeing for.
1 buffs: make them reserve mana and spellpower. Make them more powerful depending on the amount of spellpower your willing to use for the buff.
2)dispel: instead of completely negateing all buffs, make them weaken them instead depending on the casters available spellpower.
3) remove cooldowns and include cast times on all active spells.
and keep spell interuption.
4) make spell damage scale more closely to how melee and ranged damage scales.
5) spell resistance changed from a % to a numerical lowering of mage effective spellpower.

Item changes:
1) choose other bonuses then + to attributes. these items really make the game to easy for some, and the lack of em makes it really hard for newcomers that do not grind money for the best items.
Typically the number 1 reason to why the lategame is a breeze in almost all rpgs.
Do not include books with + to attributes, although the greaterst sin in dao was the 21 free points. 7 free levels worth of attributes is alot when you only reach level 22 in a normal game.
2) Potions: make theire cooldown quite significant on the higher difficulties so they cannot be spammed like in dao 1.

Attribute changes i am hopeing for:
1) no talents that uses 1 attribute in place of another, it breaks gameplay in a lot of ways.
2) cunning is used for skills and talents to make it a tradeoff for warriors/ rogues and mages to get the best talents early or to get better at other things.
also make cunning increase crit chance and critical damage bonus for physical weapons, and increase staff damage as much as magic does.

Skill changes i am hopeing for:
1)add open locks and diable traps to skills from talents.
2) allow poison to be applied to ranged weapons and melee weapons. Limit it to 1 poison at a time.

companions:
1) Give them the talents you think are appropriate lorewise but let the player deside the remaining skills/talents and attributes. That means i hope you do not let them autolevel if we get them late.
2) if you ever develop a dog like character again, give him something to compensate for his lack of powerful talents and items. like more attribute points per level or better talents so takeing him with you is not a major combat handicap.

as for closeing words, take a math test and balance the various talents so that it is not blatantly obvious what you can take and what not to take. It might have prevented the speed glory or the shapeshifter disaster.
Such imbalance in the talents makes it very hard for newcomers and very easy for veterans.
which is the main reason to the treads about difficulty.

Modifié par Knut Are Mykland2, 09 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Reverie]

Aradace wrote...


5.) The love scenes - And no, by that I dont mean there should have been full frontal nudity.  On the contrairy, it should have been done more along the lines of ME 1.  It was tasteful, yet "sensual" enough to sate your curiosity.  Where as the way it was done in DA was like they were full on dry humping with their clothes on. 

I have to agree with you on this point. The scenes in DA made me giggle a bit, but the ones in ME didn't. I much preferred ME in that aspect.

I also don't see the problem with a voiced main character (has it been comfirmed?) Maybe it's just me, but I feel more connected when they have a voice.

[Sidney]

snfonseka wrote...

I am not taking about the "4 dialog options" that are shown in the screen in a given time. I am refering to the number of dialog options that we can have when considering the entire game. If they use player VO that means more the dialogs they give (in the entire game) there will be more voice recordings to do. So since they need to consider about the size of the game they will limit the dialogs.

ME had more lines of dialog than BG2, I think they'll be able to put in plenty of dialog. The voice consideration means that you get one character doing the voice as oppoed to the range of characters to play. That is where the limiter comes in.

[Sidney]

zahra wrote...
I agree with all of the above.

I played Awakening a few times, then stopped as the lack of conversation bored me. It was enjoyable, sure. But in a hack em and slash em in many colorful ways kinda way, rather than what I felt when I was playing DA:O. If they change it to Awakening-style convo, I won't be interested in purchasing it actually.

I liked the Awakenings conv methods to a point. It makes sense that you are building a bond with those you travle with - whole Band of Brothers vibe - as opposed to those folks that just sit around the campfire all game long. They need the mix, you can get to (for simple discussion) level 3 trait improvement type approval from anyone who is just sitting about the camp but to put people over the top with the 4th you want them in the trenches with you. That you you can have the basic conversations, learn who people are and understand them like in DAO but still have some difference between your closest allies and taggers-along.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Personally I didn't mind the dialogue in Awakening too much. Perhaps there should have been MORE of it, but they way it was presented wasn't bad. I still felt like I had a handle on who each party member was. One thing they did do in Awakening that wasn't in Origins was have the party banter tell you about the character, rather than just trying to be humorous.

[Haexpane]

Azriel77 wrote...

 
It clearly shows that The NPCs, dialogs and romances are what made DA:O what it is. 

Not to me, I like the COMBAT + Characters + Story combined.

Romances were a nice diversion, but not at all what made the game.  Just like Baldur's Gate 2, what made the game was everything combined.

If I wanted to read a generic story about killing orcs, LOTR is there

[dragon_83]

Haexpane wrote...

Azriel77 wrote...

 
It clearly shows that The NPCs, dialogs and romances are what made DA:O what it is. 

Not to me, I like the COMBAT + Characters + Story combined.

Romances were a nice diversion, but not at all what made the game.  Just like Baldur's Gate 2, what made the game was everything combined.

If I wanted to read a generic story about killing orcs, LOTR is there

Tolkien would be rolling in his grave if he had read this about LOTR. (Especially since the story of Dragon Age is mediocre comparing to the studios older games).

[Aradace]

Reverie wrote...

Aradace wrote...


