922 réponses à ce sujet

[TiaraBlade]

I have to admit that I'm not happy about having to be a human (I'd rather play an elf) but I'm willing to give Bioware a huge benefit of the doubt since they are so awesome.

[Taiyama]

Riona45 wrote...

Except you didn't.

True. I did notice it and comment on it, but by "ignore" I meant that I would not address it directly. I'm trying to keep things civil.

Riona45 wrote...

It didn't for me either, but it definitely didn't ADD to the experience, and I'd prefer a character who will actually emote as often as the other characters.

Depending on what exactly we mean by "emote", I agree. I do want the PCs to make the appropriate facial gestures based on what you choose and what is happening. I just don't want a voiced PC.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

To me, having my character do something I don't want them to do is far more jarring than having to imagine my character doing something they aren't doing.

I wasn't arguing for characters that do things you don't want them to do. 

But it's inevitable when you start voicing characters and using dialogue wheels.  It happened to me dozens of times in the mass effect games, and several times in Alpha Protocol.  Unless you roleplay as one of the few personalities they allot for the character, you're constantly going to be running into walls of "Well actually my character wouldn't say it like that".

With Dragon Age, the text is the same and the intent can even be similar, but the way the character conveys the words can be whatever I want.  They can use any silly little voice I imagine, because there's no actual voice there defining how that character is saying it.  Similarly, facial expressions can be something similar.  An easy example is one scene in Awakening when you walk up to Amaranthine under siege by Darkspawn and your warden has the "Sadface" on.  What if my warden was a grizzled veteran of countless battles?  WELL HES GOT HIS SADFACE ON ANYWAY.  

The more Bioware defines a scene on their end (voicing, facial expressions, body language etc) the less control the end user has and therefore the less roleplaying possibilities.  

[dmgdougshow]

Taiyama wrote...

Depending on what exactly we mean by "emote", I agree. I do want the PCs to make the appropriate facial gestures based on what you choose and what is happening. I just don't want a voiced PC.

Amen!

[MDarwin]

Riona45 wrote...

Taiyama wrote...


Television is different. With television/movies, you are a passive participant.

Wow, I had no idea of that until you told me.  Everyday you learn something new!

Anyway, what I was getting what was slight criticism of the "I fill in the gaps with my imagination" argument I keep seeing repeated.  In a world with fully rendered characters who speak *and* emote, it's jarring, visually to have the PC the only one who, for the most part, just stares ahead blankly.  Yeah, you can just imagine everything...but that would also be true if the character was a stick figure dropped into the DA world, and who would want that?

Sounds like that you never expierenced (maybe because of age? *Shrugs*) the old P&P adventure. Where you had no choice, but to use your imagination.

Which is good for your brain (as longest you know to get back to the reality of your life). As a complete VO of the PC compares to me like "fast food for your brain". Not always healthy is it?

If you read Lord of the Rings or books from Terry Brooks, you will need a lot of imagination truly,  to enjoy them.

[dmgdougshow]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

To me, having my character do something I don't want them to do is far more jarring than having to imagine my character doing something they aren't doing.

I wasn't arguing for characters that do things you don't want them to do. 

But it's inevitable when you start voicing characters and using dialogue wheels.  It happened to me dozens of times in the mass effect games, and several times in Alpha Protocol.  Unless you roleplay as one of the few personalities they allot for the character, you're constantly going to be running into walls of "Well actually my character wouldn't say it like that".

With Dragon Age, the text is the same and the intent can even be similar, but the way the character conveys the words can be whatever I want.  They can use any silly little voice I imagine, because there's no actual voice there defining how that character is saying it.  Similarly, facial expressions can be something similar.  An easy example is one scene in Awakening when you walk up to Amaranthine under siege by Darkspawn and your warden has the "Sadface" on.  What if my warden was a grizzled veteran of countless battles?  WELL HES GOT HIS SADFACE ON ANYWAY.  

The more Bioware defines a scene on their end (voicing, facial expressions, body language etc) the less control the end user has and therefore the less roleplaying possibilities.  

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Riona45]

Taiyama wrote...



True. I did notice it and comment on it, but by "ignore" I meant that I would not address it directly. I'm trying to keep things civil.

Then maybe next time don't attempt to educate me on the bloody obvious, please.  I'm not 5 years old.

[Riona45]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

But it's inevitable when you start voicing characters and using dialogue wheels.  It happened to me dozens of times in the mass effect games, and several times in Alpha Protocol.  Unless you roleplay as one of the few personalities they allot for the character, you're constantly going to be running into walls of "Well actually my character wouldn't say it like that".

That happens with "regular" dialogue options, too.  There have been many times where I wanted to say something but the option simply wasn't there. 

[Riona45]

MDarwin wrote...

