138 réponses à ce sujet

[Tooneyman]

Dialogue wheel is more of a surprise factor if you look at the way its handled in ME universe. DA:O system its just puppet do this which is kind of cool just if they had the system, but gave more animations to your characters expression. I don't see it being so bad. It would have felt more real if you had the old txt system and your character showed more emotions than my stuff bear.

[errant_knight]

Tooneyman wrote...

Dialogue wheel is more of a surprise factor if you look at the way its handled in ME universe. DA:O system its just puppet do this which is kind of cool just if they had the system, but gave more animations to your characters expression. I don't see it being so bad. It would have felt more real if you had the old txt system and your character showed more emotions than my stuff bear.

 If you're roleplaying, your dialogue can't be a surprise. On knows what one wants to say. The dialogue wheel takes DA further away from being an RPG and closer to something entirely different.

[Zanderat]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

the dialogue whell is good... instead of givng us options like: Be nice, be less nice, be polite and nice, be a douche, be an über douche, [Kill him]. It gives us a few clear cut choices with tangible results: Be nice, be neutral, be a douche, [Kill him].

If i wanted to read and analyze I would buy a book not a game (could be one of those game nooks though)...

(Insert some random dumbing down crack here......)

Modifié par Zanderat, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:09 .

[errant_knight]

Zanderat wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

the dialogue whell is good... instead of givng us options like: Be nice, be less nice, be polite and nice, be a douche, be an über douche, [Kill him]. It gives us a few clear cut choices with tangible results: Be nice, be neutral, be a douche, [Kill him].

If i wanted to read and analyze I would buy a book not a game (could be one of those game nooks though)...

(Insert some random dumbing down crack here......)

Yeah, choosing actual dialogue, thinking, roleplaying.... Who wants that in a roleplaying game?

[ITSSEXYTIME]

CybAnt1 wrote...

I'm really, really not liking their decision to use a conversation wheel.

I'm really not liking any of their decisions so far.

One more revelation like this and I'm done thinking this game is remotely salvageable.  

EDIT:

This also means that DA2 won't be moddable if it's using a wheel. Or at the very least, we won't be able to make mods without voiced main characters.

*sigh* Disappointment after disappointment and I haven't even seen the game yet.  Congratulations Bioware, you've run the franchise into the ground and gone against everything fans wanted out of sequels and what attracted us to DA:O in the first place.

Modifié par ITSSEXYTIME, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:14 .

[Marionetten]

errant_knight wrote...

Tooneyman wrote...

Dialogue wheel is more of a surprise factor if you look at the way its handled in ME universe. DA:O system its just puppet do this which is kind of cool just if they had the system, but gave more animations to your characters expression. I don't see it being so bad. It would have felt more real if you had the old txt system and your character showed more emotions than my stuff bear.

 If you're roleplaying, your dialogue can't be a surprise. On knows what one wants to say. The dialogue wheel takes DA further away from being an RPG and closer to something entirely different.

Indeed.

In Mass Effect you weren't Shepard. You nudged him to the left or the right and giggled as he did something random. Shepard wasn't you. Shepard was Shepard and he did things which were Shepardish. Hawke, unfortunately, appears to be more of that.

[Zanderat]

Careful guys they have started locking the critical threads again.

http://social.biowar...index/3074072/1

Modifié par Zanderat, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:16 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

For starters, I find that being able to pick the exact thing your character's going to say, word for word, supposedly in the midst of a conversation to be a bit unrealistic. That's not how conversation works.

[Zanderat]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

For starters, I find that being able to pick the exact thing your character's going to say, word for word, supposedly in the midst of a conversation to be a bit unrealistic. That's not how conversation works.

I knew exactly what I was going to say as I typed this.........

[Jestina]

I don't know why they bothered with that in ME either. It should have just been...click here for paragon or click here for renegade. I could have auto-piloted through the game.

[Sirsmirkalot]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

For starters, I find that being able to pick the exact thing your character's going to say, word for word, supposedly in the midst of a conversation to be a bit unrealistic. That's not how conversation works.

That's why you never get to plan the entire dialogue. You get a reaction and you form a response. After that, you get a reaction to your response and you form another response to their reaction. Just like in real life.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:26 .

[Zanderat]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

For starters, I find that being able to pick the exact thing your character's going to say, word for word, supposedly in the midst of a conversation to be a bit unrealistic. That's not how conversation works.

That's why you never get to plan the entire dialogue. You get a reaction and you form a response. After that, you get a reaction to your response and you form another response to their reaction. Just like in real life, you know?

Jesus.

Not really.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Guys it's fine all he's saying is that you should pick each word one at a time instead of seeing your entire phrase at once.

[Sirsmirkalot]

Zanderat wrote...
Not really.

Explain your self further, please. Else I need to assume that you suggest that you start to ramble random words during a conversation, like the person I quoted pointed out.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:30 .

[Tooneyman]

Zanderat wrote...

