140 réponses à ce sujet

[DraCZeQQ]

maybe they should color the choices (on easy) like in Fallout (with perk) or in VTM:B :-)

[Sable Rhapsody]

Niten Ryu wrote...

Heavenblade wrote...

Alpha Protocol was amazing in that nearly every single decision you made had some kind of impact somewhere other than a few dialogue blurbs. It blew me away. Even the order I did things had an impact on future missions.

Yes, almost every choice was recorded and it had some effect but in the end, those choices didn't mean much (except for roleplaying purposes). In my recent run, I only bought granades and ammo (hard / veteran difficulty) and chose the "el bastardo" route and it certainly didn't make game any harder... or much different then my previous runs. Obsidian designed game so that there's no wrong choices. Personally I dislike that kind of design philosophy. There need to be wrong choices and choices must have some kind of meaningful effect in the game world. Otherwise it's better to save some development time and just give the illusion of the choice.

First of all, on the choices:  it's my understanding that choices in AP affect the gameplay--which is more than BioWare choices usually affect--but not the essential plot.  The core plot of the game is still on rails, like any other RPG.

As far as "wrong" choices are concerned, are we talking evil choices?  Or just poor ones?  There's a significant difference between the two, and one should not mean the other.  In BG2, it was really hard to play as a straight-up bad guy because the game's reputation system inflicted severe penalties for it.  Most of the best NPCs--Edwin and Viconia being the most obvious exceptions--were good aligned or acted more-or-less good  aligned.  The best you could hope for was being a Villain with Good Publicity.  

Compare that to Heavy Rain, where you can make choices that are downright bad.  Not evil, just bad decisions, in the same sense that strapping yourself to a huge oak in a lightning storm is a bad idea.  And in Heavy Rain, the bad choices don't end the game the way they do in ME2 (death by sex, anyone?).  The game continues, but the player has to live with the consequences of the bad choices, even up to and including not having a character because YOU KILLED THEM YOU STUPID FACE PLAYER.

And a quick aside on Bethesda: I'll take them over Square any day.  They have pretty spiffy art design, and a magical ability to get people like Liam Neeson and Sean Bean to do VA work for them.  And although I'm personally not a fan of sandbox, think of what an open free-roaming sandbox + BioWare's plot, writing, and polish + Obsidian's characters and innovation would equal.  PURE RPG CRACK.  

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 09 juillet 2010 - 11:42 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

You know what guys? I WANT wrong choices. I want a game to really let me think about making the right decision.



Example: You left your love interest or BFF at the camp and are on your way to a town in need of defense from the darkspawn. Then one of the town people runs up to you screaming his lungs out about the darkspawn attacking the town and telling you that a fraction of them split away from the main group and are heading towards your camp.

Now you got a choice. Save the town and it's population and get some exclusive weapons/armor/etc along BUT your LI/BFF will die at the camp. Or, choose to leave the town to the darkspawn so you can save your LI/BFF but the town will be decimated, population slaughtered, and you'll get no exclusive weapons/armors/etc, plus people might consider you to be a coward or selfish.

Options like that are EXACTLY what we need. For every action, there should be an appropriate reaction.

[HoonDing]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Example: You left your love interest or BFF at the camp and are on your way to a town in need of defense from the darkspawn. Then one of the town people runs up to you screaming his lungs out about the darkspawn attacking the town and telling you that a fraction of them split away from the main group and are heading towards your camp.
Now you got a choice. Save the town and it's population and get some exclusive weapons/armor/etc along BUT your LI/BFF will die at the camp. Or, choose to leave the town to the darkspawn so you can save your LI/BFF but the town will be decimated, population slaughtered, and you'll get no exclusive weapons/armors/etc, plus people might consider you to be a coward or selfish.

Welcome to Alpha Protocol.

[DraCZeQQ]

yea but Madison still left ... :`-(

[FearMonkey]

Add me to the list of people who loved Alpha Protocol. My first playthrough was as a Recruit (stealth build, specialization in Stealth/Sabotage/Pistols, ended game with zero enemy kills and zero orphans created), currently playing through as a Veteran (gonna kill everybody this time). Obsidian's great strength is their writing and dialog and it really shows in Alpha Protocol. I wish more people would give that game a chance.

[fchopin]

So are you people recommending Alpha Protocol, if you are then i will buy the game.