Sounds like that you never expierenced (maybe because of age? *Shrugs*) the old P&P adventure. Where you had no choice, but to use your imagination.

Wrong.  And what the hell do you mean by "because of age?"  You have no idea how old I am.  I just have different preferences for video games because I understand that they are vastly different from P&P games.  It doesn't mean I lack imagination, like you were trying to imply.

Twerp.

[Taiyama]

Riona45 wrote...

Taiyama wrote...



True. I did notice it and comment on it, but by "ignore" I meant that I would not address it directly. I'm trying to keep things civil.

Then maybe next time don't attempt to educate me on the bloody obvious, please.  I'm not 5 years old.

Let's keep things civil now, my lady. No need to take such umbrage. Like I mentioned in the actual post, it was just a silly rant of mine explaining my views about it. I did not intend to imply that you were ignorant about such matters. Now, can we keep this discussion productive and return to the topic at hand? Or will you continue to insist on pursuing this? Because I will not remark any further on this no matter if you respond to this.

[Riona45]

Taiyama wrote...

Let's keep things civil now, my lady. No need to take such umbrage. Like I mentioned in the actual post, it was just a silly rant of mine explaining my views about it. I did not intend to imply that you were ignorant about such matters. Now, can we keep this discussion productive and return to the topic at hand? Or will you continue to insist on pursuing this? Because I will not remark any further on this no matter if you respond to this.

So then, just drop it.  If you don't want to talk to me anymore, don't tsk-tsk me in a patronizing manner either.

Modifié par Riona45, 10 juillet 2010 - 04:35 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

But it's inevitable when you start voicing characters and using dialogue wheels.  It happened to me dozens of times in the mass effect games, and several times in Alpha Protocol.  Unless you roleplay as one of the few personalities they allot for the character, you're constantly going to be running into walls of "Well actually my character wouldn't say it like that".

That happens with "regular" dialogue options, too.  There have been many times where I wanted to say something but the option simply wasn't there. 

Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  The main reason people are upset however is that they are taking away options from the player for the sake of adding voices or more involved cinematics.... really I'd prefer they just skipped the pretense of still offering us choices and provided a character with a very defined personality, motives and what not (like movies or other cinematic games) instead of pretending like we're still playing a role playing game of the same caliber, just different.  I quite enjoyed The Witcher, but I was never under any illusions that Geralt was MY character... I did get to make some decisions sure, but it made sense within the context of the story. Geralt had amnesia and thus needed to define his place in the world to regain his memories.  Really, that was an excellent excuse to give the player control over his decisions, because they had established him as someone who had no (or very little) predisposition to certain beliefs, motivations and what not. 

[Riona45]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

Of course, it'd also bother me less if it wasn't a sequel where I had some expectations on how it would be.  I came here expecting a sequel to one of my favourite games ever and I got something I'm not remotely interested in playing.

[Taiyama]

Riona45 wrote...

Taiyama wrote...

Let's keep things civil now, my lady. No need to take such umbrage. Like I mentioned in the actual post, it was just a silly rant of mine explaining my views about it. I did not intend to imply that you were ignorant about such matters. Now, can we keep this discussion productive and return to the topic at hand? Or will you continue to insist on pursuing this? Because I will not remark any further on this no matter if you respond to this.

So then, just drop it.  If you don't want to talk to me anymore, don't tsk-tsk me in a patronizing manner either.

I know I said I wouldn't remark on this further, but I just wanted to jump in and apologize if I seemed patronizing. That was certainly not my intention. I'm just sort of a nerd prone to using big words and trying to act like a gentleman (which apparently backfired here, eh?).

[Eledion7]

LenaMarie wrote...

Sounds good! I dont care about stupid elves or dwaves, the only people who are whining are the grumpy old geezers who dont like modernization and games that actually sell.

Indeed, well said 

[bigbubss]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

Of course, it'd also bother me less if it wasn't a sequel where I had some expectations on how it would be.  I came here expecting a sequel to one of my favourite games ever and I got something I'm not remotely interested in playing.

Well that may have been a little bit your fault for having such high expations. I heard about DA:2 and all i expected was an amazing game. Sure i hoped for some things but you have to remember the game they put out is gonna be the game they put out. Im just sayin ....

Modifié par bigbubss, 10 juillet 2010 - 04:52 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

bigbubss wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

Of course, it'd also bother me less if it wasn't a sequel where I had some expectations on how it would be.  I came here expecting a sequel to one of my favourite games ever and I got something I'm not remotely interested in playing.

Well that may have been a little bit your fault for having such high expations. I heard about DA:2 and all i expected was an amazing game. Sure i hoped for some things but you have to remember the game they put out is gonna be the game they put out. Im just sayin ....

My expectations weren't high.  I was just expecting them to continue what they started.

