100 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

Fair point, Jestina. For my part, I like the dialog options that Bioware games have to offer the most. That's really the only reason I played Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

[Loc'n'lol]

If they release an updated toolset and you get it for the PC you will almost certainly be able to mod yourself into an elf or a dwarf (or a qunari, darkspawn, revenant, whatever...) though this may have undesirable effects. Voiceover may not be the reason they took this decision.

[Sabariel]

Zalocx wrote...

Jestina wrote...

Collider wrote...

Jestina wrote...
What is the point in having this still in a fantasy setting if we can no longer pick our characters race?

Is that a serious question?

Yep, we've already got a Mass Effect, Fallout, and a slew of other games where you play human. And now we get offered this upcoming fantasy game with no racial options. When people pick up a fantasy title they expect to have some options with choosing their race, this isn't the early 80's though it seems like gaming is heading back to that direction.

well if you read the thread you would see that playing a Dwarf or Elf makes little sense considering the "rise to power" story in a world where Elves are 2nd class citizens and Dwarves are outsiders and would have a hard (if not impossible) time rising to power/ The choice to only play humans makes sense given the setting and what we know about DA2's plot

But the game takes place over a period of 10 years. A lot of change can be
achieved in that time.

[Sabariel]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Zalocx wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Zalocx wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Spartansfan8888 wrote...

I think a human is the best race for a "rise to power." Elves are considered 2nd class citizens for the most part and for me at least, being a dwarf made me feel out of place in human society. That isn't a big deal as a warden whose mission is to kill darkspawn but as an up and coming tyrant/benevolent leader being a human has its definite advantages.

Wouldn't an elf or dwarf be a better "rise to power" story... because elves are second class and dwarves are unexpected? A human "rise to power" story is more "Yeah....? And....? You're the 101st human to rise, bub. Congrats".

lol

It would be more "uplifting" yes, but to do it would mean they have to retcon MASSIVE amounts of lore from the first game. It doesn't matter IF your character can do it, its just that in a human kindgom in Thedas the nobility, military, and commoners will never serve a non-human ruler.

So if you are a Dwarf be prepared to rule a nation with no people because np humans want to serve under you and your own race see you as a traitor to the Stone and Traditions for building an above-ground kingdom

If you are an Elf. . . . recall what happened to the Elves and wait for the rest of the world to declare the inevitable Chantry Crusade on your "heathen" kingdom. Also you have no subjects because even the poorest humans would never bow to an Elf, the city elves are too few and the Dalish could care less about a domesticated "flat ear" pretending to be an Elven monarch

But choices you make in the game could either change the people's minds about dwarves/elves or just further their bigotry. It's not so impossible.

some people yes, its very unlikely you could remove bigotry from the entire population of a kingdom. And even if you managed that almost mythic feat. There is the rest of Thedas. Even if other kings respect you, they will still use the excuse of your non-human blood to declare war simply because its an easy way to expand their territory with no social repercussions.

The entire population, no, but the majority is possible. And the majority won't just lie down and let others invade. They'd fight for their homes if nothing else.

You could do that because you were a Warden, which kind of overwites the social status of an Elf or a surface dwarf. That isn't the case now...

Which is why choices in the game would either have to change the public's mind or further their bigotry. The game takes place over ten years. You can change a lot of minds in that time.

[Astatine]

Collider wrote...

Really...I think you'd find most people pick up fantasy games because they want things like magic, dragons, orcs, kingdoms, warriors, not just so they can play as a different race. In Dragon Age's case, a lot of people picked the game up because it had trademark Bioware qualities like dialog selection and party members, etc.

I certainly did not play Dragon Age simply so I could choose a different race.

Errrm...  I did?

Okay, not really.  But I always play elves in fantasy RPGs.  I can't resist legends of elves and fairies, and so I'll have a nimble pointy-eared woodsman with my helping of sword-and-sorcery cliche, please, not a boring awkward human

(No offence!)

My first reaction was "damn, that's disappointing", quickly followed by "well, I hope they have good reason for it".  Of course, Bioware are masters of the RPG and they usually do.  This little information should be taken on with a little faith.  Still.

