405 réponses à ce sujet

[Eleinehmm]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...
More like This

See - For example I wouldn't choose the first response for my non religious character - But in the case of the Wheel I do not know what he will says...

A wheel can do exactly the same, just condensed slightly. This is more about proper implementation than a dialog wheel being inherently bad.

Your example fits when you cut out the superfluous detail.

1. Yes, the maker wills it.
2. No, it's against my principles.
3. My reward?
4. How dare you!
5. We shall see.

That said basically the same thing with less than half the words.

Superfluous details ARE important. -  I am not good with writing, but I am pretty sure that the difference between the sort version and the long can be drastic. I am not sure that the precise style of responses can always be conveyed by sort sentences.  Take ME and it’s famous S-punch  for  example…

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:38 .

[Arbiter Libera]

I just don't get it. Why the wheel? What clear, if any, benefit does it bring when compared to the standard 1, 2, 3 selection (which you can select with corresponding number on your keyboard, no less)? I hate to come off as if I'm bashing the consoles in some way or form, but this is really just a change to please them and their analog sticks, no reason why the PC version shouldn't retain the old way.

Spear-Thrower wrote...
Your example fits when you cut out the
superfluous detail.

It's called "roleplaying".

Modifié par Arbiter Libera, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:36 .

[iTomes]

Rogue Unit wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Horrible. Hello there, third person person, goodbye first person person. The character in Dragon Age was somebody the player can associate with, you can model him/her after yourself. And in Mass Effect the character is just....somebody whose shoulder you can look over and nod.
Also, goodbye gay romances.

You can model Shepard after yourself and you saw more of your Shepards face than the PC in DA:O.
If I recall correctly DA:O had alot of conversation and 95% the time your were looking over your PC shoulder...
And the few convos you do see his/her face they're sitting with a blank expression and blood splatter all over their face.

u don't want to get the point do you??^^ the problem is that it is harder to identify with someone who actually talks. you see, in DA:O i stood behind the options i chose. i chose "die Bloodmage" and "said" "die bloodmage". now i choose "die  bloodmage" and get "you are an evil abomination in the eyes of the maker (blabla fanatic talk blabla)". now  i want my char to be an atheist. he doesn't have to like bloodmages, so "die bloodmage" makes sense. the looooooooong fanatic speech ill get without wanting doesn't. QED

Modifié par iTomes, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:38 .

[Luke Bioware]

I. Absolutely. Love. That.



http://social.biowar...1/index/3081228

[Rogue Unit]

iTomes wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Horrible. Hello there, third person person, goodbye first person person. The character in Dragon Age was somebody the player can associate with, you can model him/her after yourself. And in Mass Effect the character is just....somebody whose shoulder you can look over and nod.
Also, goodbye gay romances.

You can model Shepard after yourself and you saw more of your Shepards face than the PC in DA:O.
If I recall correctly DA:O had alot of conversation and 95% the time your were looking over your PC shoulder...
And the few convos you do see his/her face they're sitting with a blank expression and blood splatter all over their face.

u don't want to get the point do you??^^ the problem is that it is harder to identify with someone who actually talks. you see, in DA:O i stood behind the options i chose. i chose "die Bloodmage" and "said" "die bloodmage". now i choose "die  bloodmage" and get "you are an evil abomination in the eyes of the maker (blabla fanatic talk blabla)". now  i want my char to be an atheist. he doesn't have to like bloodmages, so "die bloodmage" makes sense. the looooooooong fanatic speech ill get without wanting doesn't. QED

You mean a character that talks is hard for YOU to identify with.  No point in arguing opinions.

[Luke Bioware]

That's a weak argument, Rogue Unit. You still choice the lines the developer wrote for you. I think you guys are way overreacting :').

[Melra]

Weeh! I prefer the dialogue wheel over the DA:O's system anyway. This game just keeps getting better and better for me.

[iTomes]

Rogue Unit wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Horrible. Hello there, third person person, goodbye first person person. The character in Dragon Age was somebody the player can associate with, you can model him/her after yourself. And in Mass Effect the character is just....somebody whose shoulder you can look over and nod.
Also, goodbye gay romances.

