208 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheese Elemental]

Left Liara for Tali because it's clear that while Shepard does owe her his life, she's being consumed by the desire for revenge and might become a far worse person than the Shadow Broker. There's nothing left of that relationship.

[Nerevar-as]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Left Liara for Tali because it's clear that while Shepard does owe her his life, she's being consumed by the desire for revenge and might become a far worse person than the Shadow Broker. There's nothing left of that relationship.

That´s something I´d like the new LI to call Shepard out. If they go through something similar to what Liara did, can they expect help or just a "you´re no longer who I cared about, bye".
Liara worse than SB? Really? Why do people think SB is a not so bad guy? He seems to have as much of a conscience as TIM, that is,. not at all.

Thank you to the people who answered my question.

[Nightwriter]

Nerevar-as wrote...

The trap I mean is that they tried so hard to have the player go to another LI without actually telling the former it is over that it looks they are looking for something to happen in ME3 rather than being shippers for the new ones.

Oh, I see.

Well I can hardly help it if it's a trap. I like the new LI more. Can't change that.

The question is, must I totally disrupt my game continuity to avoid this trap?

[Nerevar-as]

No. Just be ready to accept the consequences if there are any.

Would you have gone to the new LI if they had written better the reunions with the old?

[mosor]

Graz73 wrote...


The 2 years of being dead is another reason to think your former relationships are now over.  They've already greaved your death and moved on.

Problem is that it has been 2 years for them. You weren't conscious during that time, so for you it may seem like a few weeks.If sheppard loved them, then it's obvious he would still have feelings for them, it's been too short a time from his perspective..

They may have tried to move on, may have been shocked to see you, but from at least ashely/kaiden's followup emails, it's clear they haven't fully moved on.

As for staying loyal. It's simple. That's the character you like best and the character you want your sheppard to be with. Just because the new LI's dominate the scene in ME, doesn't mean these new LI's are superior. It's just a matter of taste.

Modifié par mosor, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:13 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Why stay loyal...



Because getting kicked in the balls is painful, at least that is what I heard.

[Nightwriter]

Nerevar-as wrote...

No. Just be ready to accept the consequences if there are any.
Would you have gone to the new LI if they had written better the reunions with the old?

I honestly don't know. And we'll never find out now, will we?

I also believe that the romances could've been written better in game one, and that this has something to do with it, as well.

Sometimes it is hard to separate the character from their romance. We may say we don't like this specific character as much when what we really mean is we didn't like their romance as much.

[Nerevar-as]

It´s still a videogame. There was another BW one where you could get all the romance lines in one go of you waited to the last moment (can´t remember which one). DA had the right pace if you didn´t (ab)use gifts. ME was mission-dialogue-mission-...still haven´t seen how it is in ME2, but seems the same from the nonromance talks.

In fact I like most the ME2 characters (don´t care about Jacob, though), just have reasons to stay away from romancing them.

[Raizo]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I do blame the writers, sorry if it came across otherwise. But if you saw the trap and went with it then I just don´t understand. No attack intended.
I leave getting mad at people for things more important than a hobby, but somehow it seems I´m always angry in my posts.

The thing is, I saw the trap, I knew it was a trap and I still left my ME1 LI for another woman. I knew the moment I spoke to Ashley in Horizon that it was over between her and Shepard ( because her reaction is to strong to be interpretaed as anyhing else ) but I also knew that it would come back to bite me in the ass in a major way for ME3. I am afraid that my ME2 LI is not going to be done proper justice in ME3. Heck I don't even know if she will be back for ME3.

