321 réponses à ce sujet

[SithLordExarKun]

Kalfear wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Wait, what troll?

not you, leave it at that

LOL, and not you either Dil

Hmm i wonder who the troll might be considering that anybody who happens to be more intelligent than you or anyone who disagrees with you is a troll...

And there's ALOT of people in that category

[MoMan313]

VO is nice 8D... JUST DON'T SCARP THE ORIGIN'S STORY IN THE PROCESS!! damn... whatever the hell happened to straight foward sequels?!?!

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

I hope that's not true. I might understand how some people who enjoyed every part of Dragon Age: Origins-- the bad along with the good-- might not like even the mere mention of change, but it's my experience that any system comes with its advantages as well as disadvantages. I'd be glad to discuss some of them with you...

I look forward to that.

I've been liberal with my criticism of Mass Effect's dialogue system, partly because I think it produces terrible gameplay, and partly because I don't understand how anyone could have willingly designed it.

In general, the DA team is far more open with regard to design decisions and what their objectives are, so I hope we can actually find out what these decisions are and why they were made.

Mostly I'm concerned because I've been playing computer games, particuarly CRPGs, for a really long time, and I can't even figure out how to play Mass Effect (and I've played through the game three times trying to figure it out).  I simply don't get it.  And based on the Game Informer article, DA2 is mimicking that design (at least in some ways).

Hence my concern.

I may take issue with a wide variety of design decisions from time to time (list inventories, unlimited arrows, massless equipment, immortality, lack of free exploration, lack of full-party control, the requirement that the PC always be the party's spokesman, lack of a combat log or text box), but never have I felt that those aspects of game design fundamentally broke the game.  But I do feel that way about Mass Effect's dialogue system.

But maybe I'm just playing it wrong.  As I said, I don't understand how to play Mass Effect because the dialogue system confounds me.  An open discussion about the feature (again, assuming DA2 resembles ME as much as the GI article seems to suggest) might solve that problem for me.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maniac600 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I've never been happier that I've never played Mass Effect. Can't dread DA2 being like a game I've never experienced.

Seriously though, I don't mind Hawke being voiced so long as this new dialogue system doesn't put words into my character's mouth. Clicking to say one thing and then watching the game autopilot a conversation without me...I prefer the vanilla DA:O system. I want to choose what's said, not prompt, be involved in the game and not spectate.

But since some things haven't been announced yet, I will wait and hope.

(You could always make DA2 be like PacMan. Everyone loves PacMan.)

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

Hm. I guess I'll consider the game a Third Person Action Adventure than an RPG. At the most, it's sounding like another game in the Dragon Age universe, a spinoff even, rather than a successor.

I don't tend to enjoy those as much, but they can still be good.

Still, I am disappointed, yes. I loved how DA:O worked and was hoping for more of the same, or at least similar. Maybe DA3

[Noir201]

Maniac600 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I've never been happier that I've never played Mass Effect. Can't dread DA2 being like a game I've never experienced.

Seriously though, I don't mind Hawke being voiced so long as this new dialogue system doesn't put words into my character's mouth. Clicking to say one thing and then watching the game autopilot a conversation without me...I prefer the vanilla DA:O system. I want to choose what's said, not prompt, be involved in the game and not spectate.

But since some things haven't been announced yet, I will wait and hope.

(You could always make DA2 be like PacMan. Everyone loves PacMan.)

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

Not good news tbh.

[Maniac600]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maniac600 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I've never been happier that I've never played Mass Effect. Can't dread DA2 being like a game I've never experienced.

Seriously though, I don't mind Hawke being voiced so long as this new dialogue system doesn't put words into my character's mouth. Clicking to say one thing and then watching the game autopilot a conversation without me...I prefer the vanilla DA:O system. I want to choose what's said, not prompt, be involved in the game and not spectate.

But since some things haven't been announced yet, I will wait and hope.

(You could always make DA2 be like PacMan. Everyone loves PacMan.)

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

Hm. I guess I'll consider the game a Third Person Action Adventure than an RPG. At the most, it's sounding like another game in the Dragon Age universe, a spinoff even, rather than a successor.

I don't tend to enjoy those as much, but they can still be good.

Still, I am disappointed, yes. I loved how DA:O worked and was hoping for more of the same, or at least similar. Maybe DA3

Perhaps, it's really just the way you look at it that matters.

Personally, I took well to this news. This new dialogue system should really add some depth to character interaction. Just imagine that with each symbol, there are also matching expressions on character's faces! (Happy, sad, smug, flirty, etc.) To me, it sounds like this is bringing this game closer to RPG territory.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Sounds more like Alpha Protocol's system than ME's.

