95 réponses à ce sujet

[CitizenThom]

A little stream of consciousness....

Let's say rogues should be special, and should have locks that only they can pick... but in that same mind set, Warriors should be special and have weapons and armor that only they can use, based on class rather than attributes... and also in the same mindset, only Mages should be able to use magic items that aren't weapons or armor... and only Warriors should be able to use magic weapons and armor. Rogues should be able to read magic spells from scrolls once they reach the right level too...   

I.e. yes there could be more overlap between classes, or less... but there's a lot of tweaking to go with either approach.
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Rogues should be worth having in the party for more than unlocking chests... otherwise what do you do? You don't bring the rogue along, you kill all the monsters, you go back to camp, tell the npc rogue he's needed for some treasure chests and head back... ha ha.

I usually have rogues along to disarm traps, to use elemental bombs, to stealth scout, etc. I use them for utility much in the way mages are used. I don't find them useless. But they shouldn't be an absolute necessity in order to get good loot. It would be better in my opinion, if rogues simply had a habit of finding more loot than warriors and mages could.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 11 février 2011 - 05:26 .

[elearon1]

I totally support the idea of a bash so long as it damages items in the chest, so the only way to get all the loot is to have a thief in the party. This way you aren't *forced* to have a thief, it merely makes them more desirable.

[The Baroness]

hello mage are the class more important because they are the ones that begin this war sow they are the only who can be able to stop it

[Ziggeh]

CitizenThom wrote...

A little stream of consciousness....

Let's say rogues should be special, and should have locks that only they can pick... but in that same mind set, Warriors should be special and have weapons and armor that only they can use, based on class rather than attributes... and also in the same mindset, only Mages should be able to use magic items that aren't weapons or armor...

Or perhaps access to a combat role unique to that class?

[_Aine_]

Jestina wrote...

There's nothing useful in those things.

Usually not.  Level 4 lock and you open it and get.... a lesser health poultice. lol

I always wished the level of the item inside related to the level of skill used to open the darn thing, but I am annoyingly logical that way.

Still, I am usually the rogue with the skills, so I get to experience this excitement myself.  

They could have always, to keep lockpicking "worthwhile" had it be a spell/skill that had to use a consumable to break the lock - thereby allowing a mage/warrior to do it, but having it cost them a little something...

[LPPrince]

I believe that if rogues are going to have this out of combat bonus, warriors and mages should have something like that too.



But to be honest, this "problem" is simplified just by having a rogue in the party.



For me, it was Leliana as far as DAO was concerned.



In DA2, most likely Isabella.

[Xewaka]

I love how people feel the need to complain about having to use a well rounded party in a party based game.

Modifié par Xewaka, 19 février 2011 - 03:55 .

[LPPrince]

I don't think its so much complaining about having to use a well rounded party as its complaining about having loot everywhere and only being able to get it if you happen to have a rogue.

Personally, most of the time I run with a warrior, mage, and rogue in my party.

Usually I play a Warrior, which means I'll bring either two mages and a rogue, two mages and another warrior, one of each, etc etc.

EDIT-

But there are times where there are no rogues and all the loot just sits there unable to be obtained.

For example, I'll be a Warrior, and I'll bring Alistair, Morrigan, and Wynne.

While Alistair and I are tanking, Morrigan is on offense with her spells while Wynne is in charge of healing.

We're good so far as combat situations are concerned, but loot wise, we're boned.

Modifié par LPPrince, 19 février 2011 - 04:01 .

[JJDrakken]

Why can't we have simple Knock spell or Lock Bash!



JJ

[Apollo Starflare]

I love how this thread keeps cropping up again and again, usually going on for between 10 and 25 pages depending on the posters involved before everyone agrees that the only 'fair' way of settling it would be to have one specific lock/barrier etc. for each class which only that class can open.



Personally I don't care either way, I'm quite happy for locks to be a rogue thing and I'll be playing as a Warrior first time around (mostly because I never got around to sword and boarding in Origins). Considering the quality of the rogue characters in DA2 I don't forsee there being many occasions when I am without one, and if there is the odd exception then I'll shrug and move on - adds to the replayability in my eyes, something Bioware games are all about.

