321 réponses à ce sujet

[Lintanis]

 Cant wait .      We have seven months of game information to come, just hope they dont tell us too much,  would like a few surprises when playing the game 

[Ponce de Leon]

David Gaider wrote...

I think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

(dear god I am about to be rude with one of the "big guys")
Ahem.
You remember your game, Baldur's Gate perhaps? Because in the last couple of years you are like (note the LIKE) denying it was made by you. You said Dragon Age was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. It was more or less true. (more less than more btw). Now you are making sequel to what was the spiritual successor of the possibly best game you ever made and possibly the best game you made for the next 50 years.
Now you are making DA2, which sounds a lot like spiritual successor to the first... only in my mind though I guess.
What was almost revolutionary in Origins you are taking away in DA2. The more freedom you get, the less you want it in its sequel?
Hell, DAO had almost 10 hours of different character content! (1.5 hours for each origin). Now you are taking this away.
I understand it's not Origins 2. I understand you want to do what's best (for the better or worse).
What I liked of DAO was not the blight, or the damned hero that comes and saves the world (AGAIN!) but rather the freedom in character development. You can be a ruthless dwarf assassin to a flowerpicking natureloving elf.
In DA2 you put us the base character with its origin fixed already. He/she has the background already. Like Shepard did. So it's not a ROLE PLAYING game we are looking at, but I'd rather say a PLAYING game where our ROLE was chosen already. To make a RPG we must bend and twist our character since it's beginning. Baldur's Gate gave us that, from the innocent kid in a library fortress to a legend. You could go on missions to kill cats, but it was ultimately the player's choice, it was the player's character. The first 20 years were up to the writers, then it was up to the player. But the part of the writers was less important than what the player had to do.

Now we have some years of the writers which determine our, and I repeat OUR character already, so we shape it to what the character is already, not to what the character will be.

That is all... and if you don't understand it... I will write it in my mother tongue.

[drkshine86]

I'm all for choice but if I really wanted to experience true role playing I'd just lookup a local spot to play some Dungeons and Dragons or World of Darkness. You get even more choice then DA:O and there's a social aspect to boot!

[BruceLEE_22]

Whatever we say in here about the game wont affect developers!

You should ALL stop complaining and have little FAITH in our dear bioware,because I am sure they wont screw UP!

We are all gonna miss our PC WARDEN,but get over it!

They can only make it better like ME2 compared to ME1...

So Bioware we are in good hands,and I know you won't let us down even if I am the only one who thinks and have so much trust in YOU!

Hope you will read my post and see that not all of the fans are pessimistic!

[FeanortheBrave]

'shrugs' Sequels always change SOME mechanics of the original games. Sometimes it is detrimental sometimes it is for the best. We just have to wait and see; making a bazillion posts about how disappointed you are is pointless without knowing EVERYTHING.

[Sable Rhapsody]

dark-lauron wrote...
(dear god I am about to be rude with one of the "big guys")
Ahem.
You remember your game, Baldur's Gate perhaps? Because in the last couple of years you are like (note the LIKE) denying it was made by you. You said Dragon Age was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. It was more or less true. (more less than more btw). Now you are making sequel to what was the spiritual successor of the possibly best game you ever made and possibly the best game you made for the next 50 years.
Now you are making DA2, which sounds a lot like spiritual successor to the first... only in my mind though I guess.
What was almost revolutionary in Origins you are taking away in DA2. The more freedom you get, the less you want it in its sequel?
Hell, DAO had almost 10 hours of different character content! (1.5 hours for each origin). Now you are taking this away.
I understand it's not Origins 2. I understand you want to do what's best (for the better or worse).
What I liked of DAO was not the blight, or the damned hero that comes and saves the world (AGAIN!) but rather the freedom in character development. You can be a ruthless dwarf assassin to a flowerpicking natureloving elf.
In DA2 you put us the base character with its origin fixed already. He/she has the background already. Like Shepard did. So it's not a ROLE PLAYING game we are looking at, but I'd rather say a PLAYING game where our ROLE was chosen already. To make a RPG we must bend and twist our character since it's beginning. Baldur's Gate gave us that, from the innocent kid in a library fortress to a legend. You could go on missions to kill cats, but it was ultimately the player's choice, it was the player's character. The first 20 years were up to the writers, then it was up to the player. But the part of the writers was less important than what the player had to do.

Now we have some years of the writers which determine our, and I repeat OUR character already, so we shape it to what the character is already, not to what the character will be.

That is all... and if you don't understand it... I will write it in my mother tongue.

