167 réponses à ce sujet

[Nhadalie]

Ladybright wrote...

The game spans a decade, and presumably starts around the time the Warden reaches Lothering. I don't think there'd have been enough time for Morrigan's daughter to have grown up.

This. DA2 begins during the blight, when Hawke flees from Lothering. The game will continue 10 years after that. It is physically impossible for the woman to be Morrigan's baby. A 10 year old can never look like a 30 or 40 year old woman. Having the arch demon's soul would not make the child grow that quickly.(A child whose gender we don't even know. It's possible that the child is male. Because Urthemiel was male.)


Also, in the Game Informer spread, it states that Flemeth will return. The safest assumption at the moment is that the woman is either Flemeth or Morrigan.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:40 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Master Shiori wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Span means to extend does it not?

It means the story in DA2 runs over a course of 10 years, not that it starts 10 years after DA:O.

If you actually bothered to read the official information, you'd know that Hawke was a grown man capable of fighting when he fled Lothering and Ferelden during the Blight. Therefore his adventures can start as soon as he arrives in the Free Marches.

That means the first 5 years of DA2 take place at the same time as Origins and Awakening, but in a different country.

I do get what you're saying here. 

Until we know who Hawk is/was in Lothering, you're assuming he/she is an adult refugee, I'm going on the assumption Hawk can also be one of the children in Lothering.  It's obvious the story starts in the Free Marches.  Unless they open the game with a cut scene depicting his escape and we get to see Lothering saked.  We have no way of knowing if Hawk is an adult or a child when our wardens & companions passed by.  This is what I mean by the story jumping 10 years into Hawk's future.  Understand me now!  

Our wardens interacted with people of all ages in Lothering.  Young, old, middle age from all walks of life.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[Lord Gremlin]

I know it, I know! It's the Maker. The Maker is female and a dragon. And she's back. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, and with same amount of destruction caused.

[Giltspur]

Wonderllama4 wrote...

She's too young to be Flemeth. lol

Well, Flemeth would have inhabited a new body or possibly have renewed her current body or reconsituted herself after you killed her or...something fantastical.

Consider the similarity between the names 'Flemeth' and 'Yemeth'.  It's a lot like "Female Yemeth".  Yemeth was a character that's alluded to in Planescape: Torment, a game that no doubt is respected by Bioware's writers.  Here's an item from that game:

"The Pendant of Yemeth is constructed of some silvery metal. Six crystals
radiate from the skull in a circle, forming a crown of sorts. A leather
lanyard is looped though an eyehole attached to the top of the skull.



The item is named for its creator, a sorcerer of a by-gone age. Though
Yemeth's power was great, time began to take its toll on him; he began
to grow weak and sodden. The Pendant was commissioned by the dying
wizard to serve as a vessel for souls -- souls which Yemeth himself
would draw from dying mortals, and later use to power his waning
life-force. Yemeth was eventually slain in a battle, destroyed utterly,
and the Pendant was lost. Sages said that, even if the Pendant were to
be recovered, no mortal knows the secrets of its use."

For all we know Flemeth is a very old demon that started the Blights, consumes Old God souls and is planning to pierce the veil in such a way as lead in a demon invasion into Thedas in an attack on the Maker's creation.  

Modifié par Giltspur, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:46 .

[jlb524]

I agree that Flemeth is the most plausible candidate atm.



No matter what the player decided to do with her in DA:O, she should have a new body 10 years later in DA2. If you killed her in her old form, she needs a new body. If you didn't kill her, she was still in need of a new body as her old was was pretty damn old and close to death.



So, she has a new body. Perhaps this woman was a 'sister' witch of Morrigan's that she was unaware of?

[Bootsykk]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Juneya wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Juneya wrote...

Everyone assumes that it's her child.

Sorry, but it can't be her child.

Some players never concieved a child with Morrigan using the ritual.

Bioware wouldn't make it her child with complete disreguard to player's decisions, unless somewhere soon after the battle Morrigan somehow found a dragon and decided to screw it senseless, or was just "given a baby" to her by one of the old gods in the fade.

