405 réponses à ce sujet

[Yamo425]

 Well, it was nice knowing you, Dragon Age.

[KethWolfheart]

They don't have much choice in this from the way I see it. Back in the early days it did not cost that much to make a game. So it was perfectly okay for companies to make a large variety of games for all the various niches - games of action, puzzle games, and RPG games where you actually had to role play versus just interact with a movie (aka ME2 and Shephard - where you don't role play you just direct Biowares character. While you can role play someone specific, say a parent when doing therapy, you more often role play a role not someone specific.  So you can role play a cop, or a store owner, or a hunter, or a grey warden.  Those are professions and roles.  Shephard is a person, made by Bioware.  Sure you can pretend to role play him in the loosest definition of the word possible, but its not even close to having the wider flexibility to take on many different roles in a game - the more the better, and define that character around your own image and not the companies.  A lot of people in this thread seem to be new to the concept and don't fully understand it.  The more the role optins the better.  ME2 style is pretty much limited to one - Shephard).

But now to make a AAA game it takes a huge budget - so creating million dollar games for niches simply does not work. THis is why Bioware, and other developers, are moving away from the more carefully crafted RPG style games to the more cinematic, actiony, very loosely wrapped RPG games.

They have to appeal to the masses ... and well the masses tend to like simple things over complex, things that are quick and easy versus complex. Good portion of people these days have massive ADD from the computer and internet generation.

Who wants to read actual text (seems like most kids these days are partially illiterate anyhow). Lets have a little picture (emoticon) along with a few simple words (perhaps they should be spelled out cell-phone text style to be even more familiar) on a nice wheel.

The thing here isn't whether DAO or ME is the better or worse game because thats opinion and they are both good or bad in their own way. The main problem is why merge the two of them?

Most likely because of the masses. Companies need to make money for these big budget games and now we see the consequences. Sad but in the end you are probably going to appeal to the majority of the gamers so its a win-win for the company and the masses. Its the few real RPG game players who want a good, high quality game to play that miss out. In many ways that seems to be part of the problem here - DAO was a hint that maybe those games were not gone ... so seeing DA2 move towards ME2 is what is disappointing to many.

Modifié par KethWolfheart, 10 juillet 2010 - 05:27 .

[Paromlin]

KethWolfheart wrote...
and RPG games where you actually had to role play versus just interact with a movie (aka ME2 and Shephard - where you don't role play you just direct Biowares character).
 

The problem.
That's the pinnacle of lameness.

[cotheer]

Meh, that's all i have to say.

Wheel worked well in ME/ME2, but really, DA with wheel just feels wrong, if for nothing than for limited number of choices.

Whats wrong with list of choices? Someone who is too lazy to read, he/she should stay away from RPG's for good.

So far nothing seems appealing enough for me to go and play this game, since it became (will become if they continue this way) just another washed out "RPG" title out there. >_>



Anyone remembers persuading Bastila to leave the dark side? *sigh* memories.

[Martanek]

"Whats wrong with list of choices? Someone who is too lazy to read, he/she should stay away from RPG's for good".

I agree completely. From what we know yet, DA:O 2 seems to aim at even more mainstream audiences than its predecessor. So far, no good news for me. But there is at least enough room for pleasant surprises...

[Sidney]

cotheer wrote...
Anyone remembers persuading Bastila to leave the dark side? *sigh* memories.

..and how can't you do that with a voiced character?  Wouldn't the interplay between two interactive people be all the better than having your mute character just standing there?

People act like the dialog wheel is written in hieroglyphics or something. The options make sense and I can only think of one time back in ME that the option didn't make clear the thought you were trying to get across. For people who are so worried about things being dumbed down I think I see a LOT of stupid going on.

[whinnie]

Martanek wrote...

"Whats wrong with list of choices? Someone who is too lazy to read, he/she should stay away from RPG's for good".
I agree completely. From what we know yet, DA:O 2 seems to aim at even more mainstream audiences than its predecessor. So far, no good news for me. But there is at least enough room for pleasant surprises...

this isnt supposed to be DA:O 2, this is DA2 a completely different game trying out new concepts for the franchise.

is there really so few people who are actually going to wait until we see how the game turns out? i've been disappointed with games or aspects of games early on (DA;O combat in fact was one of them) but i have never just discarded games with such little information on how the game will actually play out. i bet at least 70% of the nay sayers, in a few months will be foaming at the mouths waiting for more information on the game.

[LPPrince]

whinnie wrote...

Martanek wrote...

"Whats wrong with list of choices? Someone who is too lazy to read, he/she should stay away from RPG's for good".
I agree completely. From what we know yet, DA:O 2 seems to aim at even more mainstream audiences than its predecessor. So far, no good news for me. But there is at least enough room for pleasant surprises...

this isnt supposed to be DA:O 2, this is DA2 a completely different game trying out new concepts for the franchise.

is there really so few people who are actually going to wait until we see how the game turns out? i've been disappointed with games or aspects of games early on (DA;O combat in fact was one of them) but i have never just discarded games with such little information on how the game will actually play out. i bet at least 70% of the nay sayers, in a few months will be foaming at the mouths waiting for more information on the game.