Um...I'm assuming you've forgotten the background of the PC of Baldur's Gate.  The background of the Baldur's Gate protagonist isn't much more flexible than Hawke's.  You grow up in a set location with set NPCs that you interact with and a VERY VERY set parentage.  The Baldur's Gate series even canonized your party from BG1 upon import to BG2.  If you're going to argue that your actions in the game matter more than the Baldur's Gate character's first 20 years of life and parentage, I think I played an entirely different game than you did, because Gorion and Bhaal were sure as hell plot-critical when I played it.  More plot-critical than any decision the PC ever made.

I'm not necessarily saying that this kind of fixed backstory is a GOOD thing, mind you.  I have mixed feelings about it myself.  But jf you're going to knock the devs for failing to make DA2 more like the BG series...I hate to break it to you, but DA2 is far more like the BG series in terms of character customization than DA:O ever was.  The only additional piece of customization in the BG series is race.  Honestly, the only way DA2 could be AS restrictive as BG in terms of background and background impact on the game would be if you did turn out to be Morrigan's God-baby.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:08 .

[OriginsIsBest]

David Gaider wrote...

I think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

 I agree with lucy.Everything I have heard so far about this game ... EVERYTHING I dont like it. I love Origins so much one of my best games. Its suppose to be OUR fantasy RPG, not yours.

I hate Mass effect dialogs and I know Bioware are going down that route with this ( like lelianas song )

When people see dragon age 2 on a shelf in a store they are going to think " Omg Dragon age 2 yes! I can continue my story" Put when you pick everything for them, Name, Voice and Race. There is going to be alot of disapointed faces.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Gambient wrote...
Did you even bother to read what Sable Rhapsody posted? It was never promised by BioWare that the Warden was the hero of all the Dragon Age games, so it is only sensible not to expect to play as your old hero from DA: O.

It's ok, I've gotten used to the futility of correcting people on the Internet   I just have something of a pathological need to correct mistakes I see.  Maybe I should be an English teacher.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Sometimes I really wonder if the game community is just bi-polar or what

Allmost of us agreed that the best RPG game EVER was (and IS) Planescape Torment. Well, in that game not only you had a character with a presettled background but you couldn't even choose anything, ANYTHING of him.. race, gender, name (or better you had no name at all cause he was "Nameless One"), physical aspect, and he was also UGLY !! Despite of it, thanks to the lore,to the beautiful story and to the amazing amount of dialogues it was able to give us a wonderful game experience which lead all of us to keep it forever PS in hour hearts and to consider it a gem in the history of RPG games

And now I see the same community saying that BW is ruining the RPG gaming experience just because they are giving you a character which is just partially presettled, which is more or less what happened in every other RPG game we have played before..

I think that in a RPG game the development of the character is one of the most important thing if not the MOST important. But this alone, it's not enough to make a RPG a GREAT RPG, because you must also have a great story which support the development and the personal history of your character.

Therefore my suggest is "calm down, wait a moment and see", because I am 100% sure that if they decided to do such a thing it was just because they find that Hawke was the ideal choice for the kind of story they had in their mind. The origins were a great element but they worked well with the kind of story they wrote for DA:O. For this new story they probably just found there was another choice which fitted better.

Come on.. Would you really like to see something like NWN2? Where you can choose your race and you begin the game as the step-son of Daeghun and he was an ELF. And I played my first character as a DROW and the second one as a DWARF. Men, I spent my first hours of gameplay having the wish of asking him.. "Hey Daeghun.. Are you really really sure you are my father and I am your son?"

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:36 .

[Ponce de Leon]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Um...I'm assuming you've forgotten the background of the PC of Baldur's Gate.  The background of the Baldur's Gate protagonist isn't much more flexible than Hawke's.  You grow up in a set location with set NPCs that you interact with and a VERY VERY set parentage.  The Baldur's Gate series even canonized your party from BG1 upon import to BG2.  If you're going to argue that your actions in the game matter more than the Baldur's Gate character's first 20 years of life and parentage, I think I played an entirely different game than you did, because Gorion and Bhaal were sure as hell plot-critical when I played it.  More plot-critical than any decision the PC ever made.

I'm not necessarily saying that this kind of fixed backstory is a GOOD thing, mind you.  I have mixed feelings about it myself.  But jf you're going to knock the devs for failing to make DA2 more like the BG series...I hate to break it to you, but DA2 is far more like the BG series in terms of character customization than DA:O ever was.  The only additional piece of customization in the BG series is race.  Honestly, the only way DA2 could be AS restrictive as BG in terms of background and background impact on the game would be if you did turn out to be Morrigan's God-baby.

