321 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucy Glitter]

Well, ME2 did have it's parts where you could change something, but it was definitely mostly about how your character reacted.

[Antiuna]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I, for one, am looking forward to romance speculation. Oh, man, I live for that stuff *hi fives Deviija*

Yeay for 300 romance threads! I bet the dragon girl is romancable. . .

[Maniac600]

In DA:O you actually had different choices that resulted in different outcomes.!







In ME2 you might of had 2 or 3 choices but the eventual outcome was the same always!

Not necessarily. DA: O had many quests in which there was only one outcome as well. This is somewhat a generalization.

[Onyx Jaguar]

The only Bioware game I have played where I felt I had made a significant impact with a decision was Awakening. Perhaps I should lower my expectations.

[Jimmy Fury]

Kalfear wrote...
In ME2 you might of had 2 or 3 choices but the eventual outcome was the same always!

So when you chose to let Ashley die Kaiden died instead? And when you chose to answer the reporter nicely you ended up punching her?
I mean they weren't the exact same system but they weren't as wildly different as people are making it out.

[Lucy Glitter]

Antiuna wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I, for one, am looking forward to romance speculation. Oh, man, I live for that stuff *hi fives Deviija*

Yeay for 300 romance threads! I bet the dragon girl is romancable. . .

What if it's Flemeth? I bet it is Flemmy, actually. Flemwhem.

[Nyjahl]

David Gaider wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I find it's a change that I just don't understand - why do Mass Effect dialogue system, what is the point? If I have a good explanation, maybe I can understand it. It's upsetting for me, because I like Dragon Age, I love it. This feels like you are betraying Dragon Age fans. I don't see the point of completely changing things, it's silly and it really does upset me. like, really. I am actually really sad right now.

I hope that's not true. I might understand how some people who enjoyed every part of Dragon Age: Origins-- the bad along with the good-- might not like even the mere mention of change, but it's my experience that any system comes with its advantages as well as disadvantages. I'd be glad to discuss some of them with you... once we've even said what our implementation of these systems will be like. That information will come in time.

While I wont go screaming "The sky is falling!" (yet) until more info is released, I will still support Lucy_Glitter on this. I've been noticing a pattern with once great gaming companies, where they are trying to reinvent their own wheels (which happened to comics and now movies, in their respected golden ages).

ME1 was a great wheel, that only needed improving (not reinventing). Dragon Age: Origins, was a great wheel, that only needed improving (will wait to see if more info shows that it is being reinvented). I am going to hope that anything negative I am thinking/feeling regarding DA2, ME3 and SW:TOR will be proven completely wrong.

Modifié par Nyjahl, 10 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[Daeion]

I guess my biggest problem with DA2 is that it won't be a continuation of DA:O. Sure sure, some of the things we did may transfer over, i.e who is king or queen, but with ME2 as an indication of how consequences carry over I expect even less considering we aren't even using the same cast, and that's quite a disappointment. One of the things BW does really well is develop characters and companions and typically leads us to wanting more. I know that's what I wanted, and I was looking forward to continuing my adventures with the group.  I didn't really think the the quick little single paragraph write ups at the end of origins and awakening would be the end of my group. My warden still had lots of adventuring to do and I wanted to play out those adventures, not start another char with whom I have no ties to. I guess one of my biggest fears at this point is that they may try to incorporate some of origins and awakening companions into DA2 just to pay us lip service and I think that would be even worse then what they've done now.

Modifié par Daeion, 10 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[Maniac600]

DA: O had a lot of room for improvement. The changes they appear to making aren't the way I would do it, however.



Oh well, I don't work for Bioware. I can't call the shots.



I thought they did a great job with ME 2, even if the game world aspect and branching storyline was somewhat cut. They basically streamlined the whole series to make it more accessible and less bloated. I can't complain; I hated those barren Mako planets from ME 1.

[Antiuna]

Daeion wrote...

I guess my biggest problem with DA2 is that it won't be a continuation of DA:O. Sure sure, some of the things we did may transfer over, i.e who is king or queen, but with ME2 as an indication of how consequences carry over I expect even less considering we aren't even using the same cast, and that's quite a disappointment. One of the things BW does really well is develop characters and companions and typically leads us to wanting more. I know that what I wanted, and I was looking forward to continuing my adventures with the group, i didn't really think the the quick little single paragraph write ups and the end of origins and awakening would be the end of my group. My warden still had lots of adventuring to do and I wanted to play out those adventures, not start another char with whom I have ties to. I guess one of my biggest fears at this point is that they may try to incorporate some of origins and awakening companions into DA2 just to pay us lip service and I think that would be even worse then what they've done now.