5.) The love scenes - And no, by that I dont mean there should have been full frontal nudity.  On the contrairy, it should have been done more along the lines of ME 1.  It was tasteful, yet "sensual" enough to sate your curiosity.  Where as the way it was done in DA was like they were full on dry humping with their clothes on. 

I have to agree with you on this point. The scenes in DA made me giggle a bit, but the ones in ME didn't. I much preferred ME in that aspect.

I also don't see the problem with a voiced main character (has it been comfirmed?) Maybe it's just me, but I feel more connected when they have a voice.

Precisely, as I said the silent and "stoic" heroes are SOOOOO overplayed and died back in the 90's.  I have to agree with you that a voiced hero makes me feel more "attached" to him/her.

[AlanC9]

Ecael wrote...
Sorry if this sounds negative, but BioWare doubled the amount of dialogue, squadmates and potential romances from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2.

Ecael, could you link to the data on that? I believe you from way back, but I don't think everyone here will.

[ioruweroulfdkjsf]

All I can say is that I've been soo upset with this god awful news! I guess now all I can do is hope and pray that Dragon Age three becomes Dragon Age and not some crap ass version of Mass Effect like ****ing DA2. Seriously Bioware? Come on people use your brains!

[Davasar]

"Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect's, where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel. An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line's basic intent (like aggressive or sarcastice), so you can focus more on the interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices."



http://social.biowar...index/3054393/5





Posted in another place, but good info.



Apparently, EAoware fired their writers and hired a voice actor.



So...Mass Dragon Effect 2.5 in Marcher 2011, eh?

[McAlternate009]

imported_beer wrote...

As someone who was a regular for five years on the old DAO boards, and watched as the game developed, I'll say this.

EACH time they introduced some new information, we panicked. We panicked hard.

1. "Action clip of combat" : OH NO! DAO will not haz a story. It will be hack and slash.
2. "Clip of Morrigan": OH NO! Snarky female in skimpy clothing- DAO will totally cater only to the male audience.
3. "Sacred ashes trailer": OH NO! Only 3 party members and that DESTROYS old school RPGing or OH NO, combat at the expense of dialogue and story.

Fears are natural and there is only one thing that can allay the fears- the game itself. While it is obvious, there is no game that is perfect for everyone, as one of the people who had panic attacks each time marketing released information on DAO, only to find that the game was actually story rich and involving, I will say :

Marketing targets a very narrow audience as compared to the game. Unless you are of that target audience, what they say will probably not interest you. In fact, it may scare the crap out of you. Ignore it. Focus here. Ask your questions politely, discuss, make friends and see what you discover here - for it will often be the sort of thing that may not be worth "marketing".

Wisdom here for those who seek it...

[Zanderat]

Aradace wrote...

Reverie wrote...

Aradace wrote...


5.) The love scenes - And no, by that I dont mean there should have been full frontal nudity.  On the contrairy, it should have been done more along the lines of ME 1.  It was tasteful, yet "sensual" enough to sate your curiosity.  Where as the way it was done in DA was like they were full on dry humping with their clothes on. 

I have to agree with you on this point. The scenes in DA made me giggle a bit, but the ones in ME didn't. I much preferred ME in that aspect.

I also don't see the problem with a voiced main character (has it been comfirmed?) Maybe it's just me, but I feel more connected when they have a voice.

Precisely, as I said the silent and "stoic" heroes are SOOOOO overplayed and died back in the 90's.  I have to agree with you that a voiced hero makes me feel more "attached" to him/her.

You do know that the Warden wasn't mute?  Right?  Right?

[Kalfear]

Valmy wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Seriously, for all the whining about ME2 they can't even begin to quantify how it has less choice than the much sacred BG2.

The whining about ME2 can be really tiresome because alot of people do not quantify why they do not like it.  It is more like an insane rant where they insult us who do like it and rant about things that make no sense.  Complete with meaningless statements about "dumbed down" and how evil Bioware is.

When there are actual thoughtful and intelligent critics of ME2 I usually find our opinions about ME2 are not that different even though I am a big fan of the game.  We just have different priorities about what is more important in a game.

Valmy, the problem with what you said is for 2 months after release all people did was qualify why they didnt like ME2.

EVERY FREAKING POST was a complaint about ME2 on its forums and posters like you just buried your heads and ignored what was said and when the complaints wore down and people moved on you and yours came in with force acting like no one had ever complained about ME2.

ME2 was a huge failure PR wise. Sure it sold a huge amount of copies but its post release reveiws were almost all negative in nature and many many many of the million plus ME1 fans voiced their outrage about ME2. Others just walked away and will never be heard from again!

So please, leave you BS spin elsewhere, people have said indepth what they dont like about ME2. Hel;l if you close your mouth and hit link in my sig you will see over 50 comments on whats wrong with ME2 before the pro ME2 spin crowd arrived!

Gaider said combat will not change so im feeling abit better now. Now I just need someone I TRUST (that list getting smaller cause of ME2 as well) to say the stories and interactions will be just as deep or deeper in DA2.

[Kalfear]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Sorry if this sounds negative, but BioWare doubled the amount of dialogue, squadmates and potential romances from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2.

Ecael, could you link to the data on that? I believe you from way back, but I don't think everyone here will.

Quanity doesnt equal quality.

ME1 Quality
DA:O Quality

ME2 Toilet paper