If Hawke is going to be like Shepard, then it has much, much much LESS customization than Baldur's Gate.
In Baldur's Gate you have 20 years fixed of training and teachings in a library. Like a fresh person out of high school.
Here you seem to have a much bigger past. Which might predetermin what you are and what you'll become. In Baldur's Gate after Candlekeep you have your own way. Kill peasants, or be the hero in everyone's eyes. Not forgetting that through Dialogue options, in Baldur's Gate 2, you can chose your paths in Baldur's Gate 1 (pretty much what KotOR2 did). For example, when you meet Drizzt (apart from the fact that if you killed him, he WILL remember you), you have more options : 1) I helped you, 2) I don't know you 3) I tried attacking you.
Same with Xzar : 1) Do I know you? 2) What are you doing here?! 3) Arent' you supposed to be dead? 
Same with Tazok. Same with Minsc (you can chose to not know him) and same with Edwin. The only two options that are predetermined in BG 2 are Imoen (which you are forced to know one way or another) and Jaheria (which I approach with the fireball option).

Also, if you helped Viconia in Baldur's Gate 1, she will remember that in BG2. Even Calahan will remember you (or rather, you him) if you export a Baldur's Gate 1 character. And there are many more I am probably forgetting. So Baldur's Gate, aside from the 20 years past in Candlkeep and the trip to Amn has had much more freedom than even Dragon Age (where you too spend your youth in your Origin, and after that it's up to you).

[Ticladesign]

“The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme. Rather than try to mimic the PC experience on consoles, Dragon Age II has a battle system more tailored to the strengths of the PS3 and 360.”

LeSigh. Though it sounds okay.. I still have mixed emotions. Too many console games ported to PC have resulted into disaster.

Modifié par Ticladesign, 10 juillet 2010 - 10:38 .

[Lord Gremlin]

David Gaider wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I find it's a change that I just don't understand - why do Mass Effect dialogue system, what is the point? If I have a good explanation, maybe I can understand it. It's upsetting for me, because I like Dragon Age, I love it. This feels like you are betraying Dragon Age fans. I don't see the point of completely changing things, it's silly and it really does upset me. like, really. I am actually really sad right now.

I hope that's not true. I might understand how some people who enjoyed every part of Dragon Age: Origins-- the bad along with the good-- might not like even the mere mention of change, but it's my experience that any system comes with its advantages as well as disadvantages. I'd be glad to discuss some of them with you... once we've even said what our implementation of these systems will be like. That information will come in time.

I think the point here is that some people enjoyed DAO mainly because of some specific parts, that differ it from other games. Some specific parts. For me, for example, implementing dialogue wheel literally kills any enjoyment I could have with this game. That said, I hated Mass Effect. Yes, it's entirely possible for a person to hate ME and consider it crap and yet love Dragon Age. One thing I can't stand in RPGs is when your character have personality of his own apart from what you choose for him. What I hated in DAO is when you character have a facial expression that doesn't fit in my play style. Like sad face when he sees that douche Cailan nailed to a darkspawn totem. I wanted to be able to laugh at him... Well, anyway

I must agree that any new system has advantages and disadvantages. However, I know that I hated dialogue system in ME. For now I can't imagine how it may be altered for DAO to actually fit.

[TMZuk]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Sometimes I really wonder if the game community is just bi-polar or what

Allmost of us agreed that the best RPG game EVER was (and IS) Planescape Torment. Well, in that game not only you had a character with a presettled background but you couldn't even choose anything, ANYTHING of him.. race, gender, name (or better you had no name at all cause he was "Nameless One"), physical aspect, and he was also UGLY !! Despite of it, thanks to the lore,to the beautiful story and to the amazing amount of dialogues it was able to give us a wonderful game experience which lead all of us to keep it forever PS in hour hearts and to consider it a gem in the history of RPG games

That is unfair. If it was the first game in the series, it could be all right.  But now we have already had DA:O, and we've been given nothing even resembling closure on our characters. just a few vague lines at DA:A's epilogue, hinting at things to come.

Anyway, Torment was not voiceacted, and was anything but linear. While I don't know about the linearty, I do know that it'll be voiceacted, thus creating "Hawke" for me, just like "Shepard" in ME. . And if ME2 is anything to go by, if DA:A'a -awful- dialogue system is what they intend, it's going to be as flat and linear as ME2.