[Koffeegirl]

Two things make me happy about this link

"The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme" and this

"You may be controlling a different character in Dragon Age II, but the choices your Grey Warden made in Origins are still imported from your save and reflected in the world.”

Thank you bioware! I will miss my Warden.....but I'm really happy I can still have the same combat experience on my pc and that some origin choices will carry over:) Thanks a bunch!

Also I have never played ME, can someone send me a link of what the conversation wheel looks like? I don't understand what it is.......

[Onyx Jaguar]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Two things make me happy about this link
"The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme" and this
"You may be controlling a different character in Dragon Age II, but the choices your Grey Warden made in Origins are still imported from your save and reflected in the world.”
Thank you bioware! I will miss my Warden.....but I'm really happy I can still have the same combat experience on my pc and that some origin choices will carry over:) Thanks a bunch!
Also I have never played ME, can someone send me a link of what the conversation wheel looks like? I don't understand what it is.......

[SageGaspar]

fantasypisces wrote...

I just played through a little bit of ME today: 80% of the time I was given three options, which mostly had a positive, negative, or neutral connotation to them. Occasionally I would be given five options: and the phrases were generally "Explain", "Can I help", "What's going on", "I'm sorry" etc. Very short.

I just now did a little play in Dragon Age. I had choices like:
 "You don't need to be hard on yourself, we all make mistakes. What is important is that you are here now."

Take that example and put it up against ME's "I'm sorry" response. Sometimes that "I'm sorry" could end up being just that, you apologize. Sometimes that "I'm Sorry" would wind up being, "I really do feel bad for you, but you need to get over it, we have a job to do". See where I'm going?

This summarizes why I think a lot of us are uncomfortable. One of the many but most important reasons DA is one of my favorite games of all time is specifically because of the flexibility and specificity of dialogue options. I came up with a character at the beginning of the game and was able to choose exactly how he responded in every situation. I never felt like the game had me on rails. It felt like you were really playing a character.

When I gave Mass Effect a shot about three conversations into the game it became readily apparent that I wasn't really in control of my character's responses when I picked some threatening dialogue option and my guy decided to punch someone out. It was sorta funny as it's not what I had in mind at all but it didn't make for a very engaging experience. He didn't feel like my character, he didn't feel like a character at all. Everything was in monotone and all the responses seemed to be given a hardass twist. Plus whenever I reloaded a game I made a point of trying different dialogue choices just to see, and honest to god I could not tell you the difference between what he said when I picked the "neutral" dialogue option and the "good" one most of the time having heard them within a minute of each other. It was just that one gave you goodie points and one didn't.

I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we see more though! I think the developers have heard enough that they know we're wary at this point hehe. I suspect it'll be a damn fine game either way.

[Sarkus]

Roleplaying games cover a lot of ground and there are always fans of certain approaches over others. Even if DA2 ends up adopting a different approach in some areas versus DA1, that doesn't mean it's not a role playing game or that it won't be a fun experience. Back when I used to play actual pen and paper RPGs there was a certain amount of fun in creating a character from scratch, making it my own. And yet I can also tell you that some of my fondest experiences from that time were when I was given a character the DM had already created and had to actually "role play" outside of my comfort zone.



So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't mind if Bioware wants to take a somewhat different approach this time and limit my options a bit in service of a story that will be tighter and potentially have more emotional impact. Playing as Geralt can be just as fun as playing as the character who's avatar is attached to this post.

[Maniac600]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Two things make me happy about this link
"The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme" and this
"You may be controlling a different character in Dragon Age II, but the choices your Grey Warden made in Origins are still imported from your save and reflected in the world.”
Thank you bioware! I will miss my Warden.....but I'm really happy I can still have the same combat experience on my pc and that some origin choices will carry over:) Thanks a bunch!
Also I have never played ME, can someone send me a link of what the conversation wheel looks like? I don't understand what it is.......

http://image.com.com...1_screen004.jpg

Basically, Responses in conversation are paraphrased to fit them on the wheel. The actual response is fleshed out cinematically. It's an alright system, it's just sometmes hard to predict the exact tone or context of the main character's response. Which is why the link I posted earlier is good new to me; it means less ambiguity and easier-to-understand intentions.

[Behindyounow]

I've been a fan since BG2, And I like these changes.

[MoMan313]

Anathemic wrote...

Darth Jayder wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

'Kay just asking here, what made Origins so great?
Immersion
Origins (no brainer)
Story
Character Interaction

Only one origin, strike 1, storyline seems close to ME2, very simaler (recruit the deadliest of allies right?) strike 2, Immersion, transitioning into no VO and dialogue list to full VO and dialogue tree (ME simaler) strike 3, Chracter interaction, there is none I'm watching 2 people talk, strike 4

A whole lot of people would be happier knowing that this will be the same a DA:O just a few little tweaks, smoother combat system, continue story/plot/romances, right now you are revamping the game we all know and love.