I hope that the character customisation options are good at least.  DA:O's were.  The Mass Effect character creator, by contrast, is lamentable.  I remember spending over an hour trying to make Shepard look like something other than a dumb meathead, an old git, or both, and I still wasn't satisfied with the result.  If I can't be an elf, a dwarf, or some other outlandish being, I'd like at least to be able to make Hawke, ooh, a weedy short-sighted nerd-wizard, or a rocker god with knee-length platinum blond hair!

[Sabariel]

Astatine wrote...

Collider wrote...

Really...I think you'd find most people pick up fantasy games because they want things like magic, dragons, orcs, kingdoms, warriors, not just so they can play as a different race. In Dragon Age's case, a lot of people picked the game up because it had trademark Bioware qualities like dialog selection and party members, etc.

I certainly did not play Dragon Age simply so I could choose a different race.

Errrm...  I did?

Okay, not really.  But I always play elves in fantasy RPGs.  I can't resist legends of elves and fairies, and so I'll have a nimble pointy-eared woodsman with my helping of sword-and-sorcery cliche, please, not a boring awkward human

(No offence!)

My first reaction was "damn, that's disappointing", quickly followed by "well, I hope they have good reason for it".  Of course, Bioware are masters of the RPG and they usually do.  This little information should be taken on with a little faith.  Still.

I hope that the character customisation options are good at least.  DA:O's were.  The Mass Effect character creator, by contrast, is lamentable.  I remember spending over an hour trying to make Shepard look like something other than a dumb meathead, an old git, or both, and I still wasn't satisfied with the result.  If I can't be an elf, a dwarf, or some other outlandish being, I'd like at least to be able to make Hawke, ooh, a weedy short-sighted nerd-wizard, or a rocker god with knee-length platinum blond hair!

I second that one!! lol

[Jestina]

I see the replay value of this dropping in the gutter. I played ME2 like one and half times maybe, compared with six or seven for DA:O mostly because of the different racial paths you could take.

[Collider]

A lot of people played Mass Effect 1 and 2 several times.

[Kaiser Shepard]

What is a dwarf? A miserable little pile of stones!



Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Dick Delaware]

Isabelle Mortello wrote...

I'm a bit sad about it. But hopefully this means a better story, as Dragon Age lacked in that area due to the multiple origins.

What did the multiple origins have to do with Dragon Age having a weak story? Not that I disagree that it wasn't pretty unoriginal, I just don't see the connection between one and the other.

[Sabariel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What is a dwarf? A miserable little pile of stones!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Davasar]

Gena Mafer wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

The real question is why did Hawke have to "be" human at all? They could have made the star of DA2 a dwarf or Elf, why is human always picked in games like this?

Because marketing believes that fewer people will purchase a game that has anything out-of-the-ordinary about it.

ME2 is BW's most successful formula, so EA wants them to clone that formula as many times as they can, and for as long as they can, until the franchies are dried-out corpses of  videogames.  And ME, of course, also has a human protagonist.

When there are no more pennies to be wrung out of the bodies,  Bioware will be liquidated and become EA North.  

Actually, DAO sold 3.2 million copies, and ME2 sold half that much, 1.6 million.

DOA was their most successful formula, and they are tossing it....

Sounds like someone up in the hierarchy of  EA is a moron.  Basic marketing is that you keep your core audience while explanding the original product to get more people in.

You dont make changes that alienate your core audience....which is what they are doing.  *shrug*.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

What is a dwarf? A miserable little pile of stones!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Oooh, I c wat u did thar.

[iLoveDragons]

It's so they can have a more focus story. I think. I don't really know. I would assume they are trying to tell a single, focused narrative and for that a single race such as a human would work best. Maybe. We will see.

[Dasha Dreyson]

I'm wondering if Hawke isn't Duncan's from his little trist in the tower.

[Krilral]

ShadyKat wrote...

The real question is why did Hawke have to "be" human at all? They could have made the star of DA2 a dwarf or Elf, why is human always picked in games like this?

I guess most people find humans easier to relate to.