Finally, as much as I liked PS:Toment, I played it through once. BG and BG2 I still play.

[Lucy Glitter]

*cuddles DL*

[Onac Proudmoore]

Well, just to add my own oppinion as well... I fear VO in Dragon Age 2.

As some other people before me noted in Mass Effect we didn't really played a character. Of course, Mass Effect is a great game with a good storyline, but I've played through it twice with different characters and... they just felt the same. Shepard always remains Shepard. I'm not sure if it is because of the voice over, but it surely has a part in it.
In ME we couldn't really play personalities. We played with a given character who already had her own characteristics, being a natural and solid leader who never questions herself and also her emotions were... kinda given for us.
Of course we could influence her decisions and feelings with the dialogue wheel, but the experience was nowhere near the one which Dragon Age gave to us.

In Dragon Age each time I start a new character, it feels completely different and thus gives a unique experience. Of course my character didn't react so cinematically as in ME to the situations, but I really felt like he did. Because even though the reactions were not seen on the screen they happened in my head.

For example if I feel that my character is shocked, but then Shepard says something in her cold and commanding voice than the feeling of being shocked is blown away. In Dragon Age there was nothing to ruin that.

Still I think that VO is a good thing, just... I fear that it may take away from Dragon Age something which I've really liked in it and that was being able to really play my own unique character. But I hope that Bioware will hear the voices of those who are concerned and find a way around this. Hawke shouldn't be like Shepard in my oppinion. It would be nice to choose whether we want a harsh character made out of him/her or maybe a softer one, etc.

[allistare]

In all these fourms rooms people judge and discard Dao 2 comparing it with Mass effect well Masse effect is trilogy and when the part 3 coms out it ends there But Dragon age is never been said to be trilogy so it will be always new and fresh but the story is on us to develop plus why the judge the game ist not even out jet Wait for first gamplay for screenhots there you will see how the game looks like or better buy it play it and speak your maind this is to soon to judge smothenig that is not even finished I love DA:O and DA:A its epic game And DA:2 will be also so lover down you expetations and wishes and wait for the game ist simple BIOWARE KEEP UP A GOOD WORK

[OriginsIsBest]

David Gaider wrote...

I think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

Not sorry enough...

[Rogue Unit]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 No, really, you managed to get rid of most of the things Dragon Age fans, and others liked about the game, and made it into fantasy Mass Effect.

Seriously, good work. I can't even follow the writers or designers anymore, because you have let me down so much. You have a crapload of fans who love your games, and you just screw them over. I was holding on a string yesterday, I was excited, but I was worried. What the hell is the point of wiping out most of the things about the first Dragon Age? What, tell me, please? You had Mass Effect players saying they wanted a voiced PC, they wanted better graphics, but really? You know people like to complain, you know people don't care for real. You know people adore Dragon Age and replayed it and replayed it and replayed it.

Good work here, guys. You really let down an entire fanbase. I can't be optimistic anymore, because all I see is Mass Effect in fantasy world.

Sure, it's a couple of pictures, a few pieces of info, but they are pretty crucial.

I am going back to play Knights of The Old Republic. At least then you could make a silent protagonist and have most people not mind. Seriously, your problem was you ignored the protagonist, you didn't give them enough cinematic time. So now you just go, "Oh! Wipe it out!" When you could have done so much with it.

I don't want everything RPG to be Mass Effect now. You are too scared to go another route. Apparently Dragon Age sold more than ME, even. 

"Return to your roots"? Whatever.

I am so upset, honestly. This is not a fan overreacting, this is a fan whose been let down too many times by you guys.

You talk as if ME is a horrible game.

As you've said you love DA:O. Why not just play that and stop trying to discourage to rest of from buying DA2 or whatever you are hoping to accomplish?

Or just minimize the volume when you eventually buy DA2 then everything will be silent just like you like it.

[Lord Gremlin]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 No, really, you managed to get rid of most of the things Dragon Age fans, and others liked about the game, and made it into fantasy Mass Effect.

Seriously, good work. I can't even follow the writers or designers anymore, because you have let me down so much. You have a crapload of fans who love your games, and you just screw them over. I was holding on a string yesterday, I was excited, but I was worried. What the hell is the point of wiping out most of the things about the first Dragon Age? What, tell me, please? You had Mass Effect players saying they wanted a voiced PC, they wanted better graphics, but really? You know people like to complain, you know people don't care for real. You know people adore Dragon Age and replayed it and replayed it and replayed it.