Yes but it's DA2 ,not DA:O remade.  What's the point of playing practically the same game?  It would be boring after a while.

Most of us expected DA2 be a direct continuation of the story of DA:O, it is not, I'm not saying DA2 has to be the same game, I'm saying that it could atleast directly in some way relate to DA:O, so far I see none but a whole new Dragon Age title that should be called Dragon Age: Rise of Hawke rather than DA2

T_T keep fighting for the  orginal continatoin! Im routing for you!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Behindyounow wrote...

I've been a fan since BG2, And I like these changes.

I've been a fan since BG, and I didn't like the changes in BG2.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sounds more like Alpha Protocol's system than ME's.

Which is a huge improvement. Would still prefer a list of options, but I can deal with this.

an313 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

Darth Jayder wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I
think it's a bit quick to judge, Lucy_Glitter, and that you'll
eventually find that there's plenty to recognize and love in DA2-- we're doing our best to make it a worthy successor-- but if there's no way for you to get past some of the changes, then so be it. Sorry you feel that way.

'Kay just asking here, what made Origins so great?
Immersion
Origins (no brainer)
Story
Character Interaction

Only
one origin, strike 1, storyline seems close to ME2, very simaler
(recruit the deadliest of allies right?) strike 2, Immersion,
transitioning into no VO and dialogue list to full VO and dialogue tree
(ME simaler) strike 3, Chracter interaction, there is none I'm watching
2 people talk, strike 4

A whole lot of people would be happier
knowing that this will be the same a DA:O just a few little tweaks,
smoother combat system, continue story/plot/romances, right now you are
revamping the game we all know and love.

Yes
but it's DA2 ,not DA:O remade.  What's the point of playing practically
the same game?  It would be boring after a while.

Most of us
expected DA2 be a direct continuation of the story of DA:O, it is not,
I'm not saying DA2 has to be the same game, I'm saying that it could
atleast directly in some way relate to DA:O, so far I see none but a
whole new Dragon Age title that should be called Dragon Age: Rise of
Hawke rather than DA2

Yeah, the Elder Scrolls series just goes to show that exploring different parts of the world is bad. Morrowind wasn't a real Elder Scrolls game, it was just Rise of the Nevarine.

I don't even know what to say to you people, other than "Christ, you are thick."

Modifié par allothernamesweretaken, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:32 .

[Koffeegirl]

Onyx Jaguar and Maniac600, thanks for the links. So with the DA2 wheel it will let you know if you are saying it sincerely or sarcastically. Do you have a limited time to pick your choice or can you take your time and think about your response before you choose one? Also can you talk to your characters at any time or only certain points in the game? Is there anything like Camp time from Orgins or the Awakening convo system? How do you get to form friendships/ and get to know your party members better?
Sorry for all the questions...just curious.

Modifié par Koffeegirl, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .

[allothernamesweretaken]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Onyx Jaguar and Maniac600, thanks for the links. So with the DA2 wheel it will let you know if you are saying it sincerely or sarcastically. Do you have a limited time to pick your choice or can you take your time and think about your response before you choose one? Also can you talk to your characters at any time or only certain points in the game? Is there anything like Camp time from Orgins or the Awakening convo system? How do you get to form friendships/ and get to know your party members better?
Sorry for all the questions...just curious.

Oh, I hope there's a time limit. I  liked the urgency of having to make the decision quick, like you would normally have to in real life.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maniac600 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maniac600 wrote...

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

Hm. I guess I'll consider the game a Third Person Action Adventure than an RPG. At the most, it's sounding like another game in the Dragon Age universe, a spinoff even, rather than a successor.

I don't tend to enjoy those as much, but they can still be good.

Still, I am disappointed, yes. I loved how DA:O worked and was hoping for more of the same, or at least similar. Maybe DA3

Perhaps, it's really just the way you look at it that matters.

Personally, I took well to this news. This new dialogue system should really add some depth to character interaction. Just imagine that with each symbol, there are also matching expressions on character's faces! (Happy, sad, smug, flirty, etc.) To me, it sounds like this is bringing this game closer to RPG territory.

I'm all for seeing the PC smile or look sad, but they could have feasibly done this while preserving the dialogue choices IMO. Jade Empire had a bit of this. Even if the PC was unvoiced, a smile/frown/neutral expression was better than a glazed face.

But we'll see. Maybe I'm just too used to the Good Old Days of fully written dialogue, no voices, and character sprites that didn't have expressions...much less faces.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:34 .