[V-rex]

I had no problem staying loyal to Ashley in Mass Effect 2 for a number of reasons:

1. She had far more personality and characterisation, with flaws and likeable qualities and actual character development than any of the others in Mass Effect 2 (My opinion anyway, if you liked others I respect that) and just generally I felt like there was an actual chemistry there that was lacked in the sequel. True she wasn't perfect and had some trust issues when it came to aliens (though as anyone on the Ashley thread can attest, she's no racist) but if you went the extra mile with the dialouge you could get her to very much trust aliens and the council in particular.
Plus I once timed it, one conversation with Ashley lasted eight minutes which was the EXACT same length of all the romance dialouge and final scene with Miranda or Tali, literally an entire compilation of dialouge from end of loyalty mission to final scene is over in the amount of time it took for one fleshed out conversation with Ashley.
Generally it just seems like in Mass Effect 1 they were better characterised.

2. The meeting on Horizon from Ashley's side wasn't unreasonable. Of course she'd be hurt and confused that the love of her life returns from the dead after two years, now working for a shady terrorist organisation and is talking to her casually like nothing ever happened. She may leave upset and angry but I didn't fault her for that and later on she does send an email which apologises for what she says as well as expressing her confidence that Shepard can get the job done, regret that she can't come with him and hope that they can be together at a later stage. She clearly still loves Shepard and in the email it's clear how much she suffered a lot after losing him.
As far as I was concerned, that meant the game still very much considered the relationship 'on' and I decided for characterisation and for personal preferance that I would stay the course. I stand by that.

3. It fits characterisation. It says a lot more positive things about the Male Shepard if he spends his last moment pensivley looking at the picture of the love of his life and is unsure of the future ahead. It's the closest he ever really gets to being emotionally sensitive and I liked that scene for just that reason, to me there was much more emotional depth in the idea of Shepard and Ashley being a galaxy apart and seperated by a two year gap both living different lives and heading towards an uncertain future but both still clearly very much in love and holding out hope that just one thing can go right for them.

So yeah, that's my opinion or the way I interpreted it and for me at least in story I decided I much prefered faithful Shepard who was ready to stick by the woman he loves even after all that happened between them then I did the idea of Shepard just leaping into bed with the first chick that winks at him for seemingly no reason other than that he can't handle the fact that Ashley had a perfectly reasonably emotional response to the shock of seeing him again now working for Cerberus (especially given she apologised for it later).

So I can see why other people might view their version of Shepard a different way, but for me, but for me I think I prefer the romance my Shepard has only one woman in his life and her name is Operations Chief Ashley Williams. I can understand the appeal of the charming Tali, sexy Miranda or deadly yet sympathetic Jack but personally I had no problem staying with the one I had and I felt I had motivation enough to do it.

That said I still understand that it's just a game and I don't mix my in game relationships with my real life ones, I figure I'm already nerdy enough without adding that to the mix.

Modifié par V-rex, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:30 .

[Nightwriter]

You really think Ashley has more personality, characterization, flaws, likable qualities, and actual character development than such individuals as, say, Jack?

[Jenova65]

Nightwriter wrote...

You really think Ashley has more personality, characterization, flaws, likable qualities, and actual character development than such individuals as, say, Jack?

I think Ashley is a lot better than Jack as a female gamer, tbh! The reason is that as a femshep you can talk to Ash and get to know about her and she is your friend through the game (save OR sacrifice) With Jack the ONLY way to get her to open up properly is to have a romantic relationship with her, she is pretty much a b*tch, and tells you basically to stop talking to her.....
So yeah, Ash does have more to offer, honestly as a woman, Jack - not that likeable at all!
OT - I have tried the Thane romance (but tbh only for the achievement) and I have no problems staying faithful to Kaidan. I think Shepard's dialogue is atrocious on Horizon, he tells her that it destroyed him thinking he was dead and she blows him off with 'not wanting to open up old wounds'? WTF? I'm just surprised he isn't more hacked off.

[Nerevar-as]

Ash: speciesm(sp?) really not justified, family person, religious when in humanity it seems the new in the locker thing, and trying to redeem her family name when the Williams sholud be given an apology.

Jack: one of the most broken characters I´ve ever seen, but that´s kind all she has. Stopped talking to her when I realized that was the romance path. I won´t do it even with my "free" Shepard though, I felt as if I was taking advantadge of how emotionally fragile she is.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:10 .