Remember how they did that regardless by not implementing a proper explanation as to why the Ultimate Sacrifice Warden was alive again during Awakening? Well, yeah...

Um, remember how the Ultimate Sacrifice Warden was actually the Ritual Warden during Awakening if you decided to play them? You didn't have to play them at all if it bothered you. Therefore, the decision was NOT made at all without reguard to your choices! You made the choice to start a game with the Ultimate Sacrifice Warden that was alive during awakening without an properly implemented explanation.

Besides, that was a rather short expansion with a rushed feel. I kind of doubt that Bioware would give us the same kind of half-thought-out process for an entirely new game...

Guess that's one way to look at it. To me, however, it seems to imply that the Ritual Warden was indeed canon. As does this new dragon lady we've been seeing.

I'd rather see thing the other way around, but alas.

Actually, this I agree with to an extent. If there is a possibility that she is Morrigan's child, however, I think it would have to be entirely up to the player to make that connection... perhaps a scenario in which the character, if she is going to speak to you and go into her background, would mention that she was born to a very powerful mage. If she is also supposed to be an old god reborn, it may be mentioned that a ritual involving blood magic is what allowed this. But Bioware wouldn't be so sloppy as to actually confirm that.

It's a little bit like the weird similarities between the stories of Flemeth, Andraste, and the birth of the very first mages. After a lot of reading, I myself have come to believe that there is much more to Andraste and her siege, as well as the maker, then is fabled in the game, and that perhaps Flemeth is actually Andraste herself. But this is based on assumptions and crafting together my own interpretation of the storyline. It could be the same way for this girl.

[Jimmy Fury]

I think people are getting too hung up on the old god bit. I see nothing that says she has to be an old god, just a powerful mage with a connection to a dragon.

Could just as easily be Morrigan a few years down the road after she's had more time to read the grimoire.

If we believe enough time has passed for Morrigan's child to grow into a young woman (which I still say is possible because too many of these time-frame arguments are flawed) then enough time has passed for Morrigan to go grey and wield massive power.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Nhadalie wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

The game spans a decade, and presumably starts around the time the Warden reaches Lothering. I don't think there'd have been enough time for Morrigan's daughter to have grown up.

This. DA2 begins during the blight, when Hawke flees from Lothering. The game will continue 10 years after that. It is physically impossible for the woman to be Morrigan's baby. A 10 year old can never look like a 30 or 40 year old woman. Having the arch demon's soul would not make the child grow that quickly.(A child whose gender we don't even know. It's possible that the child is male. Because Urthemiel was male.)


Also, in the Game Informer spread, it states that Flemeth will return. The safest assumption at the moment is that the woman is either Flemeth or Morrigan.

I don't see why its not impossible for a 10 year old to look like a 30 or 40 year old after all she is the possible child of Morrigan and is an old god. A theory of which the tainted baby old god grows faster due to the taint or whatever is in her or REMEMBER that Morrigan and Flemeth were both SHAPESHIFTERS, it could be possible that the child has the capabilities to Shapeshift as well, a conversation with Morrigan states that Morrigan can shapeshift into other humans but she doesn't as she has nothing to gain from it and etc, The child has all the reasons to shapeshift into an older form, 1) Morrigan is dead due to something and shapeshifting into an old version of herself or someone else is for survival to hide her true form of a 10 year old child 2) The child is deformed or something therefore she shapeshifts to hide her true form.

[Jimmy Fury]

Unrefined-Nemesis wrote...

Nhadalie wrote...

Ladybright wrote...

The game spans a decade, and presumably starts around the time the Warden reaches Lothering. I don't think there'd have been enough time for Morrigan's daughter to have grown up.

This. DA2 begins during the blight, when Hawke flees from Lothering. The game will continue 10 years after that. It is physically impossible for the woman to be Morrigan's baby. A 10 year old can never look like a 30 or 40 year old woman. Having the arch demon's soul would not make the child grow that quickly.(A child whose gender we don't even know. It's possible that the child is male. Because Urthemiel was male.)


