140 réponses à ce sujet

[Unit-Alpha]

Ecael wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Um, yes, that  makes sense. What forums? Here? Because for what I've seen, Biofanboys constantly rag on Bethesda's games, while on the Bethesda forums they all see the merits in Bioware's games. Perhaps you should play the games before attacking them. Google Cooper Lawrence and Mass Effect. That's what you're doing to Bethesda's games.

Did the sarcasm just fly over your head? At what point did I attack or insult Bethesda?

I'd say when you claimed that games clearly marketed as RPGs were, in fact, not RPGs. That's pretty insulting to the dev team who attempted to create an RPG; telling them otherwise shows that you don't believe they do a good job accomplishing their goals.

[Ecael]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Um, yes, that  makes sense. What forums? Here? Because for what I've seen, Biofanboys constantly rag on Bethesda's games, while on the Bethesda forums they all see the merits in Bioware's games. Perhaps you should play the games before attacking them. Google Cooper Lawrence and Mass Effect. That's what you're doing to Bethesda's games.

Did the sarcasm just fly over your head? At what point did I attack or insult Bethesda?

I'd say when you claimed that games clearly marketed as RPGs were, in fact, not RPGs. That's pretty insulting to the dev team who attempted to create an RPG; telling them otherwise shows that you don't believe they do a good job accomplishing their goals.

"that was constantly compared to Fallout 1/2 (Black Isle Studios) and Daggerfall (Bethesda's own creation) for not being RPG enough.

I didn't say those games weren't RPG enough, the forums where discussion took place did. And since I never participated in those discussions, I didn't insult them.

Judging solely by critical acclaim, I think Bethesda does a great job at producing RPGs. I also think BioWare does as well. Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age didn't disappoint me.

Are you willing to say the same thing, or are you going to backtrack and tell me that BioWare's dev team "did not attempt to create an RPG" with Mass Effect 2 and insult them instead?

:innocent:

If you can answer that, then you just might realize the whole point of this exercise.

Modifié par Ecael, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:52 .

[Unit-Alpha]

Ecael wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Um, yes, that  makes sense. What forums? Here? Because for what I've seen, Biofanboys constantly rag on Bethesda's games, while on the Bethesda forums they all see the merits in Bioware's games. Perhaps you should play the games before attacking them. Google Cooper Lawrence and Mass Effect. That's what you're doing to Bethesda's games.

Did the sarcasm just fly over your head? At what point did I attack or insult Bethesda?

I'd say when you claimed that games clearly marketed as RPGs were, in fact, not RPGs. That's pretty insulting to the dev team who attempted to create an RPG; telling them otherwise shows that you don't believe they do a good job accomplishing their goals.

"that was constantly compared to Fallout 1/2 (Black Isle Studios) and
Daggerfall (Bethesda's own creation) for not being RPG enough.

I didn't say those games weren't RPG enough, the forums where discussion of them did. And since I never participated in those discussions, I didn't insult them.

Judging solely by critical acclaim, I think Bethesda does a great job at producing RPGs. I also think BioWare does as well. Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age didn't disappoint me.

Are you willing to say the same thing, or are you going to backtrack and tell me that BioWare's dev team "did not attempt to create an RPG" with Mass Effect 2 and insult them instead?

:innocent:

If you can answer that, then you just might realize the whole point of this exercise.

Uh, no. As I stated before, I adore Mass Effect 2 and DA (besides the visuals). I'm just saying perhaps you should try them (Edit: Damn ambiguity; the SATs would tear me apart for this; I meant Oblivion and FO3) out. They cost like 10 dollars each now.

The point of my original post was to say that a Bioware/Bethesda collaboration would be amazing. That's all I was trying to say.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:56 .

[Pocketgb]

I think you two are on different pages here.

[spottyblanket]

Off topic guys but is alpha protocol any good? Tell me a bit about it please.

[fchopin]

Ecael wrote...

Are you willing to say the same thing, or are you going to backtrack and tell me that BioWare's dev team "did not attempt to create an RPG" with Mass Effect 2 and insult them instead?

