321 réponses à ce sujet

[Relshar]

Marionetten wrote...

 I think you summed up what most of us who actually followed the game through its development process on the old boards are feeling right now. I still remember how childishly excited I was for that game. This time... it's the complete opposite. Just dread.

signed.

[Anathemic]

LPPrince wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

It's not random if it's planned, and we have no way of knowing what BioWare has planned.
So, if it goes Warden, to Hawke, back to Warden, what happens to Hawke? or is it going to be a same patten of Warden,Hawke, Warden, Hawke, Warden, Hawke, etc.
You are right we have no way of knowing what BioWare is planning, but it doesn't mean we don't have a right to question where they going with it.

He said there will be more DLC, he didn't say it would conclude the Warden's story. You're only speculating that the DLC will conclude the character's storyline, but I haven't seen any evidence to back this up.
And if the DLC won't continue/end the Warden's storyline, where does that leave the Warden?

And on what basis did you form this conclusion? We don't know much about the character or their role in shaping the world, and there is certainly no reason to conclude that Hawke is going to outdo the Warden's achievements.
So if Hawke is not going to outdo the Warden's achivements, we are going from heroic Warden to, champion-of-town-named-Kirkwall Hawke? Seems a little dull in comparison.

You're assuming. That's where all this hate and questioning is coming from.

You don't know if the Warden's story will end in DLC.

You don't know if Hawke will outdo the Warden.

You just DON'T KNOW.

So instead of worrying about what COULD happen, wait to find out what IS going to happen.

Alright fine, WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT DA2:
We are going to be Hawke, predetermined character (Shepard anyone?)
Hawke is human (So much for orgin stories and/or races)
Hawke is Champion of Kirkwall (Prefer my Warden who saved the world thank you)
Hawke is voiced (Great, I'm going to watch Hawke and NPC talk)
DA2 has dialogue wheel (DA:O's dialogue system was great, don't fix what's not broken)
DA2 has no morality system (The only good piece of confirmed info so far)

And 5/6 pieces of info that we are 50/50 on you expect us to be calm

[Greenface21]

Game developers should always strive to change things up with their products. If they just kept to what worked in origins then the series would just grow stagnant. Look at what happened with Bioshock 2. They pretty much stuck with what worked in the first installment and I thought the sequel was pretty lackluster.

BigEd420 wrote...



Bioware, has made games that I spend 80 hours of my life playing. I trust them, not to let me down.

quoted again for truth

[LPPrince]

Anathemic wrote...

Alright fine, WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT DA2:
We are going to be Hawke, predetermined character (Shepard anyone?)
Hawke is human (So much for orgin stories and/or races)
Hawke is Champion of Kirkwall (Prefer my Warden who saved the world thank you)
Hawke is voiced (Great, I'm going to watch Hawke and NPC talk)
DA2 has dialogue wheel (DA:O's dialogue system was great, don't fix what's not broken)
DA2 has no morality system (The only good piece of confirmed info so far)

And 5/6 pieces of info that we are 50/50 on you expect us to be calm

1. So let me get this straight. Because he's predetermined, suddenly he's Shepard? That's blind hate.
2. Yes, Hawke is human. You didn't really expect the origins to continue, did you? Origins was the subtitle of the game, not the real name. Its Dragon Age. They could fit a single character if they wanted to.
3. Did anyone say The Warden was going to save the World at the beginning? Nope. You have no idea what "The Champion of Kirkwall" even means. That's blind hate again.
4. Hawke is voiced, yes. That means now he isn't going to have a blind stare on his face, he can show much more emotion, and conversations will have the natural flow they do in reality. Compare that to DAO's system, which had its benefits, yes, but didn't really convey how a real life conversation would actually look like or sound like.
5. Yes, there's a dialogue wheel. They aren't changing the system of DAO. They're switching it with another system. We have yet to see how this will work in game, so again, blind hate.
6. No morality system is a plus, I'll give you that.

[LPPrince]

Greenface21 wrote...

Game developers should always strive to change things up with their products. If they just kept to what worked in origins then the series would just grow stagnant. Look at what happened with Bioshock 2. They pretty much stuck with what worked in the first installment and I thought the sequel was pretty lackluster.

Exactly. That's why bands change their tune, products shift and change, etc etc.

Change is GOOD. Yeah, I'll miss whatever's taken out of DAO, but I have to give whatever's put IN a chance, because for all I know, it could be a thousand times better in execution.

[Talonfire]

Anathemic wrote...

So, if it goes Warden, to Hawke, back to Warden, what happens to Hawke? or is it going to be a same patten of Warden,Hawke, Warden, Hawke, Warden, Hawke, etc.