I pre-ordered the game then it was cancelled and for some reason i still haven't played it.

[Grand_Commander13]

 

AlanC9 wrote...
"Put Alpha Protocol to bed".... is this a new metaphor? I don't think I've ever heard this one before.

Old idiom.  I mean unless Bioware takes what Obsidian did to the next level.

Anyway, while it's important to have wrong choices it's even more important to have different choices.  If Connor killed several villagers and Bann Teagan in retribution for your actions if you went to the Circle, and if their death had a meaningful in-game consequence such as losing a lucrative sponsor then it would be a real choice.  Sacrificing Isolde would have to cost something too, likely losing some stance with the Templars.

Of course for this interconnectedness to work the game has to be built with it in mind.  If I went in and just tried to implement those suggestions then the player would be like "so what?  The Templars not liking me doesn't matter at all."  And they'd be right.  If Reputation checks with various factions came up throughout the game, if certain (useful) potions were only available from some source (or available more cheaply there), if choices could open up or close off some quests.

I mean, look at Wade.  Another choice that has a real effect.  Again it exists in isolation, but it's that thinking taken to the next level that I want.

[StreetlightEagle]

I would adore Alpha Protocol if the actual gameplay during the missions was any good. The ultimate spy game would be a mix of Splinter Cell action and Alpha Protocol plot and decisions.

[Grand_Commander13]

I rather enjoyed the gameplay, actually... Quite a bit, in fact. I'm definitely recommending Alpha Protocol.

[DraCZeQQ]

agreed the conviction action system was way better then AP one :-)

[StreetlightEagle]

There's always an annoying trade off in games. I love playing conviction for the gameplay but don't find myself getting drawn into the story at all. I simply don't care about Sam or his dead daughter. In AP however I get really involved in all the twists and turns of the plot but really don't enjoy the buggy and clumsy gunfights. If game aspects were combined as such then everything would be amazing but I suppose no game has an unlimited budget.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

You know what guys? I WANT wrong choices. I want a game to really let me think about making the right decision.

Example: You left your love interest or BFF at the camp and are on your way to a town in need of defense from the darkspawn. Then one of the town people runs up to you screaming his lungs out about the darkspawn attacking the town and telling you that a fraction of them split away from the main group and are heading towards your camp.
Now you got a choice. Save the town and it's population and get some exclusive weapons/armor/etc along BUT your LI/BFF will die at the camp. Or, choose to leave the town to the darkspawn so you can save your LI/BFF but the town will be decimated, population slaughtered, and you'll get no exclusive weapons/armors/etc, plus people might consider you to be a coward or selfish.
Options like that are EXACTLY what we need. For every action, there should be an appropriate reaction.

Infamous did something like that near the end (If you care for spoilers I'd suggest not reading further)  You were forced to choose between saving your girlfriend hanging from one building and 5 innocent people hanging from another, with only time to save one or the other.  The problem is that if you save the one who he says is your girlfriend it turns out that one is actually a random person and your girlfriend is in the group of 5 (which was initially awesome until...) but if you save the group of 5 suddenly your girlfriend is the one hanging from the tower.

I quite liked the decision until I found out that no matter what your girlfriend always dies... it was a huge design cop out.  (Especially the part where you "save your girlfriend" in an act of selfishness only to save some random person while your girlfriend dies)  

[druid126]

In all fairness, the choice as to leave and go to the circle was a hard one for me to make. First it was hidden and doesn't show itself until you ask repeatedly if there's no other answer. Second, if you're playing the game for the first time you really do have to wonder "could something even worse happen if I were to leave right now". I certainly paused on that decision, pondered, and eventually chose what gave me the most hope for the safety of all.



In Awakening though, they give you two choices at one point: Save the city or save the keep. That sounds more in line with what you wanted and it really annoyed me. I assumed that after I spent hundreds of gold upgrading my keep and discovered a quarry to reinforce said keep with stone, that it could survive a battle without me. I mean how much of a difference does one person make? Apparently a lot.



I do like choices, and choices that have influences, but said choices shouldn't be one or the other, you should be able to do both if you did things perfectly (at least for most things). But I'm still a little sour that my keep was destroyed just because I wasn't there. =/

[Mycrus Ironfist]

i skipped alpha protocol because the reviews were bad...

adn the developer let me down too many times in the past...