[Cheese Elemental]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Ash: speciesm(sp?) really not justified, family person, religious when in humanity it seems the new in the locker thing, and trying to redeem her family name when the Williams sholud be given an apology.

I think she said that people find her faith wierd because she lives and works in space most of the time. Apart from that off-hand comment, we don't have much information on the state of religion in ME (although I heard that Zen Buddhism has become a major religion).

[Jenova65]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Ash: speciesm(sp?) really not justified, family person, religious when in humanity it seems the new in the locker thing, and trying to redeem her family name when the Williams sholud be given an apology.

Jack: one of the most broken characters I´ve ever seen, but that´s kind all she has. Stopped talking to her when I realized that was the romance path. I won´t do it even with my "free" Shepard though, I felt as if I was taking advantadge of how emotionally fragile she is.

Yeah, she is almost childlike in her vulnerability, as you say a very 'broken', character. And not even accessible as a female gamer, by that I mean you can't be friends with her not really (you could with Ash) and yet it would do her more good tbh!

[Nightwriter]

Jack's romance-exclusive nature is just a game oversight. Same as Garrus and his endless calibrations.

As a character I like Jack better (though it's a tough call).

[V-rex]

Nightwriter wrote...

You really think Ashley has more personality, characterization, flaws, likable qualities, and actual character development than such individuals as, say, Jack?

I certainly agree that Jack has a lot of flaws but for me at least Ashley was a more 'humanised' example. I mean yes don't get me wrong, Jack was certainly interesting and if I had been going to pick a romance it would have been her just because of how touching the romance scene with her was, but overall I'd say Ashley was arguably the most realistic of the games cast, certainly very believable anyway. Because her major flaw (distrust of aliens due to her family's history) was just one part of her personality which was otherwise, if you ask me anyway, quite likeable. Toughened but likeable. And of course, she can turn that around and change her view when it comes to aliens.
Meanwhile Jack's flaws and tragic backstory seemed to be the basis of her character and to Bioware's credit she was certainly very well characterised in that regard but still felt slightly less 'real' because of it. I mean yes she was still greatly characterised and well written but she just felt too much like just a well written character instead of an actual person. Like you spend so long breaking down the toughened barrier that hides the soft scared person underneath but, in my own opinion, they don't spend enough time with the soft person underneath. Still, I suppose there's always Mass Effect 3 and I'd be interested to see how much Jack would have changed after she finally let down her powerful emotional barrier.

That's sort of the main difference in character developments between Ashley and Jack now that I think of it, with Jack the whole romance is building up to her major character development whereas with Ashley the character development is only one part of it and you get time to hang out with the new 'converted' Ashley afterwards.
I mean with something like this it's entirely subjective as to which you like more but for me I guess I preferred the latter.

I don't deny that the other romances had a lot of personality in Mass Effect 2 (in fact I actually rate Jack as the highest in that regard) I just think generally that the romance with Ashley was better put together overall, personal preferances I guess.
So yeah, I would have gone with Jack if I was to make a choice out of everyone in Mass Effect 2 but personally I preferred Ashley so at least for my canon playthroughs that's who I stuck with.

I hope I haven't come across as dismissive or rude in this post (or my above text wall) I just wanted to say it as I see it and I meant no offence.

EDIT: So anyway the main thing to take back from this is out of Ashley or Jack I pick Ashley but Jack is a very close second.

Modifié par V-rex, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:09 .

[Icinix]

Loyal to Ashley because hard core space marine has stamina.



Can't wait to get my little energiser bunny back in ME3.

[Nightwriter]

V-rex wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

You really think Ashley has more personality, characterization, flaws, likable qualities, and actual character development than such individuals as, say, Jack?