I have already said in other threads that i do not consider ME2 to be an RPG so if you are saying it is we have nothing to discuss. What the developers were trying to do is irrelevant now as the ME2 is out and this is the DA2 forum.
 
I prefer we talked about DA2 and forget the other games.

[condiments1]

Unit-Alpha wrote...


Bioware and Obsidian? I'd say Bioware and Bethesda. Obsidian hasn't made a truly good game in quite some time. KOTOR 2 was unfinished, and AP was clunky, even with a good decision system.

Obsidian developed Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer which in terms of story was much better in terms of narrative than anything Bethesda has developed EVER, and Bioware in the last decade.

Obsidian is better at providing better writing than Bioware and Bethesda but their games seriously lack polish. They are usually too ambitious for thier own in good.

[Brian.H]

omearaee wrote...

I too love Alpha Protocol...well except for the checkpoint save system, I hate that part. I spent a lot of time getting every ending.

It would be great if Dragon Age uses some of the concepts about decision making from that game. The Redcliffe decision regarding Connor (to go to the tower or not) seemed to be a cop out. Especially if you hadn't completed the Broken Circle...I mean how long were we gone?

This game does seem to sound like Fable but its early days and information is limited.

about the circle thing.

regardless of if you did the circle before or after, it still took the same amount of time.

i mean, the travel is what made it long,  think it takes 2 weeks one way, or more (it takes 2 weeks to get there from ozzramar), and then when you are at the circle, that takes 2-3 hours tops, so 2-3 hours on top of a month really isn't anything at all extra.

Either way, 1 month is a hell of a lot of time to leave a demon roaming about.

[Ecael]

Pocketgb wrote...

I think you two are on different pages here.

Well, we are on page 4 and 5.

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Uh, no. As I stated before, I adore Mass Effect 2 and DA (besides the visuals). I'm just saying perhaps you should try them (Edit: Damn ambiguity; the SATs would tear me apart for this; I meant Oblivion and FO3) out. They cost like 10 dollars each now.

The point of my original post was to say that a Bioware/Bethesda collaboration would be amazing. That's all I was trying to say.

I've been wanting to try Fallout 3, but the GotY edition (with all the DLC included) is still around $45.

Problem is, I've already pre-ordered Starcraft II ($60) for this month and I'm still trying to see whether Metroid: Other M will be 2010 Game of the Year material. Plus, I'm following the Mass Effect DLC, which is starting to feel like a monthly subscription (but still worth it in the end).

There has to be an easier way to do this... well, legally, of course.

Modifié par Ecael, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:11 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Alpha Protocol, good game. Had some big design issues. And the three missions were fine on their own but at the end it in no way tied it together, especially considering your three options at the end.



I did like decisions opening up branches and the like, perks such as money, weapons and intel. But I still didn't feel like any of it was ont he level as the big decision in Awakening. (I mean I would put the Alpha Protocol decisions about on the level as the Architect decision in Awakening)

[AllThatJazz]

Would recommend AP. Don't expect a masterpiece, but it's a fine way to waste a few hours. x

[Pocketgb]

spottyblanket wrote...

Off topic guys but is alpha protocol any good? Tell me a bit about it please.

From what I understand: Great RPG, poor game.

fchopin wrote...

I have already
said in other threads that i do not consider ME2 to be an RPG so if you
are saying it is we have nothing to discuss.

ME1 could only be classified as an "RPG" due to its combat mechanics, and I personally didn't feel that was much to write home about.

[Leinadi]

Obsidian is better at providing better writing than Bioware and Bethesda but their games seriously lack polish. They are usually too ambitious for thier own in good.

I agree that they lack polish, but I'm not sure I'd want to trade their ambition for that polish. For all their faults in the games, something I like about OEI is that their releases have so far been different and interesting (NWN2 main campaign not included though I feel it's better than the first game). It feels as if they're interested in exploring new territories, even when we're dealing with already established franchises.
Kinda similar to Troika when they were around (though Troika pushed the design even further I'd say, something I love them for).

[Off topic guys but is alpha protocol any good? Tell me a bit about it please.

This review is fairly level-headed I think, watch the video review also http://www.1up.com/d...age?cId=3179545

Modifié par Leinadi, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:44 .