Also, in the Game Informer spread, it states that Flemeth will return. The safest assumption at the moment is that the woman is either Flemeth or Morrigan.

I don't see why its not impossible for a 10 year old to look like a 30 or 40 year old after all she is the possible child of Morrigan and is an old god. A theory of which the tainted baby old god grows faster due to the taint or whatever is in her or REMEMBER that Morrigan and Flemeth were both SHAPESHIFTERS, it could be possible that the child has the capabilities to Shapeshift as well, a conversation with Morrigan states that Morrigan can shapeshift into other humans but she doesn't as she has nothing to gain from it and etc, The child has all the reasons to shapeshift into an older form, 1) Morrigan is dead due to something and shapeshifting into an old version of herself or someone else is for survival to hide her true form of a 10 year old child 2) The child is deformed or something therefore she shapeshifts to hide her true form.

There's also nothing anywhere that says the game occurs ten years after lothering. That's just people who don't comprehend the meaning of "an adventure that will take place across an entire decade"

[Nhadalie]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Unrefined-Nemesis wrote...


I don't see why its not impossible for a 10 year old to look like a 30 or 40 year old after all she is the possible child of Morrigan and is an old god. A theory of which the tainted baby old god grows faster due to the taint or whatever is in her or REMEMBER that Morrigan and Flemeth were both SHAPESHIFTERS, it could be possible that the child has the capabilities to Shapeshift as well, a conversation with Morrigan states that Morrigan can shapeshift into other humans but she doesn't as she has nothing to gain from it and etc, The child has all the reasons to shapeshift into an older form, 1) Morrigan is dead due to something and shapeshifting into an old version of herself or someone else is for survival to hide her true form of a 10 year old child 2) The child is deformed or something therefore she shapeshifts to hide her true form.

There's also nothing anywhere that says the game occurs ten years after lothering. That's just people who don't comprehend the meaning of "an adventure that will take place across an entire decade"

Riight. Have you read about the Game Informer spread? The Game Informer spread said that DA2 would consist of a backward narrative. And it's been strongly hinted at that the game will begin with Hawke leaving Lothering. Since the game occurs over the span of 10 years, the easiest assumption is that those ten years begins at Lothering.

It's possible that the 10 years starts long after Lothering. But I don't think it's likely. I don't think a child alone, or even a teenager would be able to find his/her way to the Free Marches, escape the on coming horde, and never have to fight a single battle against the darkspawn in that time frame.


And it's also been said that Flemeth will return. No where has it been suggested by the Devs that the woman is Morrigan's child.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 10 juillet 2010 - 04:56 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Nhadalie wrote...
Riight. Have you read about the Game Informer spread?

No I have not because I haven't gotten it yet. I'm a hardcore skeptic and am waiting to see it with my own eyes before I believe anything posted on the internet that isn't a photograph of the pages (which isn't allowed so...)

The Game Informer spread said that DA2 would consist of a backward narrative. And it's been strongly hinted at that the game will begin with Hawke leaving Lothering. Since the game occurs over the span of 10 years, the easiest assumption is that those ten years begins at Lothering.

First, strong hints are still nothing but speculation.
Secondly nothing said the game will begin with hawke leaving Lothering, even the alleged GI info. It said "Dragon Age II begins as the events of Origins are still taking place" that could just as easily be the final battle and Morrigan leaving.
And, yet again, Game and Adventure are two different things. The official site only says that the adventure takes place across a decade. It never says the entire game and all of the narration is set in a 10 year time span. So no, that's not the easiest assumption to make.

It's possible that the 10 years starts long after Lothering. But I don't think it's likely. I don't think a child alone, or even a teenager would be able to find his/her way to the Free Marches, escape the on coming horde, and never have to fight a single battle against the darkspawn in that time frame.

Who said he was alone? Read the official page again.
"You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home."
Few means more than 1. Nothing says he traveled alone.

And it's also been said that Flemeth will return. No where has it been suggested by the Devs that the woman is Morrigan's child.