[Tleining]

Xewaka wrote...



I love how people feel the need to complain about having to use a well rounded party in a party based game.

the problem (to me) is that you couldn't build a well-rounded party if you played a warrior during the Origin and Tower of Ishal parts. Same for Eamons-Estate in Denerim, no party, just your warrior, and locked chests

[Ziggeh]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
before everyone agrees that the only 'fair' way of settling it would be to have one specific lock/barrier etc. for each class which only that class can open.

That's not how the last few have gone!

[Apollo Starflare]

Ziggeh wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...
before everyone agrees that the only 'fair' way of settling it would be to have one specific lock/barrier etc. for each class which only that class can open.

That's not how the last few have gone!

I must admit I stopped following them as avidly after the first handful.

[Ziggeh]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
I must admit I stopped following them as avidly after the first handful.

True, I can imagine there have been many. The last few were hardly a rivetting read either, they went round in circles as the importance or otherwise of comparing in combat abilities to out of combat abilities, despite the fact that the achieved effect was the same.

[Shinannigan]

Completely agree with the OP, especially since as far as DAO was concerned, I never saw the point in taking a Rogue with me instead of three mages and a tank, apart from locked crates. Of course, with the cross class combos, the situationwill be different in DA II and I'll be sure to have either Varric or Isabela with me at all times if only to compliment my Hawke's snarkytude.



Luckily, from looking at the Ability-trees of Rogues, it appears that there is no such thing as lockpicking. Hopefully, that will mean that locked chests and doors have been abandoned in DA II (maybe apart from special doors that need keys). So here's an apprehensively excited "yay".

[Eveangaline]

Shinannigan wrote...

Completely agree with the OP, especially since as far as DAO was concerned, I never saw the point in taking a Rogue with me instead of three mages and a tank, apart from locked crates. Of course, with the cross class combos, the situationwill be different in DA II and I'll be sure to have either Varric or Isabela with me at all times if only to compliment my Hawke's snarkytude.

Luckily, from looking at the Ability-trees of Rogues, it appears that there is no such thing as lockpicking. Hopefully, that will mean that locked chests and doors have been abandoned in DA II (maybe apart from special doors that need keys). So here's an apprehensively excited "yay".

Nope, lockpicking exists, it's just based on cunning rather than an ability tree. Which for me, is a yay.

And frankly, I never saw the point of taking any warriors, but they forced me too by not letting rogues tank! And I never saw the point in bringing mages, but they forced me too by making them the ones with the heals and buffs! Clearly they need to fix this and make all classes capable of all the same things.

[druplesnubb]

I fully support this idea. But only if warriors and rogues will be able to heal and rogues and mages will be able to tank. I always disliked how I was forced to bring along a mage and a warrior every time.

Dammit, ninja'd

Modifié par druplesnubb, 19 février 2011 - 06:08 .

[Shinannigan]

Eveangaline wrote...

Nope, lockpicking exists, it's just based on cunning rather than an ability tree. Which for me, is a yay.

Nice! Thanks for the info.

And frankly, I never saw the point of taking any warriors, but they forced me too by not letting rogues tank! And I never saw the point in bringing mages, but they forced me too by making them the ones with the heals and buffs! Clearly they need to fix this and make all classes capable of all the same things.

Your Sarcasm is noted but unnecessary, because 1) I was just statin' my personal preference based on the game mechanics of DA:O where three mages could easily pick apart most bosses or hordes of enemies, I already had conceded that the devs seem to have made a balanced party far more attractive in DA II due to cross-class combos and the generous sprinkling of Warriors and Rogues with some tasty awesomesauce which they so sorely lacked in my (!) eyes in DA:O and iii) having different classes with different abilities makes sense for combat, but out of combat (where lockpicking can be found) the only thing that makes an interesting party is different characters, not different classes. Luckily, from the snippets of info that reached me so far I wager to thing that DA II seems to do a pretty good job at supplying both characters and classes that are interesting, different and interestingly different.

