405 réponses à ce sujet

[Deviija]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
You might select an option that is phrased as a question, only to see Shepard not even ask a question, but instead make an assertion that you actually believe to be false (and thus never would have selected given the chance to avoid it).

Plus, even when the spoken line was short enough that it could have been displayed on the wheel, it wasn't.  Ever.  So either Mass Effect's dialogue wheel was implemented terribly, or its core intent was to be obfuscatory and inhibit roleplaying.

What concens me now, upon reading some people's comments on the contents of the Game Informer interview, is that the Dialogue Wheel has emotions represented upon it rather than even having words.  Pick choices from 'aggressive' or 'sarcastic.'  I fear that will be even more confusing and obfuscating than the ME dialogue wheel already is.  

I'll wait to see if this is, indeed, true.  

[Behindyounow]

Makes sense. It'd be boring to thread through the dialogue choice, pick it, and then have to listen to the same thing repeated again.

[Foofad]

Jesus Christ, all this drama over a dialog wheel. Seriously, guys - get it through your heads here: The only difference between a dialog wheel and Dragon Age's dialog system is the freaking orientation of your options. Curved, or straight line. You're pissed off over TYPESETTING.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Behindyounow wrote...

Makes sense. It'd be boring to thread through the dialogue choice, pick it, and then have to listen to the same thing repeated again.

But since that dialogue choise is written in the game (there are subtitles, after all), seeing it in advance nees to be an option for those who feel it is necessary in order to roleplay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Foofad wrote...

Jesus Christ, all this drama over a dialog wheel. Seriously, guys - get it through your heads here: The only difference between a dialog wheel and Dragon Age's dialog system is the freaking orientation of your options. Curved, or straight line. You're pissed off over TYPESETTING.

No, the difference is whether we know what they are as we choose them.

There is no way you could play Mass Effect, particularly the first time through, and tell me exactly what Shepard is going to say or do based on each option on that accursed wheel.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:23 .

[RunCDFirst]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
No, the difference is whether we know what they are as we choose them.

There is no way you could play Mass Effect, particularly the first time through, and tell me exactly what Shepard is going to say or do based on each option on that accursed wheel.

Exactly this. The wheel is just ridiculous. As I stated, I believe it was implemented because of the awkwardness of the consoles controller. There really is no good roleplaying reason for the wheel. It's either mildly amusing in its inaccuracy or downright misleading with inappropriate selections and responses.

[swirlwind]

Deviija wrote...

What concens me now, upon reading some people's comments on the contents of the Game Informer interview, is that the Dialogue Wheel has emotions represented upon it rather than even having words.  Pick choices from 'aggressive' or 'sarcastic.'  I fear that will be even more confusing and obfuscating than the ME dialogue wheel already is.  

I'm actually feeling positive about this information. For instance, if implemented well, it will eliminate those uncomfortable moments in which you flirt with a companion without meaning to. Or say something sarcastically that you didn't meant to and accidentally offend someone.

However, I'm afraid of losing options. If there are only the standard "good, neutral, evil" options, we will lose a lot of the nuance that was present in Origins. I would like the opportunity to decide my character's personality without having one imposed by the game. That was what DA:O did very well, and ME (or especially ME2) is almost incapable of doing. While I love the ME franchise too, I would very much like to keep the two franchises separate.

[SirOccam]

Though I liked DAO's dialogue system just fine, and was not a huge fan of ME's, DAO's was far from perfect. It was hard to tell sometimes how your statement was going to come across. This happened a lot with Alistair especially. He joked around a lot, so you want to joke around with him, but it was hard to tell if something was going to come across like a joke or not. So in that sense, I like the idea of the symbols.

I don't think I like having ONLY symbols though. It feels like that would just make it that much easier to have a spoken line not match the symbol as you might expect. If there's, for example, maybe a smiley face symbol indicating a joke, is it going to be a light-hearted joke or a mean-spirited one? Is it going to be mocking? Crude? An exquisitely bad pun? It would be nice to have a mixture of the two.

