67 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Going into Canada isn't the hard part, its getting back out that is

[RunCDFirst]

Jestina wrote...

Do I need a Visa to get into Canada?

Yes.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Going into Canada isn't the hard part, its getting back out that is

Don't drink the water. You'll get beaver fever.

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:08 .

[Aetheria]

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Well i'm sure if Bioware wasn't binded by Marketing's chains they would be more than happy to put our worries to rest with some awesome information. I think the main wall between dev to community communication is stuff like NDA's and marketing trying to gradually build up hype and excitement over time. It doesn't help that the community overanalyzes every word they say
looking for hidden meaning.

I don't think it can be totally marketing. For one thing, the game's not done yet. It's understandable that the devs wouldn't want to give us a total reveal when they've still got time to tweak and change the game. Plus, it's not a bad thing to build up excitement in the community and to leave some things to be discovered when we get the game itself. If you were writing a book, you wouldn't go around telling everyone the whole plot before it was out, would you? I know I'd rather have people reviewing my finished work than commenting on a plot outline.

Anyway, speculation is fun. Even though it does devolve into pointless ranting sometimes, it's still fun to build up anticipation for the game - something that's enjoyable in itself and makes finally getting my hands on it all the sweeter.

Modifié par Aetheria, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:10 .

[Jestina]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Going into Canada isn't the hard part, its getting back out that is

Especially after you've invaded an executives office and pooped on his desk.

[Firky]

Thanks for the replies. As I've been watching this whole "gamers vs games industry" thing emerge in recent years (in general, not Dragon Age specifically), I've become interested in what people involved think about it all. All opinions are valid.



@ Aetheria. I love speculation too. I'm assuming you mean like guessing characters and plots etc.



I'm just surprised that "speculation" these days seems to involve posting things about developers/publishers/marketing, some of which are based on experiences/reasoning/rumour, and many which are just straight up misconceptions. I find this forum a bit distressing at times, to be honest.



Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to the issue but I'd love to see a culture shift back to a "easier" relationship between gamers and games industry professionals. (And yes, this forum does have developer input which is really nice.)



I've had a bit of a search around at what Bioware people have posted around the place and it seems like a lot of it is reassurance and patient explanations. (And a lot of stuff gets ignored.) Wouldn't it be nicer if more of their responses were thankyous for glowing praise and discussion of well presented feedback/ideas? (Yes, they do do this, but I mean a higher proportion.)

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Firky, we always appreciate feedback, positive or negative, that is expressed in a reasonable manner.

Just... please don't send it to us in Runic. Or Qunari. Either one will make us cry.

I would have thought you would love feedback in Qunari. Assuming a player would know enough of the language to give you feedback. Perhaps I should try giving feedback in the Dragon Age worlds version of Elven. That would be interesting if possible.

[Xandurpein]

Is it OK to try and second guess thedeveloper? I think it is, but for me it all depends on how it is phrased. Whenever someone posts in absolutes that they know how a developer thinks, and doesn't add any sort of proof other than a vague mention that "everyone knows this or that" I automatically loose repsect for the post, and tend to pay less attention to what is said.

Use the proper english words like "I assume..." or "I believe..." or even "Personally, I feel that..." instead of phrasing your own assumptions as facts, and I will definitely feel a lot more confident in what is written.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:26 .

[Maria13]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Firky, we always appreciate feedback, positive or negative, that is expressed in a reasonable manner.

Just... please don't send it to us in Runic. Or Qunari. Either one will make us cry.

I would have thought you would love feedback in Qunari. Assuming a player would know enough of the language to give you feedback. Perhaps I should try giving feedback in the Dragon Age worlds version of Elven. That would be interesting if possible.

Not enough vocabulary.  But you could try one of the Tolkien varients...

[highcastle]

Aetheria wrote...

ITSSEXYTIME wrote...

Well i'm sure if Bioware wasn't binded by Marketing's chains they would be more than happy to put our worries to rest with some awesome information. I think the main wall between dev to community communication is stuff like NDA's and marketing trying to gradually build up hype and excitement over time. It doesn't help that the community overanalyzes every word they say
looking for hidden meaning.

I don't think it can be totally marketing. For one thing, the game's not done yet. It's understandable that the devs wouldn't want to give us a total reveal when they've still got time to tweak and change the game. Plus, it's not a bad thing to build up excitement in the community and to leave some things to be discovered when we get the game itself. If you were writing a book, you wouldn't go around telling everyone the whole plot before it was out, would you? I know I'd rather have people reviewing my finished work than commenting on a plot outline.