Modifié par Mycrus Ironfist, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:50 .

[Mycrus Ironfist]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

You know what guys? I WANT wrong choices. I want a game to really let me think about making the right decision.

Example: You left your love interest or BFF at the camp and are on your way to a town in need of defense from the darkspawn. Then one of the town people runs up to you screaming his lungs out about the darkspawn attacking the town and telling you that a fraction of them split away from the main group and are heading towards your camp.
Now you got a choice. Save the town and it's population and get some exclusive weapons/armor/etc along BUT your LI/BFF will die at the camp. Or, choose to leave the town to the darkspawn so you can save your LI/BFF but the town will be decimated, population slaughtered, and you'll get no exclusive weapons/armors/etc, plus people might consider you to be a coward or selfish.
Options like that are EXACTLY what we need. For every action, there should be an appropriate reaction.

wow sounds just like the expansion

[Grand_Commander13]

In defense of Vigil's Keep, if you upgraded its walls and decked its soldiers out it does survive the siege without you. I guess without the uber gear the soldiers still need the One Man Army Corp to take the Darkspawn down.

[Conquerthecity]

I really hated the combat in AP and since that's almost the whole game, didn't like it too much.

Throughout the game I kept wishing Bioware had made it.

hint hint

[HighMoon]

Hello everyone, I am a Bioware dev in the cunning disguise of an average user, and I am here to say that the decisions in Dragon Age 2 will put Alpha Protocol to bed!

[SOLID_EVEREST]

If you want both a great story and action, get any of the MGS games. Those games have a perfect balance--best games ever created.

[saMoorai]

AP is one of my favorite RPGs. i like to believe that Shepard is a descendant to Michael Thorton

[Solenai]

I loved Alpha Protocol, reviews can kiss my ass. Bioware has the story part down they really needs to take a lesson from Obsidian in 'Choices'. Even in KotOR2, the decisions were of more consequence than the first. How you deal with the Jedi Masters, (even though they all end up dead anyway) how you settle the Czerka/Ithorians conflict on the Citadel Station. And even how you interacted with your companions and how it affects their ultimate fate and the way they act toward you.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Mycrus Ironfist wrote...

DrunkDeadman wrote...

You know what guys? I WANT wrong choices. I want a game to really let me think about making the right decision.

Example: You left your love interest or BFF at the camp and are on your way to a town in need of defense from the darkspawn. Then one of the town people runs up to you screaming his lungs out about the darkspawn attacking the town and telling you that a fraction of them split away from the main group and are heading towards your camp.
Now you got a choice. Save the town and it's population and get some exclusive weapons/armor/etc along BUT your LI/BFF will die at the camp. Or, choose to leave the town to the darkspawn so you can save your LI/BFF but the town will be decimated, population slaughtered, and you'll get no exclusive weapons/armors/etc, plus people might consider you to be a coward or selfish.
Options like that are EXACTLY what we need. For every action, there should be an appropriate reaction.

wow sounds just like the expansion

Except expansion still screwed up. I spent the entire game ugrading the keep to perfection, so I figured what the hell, I'll save the city, the keep can take care of itself.
Yet for whatever dumb reason, it falls no matter what. Plus it doesn't add anything for the rest of the game.

Now, in my example (let's say it happens mid-game) you'll either loose an entire village (shops/weapons/armor/etc) or one of your favorite party members for THE REST OF THE GAME. Dead! Gone! Something that REALLY will affect the rest of your playing experience.

[Grand_Commander13]

saMOOrai182 wrote...

AP is one of my favorite RPGs. i like to believe that Shepard is a descendant to Michael Thorton

Thorton and which woman? 

DrunkDeadman wrote...

Except expansion still screwed up. I spent the entire game ugrading the keep to perfection, so I figured what the hell, I'll save the city, the keep can take care of itself.
Yet for whatever dumb reason, it falls no matter what. Plus it doesn't add anything for the rest of the game.

As I said before, the keep can hold out.  It did both times for me, at any rate.  Your soldiers have silverite gear, right?

[Ecael]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

I would adore Alpha Protocol if the actual gameplay during the missions was any good. The ultimate spy game would be a mix of Splinter Cell action and Alpha Protocol plot and decisions.

Or the Thief series, maybe?