Careful guys they have started locking the critical threads again.

http://social.biowar...index/3074072/1

Yes, please. Keep it to a debate at the most. I ask all of you. This is good conversation lets keep it from spam.  I'm still going to be indifferent on the decision for the idea that it could work out. Though this does go against what they said in the past. Heres the source on what they said between dragon age and mass effect and how the two were completely different.  
http://xbox360.ign.c...2/982609p1.html

I need to update what I said. HEres a source. I couldn't find the interview fully, but its close to this one. This is a comparison to the two conversations styles.

Modifié par Tooneyman, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:29 .

[Keithhy]

This was the thing I hated most about ME2; the lack of choice. Instead of a bunch of different ways to solve a problem, what we get is a paragon option - agree to solve the problem - or renegade - punch someone in the face.

Even then, a paragon comes across as more of a jerk than absolutely ruthless, so, for me at least, that's not even an option. All I do is click the paragon option, click the paragon option, chat up Tali, click the paragon option, etc.

[Zanderat]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Zanderat wrote...
Not really.

Explain your self further, else I need to assume that you start to ramble random words during a conversation like the person I quoted pointed out.

In a role playing game, you role play.  And that includes how your charachter reacts and what they say.  I don't want to have to guess how my character will respond or guess at what they say. 

Modifié par Zanderat, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:30 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Tooneyman wrote...

Zanderat wrote...

Careful guys they have started locking the critical threads again.

http://social.biowar...index/3074072/1

Yes, please. Keep it to a debate at the most. I ask all of you. This is good conversation lets keep it from spam.  I'm still going to be indifferent on the decision for the idea that it could work out. Though this does go against what they said in the past. Heres the source on what they said between dragon age and mass effect and how the two were completely different.  
http://xbox360.ign.c...2/982609p1.html

I need to update what I said. HEres a source. I couldn't find the interview fully, but its close to this one. This is a comparison to the two conversations styles.

It's not necessarily contradictory, as they did indeed add their own DA protag to DA2 (like Shepard) so it makes sense for them to adopt the system that is better for that perspective.

The annoying part is that they decided to add their character in the first place.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Keithhy wrote...

This was the thing I hated most about ME2; the lack of choice. Instead of a bunch of different ways to solve a problem, what we get is a paragon option - agree to solve the problem - or renegade - punch someone in the face.
Even then, a paragon comes across as more of a jerk than absolutely ruthless, so, for me at least, that's not even an option. All I do is click the paragon option, click the paragon option, chat up Tali, click the paragon option, etc.

Dragon Age's choice wasn't that different, really. Most of the time you just had a standard response, then occasionally Good, Neutral, Evil.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Keithhy wrote...

This was the thing I hated most about ME2; the lack of choice. Instead of a bunch of different ways to solve a problem, what we get is a paragon option - agree to solve the problem - or renegade - punch someone in the face.
Even then, a paragon comes across as more of a jerk than absolutely ruthless, so, for me at least, that's not even an option. All I do is click the paragon option, click the paragon option, chat up Tali, click the paragon option, etc.

Dragon Age's choice wasn't that different, really. Most of the time you just had a standard response, then occasionally Good, Neutral, Evil.

As has been explained, there was varying degrees of "good", "neutral" and "Evil responses.  Obviously they can't have a bajillion responses covering any possible way the player might want to respond, but they can't have as many ways when they have a dialogue wheel and a voiced protag.

[Sirsmirkalot]

Zanderat wrote...
In a role playing game, you role play.  And that includes how your charachter reacts and what they say.  I don't want to have to guess how my character will respond or guess at what they say. 

Hmm, I think that you and/or me might be mixing something up here. Are you saying that you expect full control over your reactions like in real life, or that you don't have the same control over what you say in real life?

[Ricochetmatt]

I'm not liking this wheel system. I loved DA:O's far more. They really have a lot of work ahead of them to sell this idea.

[Paul E Dangerously]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...
As has been explained, there was varying degrees of "good", "neutral" and "Evil responses.  Obviously they can't have a bajillion responses covering any possible way the player might want to respond, but they can't have as many ways when they have a dialogue wheel and a voiced protag.

Honestly, you guys are acting like every question had six or seven different responses. They didn't. Most of the time you were stuck on the same three response track (if even that).

[Jestina]

I would take a mute heroine over ... linear with no freedom of choice in your character. Now every game has to have a completely scripted character...leaving no room for the player to make any choices, which defeats the whole purpose of playing a game.

[Zanderat]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

Zanderat wrote...
In a role playing game, you role play.  And that includes how your charachter reacts and what they say.  I don't want to have to guess how my character will respond or guess at what they say. 

Hmm, I think that you and/or me might be mixing something up here. Are you saying that you expect full control over your reactions like in real life, or that you don't have the same control over what you say in real life?

I guess that I am saying that it is a game.  I don't want it to too realistic.  Realism doesn't always equal fun.