Anyway, speculation is fun. Even though it does devolve into pointless ranting sometimes, it's still fun to build up anticipation for the game - something that's enjoyable in itself and makes finally getting my hands on it all the sweeter.

Bingo. There seems to be some consensus that the marketing department is evil for withholding information when the fact of the matter is, we don't know how much of the game is complete. Some games undergo changes, tweaks, and even rewrites up to the creation of the master. And given the uproar there is whenever a promised feature is removed (think about the release of Awakening and the promise of uploading a dead warden's choices with an Orlesian warden commander), I think BioWare likely wants to air on the side of caution before commiting to many firm details.

And speculation is fun. Of course, at this point we know very little about DA2, and much of that comes from guesswork. And yet folk are still calling Ruined Forever on the franchise. Really? After about 3 days worth of intel? This is the type of speculation we should avoid. It's too soon to call this the worst or the greatest game ever. It's too soon to make judgments of any sort. 

[Rixxencaxx]

I was wondering that bg2 was a lot better of the original one...but i feel that this time things will be different.....we don't know a lot about dragon age 2 and so maybe i am wrong...but i suppose that dao 2 will be a lot similar to me2, a game that i liked but that is a lot different from dao.

Just one last thing....i haven't heard a word about a party.....single hero hack n'slash in the making?

[Ecael]

Kalfear wrote...

how I know is its pretty common knowledge for number of years now some web sites sell their reveiws! ex- Workers from those sites have come out and said so! Do they have agendas? Of course they do but any look at why some games get 10s and others get 7s and, well personally I beleive the stories!

Can we quit with the conspiracy theories already?

Consider this: If major publishers "bought" reviews from websites, why do some of the games they publish still get terrible scores overall? Better yet, why not buy reviews from websites bashing the competition's games?

I refuse to read gaming websites anymore because of the pay for ad space issue. I read freelance writers who actually play the full game before giving it a 10/10 score! LOL, and Ive yet to see a freelancer give any of these 10/10. 9.5/10 games scores that high after they play them.

Here's another thing: If they wanted to draw as much ad revenue as possible, shouldn't they go against the grain and give a review opposite to what most other critics are saying?

If 70 critics give a game an A, they won't get much ad revenue because people will just assume that all the reviews are the same. However, if 1 critic gives the game a basic F (like Jim Sterling with his review on Mass Effect 1), it will draw the most website hits because people want to see why he had to be the exception.

But if you intend for your criticism to be treated seriously by anyone (developers or other fans alike) you should make an effort to express it in the same way you'd wish it would be expressed to yourself.

The golden rule of forum discussion, as stated by David Gaider...

Perhaps I should accuse some of the complainers here of being "bought" by Activision/SEGA/Ubisoft/2K since everyone loves conspiracy theories.



Honestly though, I have enough faith in BioWare that EA doesn't restrict their creativity whatsoever. They're responsible for marketing and distributing their games and nothing more. If they wanted to appeal to a certain crowd, they would advertise it as such, but not force the developers to behave in a certain way.

Modifié par Ecael, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:35 .

[Arttis]

I would love it if fans repsonded to me like i do them.Alas it is never so.Damn hearing morrigan so much is starting to rub off on me.

[kaimanaMM]

David Gaider wrote...

But if you intend for your criticism to be treated seriously by anyone (developers or other fans alike) you should make an effort to express it in the same way you'd wish it would be expressed to yourself.

And don't go pooping on desks!

But seriously, I've watched instead of participating in the DA 2 threads mainly because of the complete vitriol that is being spewed.  It's all well and good to raise concerns, voice feedback and question the story / characters, etc.  But that is a whole 'nother world compared to demanding, yelling, threatening - which will get you about as far here as it would out there I'd wager.

It's not a screaming contest.

Wait and see.  Bioware might surprise you, they might actually know what they're doing.

Unless DA:O, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, NWN, BG and KOTOR were all just flukes.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Firky wrote...

Remember the days when you’d write Lord British a letter in Runic and he’d write you one back?

Sadly I still remember how to write in Runic.

Is it OK to suggest/ask/demand things be included in a sequel?