Nowhere has it been suggested that she's not. Nor has it been suggested she's Flemeth. Nor has it been suggested she's even on your side. Nor has it been suggested she's not just FemHawke.
The devs are being tight lipped on everything, a lack of suggestions from them means very little.

[CrybabyXD]

interesting i do hope that the demon baby makes an aperance in da2.

[mosaiclobster]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Phinub wrote...

Arius23 wrote...

Just because you/Alistair/Logain didn't sleep with Morrigan doesn't mean she didn't conceive a child that night.

Are we all forgetting that another Grey Warden by the name of Riordan was staying at Redcliffe Castle that night as well?

Morrigan had a mission to accomplish and I wouldn't put it past her to sneak into Riordan's quarters that night and seduce him, or convince him, or even mind control him into sleeping with her.

We already have confirmation that Flemeth is going to be in the game, so i think it's obvious that Morrigan will be in it as well. They will make ways for her to have the child if you didn't make that choice.

The Warden that conceived her child will also have to kill the Archdemon personally for the ritual to succeed. As obvious side effect, they will not die while doing so.
I think we would've noticed.

I don't think that's true. You can have Alistair do the DR with Morrigan and then kill the Archdemon yourself, and Morrigan doesn't have a problem with that. It's the dark magic that Morrigan does that allows the foetus to act as a beacon for the Archdemon's soul. That could still happen with Riordan's baby.

Right, but this just proves how little it makes sense. If Morrigan's ritual was successful regardless of your character's wishes, then you shouldn't die when you deal the final blow since if she was impregnated it would act as a beacon for the arch demon. AKA a US should still never be possible. The old god's soul dies with you when you die.

[Time4Tiddy]

Alrighty I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with a theory that would actually shock 90% of the current gaming community.



They say there is some overlap with DA:O, and we'll see events from a different perspective. How about this. The dragon lady is actually a canonized female Warden from DA:O. Bioware retcons so that she was a mage, survived due to the Dark Ritual, slept with Alistair at some point during the game so that she was pregnant, and it's HER fetus that absorbs the archdemon's soul, not Morrigan's, since she was closer to the archdemon when it died. Morrigan's ritual was nonspecific, just needing a Warden baby for the transfer - and Morrigan didn't consider that the Warden might have been pregnant at the time.



Now THAT would truly be shocking and turn the world on it's end.

[LPPrince]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

Alrighty I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with a theory that would actually shock 90% of the current gaming community.

They say there is some overlap with DA:O, and we'll see events from a different perspective. How about this. The dragon lady is actually a canonized female Warden from DA:O. Bioware retcons so that she was a mage, survived due to the Dark Ritual, slept with Alistair at some point during the game so that she was pregnant, and it's HER fetus that absorbs the archdemon's soul, not Morrigan's, since she was closer to the archdemon when it died. Morrigan's ritual was nonspecific, just needing a Warden baby for the transfer - and Morrigan didn't consider that the Warden might have been pregnant at the time.

Now THAT would truly be shocking and turn the world on it's end.

Sten- No.

[Arttis]

FLemmeth after all has been chaning into younger bodies for a long time.I see no reason why she can not return as a younger woman.

Question is if you killed flemmeth how did she survive?

I guess just another secret for flemmeth.

[Time4Tiddy]

LPPrince wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...

Alrighty I'm going to throw my hat in the ring with a theory that would actually shock 90% of the current gaming community.

They say there is some overlap with DA:O, and we'll see events from a different perspective. How about this. The dragon lady is actually a canonized female Warden from DA:O. Bioware retcons so that she was a mage, survived due to the Dark Ritual, slept with Alistair at some point during the game so that she was pregnant, and it's HER fetus that absorbs the archdemon's soul, not Morrigan's, since she was closer to the archdemon when it died. Morrigan's ritual was nonspecific, just needing a Warden baby for the transfer - and Morrigan didn't consider that the Warden might have been pregnant at the time.

Now THAT would truly be shocking and turn the world on it's end.

Sten- No.

W/E.  I doubt it's likely, but it's fun to speculate creatively instead of just regurgitating Flemeth for 8 pages.  But thanks for your thoughtful response. 

[Pocketgb]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!