Agreed  I was worried that I'd lose my character in the sequeal, I guess the did alude to it a bit. But I was really hoping to continue the story my Warden. Easy solution to not having an overpowered start, eh? 

(I bet the dragon girl is the white haired mage from the first game. . .)

[fantasypisces]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

fantasypisces wrote...
Pfft, no it didn't.
It had fewer options in ME. Plus the options were always "question her", "agree", or something to that effect, then the VA would go off on huge sentences, often times saying things in ways or meanings that you did not intend. In ME you guided the hero, you weren't the hero.
In Dragon Age you had 'multiple' sentence length responses that you read through, so you knew exactly what you would say. In DA you WERE the hero, you didn't guide him.

Yes, it did. They might not have been full sentences but they were very clearly topics of sentences and were more than just "agree" and "question her"
The reason they weren't full sentences is because they didn't need to be. Shep was voiced. You still held a whole conversation and controlled the direction of it. Sentence length does not invalidate the controlled nature of the system.

I just played through a little bit of ME today: 80% of the time I was given three options, which mostly had a positive, negative, or neutral connotation to them. Occasionally I would be given five options: and the phrases were generally "Explain", "Can I help", "What's going on", "I'm sorry" etc. Very short.

I just now did a little play in Dragon Age. I had choices like:
 "You don't need to be hard on yourself, we all make mistakes. What is important is that you are here now."

Take that example and put it up against ME's "I'm sorry" response. Sometimes that "I'm sorry" could end up being just that, you apologize. Sometimes that "I'm Sorry" would wind up being, "I really do feel bad for you, but you need to get over it, we have a job to do". See where I'm going?

Mass Effect could have up to six responses, most often you had three, and most often you were never fully sure what the VA is going to say. In Dragon Age I almost always had 4-5 response options, and I knew exactly what I was saying.

[asaiasai]

David Gaider wrote...

I think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

Dear sir,

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt concerning the changes being made to DA2, so far with DAO and the various expansions, even Awakenings i have not been let down. I fully understand that you are trying to tweak the game experience, and you sir have a difficult task ahead of you, because with DAO being so damn good you have to make lightning stirke not only twice but in the same exact spot. My major concern is that having played the ME series, and the DAO series, there is one fundamental difference between the two games and to loose that difference will be a let down of epic proportions. In the ME series Shepard is your character, they are written with thier faults and flaws already provided for us, they are what you want them to be. In DAO my wardens all 19 of them are individual, they are my wardens, and each is different from its predecessor because you have not only taken the time to allow it you have by superior writing demanded it. In the ME experience there is no room for this and when you add things like conversation wheels from ME into the DAO experience we core fans might wonder how much else of the ME experience are you going to add in as well. It does worry me to a degree that with the chatter concering the changes for DA2 that we might be in for a "dumbing down" if you will of the game experience. I enjoyed the ME series but i found it to be a rather limited shallow experience as the character was really the same character male or female everytime. I think what has people a bit on edge myself included, is that DAO was such a departure from the normal gaming experience, then we are told that some of the "ho hum" from the ME series is being introduced into the DAO experience. We have no frame of context by which judge this, but that provided by the ME series, and DAO was so superior in every aspect to ME2 that this will cause a bit of alarm. This is not meant to be insulting, it is meant to clarify.

I am just one of the millions who enjoy the passion your art inspires, i have debated at great length the merits and flaws of every DAO/DAOA character and the choices you force the player to make many times on these forums. Your art has created some of the most intense arguments i have had in quite awhile. I guess what i am trying to say is that i hope you have not forgotten to ensure that the game has stayed true to the deep moral abyss you have thrown the player in to. Your characters in DAO might be looked down upon as game characters, not given the same weight as a Frodo or Bilbo Baggins, as Jon Snow or Rob Stark,  but to me Leliana or Sten, Morrigan or Loghain, have touched me just as the aforementioned characters have probably even a bit more as i have yet to debate Tolkien with anyone. Your game has allowed me the player to also join in the creation process by immersing myself into the world creating my character then not allowing but insisting that I make my own mark on the world is what seperates DAO for all the pretenders out there. It is for me why i am so passionate about what your plans are, because if you remove that which has made DAO the truly one of a kind experience it is to appeal to a wider market would be viewed as a betrayal of the same proportions as Allistair of the PC at the landsmeet. I guess what i am trying to say is I can get the ME experience anywhere there are literally dozens of titles that offer it or something similar, but there is only one DAO, i hope you will stay true to what made DAO so good and i assure you the rest will take care of itself.