To suggest and ask, yes. To demand...that's a bit presumptuous (and rude. IMO). I've played a game and I love it, but it's not my baby, so to speak. I think gamers tend to have expectations for a sequel...they want the things they loved in the previous game to still be present in the next, and they can get a bit passionate. Fan is short for fanatic, after all.

Is it OK to guess what a developer/publisher might be thinking?

In a way I think it's ok to guess and speculate...it's probably not ok to throw around accusations and vitriol, however. I'm sure there are a lot of unfounded misconceptions out there, but I confess quite a bit of mistrust for publishers, sad to say. :/ I've seen a sequel to a game I loved on the PC be released only for PS2 because it was bought out by a console company. I've seen a series I loved *completely* remove character creation after 7 games (and four spin-offs), giving the fanbase a only a choice of name, not gender, not appearance, nothing. The fanbase could only speculate why.

Are devs allowed to say 'The publishers made us do it this way'?

Is there a right/wrong way to criticise the game?

I prefer criticisms to be respectful and, if possible, constructive. Combining negative opinions with some positive ones (eg. I loved the game because... but I didn't like these bits because...) also provides a nice balance and shows you don't think a game is 'all bad'. Unless, I suppose, you do think a game is all bad.

Finally, on communication...

I have always been impressed that actual Bioware people read and even reply to posts on their social network. It's brilliant. I know they can't answer everything (whether because they don't know, or they aren't permitted), but I love it.

(The final statement above is rendered moot if it turns out there are really monkeys behind those mysterious keyboards, primates who merely assume staff identities as pseudonyms. Although I will admire their vocabularies, typing skills and patience with unruly fans if this turns out to be the case, as well as Mr Gaider's comment about poop which was clearly a masterful attempt to throw us all off the scent.)

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 juillet 2010 - 12:58 .

[ell46]

Sorry I'm not the most articulate person for written discussion, but to answer your questions

Is it OK to suggest/ask/demand things be included in a
sequel?

Not really unless you can get all players to join in, or you could mostly be hearing from the 'grumpy' ones.

Is it OK to guess what a developer/publisher might be
thinking?

Big NO.  I for one am sick of reading peoples theories about this that and the other, they only seem to get people riled up and upset for the most part and then annoyed and dissapointed when it doesn't happen.

Is there a right/wrong way to criticise the game?

There probably is, but I think people have knee jerk reactions and go on a rant, perhaps they should walk away for a couple of days or 24 hours and think about things.

My own thoughts on DAO2 after a couple of days.

After digesting the 'facts' I've read so far, I have got used to the fact that DAO2 is not going to be a continuation of DAO1 and that it isn't going to become a trilogy like the good old days of D&Ds, so I hope that any reference to old PCs is left in the past, being disappointed once is enough without having my nose rubbed in it.

No problem with only having one race as long as I can customise appearance and choose class and being able to choose female is a bonus, as in the old days all the hero's were male.  I am stricktly a swords, armour, magic, dragons etc RPG'er, who enjoys playing my party like rottweilers eg. there's the enemy, I've given you all you need, go get em.

I am concerned about this
dialogue wheel, as I don't play games like Mass Effect so have no idea
what it's like.

Unless there is honest advertising or I know for sure, how it all works I am not pre-ordering and I won't buy until I know for certain what it's all about, I only fell for that once years ago and never again.  These games are too expensive to buy and bin on the same day.

Modifié par ell46, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:39 .

[Firky]

Yikes. Sorry for the massive bump but I went to bed for 8 hours, as one does, and this thread was on page 7. Busy around here.

@SoL. I think I know which series of 7 games you are talking about. I remember my first year of uni was spent at a friend's house on the "internet" discussing Elizabeth and Abraham and those evilly shaped generators. I felt all rebllious. Now I just miss Brittannia. And I am also fluent in Runic (and possibly Gargish). Much more useful than Japanese or something. /sarcasm

It's a funny one. I'm getting old, obviously. Us 30somethings are the first generation to grow up with gaming. I suppose it's natural for some of us to get emotionally attached. The ranting just doesn't seem useful for either side though.

Also, because us normal gamers will never have the chance to be games developers, I think its understandable that we might feel a bit powerless. I do admit to some hand-wringing when I found out that DAO had no individual NPC backpacks. I loved giving the weapons to Minsc, the eggs to Iolo etc. And was it Arcanum where backpacks were like tetris? DAO backpack still makes me sad but, seriously, it had to be done - for the greater good!