[Ponce de Leon]

Well, they could make it something like this :
You are from Lothering... yet your race is unknown. What do you chose :
Kid from the bridge (sorry had to do it?) - Specifics - Male Human.
Daughter of the Elven family - Specifics - Female Elf
Dwarven savant - Specifics - Sandal (lo-cost voice acting!)

All three are from Lothering. Or rather, all three meet the warden IN Lothering.

Edit : also, the class would be determined by the pick :

Kid - Warrior
Daughter elf - Rogue
Sandal -... mage...

Modifié par dark-lauron, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:39 .

[Darth_Trethon]

When have you ever played as a non human? Oh that's right....you never did. You just had the options to play as a human with pointy ears or a short human instead of just having to be....you know...normal.

Hawke is the single most powerful character to have ever lived in the DA universe so he has to be badass and look awesome. That simply wouldn't be possible if he had pointy ears or if he was short....then he'd be just the single most powerful goofiest prankster that ever lived in the DA universe.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:47 .

[Lapetus]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

When have you ever played as a non human? Oh that's right....you never did. You just had the options to play as a human with pointy ears or a short human instead of just having to be....you know...normal.

Hawke is the single most powerful character to have ever lived in the DA universe so he has to be badass and look awesome. That simply wouldn't be possible if he had pointy ears or if he was short....then he'd be just the single most powerful goofiest prankster that ever lived in the DA universe.

LOL.  Gold.  

[Samb84]

What ever the reason I believe they have lessened the game a great deal !

[Lord Gremlin]

Khayness wrote...

To ensure a more cinematic experience.

...one should go to a cinema and watch a movie. Avatar is a nice choice.

[MaaZeus]

I am seriously saddened by the fact that I cant be a non-human. I almost always play as elf or half-elf if given the chance. Dialog wheel and full VO are awesome, but forced human is not.





Well atleast Hawke has beard, not as epic as Duncans but still...

[AbounI]

Don't you think that playing Hawke could be a way to incarn a common humain, which is the missing origin in DAO.It was said this origin couldn't be coherant in DAO regarding the storyline.So does Bioware find a way to give us the possibility to play the 7th origin?

Modifié par AbounI, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:54 .

[Super_Fr33k]

I'm trying to reserve judgment on Hawke and the design goals he suggests, but it is very hard. I am, of course, concerned about DA2 borrowing too heavily from ME, but I think there are reasons for optimism. We shouldn't conflate racial options with depth and responsive, variable storytelling. A few points:



Because of the immense racial tension and stratification in DA, it is difficult and time-consuming to create multiple backgrounds which all tie into one storyline. Right now, it seems like the only thing that can bring elves, humans and dwarves together are the Grey Wardens. If you want to tell a coherent story apart from just the Wardens and darkspawn, it helps a lot to have one background. Keep in mind that, not only did DA spend a lot of time on multiple origins, but it was also forced to plan around and constantly acknowledge those origins. Who is to say all those zots couldn't be well-used elsewhere?



This alone should not suggest to us that DA is being simplified or dumbed down. I think Bioware is quite aware that ME and DA are appealing for different reasons. ME is fun because it's fundamentally a shooter, and it tests coordination and reflexes. DA is a much more tactical, complex experience and had far more developed party members. Until we know more about party members (including approval/influence mechanics) and the changes to combat and itemization, we can't draw solid conclusions.



Lastly, I think Bioware is also aware that DA was successful because the player could never be perfectly "heroic." Unlike ME and other games, DA seldom let the player be a perfect hero capable of ideal solutions. DA's protagonist struggled with both internal and external corruption, and had to make ambiguous choices that always had drawbacks, whether those choices related to your companions or your quests. If DA2 preserves many different significant, complex, imperfect choices, then it will retain the first's appeal. Otherwise, it will feel like an ME rip-off and disappoint. I say that as someone who likes both games, but who appreciates that they are both good games for different reasons.

[joriandrake]

I can't resist to comment on the fact that I noticed that the people complaining (like me) about lack of choice for race and other announced things usually (always?) have a Dragon Age or Baldur's Gate related avatar, while those who "fight" the people sharing their concerns about restrictions are having Mass Effect avatars.

Modifié par joriandrake, 11 juillet 2010 - 09:13 .