I certainly agree that Jack has a lot of flaws but for me at least Ashley was a more 'humanised' example. I mean yes don't get me wrong, Jack was certainly interesting and if I had been going to pick a romance it would have been her just because of how touching the romance scene with her was, but overall I'd say Ashley was arguably the most realistic of the games cast, certainly very believable anyway. Because her major flaw (distrust of aliens due to her family's history) was just one part of her personality which was otherwise, if you ask me anyway, quite likeable. Toughened but likeable. And of course, she can turn that around and change her view when it comes to aliens.
Meanwhile Jack's flaws and tragic backstory seemed to be the basis of her character and to Bioware's credit she was certainly very well characterised in that regard but still felt slightly less 'real' because of it. I mean yes she was still greatly characterised and well written but she just felt too much like just a well written character instead of an actual person. Like you spend so long breaking down the toughened barrier that hides the soft scared person underneath but, in my own opinion, they don't spend enough time with the soft person underneath. Still, I suppose there's always Mass Effect 3 and I'd be interested to see how much Jack would have changed after she finally let down her powerful emotional barrier.

That's sort of the main difference in character developments between Ashley and Jack now that I think of it, with Jack the whole romance is building up to her major character development whereas with Ashley the character development is only one part of it and you get time to hang out with the new 'converted' Ashley afterwards.
I mean with something like this it's entirely subjective as to which you like more but for me I guess I preferred the latter.

I don't deny that the other romances had a lot of personality in Mass Effect 2 (in fact I actually rate Jack as the highest in that regard) I just think generally that the romance with Ashley was better put together overall, personal preferances I guess.
So yeah, I would have gone with Jack if I was to make a choice out of everyone in Mass Effect 2 but personally I preferred Ashley so at least for my canon playthroughs that's who I stuck with.

I hope I haven't come across as dismissive or rude in this post (or my above text wall) I just wanted to say it as I see it and I meant no offence.

EDIT: So anyway the main thing to take back from this is out of Ashley or Jack I pick Ashley but Jack is a very close second.

I think Ashley's character benefited from how early in the game she was introduced. In addition I think a lot of the ME2 romances suffered from lack of content (I think there should have been more conversations with Jack).

I also think Jack should've had a friendship path. That would've changed the way people see her. If you're romancing her you feel really involved with her character and you love her. If you're not romancing her you feel very distant from her.

With Ashley it was different. I try not to judge characters based on implementation, but hers was better implemented and there's no point denying it.

[Barquiel]

Nightwriter wrote...

I also think Jack should've had a friendship path. That would've changed the way people see her. If you're romancing her you feel really involved with her character and you love her. If you're not romancing her you feel very distant from her.

To be fair, all LIs have very little content if you don't romance them.
Jacob and Miranda have the meetings...okay. But friendship paths? not really

[Fiery Phoenix]

V-rex wrote...
*snip*

Would it be strange if I said I love you?

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 11 juillet 2010 - 02:01 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Barquiel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I also think Jack should've had a friendship path. That would've changed the way people see her. If you're romancing her you feel really involved with her character and you love her. If you're not romancing her you feel very distant from her.

To be fair, all LIs have very little content if you don't romance them.
Jacob and Miranda have the meetings...okay. But friendship paths? not really

But Miranda had a good friendship path!

Also looking back at it. Liara, my favorite character. Her friendship path isn't that great again.

[Barquiel]

Lizardviking wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I also think Jack should've had a friendship path. That would've changed the way people see her. If you're romancing her you feel really involved with her character and you love her. If you're not romancing her you feel very distant from her.

To be fair, all LIs have very little content if you don't romance them.
Jacob and Miranda have the meetings...okay. But friendship paths? not really

But Miranda had a good friendship path!

Also looking back at it. Liara, my favorite character. Her friendship path isn't that great again.

I don't know...
She has more non-romance content than Tali, Garrus or Jack (early recruitement, team meetings, plot relevance), but it could be more
You're right, ME1 isn't better.

Dragon Age (Morrigan!) has very good friendships imo.

Modifié par Barquiel, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:29 .