Also, @ Ell46 This is a good point. "Not really unless you can get all players to join in, or you could mostly be hearing from the 'grumpy' ones." I'd be interested in reading some kind of streamlined feedback poll where there was actual numerical figures of who liked this feature or that. It might temper some of the "everyone hates ..." if you could see that opinion was divided. Oh no, I said "streamlined".

Modifié par Firky, 10 juillet 2010 - 11:16 .

[ell46]

Firky - if you are only 30 somethings, believe me you are not the first generation to grow up/old with gaming, I'm way older than that and started my addiction to D&D playing 'Eye of the Beholder' on a Commodore 64, sitting there with graph paper mapping the areas some of which were so complex you could go round and round for many evenings if you didn't. I've saved Brittania countless times and saw Iolo grow old and grey, but we stayed friends I remember visiting him and his wife in the very last game. Back then you had to take care of them, feed them, heal them let them sleep or they died.



I have always become emotionally attached to these tiny little figures on screen and it's always been sad to see them go when the trilogy or series in the case of Ultima came to and end. Back then the best games were always trilogies, but there was the odd single game that was great as well.



Watching the changes over the years has always been very exciting, I can't remember the title, but I remember when one of the Ultima series had sparkly effects in it, WOW I was so excited I made everyone in the family come and have a look.



The one thing I did notice about DAO, was how quickly I played it and still went everywhere did everything etc, it didn't used to be like that I would spend months on a game, because I had to be nosy and open every chest, go in every room, you could go in every house on screen. Perhaps that was because back then you had to actually find everything yourself, there was no tab key or X marks the spot sparkly things.

[Firky]

Hey there. Yeah. I know people older game passionately too. My dad is still a pretty big gamer and he's in his sixties. I'm having trouble getting him into Dragon Age - he's been playing shooters recently.



What I meant was that people of about my age (and younger) have had no period of their lives without games (except those who aren't gamers, obviously). I'm sure for lots of people and gamers that's not such a big deal and gaming doesn't have such a big impact on their lives. My Dad got his first PC in about 1980, when I was about 2, though and gaming pretty much framed my childhood.



I've talked to a fair few gamers of similar age to myself who had a similar gaming history/childhood. Some of us share attitudes/feelings etc to varying degrees. In my experience a lot of us struggle to balance gaming with grown up work/family and we have delusions that (because we've played a lot of games) we should be handed a job in the games industry. (Lucky I found one, even though its only part time, so that legitimizes the amount of time I spend gaming.) Also, there is the whole emotional attachment to games issue and desperate desire for roleplaying, which can go hand in hand with unhealthy escapism and such. And the way we idolize games developers and put them on a pedestal when they are really just people - although often extraordinary people who we admire - but still people and deserve to be treated as such.



I am passionate about this issue because there is a lot of commontary about the evils of gaming (like gaming makes you violent, gaming is a waste of time etc) that is coming from people who aren't gamers and don't understand gaming and growing up with gaming. The people who I consider to be the first real generation of gamers are coming of age now though and I think we have a responsibility to comment on/help create a healthy gaming culture. What I saw when I arrived in this forum didn't strike me as healthy so I wanted to open a dialogue. At least in the Ultima days you could write a letter in Runic and then you had to wait for a response (and the passion to fade). The internet complicates things.



And - yes I am looking forward to "growing old with gaming". Hopefully I can get rid of some adult responsibilities and plug myself into a Tron style retirement home.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Firky wrote...

@SoL. I think I know which series of 7 games you are talking about. I remember my first year of uni was spent at a friend's house on the "internet" discussing Elizabeth and Abraham and those evilly shaped generators. I felt all rebllious. Now I just miss Brittannia. And I am also fluent in Runic (and possibly Gargish). Much more useful than Japanese or something. /sarcasm

Good old Elizabeth and Abraham...heh I don't know if you ever played the original The Bard's Tale, but they key to the ultimate bad guy's room had three geometric parts as well. Good times.

It's a funny one. I'm getting old, obviously. Us 30somethings are the first generation to grow up with gaming. I suppose it's natural for some of us to get emotionally attached. The ranting just doesn't seem useful for either side though.

Well, at least it's not limited to games. People go on passionate rants about books, tv series, movies, football umpires...