[Eleinehmm]

I wonder who created the wheel in the first place - I am not vicious but I do want to Shepard-punch the guy. Thanks for killing RPGs !
In more serious note, I agree with Sylvius - Knowing is roleplaying
I don't know, maybe I should have stopped playing long ago – I do not like the direction the genre is going to...

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:49 .

[Paulina]

Dialogue wheel... All my worst fears came true.

That's why I disliked ME.



I was LOOKING at 2 people having a conversation, and I wasn't feeling like partaking in it.



The choices I made- were not exactly what I wanted to say. And the choices were disappointedly poor.



The intonation of my voice actor sometimes made me sick - it was sometimes far from what I wanted to convey.





I DO hope there will soon appear some decent RPGs , not films.

DA 2 will be a great game. No doubt, it's BioWare. But it wil be a gripping interactive film. Not a good RPG. You killed it in the essence.

[Epantiras]

Spear-Thrower wrote...
so you can focus more on the
interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices.

I like analyzing my dialogue choices.

[Warlokki]

Personally i liked the wheel system a lot. Though i don't like NOT knowing what i'm going to say, since even ME2 still has moments where the choice doesn't do what you think it does.

One problem with the wheel is that you have a evil/chaotic, a neutral, and a good/lawful choice, no shades of gray. Anyone claiming otherwise, please replay ME1/2. Oh and it limits the choices a bit too much... but this could be solved easily. Really. Just make more frigging options, don't just distill them to 3 archetypes.

Otherwise i have no issues.

[yogolol]

The main thing i didn't like about the wheel was when I was trying to wheel the choice into a option and it would take awhile(played on xbox360) sometimes and I would be sitting there for like 30 seconds trying to choose a option.

[RunCDFirst]

SirOccam wrote...

Though I liked DAO's dialogue system just fine, and was not a huge fan of ME's, DAO's was far from perfect. It was hard to tell sometimes how your statement was going to come across. This happened a lot with Alistair especially. He joked around a lot, so you want to joke around with him, but it was hard to tell if something was going to come across like a joke or not. So in that sense, I like the idea of the symbols.

Honestly, I think Alistair is just one of those guys that likes to make jokes but can't take any.

Spear-Thrower wrote...
Do you analyze your choices when talking to someone in real life? Maybe they stand there waiting forever until you think of the best reply?

Nope, in real life a handy little ring appears before me and everyone waits as I pick between the conveniently laid our nice guy, normal guy and bastard guy options; all the while trying to guess which one is actually going to accurately present what I want to say.

Realism is not an argument for system implementation. 

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:43 .

[SirOccam]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
I don't think I like having ONLY symbols though. It feels like that would just make it that much easier to have a spoken line not match the symbol as you might expect. If there's, for example, maybe a smiley face symbol indicating a joke, is it going to be a light-hearted joke or a mean-spirited one? Is it going to be mocking? Crude? An exquisitely bad pun? It would be nice to have a mixture of the two.

It isn't symbols only. Those appear at the center of the wheel to show intent

.“Dragon Age II uses a conversation system similar to Mass Effect’s,
where players select paraphrased versions of the dialogue from a wheel.
An icon in the middle of the wheel even illustrates the line’s basic
intent (like aggressive or sarcastic), so you can focus more on the
interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices.”

Ah, thanks. Missed that. Good good.

[Collider]

so you can focus more on the

interaction rather than reading and analyzing your dialogue choices.”

That doesn't sound good. I mean, knowing what kind of tone Hawke takes is fine, but the emphasis on interaction over analyzing dialog choices sounds suspect.

[Leeaire]

Come on guys, stop acting like DA:O's dialouge didn't have any flaws. *sigh* The voiced actor should allow for more depth in the story...they just really need to make sure they pick up a good actor tis all.