I didn't think it was too much to ask them to continue doing what they're doing. Especially when DA:O's marketing focused around how it was bringing back classic RPG"s and going against common trends in the game industry by providing classic gameplay.  

[Kail Ashton]

Ohohoho i'm quite giddy for DA2 now, assuming the art direction & charecter models with the cinematic quality improved as promised, August 17th is my pre-order if you pull this off Bioware

[bigbubss]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

bigbubss wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

Of course, it'd also bother me less if it wasn't a sequel where I had some expectations on how it would be.  I came here expecting a sequel to one of my favourite games ever and I got something I'm not remotely interested in playing.

Well that may have been a little bit your fault for having such high expations. I heard about DA:2 and all i expected was an amazing game. Sure i hoped for some things but you have to remember the game they put out is gonna be the game they put out. Im just sayin ....

My expectations weren't high.  I was just expecting them to continue what they started.

I didn't think it was too much to ask them to continue doing what they're doing. Especially when DA:O's marketing focused around how it was bringing back classic RPG"s and going against common trends in the game industry by providing classic gameplay.  

from what ive heard they are going to release more dlc for DA:O so maybe that will put some much needed and satisfying closure to the wardens story. Even so the story needs to change or shift some time if not the content becomes stagnant.

[Altima Darkspells]

There seem to be three sorts of people here--those who are happy that DA seems to be creeping closer to ME, those who aren't, and those who don't care.



Those who are pleased with the new direction of DA2...well, you already have ME1 and ME2, with th guaranteed ME3 in the near future.



Whereas those who are not pleased got screwed. Those who do not care do not matter, for obvious reasons.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

bigbubss wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

bigbubss wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
Obviously there's always going to be limitations no matter what, lest you write the dialogue yourself.  

...And for some people the limitations of a fully-voiced character don't bother them as much as they bother you.  If you want to indulge in the fantasy that that makes you "better" than them, I guess that's your right.

Of course, it'd also bother me less if it wasn't a sequel where I had some expectations on how it would be.  I came here expecting a sequel to one of my favourite games ever and I got something I'm not remotely interested in playing.

Well that may have been a little bit your fault for having such high expations. I heard about DA:2 and all i expected was an amazing game. Sure i hoped for some things but you have to remember the game they put out is gonna be the game they put out. Im just sayin ....

My expectations weren't high.  I was just expecting them to continue what they started.

I didn't think it was too much to ask them to continue doing what they're doing. Especially when DA:O's marketing focused around how it was bringing back classic RPG"s and going against common trends in the game industry by providing classic gameplay.  

from what ive heard they are going to release more dlc for DA:O so maybe that will put some much needed and satisfying closure to the wardens story. Even so the story needs to change or shift some time if not the content becomes stagnant.

I don't mind them changing the story, I'm speaking more from a design perspective.  The amount of choices Origins gives you is staggering compared to most games, and many of the mechanics are exactly what I expected when I heard "classic RPG".

Now they're taking away choices (removing race, name and personality choices in one fell swoop of adding a voiced, named character) while speaking about more "dynamic combat".  The most annoying part of all of this is that they seem to be trying to appeal to a different audience by bringing in a voiced character and changing the combat while changing things that fans of the first game loved. 

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I'm still in the "I'll see where this is going before leading a lynch mob up to Bioware's office building" group.

[MindYerBeak]

Serves you all right, you got what you wished for. I tried to warn you that DAO was heading away from D&D, but none of you would listen. Now you're all stuck with a Shepard character. A shoot'em'up with swords, a few spoken words and cinematics. You all played the Hobbit/Twin Towers in DAO and thought it made a beautiful story and was 'original'. DAO will die a quick death. 20 years from now it'll all be forgotten about and Baldurs Gate & Co. will still be going strong and modded. D&D elements is what makes a game great, not mindless hack'n'slash. A watered down D&D can only go one way, toward mindless hack'n'slash, a game you play too much of, get bored and then let gather dust on a shelf for a lifetime. Those of you who have played the game through more than 4 times will have burned yourselves out and will never return to the game again. DAO, and certainly not Shepard Hawke, does not have long term replayability, and time will prove me right. DAO2 will be about uniting feifdoms into a contigious whole. You'll play it 4 or 5 times due to the novelty then shelve it forever.

If DAO was THAT good, they'd have made DAO2.

Modifié par MindYerBeak, 10 juillet 2010 - 05:27 .

[Oronduil]

Riona45 wrote...

Oronduil wrote...

FFS. Bioware doesn't voice the main character in Dragon Age: Origins and they get tons of people complaining. Now they voice the main character in DA2 and they still get tons of people complaining. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 
I hope you realize that my post was meant to be sarcastic.

I hope you realise I wasn't replying to your post.