Also, because us normal gamers will never have the chance to be games developers, I think its understandable that we might feel a bit powerless. I do admit to some hand-wringing when I found out that DAO had no individual NPC backpacks. I loved giving the weapons to Minsc, the eggs to Iolo etc. And was it Arcanum where backpacks were like tetris? DAO backpack still makes me sad but, seriously, it had to be done - for the greater good!

*laugh* Ah, the joys of digging through the jumbled possessions of seven people attempting to find an abacus. And the times where journals didn't record quests for you, instead requiring some rudimentary doodles on a notepad. Now I would find it hard to go back to the old way, I think.

ell46 wrote...

The one thing I did notice about DAO, was how quickly I played it and still went everywhere did everything etc, it didn't used to be like that I would spend months on a game, because I had to be nosy and open every chest, go in every room, you could go in every house on screen. Perhaps that was because back then you had to actually find everything yourself, there was no tab key or X marks the spot sparkly things.

Good point. We're a lot more spoiled now. We have automapping, quest recording, little sparkles for loot, keys for quickchanging weapons...we don't have to work as hard (manually speaking) to win games.

[Firky]

Hi SoL. I ninja'd you. I'd be interested to know what you think of my post above.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nice thread OP : )



It's always good to hear player-developer communication!

[Niten Ryu]

Is it OK to suggest/ask/demand things be included in a
sequel?

Probably not. If you understand that modern game industry is gargantuan entity, where even the minor change might take ages, it's better not to waste time and write suggestions. Unless you're major shareholder and having casual lunches with John Riccitiello or Frank Gibeau.

"Say Franky-boyo, I think it's bad idea to allow just human character in Dragon Age 2. I'm going to start dumping EA stock unless you make the required changes."

Also, don't worry about it if you get THE GREATEST IDEA EVER™. Most likely some Jr designer has already had that idea and he failed to sell it to the higher ups in corporate ladder. Or someone above him failed. Take comfort that Jr designer probably wanted to throw his monitor outta window and  punch his manager to the face.

Is it OK to guess what a developer/publisher might be
thinking?

Of course it is. Many of the changes are made because of financial realities and if you think like a beancounter, you probably guess several correct answers. Maybe you even beat the people inside the corporation, like what happend in the case of Mythics Warhammer MMOG and ultimately to Mythic itself.

And if you guess wrong, so what. It's not like the grunts in development team or publishing house know any better. They listen the rumours as much as the gamers.

Is there a right/wrong way to criticise the game?

It's always right. For whatever reason. But again, keep those financial realities and huge corporate structure in mind. Even before you write some critique, you most likely already know the answer. Not enough resources, would take too long, didn't have time for extra QA, someone didn't listen to QA, designers probably tested that idea but it was too late in the development cycles ect ect.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Firky wrote...

I've talked to a fair few gamers of similar age to myself who had a similar gaming history/childhood. Some of us share attitudes/feelings etc to varying degrees. In my experience a lot of us struggle to balance gaming with grown up work/family and we have delusions that (because we've played a lot of games) we should be handed a job in the games industry. (Lucky I found one, even though its only part time, so that legitimizes the amount of time I spend gaming.)

I know there are plenty of people who think that way, but I actually never did, not even in a writing capacity, until I worked on a Dungeon Siege mod doing dialogue (for U5:Lazarus of course). Since then I've thought it would be incredibly cool to get paid for that sort of thing.

Also, there is the whole emotional attachment to games issue and desperate desire for roleplaying, which can go hand in hand with unhealthy escapism and such. And the way we idolize games developers and put them on a pedestal when they are really just people - although often extraordinary people who we admire - but still people and deserve to be treated as such.

I've seen roleplayers who live more in D&D than in real life, sadly. As for idolising game devs, I think it's ok to a point. I'd rather see see a writer put on a pedestal than another sportsman, but perhaps I am a tad biassed there. >.> Admiration is nice, so long as it doesn't go all the way to camping in their backyard or thinking they're so awesome they can do no wrong.

I am passionate about this issue because there is a lot of commontary about the evils of gaming (like gaming makes you violent, gaming is a waste of time etc) that is coming from people who aren't gamers and don't understand gaming and growing up with gaming. The people who I consider to be the first real generation of gamers are coming of age now though and I think we have a responsibility to comment on/help create a healthy gaming culture. What I saw when I arrived in this forum didn't strike me as healthy so I wanted to open a dialogue. At least in the Ultima days you could write a letter in Runic and then you had to wait for a response (and the passion to fade). The internet complicates things.