This is how it always ends up.

1. People hear the first bit of news and complain that the game will suck/series will end.
2. Then comes the first few bits of video, and people split between foaming for more info or continually bashing the game.
3. We get to see clips of gameplay, and people either strengthen or weaken the arguments.
4. Game gets a Collector's Edition, and then all the haters come out of the woodwork to preorder it.
5. Game becomes a commerical success.
6. PROFIT.

[Dave of Canada]

There goes my sarcastic loveable rogue.

What should I be, Paragon or Renegade?

[Dave of Canada]

Sidney wrote...

cotheer wrote...
Anyone remembers persuading Bastila to leave the dark side? *sigh* memories.

..and how can't you do that with a voiced character?

Because you're not the one doing the convincing, you press one of three dialogue options and watch it infold like a movie.

[LPPrince]

Dave of Canada wrote...

There goes my sarcastic loveable rogue.

What should I be, Paragon or Renegade?

Maybe you missed it, but when they mentioned DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, they didn't say it was exactly like ME's.

There is no paragon and renegade. On top of that, there will be sarcastic options.

Please stop hating without knowing the facts first. The few facts we have, sure, but facts nonetheless.

[NvVanity]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sidney wrote...

cotheer wrote...
Anyone remembers persuading Bastila to leave the dark side? *sigh* memories.

..and how can't you do that with a voiced character?

Because you're not the one doing the convincing, you press one of three dialogue options and watch it infold like a movie.

Afraid thats a matter of opinion ol' chap. Some people prefer no voice, some people prefer voice. In this case Bioware is taking the voice route as that is the more popular one i'm guessing.

Personally I don't mind voice acting. Don't really see how it ruins the idea of me doing the convincing. I'm playing some hero guy that I probably can never be in real life and thinking of my dwarf character having my absurdly deep voice is a bit creepy to imagine.

[Dave of Canada]

LPPrince wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

There goes my sarcastic loveable rogue.

What should I be, Paragon or Renegade?

Maybe you missed it, but when they mentioned DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, they didn't say it was exactly like ME's.

There is no paragon and renegade. On top of that, there will be sarcastic options.

Please stop hating without knowing the facts first. The few facts we have, sure, but facts nonetheless.

When you have a wheel, you can't jumble around the 'good' 'evil' and 'neutral' options with basic summarys. It'll have to be placed in a similar fashion to the current system where there's a good option at the top and negative option at the bottom.

Thus, it'll be split up into 'good' 'middle' and 'evil'.

[LPPrince]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

There goes my sarcastic loveable rogue.

What should I be, Paragon or Renegade?

Maybe you missed it, but when they mentioned DA2 will have a dialogue wheel, they didn't say it was exactly like ME's.

There is no paragon and renegade. On top of that, there will be sarcastic options.

Please stop hating without knowing the facts first. The few facts we have, sure, but facts nonetheless.

When you have a wheel, you can't jumble around the 'good' 'evil' and 'neutral' options with basic summarys. It'll have to be placed in a similar fashion to the current system where there's a good option at the top and negative option at the bottom.

Thus, it'll be split up into 'good' 'middle' and 'evil'.

So then what's the problem? Its the same system except instead of lines its a wheel and instead of reading the exact line to be stated we get a description relating to what will be said/done.

We could get-

Good   \\       / Honorable
Neutral - - -  Investigative
Evil      /       \\ Sarcastic

For all we know.

Modifié par LPPrince, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:29 .

[Sidney]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sidney wrote...

cotheer wrote...
Anyone remembers persuading Bastila to leave the dark side? *sigh* memories.

..and how can't you do that with a voiced character?

Because you're not the one doing the convincing, you press one of three dialogue options and watch it infold like a movie.

Wait and when "you" do it in KotOR it isn't you presing a button? You still are not doing anything the only difference is you don't see anything unfold just Bastilla responding to one sentence.

If you wrote the dialog and then KoTOR scrubbed it to tone and meaning like the notes in Animal Crossing then you might have some sort of point but picking dialog options from a wheel as opposed to from a menu really doesn't matter.

[ztonkin]

While I must admit that they seem to be bringing in a lot of ME features for some reason or another, I think everyone is GOING A LITTLE OVERBOARD with their reactions. Everyone is practically ****ting themselves with fury and the game is still several months away.



I find it amusing that even after BioWare has consistenly delivered AAA games, despite all the worry, for over 15 years now, people are still concerned about what they do with their games.



If anyone, ANYONE, can deliver, it's BioWare. Personally, I'll wait until I see this article for myself and see the debut trailer next month before I even consider worrying about DA2.

[Anathemic]

ztonkin wrote...

While I must admit that they seem to be bringing in a lot of ME features for some reason or another, I think everyone is GOING A LITTLE OVERBOARD with their reactions. Everyone is practically ****ting themselves with fury and the game is still several months away.