Well, here's a possibility. We know that Hawke is the protagonist of Dragon Age 2, and that by the end of the game he will be in a place of power. What if Dragon Age 3 concerns both the Warden and Hawke? It's possible that we'll play as the Warden again in Dragon Age 3, and that Hawke will play a major role in that story and that Dragon Age 2 is just his, well, rise to the position he'll be in for the next installment. Just speculation of course, but it's very possible.

You are right we have no way of knowing what BioWare is planning, but it doesn't mean we don't have a right to question where they going with it.

I didn't say you didn't have that right. I'm not particularly fond of this decision either, but I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach. I just think some folks are getting too riled up over so little information.

And if the DLC won't continue/end the Warden's storyline, where does that leave the Warden?

I see two possibilities here, one is that BioWare wants to leave it up to the player to decide what happened to them. Another is that they plan on bringing him or her back at some point in the future.

So if Hawke is not going to outdo the Warden's achivements, we are going from heroic Warden to, champion-of-town-named-Kirkwall Hawke? Seems a little dull in comparison.

I'm sure there will be more to the story than that, but it's a bit too early to assume that Hawke will outdo the Warden.

[Anathemic]

LPPrince wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Alright fine, WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT DA2:
We are going to be Hawke, predetermined character (Shepard anyone?)
Hawke is human (So much for orgin stories and/or races)
Hawke is Champion of Kirkwall (Prefer my Warden who saved the world thank you)
Hawke is voiced (Great, I'm going to watch Hawke and NPC talk)
DA2 has dialogue wheel (DA:O's dialogue system was great, don't fix what's not broken)
DA2 has no morality system (The only good piece of confirmed info so far)

And 5/6 pieces of info that we are 50/50 on you expect us to be calm

1. So let me get this straight. Because he's predetermined, suddenly he's Shepard? That's blind hate.
2. Yes, Hawke is human. You didn't really expect the origins to continue, did you? Origins was the subtitle of the game, not the real name. Its Dragon Age. They could fit a single character if they wanted to.
3. Did anyone say The Warden was going to save the World at the beginning? Nope. You have no idea what "The Champion of Kirkwall" even means. That's blind hate again.
4. Hawke is voiced, yes. That means now he isn't going to have a blind stare on his face, he can show much more emotion, and conversations will have the natural flow they do in reality. Compare that to DAO's system, which had its benefits, yes, but didn't really convey how a real life conversation would actually look like or sound like.
5. Yes, there's a dialogue wheel. They aren't changing the system of DAO. They're switching it with another system. We have yet to see how this will work in game, so again, blind hate.
6. No morality system is a plus, I'll give you that.

1) I'm a roleplayer, as a roleplayer I like to create my character, not have it set up for me "Hawke is driving force behind the narrative" I'm not, I can guide/steer Hawke to make the story, but it's not me.
2)I didn't expect my Warden to make it to DA2, i did expect the same level of customization (races/origins/etc.) that they did from DA:O. DA:O was a 'return to roots' game, now DA2 is going to 'return to present' game.
3)"Kirkwall is a major population center in the Free Marches, a collection of city-states north of Ferelden." So I'm being downgraded from Chapion of Ferelden to Champion of colelction of city-states. I think I know what Kirkwall is and what Champion is.
4)In DA:O no VO made it feel my character, I didn't have to have a handicap in having some person talk the dailogue lines out for me.
5)Is switching any better than changing? And plus it's really the same thing, the dialogue system is going to be different, if not completely different.
6)Thank you

Modifié par Anathemic, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:09 .

[Anathemic]

Well, here's a possibility. We know that Hawke is the protagonist of Dragon Age 2, and that by the end of the game he will be in a place of power. What if Dragon Age 3 concerns both the Warden and Hawke? It's possible that we'll play as the Warden again in Dragon Age 3, and that Hawke will play a major role in that story and that Dragon Age 2 is just his, well, rise to the position he'll be in for the next installment. Just speculation of course, but it's very possible.

That's a possiblity, but whouldn't it me much smoother for everyone just to have the Warden's story throughout the whole franchise ? Maybe Hawke a main companion in a degree like Duncan for example and make it their story?

I didn't say you didn't have that right. I'm not particularly fond of this decision either, but I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach. I just think some folks are getting too riled up over so little information.

It's kind of hard not to, when you see each new peice of information being a dissapointment.

I see two possibilities here, one is that BioWare wants to leave it up to the player to decide what happened to them. Another is that they plan on bringing him or her back at some point in the future.

Look at Response #1

I'm sure there will be more to the story than that, but it's a bit too early to assume that Hawke will outdo the Warden.

Maybe, maybe not, all I can say is the Warden is looking better than Hawke so far.

[Paromlin]

Anathemic wrote...