[Paulina]

Dialogue wheel as in in ME2 is far form realism and being accurate. And I DO analyse my choices when faced with a difficult conversation/situation.

Seeing the precise dialogue options , as in DA, made me choose at least one of them that was somewhat fitting to what I wanted to say and how I wanted to react. Dialogue wheel deprives me of this option.

In ME2 I sometimes chose one option and... to my surprise that was definitiely not what I wanted to say ! NOT in these words, this intonation and this posture !  That is NOT roleplaying ...that I can't control my character. You might convey the VERY limited and general idea of what you want to say in the dialogue wheel. But you will never know the exact words of your hero.

Yes, that will be pure interaction. No time for analysing. It wil be a film, like Mass Effect 2. Not a book to read and analyse, like Dragon Age : Origins. As they stated, they don't want us to analyse. Mostly - interact.

Beware.. the new era is coming... Dragon Age 2-: interactive film (for dummies)

I DO hope I am getting it wrong. Really. But I didn't enjoy Mass Effect 2 (played on my husband's account). I found it too easy and dialogues... too shallow. Or maybe it's just me being too fastidious.

Modifié par Paulina, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:20 .

[Ecael]

thenemesis77 wrote...

HAHAH, David and CO are going to make this a 3rd rate game that will be in the 10 bin at walmart, oh as smart as you guys are you must be on crsytal meth.........I hate BIOBOYS.

I really hope '77 isn't your actual birth date - to imagine a 33 year old sitting at his computer whining like a 13 year old is just depressing.

[rooky91]

This is ok so long as its not as obvious (like in ME) whats right and wrong. You know, TOP RIGHT is the good option, BOTTOM RIGHT is the bad option.

[Giubba]

TiaraBlade wrote...

Do you know nothing of roleplay? Sorry to be blunt, but I can't help but ask.

I do, thank you.

Roleplay requires you to immerse yourself into a character and make it  your own.

I do by making the character look like I want him/her to, act as I want within the choices given to me, and speak as I want, again within the choices given to me.

A voice over doesn't give us that

In your opinion. You see, my choice is that I WANT my character to have a voice. I want to HEAR those words. I feel more in tune with a character who actually SPEAKS to a world when it speaks to her. That is a greater connection to me than "pick a line and see how the other character reacts."

 it's a predetermined voice, not the one you want, not to mention that voice is restrictive in what tone it uses.

Not having a voice is restrictive as well. Having played ME1 and ME2, I never had a problem with the tone my character used: it matched what the dialogue was.

A dialogue wheel doesn't give us that because your responses are preset, to what? Good Bad and neutral? 

And DA:O is different? You seem to think so but I never saw much of a difference if the variety of responses in DA vs either ME. In either game, it's, as I noted in another post, more or less postive, neutral, negative, investigate, and sometimes a persuade or intimidate choice.

And even so your dialogue option doesn't even match up to what wil lbe done/said. If I want my chracter to treaten the NPC I want them to say threaten not punch the other person/NPC talking to me.

Again, I don't see this problem in ME1 or ME2 unless you are referring to the Renegade/Paragon interrupts which you should figure out are going to end a conversation and might be a little extreme. I very rarely picked a dialogue choice in ME and was shocked that Shephard said something I wasn't expecting or intending.

I just do not see your arguements carrying any weight, I am sorry. I believe that for some reason you are overally invested in this. Honestly, questioning whether I understand what role-playing is happens to be silly. Whether ME or DA:O, we are creating a character to assume a role that Bioware has defined. In ME, it's Commander Shepherd while in DA:O, it's the Warden. Among the ways we define are looks, powers, skills, and choices. To think that having voice acting somehow undermines ME as a RPG just is bizzare. I think forcing a mission and role on us is more restricting and makes it more role-defining than role-playing compared to the voice not being what you want it to be.

sometimes logic still happen

[Eleinehmm]

Maybe we should implement this system  on  the forums first …

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:36 .