[RunCDFirst]

condiments1 wrote...

Obsidian developed Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer which in terms of story was much better in terms of narrative than anything Bethesda has developed EVER, and Bioware in the last decade.

Obsidian is better at providing better writing than Bioware and Bethesda but their games seriously lack polish. They are usually too ambitious for thier own in good.

Could BioWare and Obsidian just team up finally and make my life complete?

And while they are overambitious, I don't know if I would want it any other way. I still enjoy KotOR 2 (more than the original but I'm weird), loved AP and am almost beside myself with New Vegas on the horizon. If Obsidian were more restrictive in their design goals I don't think we would have the great aspects of the games that do get published. I'm pretty sure any company looking at AP's reactivity would just balk at the work involved and tone it down in order to provide the polish.

[Ecael]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Could BioWare and Obsidian just team up finally and make my life complete?

Obsidian needs BioWare's voice actor connections and Quality Assurance team to make a great game, it seems. Thus, I agree.

[AllThatJazz]

It'e easier to provide polish in retrospect via patches etc than it is to provide imagination and creativity. Fixing a few bugs? Shouldn't be too hard (Come on 1.04 patch!). Rewriting an entire game's worth of dialogue and characterisation? A little harder, possibly.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Alpha Protocol wasn't much buggier than ME 2, just that the gameplay was not implemented very well

[Solenai]

The only real problem I found with Alpha Protocol is that every single enemy in that game had grenades.

"Phew! I'm finally safe from that blasted turret!!"

*grenade indicator appears*

"...FFFFUUUUU!!!!"

[Onyx Jaguar]

That second to last boss fight was an abomination until you figure out the trick, which I bet many many players did not

[Leafs43]

condiments1 wrote...



Obsidian developed Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer which in terms of story was much better in terms of narrative than anything Bethesda has developed EVER, and Bioware in the last decade.

Obsidian is better at providing better writing than Bioware and Bethesda but their games seriously lack polish. They are usually too ambitious for thier own in good.

Obsidian can not make an original game that is good.

Obsidian constantly piggy backs other developers' franchises.

[DraCZeQQ]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That second to last boss fight was an abomination until you figure out the trick, which I bet many many players did not

what trick? shadow operative + chain shot 

[Unit-Alpha]

condiments1 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...


Bioware and Obsidian? I'd say Bioware and Bethesda. Obsidian hasn't made a truly good game in quite some time. KOTOR 2 was unfinished, and AP was clunky, even with a good decision system.

Obsidian developed Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer which in terms of story was much better in terms of narrative than anything Bethesda has developed EVER, and Bioware in the last decade.

Obsidian is better at providing better writing than Bioware and Bethesda but their games seriously lack polish. They are usually too ambitious for thier own in good.

Really? I never viewed MofB as anything more than an average storyline. Not sure why you think the plot/writing is so great.

[Grand_Commander13]

Leafs43 wrote...

Obsidian can not make an original game that is good.

Obsidian constantly piggy backs other developers' franchises.

You sound like you're jealous that Obsidian's writers are better than Bioware's.  I'll take Kreia as a well-developed character over Bastilla, or any of the original crew, any day.

Considering all the love that Alpha Protocol is getting, here on Bioware's boards no less, I'd call into question your claim that Obsidian can't make a good, original game.

[Solenai]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That second to last boss fight was an abomination until you figure out the trick, which I bet many many players did not

Which boss fight was that? Darcy? All you had to do there is either get lucky with those grenades or pick the lock on that tower and engage in a sniper rifle duel.

[Leafs43]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Obsidian can not make an original game that is good.

Obsidian constantly piggy backs other developers' franchises.

You sound like you're jealous that Obsidian's writers are better than Bioware's.  I'll take Kreia as a well-developed character over Bastilla, or any of the original crew, any day.

Considering all the love that Alpha Protocol is getting, here on Bioware's boards no less, I'd call into question your claim that Obsidian can't make a good, original game.

The only thing I am mad about is Obsidian's incapability of making a finished product.

My money is on Fallout New Vegas fails too.