1) I'm a roleplayer, as a roleplayer I like to create my character, not have it set up for me "Hawke is driving force behind the narrative" I'm not, I can guide/steer Hawke to make the story, but it's not me.
2)I didn't expect my Warden to make it to DA2, i did expect the same level of customization (races/origins/etc.) that they did from DA:O. DA:O was a 'return to roots' game, now DA2 is going to 'return to present' game.
3)"Kirkwall is a major population center in the Free Marches, a collection of city-states north of Ferelden." So I'm being downgraded from Chapion of Ferelden to Champion of colelction of city-states. I think I know what Kirkwall is and what Champion is.
4)In DA:O no VO made it feel my character, I didn't have to have a handicap in having some person talk the dailogue lines out for me.
5)Is switching any better than changing? And plus it's really the same thing, the dialogue system is going to be different, if not completely different.
6)Thank you

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!
I just wouldn't agree with DAO being some kind of return to roots game because it's so drastically different (in a meh way) from the BG saga.

[Anathemic]

Paromlin wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

1) I'm a roleplayer, as a roleplayer I like to create my character, not have it set up for me "Hawke is driving force behind the narrative" I'm not, I can guide/steer Hawke to make the story, but it's not me.
2)I didn't expect my Warden to make it to DA2, i did expect the same level of customization (races/origins/etc.) that they did from DA:O. DA:O was a 'return to roots' game, now DA2 is going to 'return to present' game.
3)"Kirkwall is a major population center in the Free Marches, a collection of city-states north of Ferelden." So I'm being downgraded from Chapion of Ferelden to Champion of colelction of city-states. I think I know what Kirkwall is and what Champion is.
4)In DA:O no VO made it feel my character, I didn't have to have a handicap in having some person talk the dailogue lines out for me.
5)Is switching any better than changing? And plus it's really the same thing, the dialogue system is going to be different, if not completely different.
6)Thank you

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!
I just wouldn't agree with DAO being some kind of return to roots game because it's so drastically different (in a meh way) from the BG saga.

This is what the forums are all about silly
We hear information and debate over it in hope the game will turn out to what we desire it to be

Modifié par Anathemic, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[Paromlin]

Anathemic wrote...

We hear information and debate over it in hope the game will turn out to what we desire it to be

Of course..

Judging from how some people think this forum should be either:

a) shut down because we aren't allowed to criticize certain design decisions until WE KNOW IT ALL!!

a place to praise the game.

Modifié par Paromlin, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Soruve]

I can understand concerns about Hawke not being "you" to some small extent, then I wonder how different is Hawke from the Warden anyway? You can name your character in Origins, but nobody *ever* uses it. You are referred to as "The Grey Warden" "My Lady" "Sir" "Cousland" and other surnames if anything at all throughout the game. How is it that Hawke is any different. It's a surname - consider it a nickname if you really want your own part in it.

I have a hard time understanding how people wouldn't like their character to have a voice. It always seemed a bit odd to me in Origins how everyone else was speaking around me and I just returned a blank glare at them and clicked an option of dialogue that would never be heard. But thats just my opinion, maybe I am just lacking in imagination. *shrug*

Modifié par Soruve, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[LPPrince]

Paromlin wrote...

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!

No, what she said was the opposite side of the thought process as mine. Its equal. We're debating.

As for WHEN to judge it, I'm not saying we have to wait to play the game, but goddamn, wait till you friggen SEE it.

Christ, all we got were a few facts, and people are already assuming the game's going to tank.

[Paromlin]

LPPrince wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!

No, what she said was the opposite side of the thought process as mine. Its equal. We're debating.

As for WHEN to judge it, I'm not saying we have to wait to play the game, but goddamn, wait till you friggen SEE it.

Christ, all we got were a few facts, and people are already assuming the game's going to tank.

The sentence with the caps lock is about you, in case you didn't notice.

SEE what? The dialogue wheel?

 You can't SEE most things.. like the level scaling crap for example, and they probably won't even mention it - but it means a lot to a considerable portion of the player base.

[LPPrince]

Paromlin wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!

No, what she said was the opposite side of the thought process as mine. Its equal. We're debating.

As for WHEN to judge it, I'm not saying we have to wait to play the game, but goddamn, wait till you friggen SEE it.

Christ, all we got were a few facts, and people are already assuming the game's going to tank.

The sentence with the caps lock is about you, in case you didn't notice.

SEE what? The dialogue wheel?

 You can't SEE most things.. like the level scaling crap for example, and they probably won't even mention it - but it means a lot to a considerable portion of the player base.

So you're just going to guess, assume, and believe that its cold hard fact?

I'm not doubting these changes they're stating are happening won't happen.

What I'm wondering is why the hell are people claiming this game is horrible when

A. They haven't seen it.
B. Have no idea how these additions will be implemented.
C. Are adding their own twisted ideas of what's going to happen that have no merit.

Sorry, but I'm not going to claim a chocolate cake tastes like cement until I actually taste that cake.

I'm not just going to hear about it and then claim it tastes disgusting.