I find it amusing that even after BioWare has consistenly delivered AAA games, despite all the worry, for over 15 years now, people are still concerned about what they do with their games.

If anyone, ANYONE, can deliver, it's BioWare. Personally, I'll wait until I see this article for myself and see the debut trailer next month before I even consider worrying about DA2.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were a let down, I could barely get through one playthrough each.

[LPPrince]

By the way, I fail at making dialogue wheels out of text, apparently. *facepalm+headdesk+price is right fail horn*

Modifié par LPPrince, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:46 .

[Layn]

ztonkin wrote...

I find it amusing that even after BioWare has consistenly delivered AAA games, despite all the worry, for over 15 years now, people are still concerned about what they do with their games.

If anyone, ANYONE, can deliver, it's BioWare. Personally, I'll wait until I see this article for myself and see the debut trailer next month before I even consider worrying about DA2.

both Mass Effect 2 and dragon age awakening were above average, but still huge disappointments to me. Seeing as these were Biowares most recent efforts, it doesn't bode well for DA2 specially coupled with the things that have been revealed so far.
sure the game will be good. but it won't be as good as it could be for me

[Dave of Canada]

Sidney wrote...
Wait and when "you" do it in KotOR it isn't you presing a button? You still are not doing anything the only difference is you don't see anything unfold just Bastilla responding to one sentence.

If you wrote the dialog and then KoTOR scrubbed it to tone and meaning like the notes in Animal Crossing then you might have some sort of point but picking dialog options from a wheel as opposed to from a menu really doesn't matter.

You're able to fail in convincing Bastila to go back to the lightside, it all depends on your chosen responses. If it's voiced over, than you're essentially just going to watch the character do the convincing for you. If it has the Mass Effect, then you pick the charm / intimidate option and just watch the character magically convince the person everything is okay.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 juillet 2010 - 09:10 .

[Celies]

I have nothing against a voiced main character, but the wheel got to go. Still picking up the game, but with enough complaints, just maybe...

[Dave of Canada]

LPPrince wrote...

So then what's the problem? Its the same system except instead of lines its a wheel and instead of reading the exact line to be stated we get a description relating to what will be said/done.

We could get-

Good   \\\\       / Honorable
Neutral - - -  Investigative
Evil      /       \\\\ Sarcastic

For all we know.

I'm having trouble following this image.

[cotheer]

Dave of Canada wrote...
You're able to fail in convincing Bastila to go back to the lightside, it all depends on your chosen responses. If it's voiced over, than you're essentially just going to watch the character do the concinving for you. If it has the Mass Effect, then you pick the charm / intimidate option and just watch the character magically convince the person everything is okay.

This ^
I remember i had to try a lot of combinations to get her to light side again, because even in 10 good selections 1 could be wrong and that would mean starting all over again.
Try having 10 options stucked on one wheel as opposed to simple decission list.

[ztonkin]

Anathemic wrote...

ztonkin wrote...

While I must admit that they seem to be bringing in a lot of ME features for some reason or another, I think everyone is GOING A LITTLE OVERBOARD with their reactions. Everyone is practically ****ting themselves with fury and the game is still several months away.

I find it amusing that even after BioWare has consistenly delivered AAA games, despite all the worry, for over 15 years now, people are still concerned about what they do with their games.

If anyone, ANYONE, can deliver, it's BioWare. Personally, I'll wait until I see this article for myself and see the debut trailer next month before I even consider worrying about DA2.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 were a let down, I could barely get through one playthrough each.

Well, I wasn't talking about what individual players thought of BioWare's games. I was talking about how sucessful their games have been. Look at their lowest rated game, Jade Empire. It still has an average score that most game companies would kill for. Even DA:O, a game BioWare wasn't expecting to do well, became a huge sucess, and their best-selling game ever. ME2 is one of the best-rated games of all time, and in the top 5 of both PC and 360 games according to Metacritic.

You may not of liked the ME series, but it did well enough to suggest that most did. And that's what BioWare aims for, to appeal to the biggest audience possible. But unlike other developers out there, they really try not to alienate their fanbase and try to keep us all happy (bazaar not counted of course).

Now personally, I love the ME franchise, so all this about ME features being adapted for DA2 is cool with me, but I get it that a lot of people are upset. In the end, I believe that BioWare will deliver once again and prove the naysayers wrong. I also think that it's too early to take up arms against BioWare and it's a smarter option to wait until we know more. The game was only announced this week after all.

[AlanC9]

Sidney wrote...
People act like the dialog wheel is written in hieroglyphics or something. The options make sense and I can only think of one time back in ME that the option didn't make clear the thought you were trying to get across. For people who are so worried about things being dumbed down I think I see a LOT of stupid going on.

I think there were a few more in ME2  -- not so much that the specific intent of the player was being frustrated, but that a bunch of additional information was in the lines as well, which the player sometimes didn't intend. But this was just bad ME2 implementation. Bio doesn't have to screw this up again in DA2.