[hoysexyjew]

Hey Bioware! REMOVING options from games and "streamlining" them doesn't make them better, it makes them w o r s e, as in, not as good as games that give you lot's of options, got that?

Oh well, I fear that Bioware has already been indoctrinated by EA (evil assh*les)

Modifié par hoysexyjew, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:39 .

[Maniac600]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Onyx Jaguar and Maniac600, thanks for the links. So with the DA2 wheel it will let you know if you are saying it sincerely or sarcastically. Do you have a limited time to pick your choice or can you take your time and think about your response before you choose one? Also can you talk to your characters at any time or only certain points in the game? Is there anything like Camp time from Orgins or the Awakening convo system? How do you get to form friendships/ and get to know your party members better?
Sorry for all the questions...just curious.

ME 1/2 had a system in which there was no time limit for responses, so basically, just like DA: O, your character would sit there with a blank expression till you make a decision. It worked though, no complaints here. Didn't really ruin immersion for me.

In Me 1/2, your party camp is basically your ship, where you can search out and talk to specific members at anytime to chat/develop relationships. Although, in ME 1/2 there is no meter to measure approval with party members. You can have romances, you just have to be sure to make the right dialogue choices. Party members will open up more to dialogue choices that are well made, and may choose not to talk to you or may be a little less friendly to you if you choose the wrong one, but there's no real measurement of approval like in DA: O.

Although, DA 2 may have a 'hybrid' system which uses a little bit of both: the conversation wheel and approval ratings. For now, this tidbit of info is undisclosed.

It's alright, curiosity killed the cat, not the forum-poster.

[Maniac600]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maniac600 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Maniac600 wrote...

You may be in for some bad news then, if this article is correct. Take a look:


http://www.gamingeve..._age_ii_details

Apparently, it will have a similar dialogue system to ME2, which basically paraphrases the PC's response. But, it looks like they're taking it a step further by denoting what tone or emotions will be used with a symbol, so hopefully that will clarify what the main character is saying and how they mean it.

Hm. I guess I'll consider the game a Third Person Action Adventure than an RPG. At the most, it's sounding like another game in the Dragon Age universe, a spinoff even, rather than a successor.

I don't tend to enjoy those as much, but they can still be good.

Still, I am disappointed, yes. I loved how DA:O worked and was hoping for more of the same, or at least similar. Maybe DA3

Perhaps, it's really just the way you look at it that matters.

Personally, I took well to this news. This new dialogue system should really add some depth to character interaction. Just imagine that with each symbol, there are also matching expressions on character's faces! (Happy, sad, smug, flirty, etc.) To me, it sounds like this is bringing this game closer to RPG territory.

I'm all for seeing the PC smile or look sad, but they could have feasibly done this while preserving the dialogue choices IMO. Jade Empire had a bit of this. Even if the PC was unvoiced, a smile/frown/neutral expression was better than a glazed face.

But we'll see. Maybe I'm just too used to the Good Old Days of fully written dialogue, no voices, and character sprites that didn't have expressions...much less faces.

I understand where you're coming from; personally I think the KOTOR dialogue system worked just fine. No Voice Acting, several choices on a little list, and if all else fails, stick your saber in their gut.

But, I'm willing to give this new dialogue system a chance. I still have complaints, don't get me wrong, but the dialogue system seems like it will work just fine.

[Lucy Glitter]

The one thing I did like in Alpha Protocol was the dialogue system. Plus you could even walk around when the NPC was talking, I thought that was very well done.

[Koffeegirl]

Thanks, I'll have to keep an ear out for more information...but I understand a little better how the system works....when people were talking about a dialogue wheel as I never played ME2 before and I was picturing a wheel you spin and it was the luck of the draw what option you chose ...LOL I guess I was thinking wheel in terms of wheel of fortune LOL...well I'm actually kinda excited now to see how it will work..especially if we get to choose how our character says it....thanks for the help...I even might pick up ME2 (Blasphemy I know)

[Maniac600]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Thanks, I'll have to keep an ear out for more information...but I understand a little better how the system works....when people were talking about a dialogue wheel as I never played ME2 before and I was picturing a wheel you spin and it was the luck of the draw what option you chose ...LOL I guess I was thinking wheel in terms of wheel of fortune LOL...well I'm actually kinda excited now to see how it will work..especially if we get to choose how our character says it....thanks for the help...I even might pick up ME2 (Blasphemy I know)

No no, by all means, pick up ME 2. I thought it was an excellent game. I can't really understand where all the haters in this forum are coming from...perhaps a departure from "traditional RPG's," whatever those are nowadays.

Modifié par Maniac600, 10 juillet 2010 - 07:53 .