That's exactly what was wrong with Fox News' report on Mass Effect's sex scenes back in March of 2008.

And look, now half the people on the boards are doing the same thing.

Bioware can't catch a break to save their lives.

[Paromlin]

LPPrince wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Paromlin wrote...

You said it all. But s/he won't be satisfied BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY AND PLAY THE GAME AND THEN JUDGE IT!!!

No, what she said was the opposite side of the thought process as mine. Its equal. We're debating.

As for WHEN to judge it, I'm not saying we have to wait to play the game, but goddamn, wait till you friggen SEE it.

Christ, all we got were a few facts, and people are already assuming the game's going to tank.

The sentence with the caps lock is about you, in case you didn't notice.

SEE what? The dialogue wheel?

 You can't SEE most things.. like the level scaling crap for example, and they probably won't even mention it - but it means a lot to a considerable portion of the player base.

So you're just going to guess, assume, and believe that its cold hard fact?

I'm not doubting these changes they're stating are happening won't happen.

What I'm wondering is why the hell are people claiming this game is horrible when

A. They haven't seen it.
B. Have no idea how these additions will be implemented.
C. Are adding their own twisted ideas of what's going to happen that have no merit.

Sorry, but I'm not going to claim a chocolate cake tastes like cement until I actually taste that cake.

I'm not just going to hear about it and then claim it tastes disgusting.

That's exactly what was wrong with Fox News' report on Mass Effect's sex scenes back in March of 2008.

And look, now half the people on the boards are doing the same thing.

Bioware can't catch a break to save their lives.

Why am I wasting my time discussing this crap with you.

Right. I am "guessing" they won't mention that in the marketing campaign because they didn't mention it in the last one either. Forum posts a few weeks before release don't count.

You haven't moved from the dead spot, have you...

People dislike those features because they prefer something ELSE. How can I explain it to you in an easier manner so you could understand it. Because those are features they care about. Any suggestions?

Modifié par Paromlin, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:51 .

[Addai]

Soruve wrote...

I have a hard time understanding how people wouldn't like their character to have a voice. It always seemed a bit odd to me in Origins how everyone else was speaking around me and I just returned a blank glare at them and clicked an option of dialogue that would never be heard. But thats just my opinion, maybe I am just lacking in imagination. *shrug*

It seems odd to me to have an actor break in and interpret what I'm thinking as my character's response, while I sit by thinking (potentially) "no, the inflection is all wrong" or (as in Mass Effect) "God I hate your voice, can I have another?"  Not only that, it's boring.  I don't want to sit and listen to some actor talk in my place, I want to move on with the game.

[LPPrince]

You're not wasting your time, unless you expect me to claim your opinion is fact and mine is flat out incorrect.



So they prefer something else. Doesn't matter. How do they know they'll dislike what's put in to the sequel if they don't give it a shot?



Simply throwing the game away after 2 days of barely any info is simply idiotic and asinine.



The floccinaucinihilipilification at DA2 is ridiculous.



Its not DAO2. Its DA2. People seem to disregard that.

[LPPrince]

Addai67 wrote...

Soruve wrote...

I have a hard time understanding how people wouldn't like their character to have a voice. It always seemed a bit odd to me in Origins how everyone else was speaking around me and I just returned a blank glare at them and clicked an option of dialogue that would never be heard. But thats just my opinion, maybe I am just lacking in imagination. *shrug*

It seems odd to me to have an actor break in and interpret what I'm thinking as my character's response, while I sit by thinking (potentially) "no, the inflection is all wrong" or (as in Mass Effect) "God I hate your voice, can I have another?"  Not only that, it's boring.  I don't want to sit and listen to some actor talk in my place, I want to move on with the game.

That's where people differ. Some prefer voices, some don't. That's one argument that will never be settled on these boards.

[Paromlin]

LPPrince wrote...
How do they know they'll dislike what's put in to the sequel if they don't give it a shot?

 

Aha, I was right that you think we have to "give it a shot" (buy it, pay it) to know we'll dislike it. 

I'm sorry, but in my world I don't have to "give something a shot" to know I won't like it. I don't have to kiss a cow, I don't have to taste **** etc. .. to know I won't like it. It might work different in your world - but there are certain features of products/people/games/things that turn me off.
You're a better consumer than me, it's easier to sell things to someone like you. You have to taste it first, after all.

[javierabegazo]

Reminder to keep your posts civil, and mature. No snide remarks please. Too much bickering and nastiness gets a thread shut down

If you find yourself cursing outloud because of a particular poster, that's a good sign that you should take a few minutes to calm down, preferably outside, in the sun. Sun makes people happy. And Chocolate.

Modifié par javierabegazo, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:06 .

[javierabegazo]

Addendum: I just noticed the OP requested this thread to be locked/deleted. As such I will lock it, in case anyone wants to keep those comments from Gaider in links.