Good work here, guys. You really let down an entire fanbase. I can't be optimistic anymore, because all I see is Mass Effect in fantasy world.

Sure, it's a couple of pictures, a few pieces of info, but they are pretty crucial.

I am going back to play Knights of The Old Republic. At least then you could make a silent protagonist and have most people not mind. Seriously, your problem was you ignored the protagonist, you didn't give them enough cinematic time. So now you just go, "Oh! Wipe it out!" When you could have done so much with it.

I don't want everything RPG to be Mass Effect now. You are too scared to go another route. Apparently Dragon Age sold more than ME, even. 

"Return to your roots"? Whatever.

I am so upset, honestly. This is not a fan overreacting, this is a fan whose been let down too many times by you guys.

You talk as if ME is a horrible game.

As you've said you love DA:O. Why not just play that and stop trying to discourage to rest of from buying DA2 or whatever you are hoping to accomplish?

Or just minimize the volume when you eventually buy DA2 then everything will be silent just like you like it.

ME is a horrible game. Everybody has an opinion, and that's mine. ME sucks, combat, quests and especially dialogue. The only good thing was story in general. However, I like DAO - these games are made by different teams so nothing strange here.

[lv12medic]

I don't think the limiting of choices is what is causing all the commotion. I think its the limiting of the player to insert their own ideas of a character into a game. In DA:O, you can pick a dialog option and in your own imagination can think how it sounds, what tone of voice is used, the emotions being portrayed in the scene, etc. When you have a Voiced PC, its all done for you. You can have 50 different origins with VO, and it still will not be the same as having one origin without.

Don't get me wrong, DA 2 will probably be a fun and enjoyable game to play, just as ME and ME2 were enjoyable. I think people know that you can't have every possible choice ever in a video game, because it is limited to what is actually written and programmed into the game. I think people are fearing a loss of what is NOT written or programmed into the game.

[forestmaiden86]

I will always remember how excited I was back in 2006 when I found out about Dragon Age... I had loved KOTOR, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate (Fav for sure) so I kept checking in on it over three years I had waited. I pre ordered the game.... so sorry if I am disappointed by these changes. It takes away the individual experience which I had held Bioware in such high esteem for, now I feel cheated and since not many companies still make fantasy games like that I truely think that my time as being a gamer is truely over now

[Majin Paul]

So they've added a more basic conversation system like in Mass Effect, you can't choose your race, and the main character has a fixed last name, am I missing something? Because that doesn't mean in the slightest that it would be a medieval Mass Effect.

[zahra]

I, like a lot of the posters here, am generally saddened by a lot of the info that has come up. True, we do not have the complete picture yet but it seems to all be leading in a confusing direction (at least in my eyes).



From what I've read in the forums, there has never been a massive outcry for better graphics (not that I am complaining about that, but graphics is not a major selling point for me)+, or a VO or a freaking dialog wheel. Its just so so... confusing.



When I played ME2 I did a lot of runthroughs to kill off companions mainly because I wasn't emotionally invested in the game, while for DA I have never tried executing Alistair/killing Zevran/Wynne/Leliana just because the idea of watching them suffer is not appealing to me. I've killed off nearly every member on the ME2 team just because I thought it would be fun to watch. The level of immersion that you can get on DA is just on a different level.



One of the most confusing things for me is the fact that Gaider himself is quoted as saying that a VO acted PC (i.e. Shepard) means that you aren't truly "becoming" the character. So on some level it shows that Bioware understands the limitations changes like this can bring to the game. And yet it was done anyway. I just .... dont get it.



Am I going to buy it? I honestly am not sure. I know that I won't be rushing to the store on release date and I will probably wait a couple of months just to see what the feedback is/watch youtube videos of it before I decide. I am certainly not going to preorder it and the excitement that I had for this installation has died out. I am still hoping that despite all the major direction changes, somehow it just won't matter and DA will be all the better for it, despite the lack of Origins-choices/ME-style dialog etc. At the moment I am very doubtful.

[allistare]

PEOPLE THE GAME ISNT OUT YET FOR PEACH SAKE STOP PREDICTING WILL IT BE THIS OR THAT WAIT FOR MOR INFORMATION SCREENSHOTS GAMPLAY THEN EXPRESS HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT IT THIS IS TOO SOON FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD SO WHAT IF THE GAME IS CHANGED SO WHAT IS THAT SO HOORIBLE FRIGHTNENING CHANG CAN BE GOOD OR BAD ILL JUDGE IT WHEN A PLAY IT SIMPLE