sincerely
Asai

[Kalfear]

Nyjahl wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I find it's a change that I just don't understand - why do Mass Effect dialogue system, what is the point? If I have a good explanation, maybe I can understand it. It's upsetting for me, because I like Dragon Age, I love it. This feels like you are betraying Dragon Age fans. I don't see the point of completely changing things, it's silly and it really does upset me. like, really. I am actually really sad right now.

I hope that's not true. I might understand how some people who enjoyed every part of Dragon Age: Origins-- the bad along with the good-- might not like even the mere mention of change, but it's my experience that any system comes with its advantages as well as disadvantages. I'd be glad to discuss some of them with you... once we've even said what our implementation of these systems will be like. That information will come in time.

While I wont go screaming "The sky is falling!" (yet) until more info is released, I will still support Lucy_Glitter on this. I've been noticing a pattern with once great gaming companies, where they are trying to reinvent their own wheels (which happened to comics and now movies, in their respected golden ages).

ME1 was a great wheel, that only needed improving (not reinvented). Dragon Age: Origins, was a great wheel, that only needed improving (will wait to see if more info shows that it is being reinvented). I am going to hope that anything negative I am thinking/feeling about regarding DA2, ME3 and SW:TOR will be proven completely wrong.

Excellent points!

Double so about comics!
Returned first comic in 20+ years other day because of "NEW DIRECTION" they were going with a trusted old character (Rawhide Kid).
Wasnt broke, had a rich history, and they gutted it all for this "NEW DIRECTION" and literally only 1 person buying it in the CITY I live in.

Your dead on the money about ME1 and DA:O as well.
Both could have used minor tweaking, not total revamping.
I will not be buying ME3 because of ME2 (and im far from alone on that)
Now im questioning DA2. Ill wait for more info of course but right now im leaning more to the no then the yes side because it didnt need a major reworking. The dialog system was fine, the origin systems were fine, the combat was awsome imo. All it really needed was more depth because every RPG ever made needs more depth.

[Jimmy Fury]

Kalfear wrote...
Returned first comic in 20+ years other day because of "NEW DIRECTION" they were going with a trusted old character (Rawhide Kid).
Wasnt broke, had a rich history, and they gutted it all for this "NEW DIRECTION" and literally only 1 person buying it in the CITY I live in.

Not to get off topic but it's not Marvel's fault you missed the MUCH publicized reinvention of the Kid.... 7 years ago.

[errant_knight]

Maniac600 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

Mr.Gaider does DA2 remind you of ME2?

I'll bet it does.

They're both RPG's by Bioware.

We can assume the games are going to be associated, if not similar.

Personally, I don't consider Mass Effect to be an RPG. It's a hybrid that leans pretty far away from being an RPG. I'm fairly sure that I'm not alone in this.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Daeion wrote...

I guess my biggest problem with DA2 is that it won't be a continuation of DA:O. Sure sure, some of the things we did may transfer over, i.e who is king or queen, but with ME2 as an indication of how consequences carry over I expect even less considering we aren't even using the same cast, and that's quite a disappointment. One of the things BW does really well is develop characters and companions and typically leads us to wanting more. I know that what I wanted, and I was looking forward to continuing my adventures with the group, i didn't really think the the quick little single paragraph write ups and the end of origins and awakening would be the end of my group. My warden still had lots of adventuring to do and I wanted to play out those adventures, not start another char with whom I have ties to. I guess one of my biggest fears at this point is that they may try to incorporate some of origins and awakening companions into DA2 just to pay us lip service and I think that would be even worse then what they've done now.

The decisions you made in DA:O were world shaking.  The ones you made in ME were small, and personal.

You don't need the same cast to show the impact of the choices we made in DA:O

[Maniac600]

errant_knight wrote...