You can model Shepard after yourself and you saw more of your Shepards face than the PC in DA:O.
If I recall correctly DA:O had alot of conversation and 95% the time your were looking over your PC shoulder...
And the few convos you do see his/her face they're sitting with a blank expression and blood splatter all over their face.

u don't want to get the point do you??^^ the problem is that it is harder to identify with someone who actually talks. you see, in DA:O i stood behind the options i chose. i chose "die Bloodmage" and "said" "die bloodmage". now i choose "die  bloodmage" and get "you are an evil abomination in the eyes of the maker (blabla fanatic talk blabla)". now  i want my char to be an atheist. he doesn't have to like bloodmages, so "die bloodmage" makes sense. the looooooooong fanatic speech ill get without wanting doesn't. QED

You mean a character that talks is hard for YOU to identify with.  No point in arguing opinions.

nope im saying that i want to know WHAT im saying xD. in ME2 i could tell that cerberus-guy "i don't trust you" and got an "im so loyal to the alliance man cerb. are evil terrorists!!" speech. thats simply not what i wanted to say.

[MaaZeus]

iTomes wrote...



u don't want to get the point do you??^^ the problem is that it is harder to identify with someone who actually talks. you see, in DA:O i stood behind the options i chose. i chose "die Bloodmage" and "said" "die bloodmage". now i choose "die  bloodmage" and get "you are an evil abomination in the eyes of the maker (blabla fanatic talk blabla)". now  i want my char to be an atheist. he doesn't have to like bloodmages, so "die bloodmage" makes sense. the looooooooong fanatic speech ill get without wanting doesn't. QED

You actually give a good point. I mean I LOVE Dialog wheel. It gives ME more RPGish feeling: When I hear someone speak something I for example dont like, based on my current feelings I can pick a manner how I answer and do it quickly. Or if I need glarifications I can pick Investigate options. Its fast, and I can answer based on my feelings and emotions instead of thinking what might be proper answer from long lines of sentences and picking it up.

But you are correct that this dialog wheel system might limit on choices how you approach the situation with same outcome. Your Bloodmage example is a good one. Can they implement atheist comment, direct no-fancy-words DIE AND a fanatic speech? I think it can be done with bigger dialog wheel but will Bioware go that route?

Modifié par MaaZeus, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:04 .

[CarlSpackler]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Please make this optional, BioWare. We can't roleplay if our characters are going to behave unpredictably.
If you're going to make DA2 a third-person narrative like Mass Effect is instad of first-person like DAO (I believe it was Ray Muzyka who first drew the distinction in an interview), I'm forced to ask under what circumstances we'll be given a first-person narrative again.

This.

[MaaZeus]

CarlSpackler wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Please make this optional, BioWare. We can't roleplay if our characters are going to behave unpredictably.
If you're going to make DA2 a third-person narrative like Mass Effect is instad of first-person like DAO (I believe it was Ray Muzyka who first drew the distinction in an interview), I'm forced to ask under what circumstances we'll be given a first-person narrative again.

This.

When playing Mass Effect not even once was my character unpredictable with Dialog Wheel. Of course you dont know exacty words but manner and most likely outcome is always quite clear. So no, I do not think this is that good criticism against dialog wheel. Just my opinion though.

[Paromlin]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Solidbebe wrote...

Surely people from Bioware read these threads, can't they see that they are making the wrong decisions??

The people complaining and crying probably dont even represent 1% of Biowares fanbase.

And that's you assuming a lot of stuff. You don't know how many cringe at the idea of these idiotic "additions" to DA2, but don't bother posting on the forum.
All we can assume is that we (both sides) represent a wider crowd.

[eviant]

Melrache wrote...

Weeh! I prefer the dialogue wheel over the DA:O's system anyway. This game just keeps getting better and better for me.

I agree.

[MaaZeus]

Oh yeah, one thing I hope they dont add to DA2 dialog wheel is the same Persuasion system as in ME. I really hope they keep persuasion checks random with chances getting higher the better skills you have instead of magical everything-will-be-allright persuasion button which is available and always works the moment you have enough points.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:51 .