[Senjougahara Hitagi]

If everybody will be able to pick locks, where'll be the point in having locked chests anyway?



I do not get it, on the one hand, people complain about this game beeing too easy and on the other hand they want even this thing (not so useful in DAO) simplified to the point where it looses all meaning. Warrioirs can tank, mages can heal a rogues can pick locks. If you do not want one of them in your party, so be it, but you cannot expect to have everything. You can simply be jack of all treads, its a team game you are going to play. Not to mention that you havent played the game, and who knows... maybe you will want only rogues in your party when it comes out.

[AlexXIV]

Monstruo696 wrote...

When I say that I'd like to NOT be forced to have a rogue on my team JUST to open locks.

Or be so kind as to not put 75%+ of the game's static loot behind a freaking lock.

Otherwise I refuse to play this game until they make a mutator or implement a "bash lock" ability.

I think you can't speak for all warriors and mages ...

[Stinkface27]

I thought the lock bash mod was really appropriate, you could use your strength to bash things open but you had a chance of breaking items. That seems fair enough to me.

[Shinannigan]

Morzan_a wrote...

If everybody will be able to pick locks, where'll be the point in having locked chests anyway?

I do not get it, on the one hand, people complain about this game beeing too easy and on the other hand they want even this thing (not so useful in DAO) simplified to the point where it looses all meaning. Warrioirs can tank, mages can heal a rogues can pick locks. If you do not want one of them in your party, so be it, but you cannot expect to have everything. You can simply be jack of all treads, its a team game you are going to play. Not to mention that you havent played the game, and who knows... maybe you will want only rogues in your party when it comes out.

Problem with that is that tanking and healing are (vital) combat mechanics. Lockpicking is not. Lockpicking is technically a skill for non combat situations, just like herbalism, and it makes little sense to have just one class have a special non-combat ability while the other two classes have no similar (or completely different) non-combat skill. Especially with all other non-combat skills being cross class in DA:O... I mean, where is the logic in having lockpicking for rogues only and pickpocketing for all classes?
I find it somewhat iffy to have only one class be able to get aditional loot (mostly coin in DA:O) and XP, especially with all the areas in game where you didn't have access to a rogue at all - unless your Warden was a rogue.

But I'm only talking about DA:O. You are of course right in saying that all final judgement must be reserved until we have all played DA II.

Modifié par Shinannigan, 19 février 2011 - 06:35 .

[Eveangaline]

Shinannigan wrote...

Morzan_a wrote...

If everybody will be able to pick locks, where'll be the point in having locked chests anyway?

I do not get it, on the one hand, people complain about this game beeing too easy and on the other hand they want even this thing (not so useful in DAO) simplified to the point where it looses all meaning. Warrioirs can tank, mages can heal a rogues can pick locks. If you do not want one of them in your party, so be it, but you cannot expect to have everything. You can simply be jack of all treads, its a team game you are going to play. Not to mention that you havent played the game, and who knows... maybe you will want only rogues in your party when it comes out.

Problem with that is that tanking and healing are (vital) combat mechanics. Lockpicking is not. Lockpicking is technically a skill for non combat situations, just like herbalism, and it makes little sense to have just one class have a special non-combat ability while the other two classes have no similar (or completely different) non-combat skill. Especially with all other non-combat skills being cross class in DA:O... I mean, where is the logic in having lockpicking for rogues only and pickpocketing for all classes?
I find it somewhat iffy to have only one class be able to get aditional loot (mostly coin in DA:O) and XP, especially with all the areas in game where you didn't have access to a rogue at all - unless your Warden was a rogue.

But I'm only talking about DA:O. You are of course right in saying that all final judgement must be reserved until we have all played DA II.

But the fact is if you give warriors and mages even more, it makes it unbalanced.
RIght now warriors can tank and dps.
Mages can heal, buff, dps
rogues can dps and pick locks.
There's no real difference between a class having a vital in combat skill or a vital out of combat skill.

[PinkShoes]

Dont speak for my mages or warriors.