Maniac600 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

Mr.Gaider does DA2 remind you of ME2?

I'll bet it does.

They're both RPG's by Bioware.

We can assume the games are going to be associated, if not similar.

Personally, I don't consider Mass Effect to be an RPG. It's a hybrid that leans pretty far away from being an RPG. I'm fairly sure that I'm not alone in this.

It's fair to call it an action RPG. You may not be playing the role of your own creation, but you still customize it, make decisions, and progress in the story as your character's skills and level increase.

It may not be a by-the-book RPG verbatim, but I'd still call it a RPG.

[TMZuk]

Ekyri wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...


The succes of RPGs like Red Dead Redeption are proof positive of this. 

Red Deads an RPG now? 

Quite clearly from a post as this, there's rather a diverse opinion upon what an RPG is. Next thing I'll hear someone declare Prince of Persia to be an RPG.

[Maniac600]

TMZuk wrote...

Ekyri wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...


The succes of RPGs like Red Dead Redeption are proof positive of this. 

Red Deads an RPG now? 

Quite clearly from a post as this, there's rather a diverse opinion upon what an RPG is. Next thing I'll hear someone declare Prince of Persia to be an RPG.

Indeed. RPG is a genre that is probably more open to interpretation than any other, simply because every game is so different than the other.

An FPS = a game where you can see your gun but not your body.
A racing game = a game where you race vehicles
An RPG = eh....

You could list a thousand things here and still leave someone unsatisfied.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I've never been happier that I've never played Mass Effect. Can't dread DA2 being like a game I've never experienced.



Seriously though, I don't mind Hawke being voiced so long as this new dialogue system doesn't put words into my character's mouth. Clicking to say one thing and then watching the game autopilot a conversation without me...I prefer the vanilla DA:O system. I want to choose what's said, not prompt, be involved in the game and not spectate.



But since some things haven't been announced yet, I will wait and hope.



(You could always make DA2 be like PacMan. Everyone loves PacMan.)

[Maniac600]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I've never been happier that I've never played Mass Effect. Can't dread DA2 being like a game I've never experienced.

Seriously though, I don't mind Hawke being voiced so long as this new dialogue system doesn't put words into my character's mouth. Clicking to say one thing and then watching the game autopilot a conversation without me...I prefer the vanilla DA:O system. I want to choose what's said, not prompt, be involved in the game and not spectate.

But since some things haven't been announced yet, I will wait and hope.

(You could always make DA2 be like PacMan. Everyone loves PacMan.)

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

[Jestina]

ME is an action RPG...ME2 is an even more perfect picture of an action RPG. Action RPG's are basically simplified traditional RPG's that focus mostly on combat, so you don't have a lot of those pesky stats and inventory systems bothering you while you try to mindlessly slaughter stuff.

[Conquerthecity]

Efesell wrote...

Xathras1337 wrote...

Well that's your opinion.

Me and millions of other will enjoy it regardless.
I'm willing to bet it's gonna be a kickass epic game.

High five.

High five x2

The whining in here is ridiculous.

[Adanu]

Devs... drip feeding your fans is exactly what makes us despise you. You basically took the plastic sheath off the bread and hid the loaf. It would have been better to launch the trailer *along* with your game announcement. Doing this to us only reinforcing my opinion you are slowly selling out to 'the masses' all for a bit more bottom line.



We love you because you kept the spirit of the originals alive, if not the actual games. Doing this to us after what EA did to Westwood is like telling us to accept that Lions don't have manes. It is what it is.



If you don't want us to get angry, then give us something to go on. Leave marketing to the lemmings who sit on the couch.

[Maniac600]

Adanu wrote...

Devs... drip feeding your fans is exactly what makes us despise you. You basically took the plastic sheath off the bread and hid the loaf. It would have been better to launch the trailer *along* with your game announcement. Doing this to us only reinforcing my opinion you are slowly selling out to 'the masses' all for a bit more bottom line.

We love you because you kept the spirit of the originals alive, if not the actual games. Doing this to us after what EA did to Westwood is like telling us to accept that Lions don't have manes. It is what it is.

If you don't want us to get angry, then give us something to go on. Leave marketing to the lemmings who sit on the couch.

Relax. They'll release info when they're damn well ready. You don't have the right to demand info from anyone...assuming you're not Russian kgb.