[Aldarekal]

Pretty disapointed in the dialogue wheel for DA2, but i will try to remain positive about it untill i've actually seen some of the game

[XX55XX]

eviant wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Weeh! I prefer the dialogue wheel over the DA:O's system anyway. This game just keeps getting better and better for me.

I agree.

Indeed. I welcome this move. Adding that BioWare plans to keep the same gameplay mechanics on the PC, I am very satisfied by these ongoing developments so far.

I found it tedious to read all the options before I picked something... Hence, which is why I welcome the dialogue wheel. 

[Arbiter Libera]

Spear-Thrower wrote...
ah, so "roleplaying" is saying exactly the same thing but needing twice as many words? The extra detail in those lines add nothing to the overall experience. You're still choosing the 'tone' of your reply. Using 5, 10 or even a hundred words, doesn't make the NPC response any different. It's all predetermined.

Do you even get the concept of role-playing?
It's import to the player and his vision of the character he play with, It doesn't have to be represented mechanically to mean something.

[OriginsIsBest]

TiaraBlade wrote...

Some complaints do not make sense to me, including how a dialogue wheel with spoken words somehow gives you less"choice" or "options" compared to non-spoke dialogue trees.

In both DA and ME, you tend to get the following choices:
1. positive response
2. neutral response
3. negative response
4. investigate (goes to a second wheel or dialogue tree of various subjects)

And sometimes you get additional choices based on intimidation of persuasion. I didn't see much difference.except for the campside chats with your followers in DA where the overall conversations seemed to go on longer and your companions had more to say. That has nothing to do with a spoken dialogue wheel though (after all, all of your companions are fully voices- you can't tell me voicing the PC would be a killer here).

I think some people are going into a "they changed it and now it sucks" trip.

Everybody will just keep clicking 1 when your in a conversation now. Aghhhhh Bioware you have ruined this game. The one thing I didnt want out of all the bad things so far, this has to be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AlanC9]

MaaZeus wrote...
When playing Mass Effect not even once was my character unpredictable with Dialog Wheel. Of course you dont know exacty words but manner and most likely outcome is always quite clear. So no, I do not think this is that good criticism against dialog wheel. Just my opinion though.

We've already had several people complaining that dialog options in both games sometimes led to the character saying the player didn't intend and doing things the player didn't want him to do. It's good for you that your guesses as to the character's actions were correct, but that doesn't mean the system's good, it means you're lucky.

Edit: I'm not saying that it's impossible to avoid this kind of problem. I'm just saying ME didn't handle it well.

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:50 .

[Sidney]

iTomes wrote...
nope im saying that i want to know WHAT im saying xD. in ME2 i could tell that cerberus-guy "i don't trust you" and got an "im so loyal to the alliance man cerb. are evil terrorists!!" speech. thats simply not what i wanted to say.

...and yet somehow the answers in DAO were always exactly what you wanted to say? I always get 4 dialog options and none of them are exactly right . Even the "Die!" option doesn't quite capture the theatrical flair I want my character to have at that moment.  I always assume my character isn't some autistic version of Hemmingway and he speaks in slights more elaborate terms than the clipped phrases and sentences in the menu option.

In the end, since you are not delivering the words and merely picking from a selection written by another person the options will almost never be exactly what you'd want to say nor how you'd say it. Thus, i don't care about the wheel vs the menu.

[MaaZeus]

AlanC9 wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...
When playing Mass Effect not even once was my character unpredictable with Dialog Wheel. Of course you dont know exacty words but manner and most likely outcome is always quite clear. So no, I do not think this is that good criticism against dialog wheel. Just my opinion though.

We've already had several people complaining that dialog options in both games sometimes led to the character saying the player didn't intend and doing things the player didn't want him to do. It's good for you that your guesses as to the character's actions were correct, but that doesn't mean the system's good, it means you're lucky.

Edit: I'm not saying that it's impossible to avoid this kind of problem. I'm just saying ME didn't handle it well.

It could be. It might be the reason too why I loved Dialog wheel simply because it immidietly "clicked" with me.

[JamieCOTC]

Hopefully this means they have abandoned the Awakening dialog system. If so, praise be to Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Zeus, Odin and every god that has ever existed.

[UndercoverDoctor]

Sounds good to me.