Well, I think it's pretty safe to say that not all gamers of our generation are mature, and those who are are probably outnumbered. The concept of helping to create a healthy gaming culture actually reminds me of a Penny Arcade strip from a while back...while it's a noble cause, it would be an exercise in futility, sadly. Annonymity, and likely the feeling of being safe from getting a punch to the face, is a haven for people who like to screw around and be nasty.

That said, I tip my metaphorical hat to all the decent gamers out there who do try to create a friendly, healthy atmosphere, despite the odds.

[Statulos]

David Gaider wrote...

Firky wrote...
Is it OK to suggest/ask/demand things be included in a
sequel?

Suggest and ask? Of course. Demand? Well, I guess that depends on your sense of entitlement.

We're always willing to entertain suggestions, so long as people realize we're going to decide for ourselves in the end. Those suggestions will be listened to based on their merit-- as well as how they're presented. It's a strange internet fallacy that suggests it doesn't matter how a point is made, that only being right matters. I don't know about anyone else, but if someone were to come into my office and scream at me and then poop on my desk I probably wouldn't care how good their point was. Communication is about more than just expressing opinions at each other.

Is it OK to guess what a developer/publisher might be thinking?

Why wouldn't this be okay? I'm not sure you'll be right, but it might be an interesting exercise to try. Being second-guessed kind of comes with the territory.

Is there a right/wrong way to criticise the game?

Personally? If I'm about to criticize someone I always try to find something good to tell them as well... or at least try to be as constructive as I can. I find people are more willing to listen that way. Like I said above, it would be wrong to think that developers are beholden to listen to anyone's opinion... your contribution here depends entirely on what you make of it.

Not that everyone comes here to contribute, or to make their criticism count for anything more than venting their anger/disappointment. And that's fine, I suppose. But if you intend for your criticism to be treated seriously by anyone (developers or other fans alike) you should make an effort to express it in the same way you'd wish it would be expressed to yourself.

I´ll take Mr. Gaider´s words and post a rational answer and comment.

-Origins was never stated to be the beggining of a trilogy or something similar; however, I expected Dragon Age II to be the next chapter of my warden; hopefully the circle closing arround the Wardens themselves and his/her personaly tale. Awakening felt like a bridge to something else, to a possible conclussion.
However, I think Bioware could very well consider this and consider that they do not have the resources to accomplish a closing of the chapter. Is there hope for a closing of what started in Origins? Sure, why not? Maybe not now, but in the future...

-Jump at the cliff with Dragon Age II. Awakening had some nice experiments like the development of the Vigil (it was quite simple and subtle, yes; but it was there). Seems like the conversation system is going to be alteered. I just say go for it. Innovate, change and implement more variety. I posted in other threads how I loved the Keep in NW2 and how much I´d have liked more depth and detail for the Vigil. Well, it would be nice to get something to develop further and deeper (like the Normandy in ME2) event to the point of alteering its view and posibilities.

-Dragon Age is not the Darkspawn and the Wardens. It´s a vast environment and chasing monsters against all odds is nice, but other plots and things can be cool too.

-We do not know about the future of Dragon Age: Origins. Yes, we have seen a nice load of DLC´s and even an expansion so... Who knows if we will get the final chapter as an expansion? Basicaly Throne of Bhaal, the closing of Baldur´s Gate was an expansion of BG2; not a game in itself. That would be excelent and well, I´d like to close the stories of the companions and my main character.

All in all, I think people complain not just because DA2 gives you a more enclosed character, but also because DA2 starts a new tale when the previous is not over. I´d just say, finish the first tale and go for another.

[ell46]

Statulos wrote...

-Origins was never stated to be the beggining of a trilogy or something similar; however, I expected Dragon Age II to be the next chapter of my warden; hopefully the circle closing arround the Wardens themselves and his/her personaly tale. Awakening felt like a bridge to something else, to a possible conclussion.
However, I think Bioware could very well consider this and consider that they do not have the resources to accomplish a closing of the chapter. Is there hope for a closing of what started in Origins? Sure, why not? Maybe not now, but in the future...

Can I just say that a lot of the old D&D trilogies were never stated to be trilogies either, they just always seemed to come in 3's hence the trilogy, which I think was propably a term more used by gamers than the game makers.

As you say in different words and the fact is that DAO feels unfinished for a lot of people.